Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 13:50:33 GMT 1
Yes mate, exactly the same democracy that gave us Cameron and his chinless chums. UTT A YES/NO vote is hardly the same as a general election. For a start, in a Union vote, you only get a choice of agreeing or not with left wing Labour funding socialists. There is no right wing alternative. Someone clearly doesn't know how a trade union works. |
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Macduff
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Post by Macduff on Jul 13, 2014 13:58:12 GMT 1
Well if you are in the union and don't want to strike then just vote "No". It's pretty simple really, it's always the majority of those who can be arsed to vote, not what the views of the entire electorate might be.
UTT
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 13, 2014 14:20:17 GMT 1
Back to point how do you fund it all these pay rises - the public sector is broke. If it was a business it would be liquidated due to its debt
There is no way to raise more money (personal tax is too high and saddling business with more tax will see them either pass the extra cost on to end customers through higher prices, lay off workers to save cost or go off shore)
We live in a globalised market if you want a thriving private sector (and without a private sector there is NO public sector) you need to give them the best chance to compete with China, Germany etc. it's dangerous to tax too far
There is IMO no scope to tax more
Besides about a third if UK GDP is tax - there is plenty of money but the public sector needs a rebalance
Id start with making 20% of all MPs redundant to fund their pay raise!
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Post by Automatic(EPBS) on Jul 13, 2014 14:21:47 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 15:15:54 GMT 1
Someone clearly doesn't know how a trade union works. Well enlighten us then..... |
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sheesh
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Post by sheesh on Jul 13, 2014 17:16:06 GMT 1
Someone clearly doesn't know how a trade union works. Well enlighten us then..... I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 13, 2014 17:39:50 GMT 1
Well enlighten us then..... I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. What about those who failed to receive a ballot paper? Although i'm seen on here as "left wing ted" I thought the one day strike was a complete waste of time Im not overly happy with the actions of the unions. But the w*** OP title rubbed people up totally the wrong way. Total disgrace |
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Fantoolong
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Post by Fantoolong on Jul 13, 2014 17:54:47 GMT 1
I sometimes wonder why people bash both unions and public sector workers. No unions, no holiday pay, health and safety out the window, bosses riding roughshod over workers rights, everyone on zero hours contracts to milk as much profit as possible from workers...I could go on . And as for the public sector, you gonna empty your own bins, arrange care for your gran on your own 'cos you are loaded? You get mentally ill ( happens to 1 in 4 at some point in their lives)- and no its not just the NHS you need then you need local authority mental health social workers, who do a very unenviable task, the number of services we rely upon as a society are such that private business need public services to function , its a symbiotic relationship. Local authority and other publicly funded bodies are being grounded down by successive govt's who don't give a damn about ordinary people who use their services.
And as for union votes, just what exactly was Camerons majority?
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sheesh
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Post by sheesh on Jul 13, 2014 18:23:09 GMT 1
I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. What about those who failed to receive a ballot paper? Although i'm seen on here as "left wing ted" I thought the one day strike was a complete waste of time Im not overly happy with the actions of the unions. But the w*** OP title rubbed people up totally the wrong way. Total disgrace AIUI many of the elections are conducted by the electoral reform society - certainly the last one by the GMB. If ballot papers are going missing I'm sure they would be interested to say the least. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 13, 2014 20:06:04 GMT 1
I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. What about those who failed to receive a ballot paper? Although i'm seen on here as "left wing ted" I thought the one day strike was a complete waste of time Im not overly happy with the actions of the unions. But the w*** OP title rubbed people up totally the wrong way. Total disgrace Can we call you 'Red Ted' from now on? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 21:32:16 GMT 1
Well enlighten us then..... I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. But a simple Yes/No, do you agree with the leftie Labour Party sponsors, is not the same as being able to vote FOR people of all political slants. There is no such thing as a right wing union. |
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sheesh
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Post by sheesh on Jul 13, 2014 21:40:49 GMT 1
I there is a vote for a strike a secret ballot takes place, where all eligible (affected) members get to vote. A bit like a general election, or council election, or vote for Police commissionaire.... If the majority of those who vote choose to strike then a strike is called, if the majority of those who vote choose not to strike, then there is no strike. As with any election those who choose not to vote (for whatever reason) have the decision made for them by those who did. The same as with an MP, or councillor, or... I have little sympathy for someone who chooses not to vote, then whines about the result in any election. But a simple Yes/No, do you agree with the leftie Labour Party sponsors, is not the same as being able to vote FOR people of all political slants. There is no such thing as a right wing union. The CBI? Institute of Directors? |
