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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 20:19:46 GMT 1
If Margaret Thatcher was still around as Prime Minister this country would be in a whole lot better state than it currently is! We wouldn't have the problems we have now with too much immigration, contributing massively to crime rates and to housing shortages. And I wouldn't be paying 50% tax on some of my earnings as well!That last sentence says it all!  |
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Post by OldRastrickian on Apr 8, 2013 20:21:03 GMT 1
Fooking hell....someone who actually liked her and her policies, nowt worse than a working class Tory!!! I didn't particularly like her.....but I did respect her. I'm not working class. I'm not a Tory. And I'm certainly not one of those small-minded socialists who appear to be over-represented on this thread. |
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Post by brickthespecial on Apr 8, 2013 20:29:08 GMT 1
Wrot in 'ell dearest
You created the I'm alright jack, look after No 1 culture, f'ck the rest & everyman for himself, ruined community spirit and neighbourhoods, the Falklands saved your arse you were so unpopular in '82. Wont be missed, Cheerio
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 20:33:55 GMT 1
I didn't particularly like her.....but I did respect her. I'm not working class. I'm not a Tory. And I'm certainly not one of those small-minded socialists who appear to be over-represented on this thread. I am working class, i worked from the day after i left school until the day i retired and am not ashamed to admit it, yes i was also a "small minded" paid up trade unionist, and proud of it! |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 8, 2013 20:38:42 GMT 1
I am working class, i worked from the day after i left school until the day i retired and am not ashamed to admit it, yes i was also a "small minded" paid up trade unionist, and proud of it! Get in there Cod mate.....at last we see eye to eye on summat!!! |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 8, 2013 20:41:10 GMT 1
If Margaret Thatcher was still around as Prime Minister this country would be in a whole lot better state than it currently is! We wouldn't have the problems we have now with too much immigration, contributing massively to crime rates and to housing shortages. And I wouldn't be paying 50% tax on some of my earnings as well!Its ok Epsom mate Cameron has reduced you liability to 45p in the pound from the 50p....its ok the Tories will look after their own.  |
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Post by DeepSpace on Apr 8, 2013 20:43:06 GMT 1
returning the Falklands wasn't an option as they'd never been argentinian. The only alternative to the war would have been to just roll over and let them have it. Correct.....which would have then encouraged others to invade British territory and take captive British people knowing they would get away with it That is all based on the premise that the UK Government was completely surprised by the invasion. We won't resolve it here, but my personal belief is that it suited their purposes to have the war, so they provoked it & ensured the Peruvian peace plan didn't see the light of day. Within 3 months the most unpopular Government since the war became the most popular & trounced Labour in a defence-dominated election within a few further months. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2013 20:44:34 GMT 1
Correct.....which would have then encouraged others to invade British territory and take captive British people knowing they would get away with it That is all based on the premise that the UK Government was completely surprised by the invasion. We won't resolve it here, but my personal belief is that it suited their purposes to have the war, so they provoked it & ensured the Peruvian peace plan didn't see the light of day. Within 3 months the most unpopular Government since the war became the most popular & trounced Labour in a defence-dominated election within a few further months. Hallelujah my friend. Nothing like a good war to cement a depised leader's position |
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Post by swam4mwg on Apr 8, 2013 20:47:37 GMT 1
I had mixed feelings about her. As mentioned earlier, she had more balls than anyone who has followed her but I found the destruction of our mining and steel industries despicable.
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Post by swam4mwg on Apr 8, 2013 20:47:53 GMT 1
I had mixed feelings about her. As mentioned earlier, she had more balls than anyone who has followed her but I found the destruction of our mining and steel industries despicable.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 20:51:22 GMT 1
If it were treasonous to oppose the Falkland conflict hang me now... In your world would it also have been treasonous to return other far flung colonial outposts in the face of force or threat? returning the Falklands wasn't an option as they'd never been argentinian. The only alternative to the war would have been to just roll over and let them have it. The British Government and Military didn't even have maps of the Falklands. That's how much they cared about or thought it was theirs. The Falkland Island Company actually owned the place why were our UK troops called over there (costing millions) to defend a sheep farm? Answer! Thatcher wanted it to become an issue! She was unpopular at home and creating a War against an ill-equipped invasion force to regain the respect she caved. My mate was parachuted in there with five other lads to make surveillance maps and was horrified by what he saw during his time there. Thank goodness he got out a sane man! He hates what Thatcher and her cronies did almost as much as I do!  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 21:02:55 GMT 1
I don't really care about her to be honest but I am glad people who hated her in life are not afraid to say they still hate her in death.
