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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Apr 8, 2013 15:25:15 GMT 1
well she certainly got rid of most of out assets to foreign investors. Good Job Maggie. We are now literally a nation of shopkeepers shopworkers. Fixed that for you. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 15:34:52 GMT 1
Should add a little bit of spice to our performance this evening! link |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Apr 8, 2013 15:36:22 GMT 1
So, Margaret Thatcher is outlived by Nelson Mandela, the man she condemned as "a terrorist" while supporting the racist apartheid regime. Also kind of ironic that she gave one last gift to the Conservatives by knocking the benefit cuts out of the headlines.. You're not seriously suggesting the benefit system shouldn't be overhauled are you? The benefit culture in this country is way out of control. In my line of work, I've dealt with families on benefit that have a higher level of income than those in work. The tax gap (amount of tax not collected due to evasion and avoidance) is estimated at between £30bn (HMRC estimate) and £120bn (Tax Justice Network/PCS estimate). The entire benefits spend of the country is £159bn, of which £74bn is from pensions (taken from DWP figures quoted in Guardian article). Yes there are spongers, but the worst are at the top of the food chain, not the bottom. Maybe if people had viable careers to go into they wouldn't be at home on their arse all day. Also you do realise a sizable proportion of the housing benefit spend of £16.94bn is paid to slum landlords? They own council houses because Maggie sold loads of them off. |
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Post by artysid on Apr 8, 2013 15:41:38 GMT 1
Be interesting to see what happens if they asked for a minutes silence at football matches.
Judging by the posts on here she certainly divided opinions strongly
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2013 15:46:40 GMT 1
Why oh why would you have a minutes silence AT A FOOTBALL MATCH for any politician? Never mind one for arguably the most reviled politician in modern history?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 15:48:51 GMT 1
Wouldnt have fancied been an adult in the 1970s. I doff my hat to the Late Baroness Thatcher for sorting that mess out.
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mallyb
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Post by mallyb on Apr 8, 2013 15:57:33 GMT 1
You're not seriously suggesting the benefit system shouldn't be overhauled are you? The benefit culture in this country is way out of control. In my line of work, I've dealt with families on benefit that have a higher level of income than those in work. The tax gap (amount of tax not collected due to evasion and avoidance) is estimated at between £30bn (HMRC estimate) and £120bn (Tax Justice Network/PCS estimate). The entire benefits spend of the country is £159bn, of which £74bn is from pensions (taken from DWP figures quoted in Guardian article). Yes there are spongers, but the worst are at the top of the food chain, not the bottom. Maybe if people had viable careers to go into they wouldn't be at home on their arse all day. Also you do realise a sizable proportion of the housing benefit spend of £16.94bn is paid to slum landlords? They own council houses because Maggie sold loads of them off. Firstly, £30 billion and £120 billion, if the estimates are between those 2 it suggests the real answer is we haven't got a clue. Secondly, tax avoidance perfectly legal just need an accountant that understands the rules. You cant count tax in your estimate that people can legally avoid paying. Maybe more useful terminology, 'tax incentive' for taking a risk and investing some of your hard earned cash in Britain rather than elsewhere, contributing something to society like these viable jobs you talk about. Finally the selling of council houses was offered at a discount to tenants that met certain criteria not landlords. If the tenants decided to make a quick profit, or the council decided not to reinvest the money in building more council houses it's not Thatchers fault. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 15:58:58 GMT 1
I saw a newspaper picture from the political
campaign
A woman was kissing a child, who was obviously
in pain
She spills with compassion, as that young child's
face in her hands she grips
Can you imagine all that greed and avarice
coming down on that child's lips
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down
When England was the whore of the world
Margeret [sic] was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal
And now the cynical ones say that it all ends
the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just
squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and
dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between
justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful
discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up
for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you"
straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you
haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down
the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being
blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame
Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord
your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms
and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life
could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the
dirt down
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mallyb
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Post by mallyb on Apr 8, 2013 16:01:51 GMT 1
Why oh why would you have a minutes silence AT A FOOTBALL MATCH for any politician? Never mind one for arguably the most reviled politician in modern history? Surely you mean loved Ted? I look forward to the subject that we can agree on!! |
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Apr 8, 2013 16:08:00 GMT 1
