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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 7, 2014 8:04:21 GMT 1
Chris Powell believes that any appointments made by clubs should be on merit, he is eager to see more black coaches given the chance to thrive in management link |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 8:18:07 GMT 1
I wonder if he kept a straight face when he said "Paul Ince and Chris Kiwomya have proved they can manage"
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Post by catterickterrier on Sept 7, 2014 8:19:43 GMT 1
I hope this doesn't become a recurring theme
If you're good enough you will get appointed, just like he has
All this 'quota' balls does my head in
It's not racism, if you get a job based on your ability then that's a level playing field
The day, though I think we are already there, where people get jobs based on their colour, sexuality or whatever ahead of someone because we need more of that particular group to look like we are being fair and politically correct, will be a sad day IMO
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 7, 2014 8:28:09 GMT 1
I wonder if he kept a straight face when he said "Paul Ince and Chris Kiwomya have proved they can manage"  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 8:49:24 GMT 1
I hope this doesn't become a recurring theme If you're good enough you will get appointed, just like he has All this 'quota' balls does my head in It's not racism, if you get a job based on your ability then that's a level playing field The day, though I think we are already there, where people get jobs based on their colour, sexuality or whatever ahead of someone because we need more of that particular group to look like we are being fair and politically correct, will be a sad day IMO About 7 years ago I went down to my local fire station to apply for the fire service as they were recruiting. I filled out all the forms and handed them in to the Old boy behind the desk, I asked him if they were recruiting a lot of numbers and what my chances were. He looked up and smiled at me and said 'ill be honest with you mate there's 2 problems with you, 1. your white and 2. your male. So virtually no chance at all'. I never got a response from them, absolutely nothing. I bumped into a lad who I used to play cricket with who worked at the fire station and was close to retirement and I asked him about it, he just shook his head and said a few expletives.
Chris Powell has got the job because he's a bloody good manager and a good man, not because he's black.
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 7, 2014 8:51:32 GMT 1
Was thinking the other day how few black goalkeepers there are in England.
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:05:52 GMT 1
I don't think there is any real discrimination in management appointment. I think football is so financially driven that greedy chairman could be the most racist, biggoted fools you have ever met and will still employ whichever manager it takes to make them some money. I imagine racism was forced out of clubs by non-white players who clubs could not afford to discriminate against because they were talented enough to be very valuable to the club, once a club has non-white personel in one department I can't see them discriminating against personel in another department.
Perhaps I am wrong but I certainly hope we - or any other club - would not turn down a candidate for any post for any reason other than them not being right for the role.
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Post by nicovaesen on Sept 7, 2014 9:12:10 GMT 1
Was thinking the other day how few black goalkeepers there are in England. Because black men can't jump |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 9:16:49 GMT 1
the problem is not skin colour,it's the same managers keep getting sacked then hired again
Every time we are in for a new guy I hear the same names banded about.
Best job on the world,you can do shit get sacked and paid off then walk into a new job a week later.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 9:20:01 GMT 1
Was thinking the other day how few black goalkeepers there are in England. Because black men can't jump I've seen plenty of black strikers jumping to win headers and score goals, especially against Town!  |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Sept 7, 2014 9:26:38 GMT 1
I get as wound up as anyone about reverse discrimination, whether in the work place or petty examples like some women expecting change other than where they lose out (i.e. still expecting blokes to pay, etc)
However, this is purely a quota at the interview stage, so isn't as extreme as I'm sure will be made out on here.
I would be against there being a set level of black managers, but I don't think this is that unreasonable.
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:28:51 GMT 1
Was thinking the other day how few black goalkeepers there are in England. Because black men can't jump |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 9:29:37 GMT 1
I hope if Powell gets sacked, the media don't start going down the racial discrimination road. I remember David Mellor questioning Geoffrey Richmond and Bradford when they sacked Chris Kamara. I'm no fan of Bradford but I understood their frustration with Mellor after he comments he made, the dickhead.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Sept 7, 2014 9:32:58 GMT 1
I get as wound up as anyone about reverse discrimination, whether in the work place or petty examples like some women expecting change other than where they lose out (i.e. still expecting blokes to pay, etc) However, this is purely a quota at the interview stage, so isn't as extreme as I'm sure will be made out on here. I would be against there being a set level of black managers, but I don't think this is that unreasonable. NB- but should be scrapped when the industry can't be accused of being an old boys club. |
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Post by upthetown on Sept 7, 2014 9:34:57 GMT 1
From his quotes in that article I'm not convinced he is actually calling for it to be introduced.
