Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:30:44 GMT 1
the problem is that (rightly or wrongly) the public has little sympathy for workers who retire early in most cases, crying about pay and conditions, when your average joe looking for a job (if he's unemployed) will be looking at minimum wage in most cases and have little or no job security or a ring fenced pension.
Firefighters - Tip my hat off to em. Fookin dangerous job. Pay Increase deserved, but i would ban em from doin jobs on the side.
Teachers. Can only speak for my lads teacher at parents day (his last one a few years ago) but excuses excuses... for inept teaching imo.
Nurses. Deserve massive pay increase. No Messin.
NHS office staff? Yeah their jobs must be really hard.....
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alex
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:14]
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Post by alex on Jul 10, 2014 11:30:52 GMT 1
Fire men on strike again.... when do they ever not strike? Teachers moaning... If I don't like my terms and conditions I will get another job, I suggest you moaning shits either do the same or be glad you are working. Tell you what Alex why don't you pop yourself down to our picket today at Huddersfield fire station and air your views taking into account both sides of the story rather than hiding behind an avatar on here calling us twats... Thought not Ermm, the last time, I walked past the fire station in Huddersfield, some time last year, I did exactly that. I told the people on the picket that they should be glad that they have a job. I was on my way to a meeting at JC+ to put togeather a redundancy training package for 200 people who had lost their jobs at a paper mill in Huddersfield. Threats of violence are the last desperate outpost of a man who has nothing worthwhile to say. I do not fear you, my friend, I worry for you. |
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Jul 10, 2014 11:30:55 GMT 1
Why is working to 68 OK for bricklayers, dustmen, parking attendants etc but "too hard" for fecking teachers? Is that the same "too hard" for working a full day or having 6 weeks off in summer? This is what I mean by a race to the bottom. So you would rather everyone was made to work to 68, rather than everyone retire younger? I'm not saying the country could afford it at the moment mind you. |
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Post by Tez on Jul 10, 2014 11:32:52 GMT 1
Fire men on strike again.... when do they ever not strike? Teachers moaning... If I don't like my terms and conditions I will get another job, I suggest you moaning shits either do the same or be glad you are working. Tell you what Alex why don't you pop yourself down to our picket today at Huddersfield fire station and air your views taking into account both sides of the story rather than hiding behind an avatar on here calling us twats... Thought not Do you know Andy Blackburn by any chance? That's my old man! |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jul 10, 2014 11:32:58 GMT 1
[quote author=" jasonhand" source="/post/1557064/thread" timestamp="1404987661Ok then lets not have a fire service. So when people have a road accident on the motorway and need cutting out of their burning vehicle lets all get our swiss army knives out and do it ourselves. Or lets call Captain Birdseye out to put out a warehouse fire in Barnsley because it will be a walk in the park for him. Too many people in this country bothered about what other people get rather than actually concentrating on their own lives And how is this relevant? Nobody is saying we shouldn't have a fire service or that Tesco delivery drivers should do it. What most people against the Fire Brigade Union's demands are saying, is that they need to get real and accept that people are living longer and remaining healthier to a later age. As a country we need to adapt to this and nobody, Union protected or not, should be immune from these changes. The current system is becoming more and more unaffordable and unrealistic. [/quote] Spot on @marcusd! |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jul 10, 2014 11:40:29 GMT 1
Why is working to 68 OK for bricklayers, dustmen, parking attendants etc but "too hard" for fecking teachers? Is that the same "too hard" for working a full day or having 6 weeks off in summer? This is what I mean by a race to the bottom. So you would rather everyone was made to work to 68, rather than everyone retire younger? I'm not saying the country could afford it at the moment mind you. Sorry, I really don't understand the point you are making. I agree 100% - we SHOULD be aspiring to better working conditions, better pay, better retirement etc. I am certainly NOT suggesting a race to the bottom though - all I am stating is that the current circumstances indicate that the general tide is going against this and there are too many folk who are quite happy to "pull the ladder up behind them". It is not ME I am concerned about - I am one of the fortunate ones - but I do have a concern about who is going to fund the great and growing public sector debt. In tough times in private sector, we work harder or smarter or go to the wall - the public sector just hold out their hand and expect the rest of us (and our children/grandchildren into the future) to pick up the cost. Berty - it cannot go on like this |
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jasonhand
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by jasonhand on Jul 10, 2014 11:40:34 GMT 1