Hate it when you have to pretend to like someone cos they died
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 21:04:14 GMT 1
If Margaret Thatcher was still around as Prime Minister this country would be in a whole lot better state than it currently is! We wouldn't have the problems we have now with too much immigration, contributing massively to crime rates and to housing shortages. And I wouldn't be paying 50% tax on some of my earnings as well! Epsom, you may as well advertise the fact you earn £150,000 plus. Normally I'd call you an a++++ole for shouting that out, but this board ain't for personal abuse:-). Too much information old chap. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Apr 8, 2013 21:06:28 GMT 1
If Margaret Thatcher was still around as Prime Minister this country would be in a whole lot better state than it currently is! We wouldn't have the problems we have now with too much immigration, contributing massively to crime rates and to housing shortages. And I wouldn't be paying 50% tax on some of my earnings as well!Its ok Epsom mate Cameron has reduced you liability to 45p in the pound from the 50p....its ok the Tories will look after their own. Too right! I pay my NI and my tax. I've nothing to be ashamed of. Not sure Tony Blair and Gordon Brown can quite say that and mean it! |
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thewrongboy
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Post by thewrongboy on Apr 8, 2013 21:09:05 GMT 1
Its ok Epsom mate Cameron has reduced you liability to 45p in the pound from the 50p....its ok the Tories will look after their own. Too right! I pay my NI and my tax. I've nothing to be ashamed of. Not sure Tony Blair and Gordon Brown can quite say that and mean it! Why ever not? |
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Post by seanyd1brit on Apr 8, 2013 21:13:58 GMT 1
returning the Falklands wasn't an option as they'd never been argentinian. The only alternative to the war would have been to just roll over and let them have it. The British Government and Military didn't even have maps of the Falklands. That's how much they cared about or thought it was theirs. The Falkland Island Company actually owned the place why were our UK troops called over there (costing millions) to defend a sheep farm? Answer! Thatcher wanted it to become an issue! She was unpopular at home and creating a War against an ill-equipped invasion force to regain the respect she caved. My mate was parachuted in there with five other lads to make surveillance maps and was horrified by what he saw during his time there. Thank goodness he got out a sane man! He hates what Thatcher and her cronies did almost as much as I do! What did he see that horrified him? (serious question, I was only a nipper at the time) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 21:15:00 GMT 1
I don't really care about her to be honest but I am glad people who hated her in life are not afraid to say they still hate her in death. Hate it when you have to pretend to like someone cos they died As i said earlier i won't grieve, or dance on her grave, i'm just indifferent now, i hated what she did and stood for. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 21:24:59 GMT 1
The British Government and Military didn't even have maps of the Falklands. That's how much they cared about or thought it was theirs. The Falkland Island Company actually owned the place why were our UK troops called over there (costing millions) to defend a sheep farm? Answer! Thatcher wanted it to become an issue! She was unpopular at home and creating a War against an ill-equipped invasion force to regain the respect she caved. My mate was parachuted in there with five other lads to make surveillance maps and was horrified by what he saw during his time there. Thank goodness he got out a sane man! He hates what Thatcher and her cronies did almost as much as I do! What did he see that horrified him? (serious question, I was only a nipper at the time) A 'steam hammer to crush a walnut' he called it! Sinking of the ship 'General Belgrano' while it was heading back to Argentina summed it up for him. Over 300 young naval lads lost their lives needlessly on Thatchers orders to sink it! Unforgivable!  |
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Post by wildbillthetownfan on Apr 8, 2013 21:36:25 GMT 1
returning the Falklands wasn't an option as they'd never been argentinian. The only alternative to the war would have been to just roll over and let them have it. The British Government and Military didn't even have maps of the Falklands. That's how much they cared about or thought it was theirs. The Falkland Island Company actually owned the place why were our UK troops called over there (costing millions) to defend a sheep farm? Answer! Thatcher wanted it to become an issue! She was unpopular at home and creating a War against an ill-equipped invasion force to regain the respect she caved. My mate was parachuted in there with five other lads to make surveillance maps and was horrified by what he saw during his time there. Thank goodness he got out a sane man! He hates what Thatcher and her cronies did almost as much as I do! The Americans warned Thatcher about the Falklands but in her arrogance she totally ignored them and the rest is history. Some people made a hell of a lot of money while Thatcher was in charge, while other's lost their jobs, but that is the Tory way, look after your own and ---- the rest. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 22:06:32 GMT 1
returning the Falklands wasn't an option as they'd never been argentinian. The only alternative to the war would have been to just roll over and let them have it. The British Government and Military didn't even have maps of the Falklands. That's how much they cared about or thought it was theirs. The Falkland Island Company actually owned the place why were our UK troops called over there (costing millions) to defend a sheep farm? Answer! Thatcher wanted it to become an issue! She was unpopular at home and creating a War against an ill-equipped invasion force to regain the respect she caved. My mate was parachuted in there with five other lads to make surveillance maps and was horrified by what he saw during his time there. Thank goodness he got out a sane man! He hates what Thatcher and her cronies did almost as much as I do! I'm guessing the islanders might have been a tad more grateful that their sovereign state regained control after they'd been invaded! |