Should add a little bit of spice to our performance this evening! linkWasn't thatcher snatching milk off kids about that time? |
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rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by rocky on Apr 8, 2013 16:12:48 GMT 1
I notice you didn't try adding something to my 'whereas now ............... ' bit! How about; Whereas now, her successors have turned Britain into a laughing stock, where the worlds' terrorist scum are protected by our absurd human rights laws and where immigation has spiralled totally out of control, irrespective of it's impact on public services / the fact that the country was 'full' years ago! (Plus many other similar things)   No, but I'd like to I take it you do work for the Mirror then |
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Apr 8, 2013 16:13:57 GMT 1
Why oh why would you have a minutes silence AT A FOOTBALL MATCH for any politician? Never mind one for arguably the most reviled politician in modern history? Surely you mean loved Ted? I look forward to the subject that we can agree on!! Ted and I often used to disagree, but he has come round to my way of thinking now I hated the woman. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 16:15:49 GMT 1
She was responsible for starting the demise of the NHS. Sorry but she never "turned this lady".
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Post by DeepSpace on Apr 8, 2013 16:16:15 GMT 1
The tax gap (amount of tax not collected due to evasion and avoidance) is estimated at between £30bn (HMRC estimate) and £120bn (Tax Justice Network/PCS estimate). The entire benefits spend of the country is £159bn, of which £74bn is from pensions (taken from DWP figures quoted in Guardian article). Yes there are spongers, but the worst are at the top of the food chain, not the bottom. Maybe if people had viable careers to go into they wouldn't be at home on their arse all day. Also you do realise a sizable proportion of the housing benefit spend of £16.94bn is paid to slum landlords? They own council houses because Maggie sold loads of them off. Firstly, £30 billion and £120 billion, if the estimates are between those 2 it suggests the real answer is we haven't got a clue. Secondly, tax avoidance perfectly legal just need an accountant that understands the rules. You cant count tax in your estimate that people can legally avoid paying. Maybe more useful terminology, 'tax incentive' for taking a risk and investing some of your hard earned cash in Britain rather than elsewhere, contributing something to society like these viable jobs you talk about. Finally the selling of council houses was offered at a discount to tenants that met certain criteria not landlords. If the tenants decided to make a quick profit, or the council decided not to reinvest the money in building more council houses it's not Thatchers fault. Just as you can distinguish between tax avoidance (playing the system) & evasion (breaking the law), you can do the same with with benefits. Anyone getting any benefit has either presented their circumstances & been awarded it, or lied. To apply different value judgements between the two is as best hypocritical, at worst prejudiced. Every penny screwed from the Government through creative accountancy or creative claiming takes money away from schools, hospitals, the Third World or whatever cause you think is important. The only difference is in the amounts lost & the rich do it to a significantly greater extent than the poor. More to the point, Thatcher created both the economic circumstances to allow the wealthy to cream the system, & destroyed the industrial heartland of Britain to the extent that created inter-generation welfare dependency across the country. On your last point, councils were prohibited from building houses with the money, & the stock they had remaining was largely privatised. That was her fault. |
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Post by BoltonTerrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:19:42 GMT 1
You don't work for the Daily Mail by any chance do you rocky? No, but I'd like to I take it you do work for the Mirror then No mate, I dont generally even read newspapers nowadays.. Too young to feel Thatchers policies personally but I saw how it affected my family(in particular my grandad who never quite recovered after the pits were closed and passed soon after). I was brought up to despise her and I guess its stuck over the years... |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2013 16:20:50 GMT 1
Why oh why would you have a minutes silence AT A FOOTBALL MATCH for any politician? Never mind one for arguably the most reviled politician in modern history? Surely you mean loved Ted? I look forward to the subject that we can agree on!! Maybe loved by your sort |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2013 16:22:01 GMT 1
Surely you mean loved Ted? I look forward to the subject that we can agree on!! Ted and I often used to disagree, but he has come round to my way of thinking now I hated the woman. miracles do happen Berty.. Me and Mally will get on just swimmingly given time ;-) |
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Post by cowlingoff on Apr 8, 2013 16:28:13 GMT 1
I owe her one thing
It forced my parents to emigrate to the US in 81
On your bike Maggie
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Post by rafterrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:28:16 GMT 1
Mel your knowledge of politics is like your knowledge of football nonexistent. Thatcher the so called great capitalist hadnt a clue how to run a capitalist economy. Today we have economic failure rewarded with huge bonsuses and those that caused this failure re-employed just because they went to public school or know a secret handshake. I dont think Mrs Thatcher though was anything like as bad as dumb and dumber, with Mrs Thatcher it was ideological with dumb and dumber its upper class hatred of anyone poor or disabled. Hope she RIP but a state funeral would be disgusting only our greatest leader Churchill was worthy of that honour. No more heroes anymore.