Public sector work = Safer but less rewards What less rewards like only having to work 195 days out of 365, like teachers do? Or the other lesser rewards such as far better pensions, 6 months full paid sick leave a year that the public sector get? Mrs works as an Higher Level Teaching Assistant in a special needs school and this is the kind of comment which is born from sheer ignorance. Right bear in mind she is not a teacher and the money she earns is a pittance compared to people who work in the private sector. She has lessons to plan on an evening, at the weekend and also do school reports. Remember she isn’t even a teacher. On her holidays she has to do preparation as well. I will also point out she works with children with serious special needs some which can be quite violent. In your job do you risk being bitten, scratched, head butted? You also mention the sick leave. This is something else which is being taken away from them. Its now at the point that if you are sick for a day then you don’t get paid for it. Yes, I’ve had this situation for years so I simply go into work sick. But she can’t do that because she goes into work with any kind of stomach bug then this can be passed to children who can have serious medical consequences if they catch any kind of bug. |
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Post by mightyterrier on Jul 10, 2014 11:41:02 GMT 1
Fire men on strike again.... when do they ever not strike? Teachers moaning... If I don't like my terms and conditions I will get another job, I suggest you moaning shits either do the same or be glad you are working. How is this football related - dick shit |
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jasonhand
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,971
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Post by jasonhand on Jul 10, 2014 11:45:27 GMT 1
Ok then lets not have a fire service. So when people have a road accident on the motorway and need cutting out of their burning vehicle lets all get our swiss army knives out and do it ourselves. Or lets call Captain Birdseye out to put out a warehouse fire in Barnsley because it will be a walk in the park for him. Too many people in this country bothered about what other people get rather than actually concentrating on their own lives And how is this relevant? Nobody is saying we shouldn't have a fire service or that Tesco delivery drivers should do it. What most people against the Fire Brigade Union's demands are saying, is that they need to get real and accept that people are living longer and remaining healthier to a later age. As a country we need to adapt to this and nobody, Union protected or not, should be immune from these changes. The current system is becoming more and more unaffordable and unrealistic. I mentioned this because you make irrelevant comparisons. Tragically people are killed in their workplace from time to time. I had a work colleague who this happened to a number of years ago and it was the most horrible day I've ever had during my working lifetime. But firefighters risk are prepared to risk their lives every day. And the OP who called them tw*ts is out of order. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:46:42 GMT 1
Tell you what Alex why don't you pop yourself down to our picket today at Huddersfield fire station and air your views taking into account both sides of the story rather than hiding behind an avatar on here calling us twats... Thought not Ermm, the last time, I walked past the fire station in Huddersfield, some time last year, I did exactly that. I told the people on the picket that they should be glad that they have a job. I was on my way to a meeting at JC+ to put togeather a redundancy training package for 200 people who had lost their jobs at a paper mill in Huddersfield. Threats of violence are the last desperate outpost of a man who has nothing worthwhile to say. I do not fear you, my friend, I worry for you. If you think what I said counts as violence then I suggest you read again. There is only one person on here who has stooped so low as to name calling and that is you. |
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Post by barnsleydaz on Jul 10, 2014 11:49:19 GMT 1
Hmmm Government froze pay for the last 4 years, with another 4 years pay freeze being suggested by the Tories. I wonder how many private sectors workers wouldn't be cheesed off with 8 years of pay freezes whilst the cost of living increases year on year.There is a deficit to pay for but it seems that the easy targets are the public sector workers. And now talk of banning strike action if certain parameters aren't met by the voting, which strangely is much more than was needed for any of the Tory ministers to got elected at the last election. But hey easy targets and all that. Not many teaching or firefighting jobs are available in the private sector. I seriously hope you don't find yourself in a burning building one day and reliant on these said T**ts to save your life  Wife work's in the private sector and she's had 4 years of no pay increase. In fact 2 year's ago the company had to cut the wage bill across the board by 10%. She just got on with it. Having worked in the public sector for 23 years, I never realised how lucky I was. At last a public sector worker in touch of reality. Good for you mate. It really does make a change. Who was fighting for my final salary pension scheme? who was there fighting to prevent our pension pots from being pillaged? and who was there fighting for us when we were told, no pay rise again this year folks. In the private sector you have to make yourself competitive to stay at the top and move around to get the best salaries available to you. It's a dog eat dog world. unless you work in the public sector that is. Not a dig at you mate, I appreciate your comments. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 10, 2014 11:49:38 GMT 1
If you make what was a legally binding financial agreement with someone else or an institution then you are bound by that.