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midge
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[M0:5]
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Post by midge on Jul 13, 2014 22:15:06 GMT 1
I sometimes wonder why people bash both unions and public sector workers. No unions, no holiday pay, health and safety out the window, bosses riding roughshod over workers rights, everyone on zero hours contracts to milk as much profit as possible from workers...I could go on . And as for the public sector, you gonna empty your own bins, arrange care for your gran on your own 'cos you are loaded? You get mentally ill ( happens to 1 in 4 at some point in their lives)- and no its not just the NHS you need then you need local authority mental health social workers, who do a very unenviable task, the number of services we rely upon as a society are such that private business need public services to function , its a symbiotic relationship. Local authority and other publicly funded bodies are being grounded down by successive govt's who don't give a damn about ordinary people who use their services. And as for union votes, just what exactly was Camerons majority? Politicians are not my favourite people,but have successive governments of either persuasion who apparently don't give a damn REALLY taken a conscious decision to purposefully ground down Local Authorities etc or have they taken decisions to cut cost and promote efficiencies in these areas for the common good!? In terms of Cameron, not sure what his majority was but it will be a lot more if the sweaty socks decide to go their own way!!! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 23:26:54 GMT 1
But a simple Yes/No, do you agree with the leftie Labour Party sponsors, is not the same as being able to vote FOR people of all political slants. There is no such thing as a right wing union. The CBI? Institute of Directors? I think he has an agenda and doesn't quite grasp politics. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 23:54:13 GMT 1
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. In this way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 0:24:29 GMT 1
Crazy but still cheaper. And that's the be all and end all these days. Not quite my friend. The cheaper coal from Poland that persuaded thatcher that we could manage without our own pits turned out to have far less calorific value ie, it was of much lower quality. So you had to burn much more... The problem in this country is not too much union power, it's not enough. It always takes 2 hands to clap and we are cursed in this country with an aggressive, elitist govt hell-bent on further entrenching inequality between the 5% and the rest of us. If you had a union in your workplace which could fight injustice and the rampant insatiable greed we see so much of in this country at the top, then join it. It's still a basic right. Look at that bankrupt economic backwater Germany, where companies of a certain size require workforce representation on the board. We associate the 70's with strikes but why did we lose our car industry? Bad management. A more balanced approach in this country - a rebalancing of labour relations would do us all a world of good. As it is, power is concentrated in the hands of a few etonian class shits who absolutely don't care what happens to this country and its people as long as they are raking it in. Which brings us back to the point about there being not enough union power. We wouldn't need to strike if there was! It's not as if we want to! Idiots like the OP simply take their world view obediently from the sun newspaper. You seriously want our world to be shaped according to loathsome turds such as Murdoch? Coulson? The rest of them? Unelected, unaccountable hypocritical, lying bullies who have the brass neck to label union leaders 'barons'. You don't like what's happening to your pension, fight it. Join a union. It's not all about striking, you know. Our union, the FBU has been discussing, arguing and fighting legal cases for 2-3 years before we called a strike ballot. The govt is just_not_listening. And we need to fight the bastards.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2014 0:25:46 GMT 1
Not sure what your point is Mel. I don't begrudge train / tube staff their wages. Try answering the point in the post you just quoted rather than playing the man and seeking more division. Or... you could join Cameron's government! My point is that the train drivers are ridiculously well paid thanks to a very strong union. As for the quote I posted, is anybody that doesn't believe in supporting trade unions a "fucking idiot". It's hardly an effective way to engage people into the debate is it? Who said anything about debate? I was ranting, not reasoning. No point trying to reason with the brainwashed, it's like trying convert some religious nut. I'm afraid it's going to come to the stage where they realise that they are doing something like pimping out their sister to pay grandmother's medical bills, before some folk realised that they picked the wrong side. |
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jul 15, 2014 17:02:10 GMT 1
Unions only call a strike as result of a democratic vote. Yeah, because the majority of workers wanted to strike didn't they? That'll be why only 27% of NUT members bothered to vote, 20% of Unison, 20% of Unite union, 23% of GMB bothered to vote.... Take Unison as an example, 58% of the 20% voted YES to strike, making around 12% of Unison members who actually voted yes to a strike...Democracy at it's finest eh? Jesus H Christ, you haven't half spouted a lot of shit on this thread pal but to bring this load of Tory shite to the discussion really does take the biscuit. What percentage of the electorate actually voted "Call Me Dave" into power? He's PM based on the same principals of democracy that both him and you are criticising the strike votes on. If you want strikes to be voted on by over 50% of union members then that should also apply to parties trying to form a government. Hypocritical two faced Tory bastards really do make my blood boil.  |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jul 15, 2014 17:07:59 GMT 1