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Post by dreamboy3000 on Apr 8, 2013 16:31:47 GMT 1
No doubt they'll be dancing in the streets of Beunos Aires and Barnsley tonight. The usual chant of "We're having a party when Thatcher dies" will have to be changed to "We had a party, when Thatcher died". It's ironic we play Cardiff tomorrow another huge mining part of the UK. I can imagine the chants from all four sides tomorrow night in the Welsh capital sang in unison  She can join her friend Jimmy Saville now in hell. |
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Post by rafterrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:42:26 GMT 1
PS No more heroes doesnt refer to Mrs T, just no more heroes anymore.
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q8terrier
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by q8terrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:45:13 GMT 1
Should add a little bit of spice to our performance this evening! linkno corrie? surely some mistake. seems like alot longer since daniels left eastenders. |
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Post by Giggity on Apr 8, 2013 16:46:19 GMT 1
I wish we had someone of similar ilk in charge of the country now. Blair, Brown and Cameron were/are duplicitous jellyfish.
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Post by bristolterrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:51:04 GMT 1
She was responsible for starting the demise of the NHS. Sorry but she never "turned this lady". Having been very close to the NHS over the last 30+ years I can honestly say that no single government has grasped the issues and sorted them out. The NHS is a bottomless pit in which a trillion pounds could be dumped in the next 12 months. Would it improve the NHS?. Very unlikely imo, but it would still get spent. The NHS will never be improved until a whole raft of middle and senior arse covering managers are relieved of their duties and managers with drive, determination and vision are put in place to spend the money wisely and cut out the vast swathes of waste that are created everyday. No one takes responsibility any more and moral is at an all time low. We would rather spend £1b on a computer system that doesn't work instead of dragging the NHS into the 21st century by implementing some radical and progressive thinking. |
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Post by bristolterrier on Apr 8, 2013 16:52:13 GMT 1
well she certainly got rid of most of out assets to foreign investors. Good Job Maggie. We are now literally a nation of shopkeepers. We still had gold reserves though didn't we? |
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mallyb
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 926
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Post by mallyb on Apr 8, 2013 17:05:00 GMT 1
Firstly, £30 billion and £120 billion, if the estimates are between those 2 it suggests the real answer is we haven't got a clue. Secondly, tax avoidance perfectly legal just need an accountant that understands the rules. You cant count tax in your estimate that people can legally avoid paying. Maybe more useful terminology, 'tax incentive' for taking a risk and investing some of your hard earned cash in Britain rather than elsewhere, contributing something to society like these viable jobs you talk about. Finally the selling of council houses was offered at a discount to tenants that met certain criteria not landlords. If the tenants decided to make a quick profit, or the council decided not to reinvest the money in building more council houses it's not Thatchers fault. Just as you can distinguish between tax avoidance (playing the system) & evasion (breaking the law), you can do the same with with benefits. Anyone getting any benefit has either presented their circumstances & been awarded it, or lied. To apply different value judgements between the two is as best hypocritical, at worst prejudiced. Every penny screwed from the Government through creative accountancy or creative claiming takes money away from schools, hospitals, the Third World or whatever cause you think is important. The only difference is in the amounts lost & the rich do it to a significantly greater extent than the poor. More to the point, Thatcher created both the economic circumstances to allow the wealthy to cream the system, & destroyed the industrial heartland of Britain to the extent that created inter-generation welfare dependency across the country. On your last point, councils were prohibited from building houses with the money, & the stock they had remaining was largely privatised. That was her fault. As i said earlier, tax incentive is more appropriate and