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Post by johnny_b on Apr 8, 2013 22:14:48 GMT 1
If Margaret Thatcher was still around as Prime Minister this country would be in a whole lot better state than it currently is! We wouldn't have the problems we have now with too much immigration, contributing massively to crime rates and to housing shortages. And I wouldn't be paying 50% tax on some of my earnings as well!Its ok Epsom mate Cameron has reduced you liability to 45p in the pound from the 50p....its ok the Tories will look after their own. art, I maybe wrong on this but I don't think I am. The top rate of tax, Gordon Brown set it, was 40% throughout most of 'New Labour' years in power and was only moved upto 50% shortly before the election. This was a typical move from an outgoing Labour government, knowing full well that the Conservatives would lower it again thus giving the opposition to come out with the classic counter punch of "tax cuts for millionaires". 50% taxation produces lower income for the chancellor, more people will find ways to avoid it, Brown knew that, he had the figures,that's why he kept it at 40%. There is a considerable difference between millionaires and people earning a taxable million pounds a year. But its whatever you want to hear, like "bedroom tax", much more dramatic. Remember Tessa Jowell proposing "empty nesters" sell their houses and downsize and let larger families have their houses? Labour said it was "fairness". |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 8, 2013 22:56:10 GMT 1
You're not seriously suggesting the benefit system shouldn't be overhauled are you? The benefit culture in this country is way out of control. In my line of work, I've dealt with families on benefit that have a higher level of income than those in work. Of course benefit fraud should be clamped down upon but there are a lot of people who work damn hard who receive benefits too you know? Regular average working families. Benefit fraud is responsible for around 1.2billion quid. Tax avoidance on the other hand is responsible for around £25billion... No one who is working should receive benefits in principle, this is the problem. It has spiralled to the extent that NINETY percent of households receive some form of cashback! Welfare system. Not fit for purpose. I have never had a single penny in my life...and i never want to. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Apr 8, 2013 23:08:25 GMT 1
As for Thatcher herself. They were different and difficult times. I hated her personality more than her policies. She was a robot, a working class woman who pretended she had plums in her mouth.
The Poll tax? Fair.
Falklands? A fortunate misfortune that led her to a second term.
She rightly took on the IRA and the barking Unions.
Right to buy, there are plenty up and down the country who grew fat on the purchases and subsequent sales.
Some good, some bad. She was just a figurehead for a movement.
In a heartbeat i would choose her over Blair, Brown or Millipede.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 23:13:26 GMT 1
Of course benefit fraud should be clamped down upon but there are a lot of people who work damn hard who receive benefits too you know? Regular average working families. Benefit fraud is responsible for around 1.2billion quid. Tax avoidance on the other hand is responsible for around £25billion... No one who is working should receive benefits in principle, this is the problem. It has spiralled to the extent that NINETY percent of households receive some form of cashback! Welfare system. Not fit for purpose. I have never had a single penny in my life...and i never want to. Considering your death defying lifestyle more luck than management methinks. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 8, 2013 23:13:47 GMT 1
Of course benefit fraud should be clamped down upon but there are a lot of people who work damn hard who receive benefits too you know? Regular average working families. Benefit fraud is responsible for around 1.2billion quid. Tax avoidance on the other hand is responsible for around £25billion... No one who is working should receive benefits in principle, this is the problem. It has spiralled to the extent that NINETY percent of households receive some form of cashback!Welfare system. Not fit for purpose. I have never had a single penny in my life...and i never want to. Give over Oti lad, if you've got kids then maybe but not 90%, that's an over exaggeration. If your in low paid work and have a couple of kids, does it pay to spend all your money on Child care costs? Childcare costs put people off working. If the government came up with a credible jobs creation programme then maybe there wouldn't be such an outcry. Any Welfare reform has to have jobs available to make it work and have any credibility. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2013 23:19:36 GMT 1
No one who is working should receive benefits in principle, this is the problem. It has spiralled to the extent that NINETY percent of households receive some form of cashback!Welfare system. Not fit for purpose. I have never had a single penny in my life...and i never want to. Give over Oti lad, if you've got kids then maybe but not 90%, that's an over exaggeration. If your in low paid work and have a couple of kids, does it pay to spend all your money on Child care costs? Childcare costs put people off working. If the government came up with a credible jobs creation programme then maybe there wouldn't be such an outcry. Any Welfare reform has to have jobs available to make it work and have any credibility. Before he gets it in, he doesn't have kids so you're wasting your time. |
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Post by thrice on Apr 8, 2013 23:23:32 GMT 1
Great leaders lead & affect change.