Yeah, because the majority of workers wanted to strike didn't they? That'll be why only 27% of NUT members bothered to vote, 20% of Unison, 20% of Unite union, 23% of GMB bothered to vote.... Take Unison as an example, 58% of the 20% voted YES to strike, making around 12% of Unison members who actually voted yes to a strike...Democracy at it's finest eh? Jesus H Christ, you haven't half spouted a lot of shit on this thread pal but to bring this load of Tory shite to the discussion really does take the biscuit. What percentage of the electorate actually voted "Call Me Dave" into power? He's PM based on the same principals of democracy that both him and you are criticising the strike votes on. If you want strikes to be voted on by over 50% of union members then that should also apply to parties trying to form a government. Hypocritical two faced Tory bastards really do make my blood boil. I think you should get off that fence, Jungle! You really will get splinters  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 17:09:02 GMT 1
I believe it's about 20% who voted for the conservative party in 2010 yet they're running the show... pot kettle black eh.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jul 15, 2014 17:20:31 GMT 1
I think you should get off that fence, Jungle! You really will get splinters This quote from Aneurin Bevan is just as relevant today as the day it was made 66 years ago, substitute Lord Woolton for Cameron, Clegg, Osborne or even pricks like marcusd. "That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were." |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 17:32:45 GMT 1
I think you should get off that fence, Jungle! You really will get splinters This quote from Aneurin Bevan is just as relevant today as the day it was made 66 years ago, substitute Lord Woolton for Cameron, Clegg, Osborne or even pricks like marcusd. "That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation. Now the Tories are pouring out money in propaganda of all sorts and are hoping by this organised sustained mass suggestion to eradicate from our minds all memory of what we went through. But, I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying now. Do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. He is a very good salesman. If you are selling shoddy stuff you have to be a good salesman. But I warn you they have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse than they were." My favourite quote. I wield it out about 4 times a year and it never loses its relevance. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jul 15, 2014 17:34:52 GMT 1
I believe it's about 20% who voted for the conservative party in 2010 yet they're running the show... pot kettle black eh. Unfortunately if the Scots decide to go their separate ways then the rest of us will need to get used to a Conservative Government. |
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Post by wasp on Jul 15, 2014 17:40:12 GMT 1
I believe it's about 20% who voted for the conservative party in 2010 yet they're running the show... pot kettle black eh. Unfortunately if the Scots decide to go their separate ways then the rest of us will need to get used to a Conservative Government. We should get a vote on the jocks getting booted out! |
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jul 15, 2014 17:46:01 GMT 1
Unfortunately if the Scots decide to go their separate ways then the rest of us will need to get used to a Conservative Government. We should get a vote on the jocks getting booted out! I hope the Scots do vote for independence. Once they are fully independent then we should push for devolution for the north or full independence. The south can keep their twatty Tory governments. |
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Post by wasp on Jul 15, 2014 17:47:36 GMT 1
We should get a vote on the jocks getting booted out! I hope the Scots do vote for independence. Once they are fully independent then we should push for devolution for the north or full independence. The south can keep their twatty Tory governments. We will still end up giving the jocks foreign aid should they get independence |
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jul 15, 2014 17:50:05 GMT 1
We might end up getting it as the oil rich Scots bail out the impoverished north of England.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 21:28:45 GMT 1
The CBI? Institute of Directors? Do these right wing unions go on strike regularly? I've never noticed... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2014 21:32:35 GMT 1
e]Jesus H Christ, you haven't half spouted a lot of shit on this thread pal but to bring this load of Tory shite to the discussion really does take the biscuit. What percentage of the electorate actually voted "Call Me Dave" into power? He's PM based on the same principals of democracy that both him and you are criticising the strike votes on. If you want strikes to be voted on by over 50% of union members then that should also apply to parties trying to form a government. Hypocritical two faced Tory bastards really do make my blood boil. The union vote is yes or no for a left wing view. In the general election, people of all political views get a voice, not just the left wing socialist pocket liners. |
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Post by Polish Hippy on Jul 15, 2014 22:16:30 GMT 1
The union vote is for a view of its members, and a lot of those members don't just vote for left wing parties. Maybe you should try interacting with some of those people rather than swallowing the shit the Daily Hate Mail publishes every day.
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