You can go and discuss with them at a later date to re construct the agreement to add more time to repay or larger payments to reduce the interest etc.. You cannot just simply pay what you like, when you like or change the rules as you please because your situation may have changed. If you stop paying they sue you and you become a bad debtor, if you change the rules this is also noted on your credit rating report and may change the terms offered to you for the rest of your life.
The government allows banks and financial institutions to fuck up/cheat and be wastefull and criminally negligent and its then the ordinary bloke who has to pay because they just tear up legally binding agreements made with thousands of workers and tell us all to 'like it or fucking lump it'...
Government waste is a different argument and the billions spent in Afghanistan should really see quite a few people in jail as in about 6 months it will return to exactly the same country is was before we went there, again. The strike by public workers is a sideshow to what the real problems are in this country. We are not in this together, we never have been and until the selection process for mps changes and we can vote real people into positions of power, it wont change. Career politicians 'pretending' to fall out with each other is the biggest con this country has ever seen.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:50:57 GMT 1
at no point may your life depend on wether a 60 year old brickie is both quick enough and strong enough or trained well enough Thats what they said in India whilst they were trying to build their way into the 1st World. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:51:02 GMT 1
Public sector work = Safer but less rewards What less rewards like only having to work 195 days out of 365, like teachers do? Or the other lesser rewards such as far better pensions, 6 months full paid sick leave a year that the public sector get? I would call most of the above safer, I meant financially rewarding in the short term. |
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Jul 10, 2014 11:52:10 GMT 1
This is what I mean by a race to the bottom. So you would rather everyone was made to work to 68, rather than everyone retire younger? I'm not saying the country could afford it at the moment mind you. the public sector just hold out their hand and expect the rest of us (and our children/grandchildren into the future) to pick up the cost. Berty - it cannot go on like this No we don't. I had a re-grade six months ago, but declined the wage rise it should have brought. Hopefully it will have helped save a low paid workers job somewhere. The majority of people striking today would forego a wage rise this year, despite getting just 1% over the last five years, so the lower paid workers, the ones who are having to be given food from the food bank in our building, can go to the shops just like the rest of us. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:54:33 GMT 1
Not read all the posts, just enough to clearly see the op has a degree in politics and sounds about as educated in the matter as a fucking idiot.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:55:09 GMT 1
I mentioned this because you make irrelevant comparisons. Tragically people are killed in their workplace from time to time. I had a work colleague who this happened to a number of years ago and it was the most horrible day I've ever had during my working lifetime. But firefighters risk are prepared to risk their lives every day. And the OP who called them tw*ts is out of order. As has already been pointed out, being a fire fighter is less dangerous than working in fishing, construction, commercial driving, oil rigging and many more professions. We don't hero  HGV drivers when they go out on their daily more dangerous occupation do we....? The unions have done a great job of duping the public into the sympathising with their unrealistic demands, by boosting this "hero" image of hard done by workers being asked to work nearly as long as an average person. Every time there's a strike, Facebook gets littered with Union backed propaganda about how we'd all die instantly, if fire fighters don't get to keep their ridiculous pension terms. I'm not fooled by it, many are... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:55:41 GMT 1
Fire fighters aren't after more pay, they are fighting against the increase in pension age because they don't think, at 60, they will be able to carry folk out of burning buildings down ladders. Nothing to do with earnings. I work as a csi down south. No pay rise for several years on top of a change in allowances equal to a 10% pay cut in cash terms before inflation taken into account. Unhappy - yes but wouldn't dream of leaving as the job is pretty unique. What grates is the govt proposing a change in strike ballot laws when my PCC was elected to run the service with SIX PERCENT of the voters he serves voting for him. MPs, MEPs etc are often elect with c.40% vote share of a c.35% turnout. I make that roughly a 14% mandate. Hardly convincing yet the govt think they can force the unions to achieve a massively higher majority to strike. Bloody hypocrites.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 11:57:25 GMT 1
There is currently a war going on between the rich (really rich) and the rest of us yet we take all this propaganda and argue amongst ourselves.