Like her or loathe her she acted on her conviction and will be remembered for that.
You have to set any meaningful analysis of her actions & policies against the context of the politics of the time.
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Post by BoltonTerrier on Apr 8, 2013 23:26:19 GMT 1
Give over Oti lad, if you've got kids then maybe but not 90%, that's an over exaggeration. If your in low paid work and have a couple of kids, does it pay to spend all your money on Child care costs? Childcare costs put people off working. If the government came up with a credible jobs creation programme then maybe there wouldn't be such an outcry. Any Welfare reform has to have jobs available to make it work and have any credibility. Before he gets it in, he doesn't have kids so you're wasting your time. And he never will. at least not any that he knows of. BDUM TISH. He'll be fucked if the CSA ever catch this ageing lothario.. |
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cj01
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Post by cj01 on Apr 8, 2013 23:27:02 GMT 1
Of course benefit fraud should be clamped down upon but there are a lot of people who work damn hard who receive benefits too you know? Regular average working families. Benefit fraud is responsible for around 1.2billion quid. Tax avoidance on the other hand is responsible for around £25billion... No one who is working should receive benefits in principle, this is the problem. It has spiralled to the extent that NINETY percent of households receive some form of cashback! Welfare system. Not fit for purpose. I have never had a single penny in my life...and i never want to. Well good for you Otium, and I say that in all seriousness. You are lucky to, presumably, always have been able to find a way to earn a living and have the health to do that. Sadly there are those in every society who are not able to do that. They may have worked hard down a mine but then had their job taken from them by Thatcher and their community decimated by lack of alternative work. They may have suffered from a disability and been unable to find appropriate work, or suffered a serious illness that would prevent them from earning a living however much they want to. That's what the Welfare system is for and we should always remember that and those of us lucky enough to not need to fall back on the Welfare State should thank our lucky stars that is the case. So, I think you're wrong to say the Welfare system is not fit for purpose. I do accept that aspects of it need radical overhaul. It cannot be right that it pays people to be out of work and on benefits; it cannot be right that it's too easy to get some form of sickness benefit when you are not really too sick to work (partially thanks to Thatcher, as quoted earlier, who moved lots of unemployed onto sickness benefit so as to reduce the numbers on unemployment benefit); it cannot be right that immigrants who have never paid a penny into the system are able to waltz in and immediately qualify for more benefits than some (lifelong) indigenous workers receive; and so on. Nevertheless it does save a lot of out of work people (through no fault of their own), or sick people, from starving. It does support old people, who like me, have paid their taxes and N.I etc all their working lives, by providing some financial support in their later years. (Some like me who have as well as paying their taxes have also paid into a pension fund and so have a "private" pension to help support them.) So the Welfare system does do a lot of good, and I would venture to suggest the worthy claimants outnumber the unworthy ones. Just because there are arguable a large minority of unworthy ones doesn't mean the system is unfit for purpose, just that it needs adjusting. As for your comment that no working person should receive benefits as a matter of principle - well it's thanks to the ethos propounded by Thatcher that too many employers feel able to pay such low wages (sometimes wangled even below the legal minimum wage)that people need to have support from the state. There is a significant number of people working hard at worthwhile jobs who do not get paid a living wage for their efforts. If only they had unions to help them - oh yes - Thatcher emasculated them as well! |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 8, 2013 23:29:46 GMT 1
I feel sorry for her daughter carol, basically a good woman though a little kookie... I can't say the same for that corrupt arrogant oaf of a brother she has though... Hope he rots in hell like his mother
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