helpful. I would argue that the benefit system in it's current guise is completely different from the intention when it was set up. Also that of the 2 pots of money the government don't have (tax avoidance(incentive) and benefits) that one is vital to bring investment into the UK, that it creates jobs and opportunities where the other contributes nothing. I would argue that unions destroyed the industrial heartland in the 70's, just needed a leader that could stand up to them and not be bullied. For any inter-generation welfare dependents reading this I am terribly sorry nobody has bothered to tell you, the industrial heartland is destroyed, good news though, this is not a communist state so you are free to study anything you want at college or university or at home and can move freely around Europe to find employment! Its not that long since Kirklees were paying for coach trips to council tenants in other parts of the country to try and entice them into the half empty council estates that litter the Town. Apparently not all spare stock was 'privatised' and housing benefit allows people to chose where they live to an extent. If people don't like their choices then back to my earlier point, we have certain freedoms in this country that allow us to better our situation and stop complaining about the amount of charity we are being given. |
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Post by EatonRifles on Apr 8, 2013 17:11:45 GMT 1
I feel sorry for her family for her loss, she certainly was many things to politics, some good - Falklands, erosion of the ludicrously high taxes brought in by previous labour governments and her early confrontation with unions, however, she destroyed British industry, created the most despicable of me, me, me generations, destroyed the unions, the miners and set up a Britain reliant on the financial sector. She had too much power for too long a time, my youngest lad (21) text me 'Ding dong the witch is dead', sums up the latter part of her leadership of the country.
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Post by elindalo on Apr 8, 2013 17:18:50 GMT 1
I don't wish to appear disrespectful or insensitive so I shall allow another hour for the champagne to chill properly.
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Post by terrierpark on Apr 8, 2013 17:26:27 GMT 1
Thatcher put thousands upon thousands out of work and didnt care a jot. That IMO was the start of the benefit culture we see today . She introduced measures to fiddle the jobless figures and put people on sick pay and incapacity benefit quite willingly to make the unemployment figures look better.
She let people buy their own council houses and thousands did whilst the remaining council properties were handed out to teenage singe mums, leaving none at all for decent hard working people as they would never be a high enough prioity.
She closed the mines stating there was no market for coal and then imported coal from abroad.
She picked on school kids over their milk and even fish and chips had vat stuck on it. Anything that your taxes paid for was despised and discredited even when studies and reports showed the truth to be the contrary.
Oh and did i mention the council tax to further penalise the working class with large families?
She like all conservatives put wealth and profit of the businessman before anything else, just like now where any business man can put his prices up to meet his rising costs and maintain profit whereas the employed person faces pay freezes and harder working conditions and struggles to meet end meet, further strengthening the card of better off been on benefits.
I find it sickening that the state and my taxes should pay for her funeral when in life she despised anything the taxes paid for other than her corrupt police force reinforced by unaccountable specials.
As for the falklands at the time it was always referred to as a conflict, as soon as we reclaimed the islands it was suddenly a war we had won? Obviously keen to bury the myth that nuclear weapons prevent war you see, having spent a fortune on the polaris missile replacements.
We did very well to get them islands back BUT it showed how ill equipped we were technologically having to get missiles from the americans at the last minute. Our soldiers bravery won that war not Thatchers tactics .
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Post by H7 on Apr 8, 2013 17:27:03 GMT 1
Agree completely Daz. Love or loathe her, she at least made sure Britain was hated throughout the world, whereas now ....................... Can't have been that hated... We won the eurovision song contest in 1981, whereas now...............  |
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