It's a shame that skin colour even comes up. It doesn't even occur to me until someone points out "Powell is the only black manager in the football league". If anything Ince, for example, has has more chances than his ability suggests he deserves. Did well at Macclesfield. Failed at Blackburn, Notts County, Blsckpool.
Re Blackburn he did seem to be sacked quite quickly. But no quicker than they sacked Henning Berg. I'm not sure if there are many Norweigen managers in the football league either.
Certainly if I was in Dean's position the only criteria I'd have are: is this person qualified? Are they the best of the candidates? Do they seem like they'll work hard and have a positive influence on the club? Race, gender, nationality would not come in to it.
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:37:55 GMT 1
I get as wound up as anyone about reverse discrimination, whether in the work place or petty examples like some women expecting change other than where they lose out (i.e. still expecting blokes to pay, etc) However, this is purely a quota at the interview stage, so isn't as extreme as I'm sure will be made out on here. I would be against there being a set level of black managers, but I don't think this is that unreasonable. NB- but should be scrapped when the industry can't be accused of being an old boys club. Clubs should, if queried, be able to provide their reason for not interviewing any applicant. I don't think quotas are the way to go. Like in any industry, you can select who you want from the applicants but if one of them accuses you of discrimination you need to be able to point to x, y and z reasons why the candidate appointed is better suited for the role. |
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Post by Ginger Ogre on Sept 7, 2014 9:39:54 GMT 1
Just seen on SSN that Powel is on the Sunday Supplement show in Sky Sports this morning talking about lack of black managers in football.
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:40:16 GMT 1
From his quotes in that article I'm not convinced he is actually calling for it to be introduced. It's a shame that skin colour even comes up. It doesn't even occur to me until someone points out "Powell is the only black manager in the football league". If anything Ince, for example, has has more chances than his ability suggests he deserves. Did well at Macclesfield. Failed at Blackburn, Notts County, Blsckpool. Re Blackburn he did seem to be sacked quite quickly. But no quicker than they sacked Henning Berg. I'm not sure if there are many Norweigen managers in the football league either. Certainly if I was in Dean's position the only criteria I'd have are: is this person qualified? Are they the best of the candidates? Do they seem like they'll work hard and have a positive influence on the club? Race, gender, nationality would not come in to it.  |
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realmadkid
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Post by realmadkid on Sept 7, 2014 9:42:17 GMT 1
Agreed upthetown69. I think the big problem with the Rooney rule although I'm sure it is well-intentioned is that its all very well to say that it gives black people a chance of an interview but overlooks the question of whether that person (black, white, green, blue or red) actually deserves to be on the interview list on merit. And does that then mean because of time constraints a more deserving person of different race does not reach the interview stage.
All too contrived for me I'm afraid but if I was a black person I am sure I would be in favour.
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:45:23 GMT 1
Agreed upthetown69. I think the big problem with the Rooney rule although I'm sure it is well-intentioned is that its all very well to say that it gives black people a chance of an interview but overlooks the question of whether that person (black, white, green, blue or red) actually deserves to be on the interview list on merit. And does that then mean because of time constraints a more deserving person of different race does not reach the interview stage. All too contrived for me I'm afraid but if I was a black person I am sure I would be in favour. I am not sure I would. If I get a job interview i want it to be because my application was good, not because they haven't interviewed enough handsome, well hung individuals.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 9:45:26 GMT 1
Three things.
1) Town. Being mentioned in a national article on this subject. Just like some folk said we would be whereas some folk were incredulous at the mere mention of such an occurremce!
2) I dont think Powell does actually call for the Rooney Rule to be implemented, although I'm not sure the article is poorly worded in the middle.
3) Fulfilling quotas at interview stage WOULD be a bad thing. In the regular world, as I'm sure in football, lots of work is carried out siftimg CVs from the 100s (1000s?) that apply to get shortlists to interview. Any candidates forced onto the interview list because of their colour rather than because theyd been selected, are a waste of time, because their CVs obviously fail the standard expected.