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Post by Sio on Jul 10, 2014 11:58:11 GMT 1
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jasonhand
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by jasonhand on Jul 10, 2014 12:00:01 GMT 1
Will just mention one thing, Mrs isn't striking today.
As I said I've worked in the private industry all my life and its been very difficult and continues to be. For me it doesn't mean everyone else has to be in the same boat
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:00:42 GMT 1
Fire fighters aren't after more pay, they are fighting against the increase in pension age because they don't think, at 60, they will be able to carry folk out of burning buildings down ladders. Nothing to do with earnings. I work as a csi down south. No pay rise for several years on top of a change in allowances equal to a 10% pay cut in cash terms before inflation taken into account. Unhappy - yes but wouldn't dream of leaving as the job is pretty unique. What grates is the govt proposing a change in strike ballot laws when my PCC was elected to run the service with SIX PERCENT of the voters he serves voting for him. MPs, MEPs etc are often elect with c.40% vote share of a c.35% turnout. I make that roughly a 14% mandate. Hardly convincing yet the govt think they can force the unions to achieve a massively higher majority to strike. Bloody hypocrites. Well said. People don't bat an eyelid when ministers give themselves an 11% pay rise and take home a full pension after just 7 years, it's uproar however when firefighters dare to fight for what they signed up for. I'm working 10 years longer, taking less out and paying more for the privilege. That is not fair so why shouldn't I fight for what I signed a contract for |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:00:46 GMT 1
Fire fighters aren't after more pay, they are fighting against the increase in pension age because they don't think, at 60, they will be able to carry folk out of burning buildings down ladders. Nothing to do with earnings. But it is about earnings, people are living longer and staying healthier than when these pension schemes were though up. An average fire fighter can spend more years in retirement than actually working, compared to an average private sector worker who will spend over 3 times longer in work than retirement. These growing periods of retirement aren't funded out of thin air. If you, the fire fighters and their unions can't understand this, we're knackered. |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Jul 10, 2014 12:02:12 GMT 1
Hmmm Government froze pay for the last 4 years, with another 4 years pay freeze being suggested by the Tories. I wonder how many private sectors workers wouldn't be cheesed off with 8 years of pay freezes whilst the cost of living increases year on year. There is a deficit to pay for but it seems that the easy targets are the public sector workers. And now talk of banning strike action if certain parameters aren't met by the voting, which strangely is much more than was needed for any of the Tory ministers to got elected at the last election. But hey easy targets and all that. Not many teaching or firefighting jobs are available in the private sector. I seriously hope you don't find yourself in a burning building one day and reliant on these said T**ts to save your life Stats on Sky News shows public sector pay rose by 17 per cent over the last 7 years, whilst private sector pay rose by 13 per cent. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:02:39 GMT 1
[Mrs works as an Higher Level Teaching Assistant in a special needs school and this is the kind of comment which is born from sheer ignorance. Right bear in mind she is not a teacher and the money she earns is a pittance compared to people who work in the private sector. She has lessons to plan on an evening, at the weekend and also do school reports. Remember she isn’t even a teacher. On her holidays she has to do preparation as well. I will also point out she works with children with serious special needs some which can be quite violent. In your job do you risk being bitten, scratched, head butted? You also mention the sick leave. This is something else which is being taken away from them. Its now at the point that if you are sick for a day then you don’t get paid for it. Yes, I’ve had this situation for years so I simply go into work sick. But she can’t do that because she goes into work with any kind of stomach bug then this can be passed to children who can have serious medical consequences if they catch any kind of bug. Sounds like she needs to change jobs if the conditions are that bad. In the private sector, she'll get around 4 to 5 weeks off a year. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:03:59 GMT 1