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realmadkid
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Post by realmadkid on Sept 7, 2014 9:47:33 GMT 1
Agreed upthetown69. I think the big problem with the Rooney rule although I'm sure it is well-intentioned is that its all very well to say that it gives black people a chance of an interview but overlooks the question of whether that person (black, white, green, blue or red) actually deserves to be on the interview list on merit. And does that then mean because of time constraints a more deserving person of different race does not reach the interview stage. All too contrived for me I'm afraid but if I was a black person I am sure I would be in favour. I am not sure I would. If I get a job interview i want it to be because my application was good, not because they haven't interviewed enough handsome, well hung individuals. A poor attempt at irony from me mate  |
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Post by benhtafc on Sept 7, 2014 9:48:33 GMT 1
I am not sure I would. If I get a job interview i want it to be because my application was good, not because they haven't interviewed enough handsome, well hung individuals. A poor attempt at irony from me mate No poorer than my attempt to suggest I have a large appendage.  |
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Post by upthetown on Sept 7, 2014 9:58:31 GMT 1
From his quotes in that article I'm not convinced he is actually calling for it to be introduced. It's a shame that skin colour even comes up. It doesn't even occur to me until someone points out "Powell is the only black manager in the football league". If anything Ince, for example, has has more chances than his ability suggests he deserves. Did well at Macclesfield. Failed at Blackburn, Notts County, Blsckpool. Re Blackburn he did seem to be sacked quite quickly. But no quicker than they sacked Henning Berg. I'm not sure if there are many Norweigen managers in the football league either. Certainly if I was in Dean's position the only criteria I'd have are: is this person qualified? Are they the best of the candidates? Do they seem like they'll work hard and have a positive influence on the club? Race, gender, nationality would not come in to it. Ha! Knew I should have checked! Every new job should interview a Norweigen though. |
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Post by swollentoe on Sept 7, 2014 10:00:42 GMT 1
How can you tell a black person from a white person on a CV ?
That alone should stop picking people on race
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terrier5
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Post by terrier5 on Sept 7, 2014 10:05:12 GMT 1
There's certainly plenty of stereotyping goes on on the part of fans... I still remember the claim on this board that Leon Knight was a "similar kind of striker to Delroy Facey" in terms of physicality. Facey is a strapping 6 foot lad whilst Knight must be about 5' 5".
It is undoubtedly odd that in a field where black people have broken through to become highly successful (rare indeed is the starting XI without a black face nowadays), so few make it to management level.
Do chairmen worry that players won't respect a black boss as instinctively? I do wonder sometimes.
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Post by upthetown on Sept 7, 2014 10:06:28 GMT 1
Agreed upthetown69. I think the big problem with the Rooney rule although I'm sure it is well-intentioned is that its all very well to say that it gives black people a chance of an interview but overlooks the question of whether that person (black, white, green, blue or red) actually deserves to be on the interview list on merit. And does that then mean because of time constraints a more deserving person of different race does not reach the interview stage. All too contrived for me I'm afraid but if I was a black person I am sure I would be in favour. If anything it could build resentment too. If I'm an employer I see Ince and I think poor manager, big time Charlie, arrogant. I don't think "poor black manager". Having to interview him would be a waste of time. If you do have to interview a black person for the job, then why not also a woman, a Polish person, a child etc. As you can probably tell I'm massively against racism,and other discriminating, but disagree with positive discrimination too. |
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Post by upthetown on Sept 7, 2014 10:09:12 GMT 1
How can you tell a black person from a white person on a CV ? That alone should stop picking people on race From colour of paper used? Or if it mentions the word 'guv'nor' in the cv? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 10:25:43 GMT 1
Powell discussion coming up after this break on sky sports 1
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Post by durhamterrier on Sept 7, 2014 10:33:55 GMT 1
Couldn't give a flying monkeys if our next manager was black, white, yellow, green or blue. All I want is passion, a successful team ... and a bit of character wouldn't go amiss.
I agree there isnt a lot of black managers around, but lets be honest, apart from the obvious few what other black managers are there to interview?
Can only apply the rule if there are a quantity of black managers to interview
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