Hmmm Government froze pay for the last 4 years, with another 4 years pay freeze being suggested by the Tories. I wonder how many private sectors workers wouldn't be cheesed off with 8 years of pay freezes whilst the cost of living increases year on year. There is a deficit to pay for but it seems that the easy targets are the public sector workers. And now talk of banning strike action if certain parameters aren't met by the voting, which strangely is much more than was needed for any of the Tory ministers to got elected at the last election. But hey easy targets and all that. Not many teaching or firefighting jobs are available in the private sector. I seriously hope you don't find yourself in a burning building one day and reliant on these said T**ts to save your life Stats on Sky News shows public sector pay rose by 17 per cent over the last 7 years, whilst private sector pay rose by 13 per cent. Because Sky news wouldn't work the stats to fit their centre right balance! |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Jul 10, 2014 12:09:17 GMT 1
Hmmm Government froze pay for the last 4 years, with another 4 years pay freeze being suggested by the Tories. I wonder how many private sectors workers wouldn't be cheesed off with 8 years of pay freezes whilst the cost of living increases year on year. There is a deficit to pay for but it seems that the easy targets are the public sector workers. And now talk of banning strike action if certain parameters aren't met by the voting, which strangely is much more than was needed for any of the Tory ministers to got elected at the last election. But hey easy targets and all that. Not many teaching or firefighting jobs are available in the private sector. I seriously hope you don't find yourself in a burning building one day and reliant on these said T**ts to save your life Stats on Sky News shows public sector pay rose by 17 per cent over the last 7 years, whilst private sector pay rose by 13 per cent. Why 7 years? Where's the stats for the last five? Timescales for stats are crucial. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2014 12:09:23 GMT 1
People are generally paid what they're worth. If you've got a niche skill then you will be rewarded You'd think that'd be the case... |
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jasonhand
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,971
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Post by jasonhand on Jul 10, 2014 12:11:22 GMT 1
[Mrs works as an Higher Level Teaching Assistant in a special needs school and this is the kind of comment which is born from sheer ignorance. Right bear in mind she is not a teacher and the money she earns is a pittance compared to people who work in the private sector. She has lessons to plan on an evening, at the weekend and also do school reports. Remember she isn’t even a teacher. On her holidays she has to do preparation as well. I will also point out she works with children with serious special needs some which can be quite violent. In your job do you risk being bitten, scratched, head butted? You also mention the sick leave. This is something else which is being taken away from them. Its now at the point that if you are sick for a day then you don’t get paid for it. Yes, I’ve had this situation for years so I simply go into work sick. But she can’t do that because she goes into work with any kind of stomach bug then this can be passed to children who can have serious medical consequences if they catch any kind of bug. Sounds like she needs to change jobs if the conditions are that bad. In the private sector, she'll get around 4 to 5 weeks off a year. And do what? She has spent years getting qualications in her profession. And why she should have to change careers? With that logic all the best people who work in our education system should do the same. |
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rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by rocky on Jul 10, 2014 12:11:35 GMT 1
As someone who works in financial services, I think public sector workers need a reality check especially in relation to the overall package that they enjoy.
Whilst the benefit levels in public sector pensions have been reduced recently (& not retrospectively), they are still far, far superior to personal pensions. Then there's the more than generous, free sick pay scheme they get - usually 6 months full pay & 6 months half pay.
I accept that they are generally low paid, but their benefits package definitely makes up for that. If they were to buy their current pension and sick pay package in the private marketplace like the rest of us, they would be paying out a small fortune each month.
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HGV drivers when they go out on their daily more dangerous occupation do we....? The unions have done a great job of duping the public into the sympathising with their unrealistic demands, by boosting this "hero" image of hard done by workers being asked to work nearly as long as an average person.
