Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 12:05:28 GMT 1
Id imagine Dean Hoyles attitude would be that the club ARE doing something about it- they're establishing themselves as a championship club for the first time in a long while and gradually moving up the division year after year. People don't seem to want to give them any credit for that. What you seem to be wanting is for Dh to finance that improvement on the pitch AND also at the same time cover the costs of the apathetic support this area has for a championship club. It should be a 2 way street, but it all seems very 1 way to me. Theyve already given fans the chance to watch every game for £16.50 per game through season cards AND for those that can't make that many fixtures, the chance to watch the 10 most attractive ones for about £25 a game if they want to cherry pick. Theyve made our individual pay on the door prices one of the cheapest in the division. So i think its unfair to say they aren't trying to do something about it. If it isn't enough ( and ok it seems it isn't) then it once again boils down to DH dipping in his pockets even more than he already is- isn't that unfair if anything is? At what point do you point the finger at the people of Hudds and surrounding areas and say 'YOU don't deserve a championship club!' I have great sympathy for anyone who can't afford to watch his team, but its a wider football problem that can only be addressed in a wider football way. Why on earth do you (and others not prepared to understand why attendance's are dwindling) always jump on the "you're expecting Dean to put more in to cover your own lack of support" line? It's rubbish. I don't expect or want Dean to put more in, in fact I'd feel a lot better about the club if Dean didn't have to put ANYTHING in. What I want is for the club to take the radical action to protect the income they have and start to look towards potential growth... Rather than go, "I/we threw a load of cash at getting into and staying in this league, now come along and pay for it to help us stay there" Nobody asked for, or demands a Championship club (other in fact, than Dean!), and as an "average fan" i'm sure like others, the league that Town play in is largely irrelevant and it would seem to be incredibly naive to build a business plan seemingly on assumed increased attendance's...given how predictable Towns support is, it's not as though we're like Preston (a similar club with similar fan base and similar distant memory of success) swinging from 5000 fans one week to 12000 the next. This is it. I don't see anybody asking Dean to prop up ticket prices, but there are lots of good suggestions and ideas on this thread aimed at maintaining the nett ticket revenue, whilst increasing the attendances. This should be the main aim of the club when they sit down to discuss next season pricing. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 12:21:48 GMT 1
Think that's a straight forward and fair way of pricing it. However, I also think it would have virtually no impact on attendances. As you say, when we've had one off offers, there has been no real increase on how many come. If people were put off going purely by the price, then surely they'd be straight down when it was only a tenner? That's not the case and I think it's just total guess work to say floaters would come if it were priced somewhere between £20/25 on the gate for every game. We proved with the £100 offer and Bradford have done with their offer that big increases in ST sales can be achieved. Obviously we couldn't afford to go that low again, but somewhere around £250 seems manageable and would be an attractive offer. Either way, it'd have to be a substantial reduction, as I can't see anyone being too enticed by, say, a 10% reduction. As DH hinted at, we could push this from Jan as well. Once people stop getting a ST, it becomes easier to stop going altogether, we need to get them back into the habit. Don't forget, we're in a downward trend at the moment, so stopping that trend would be seen as a positive. It'd be interesting to see some figures as to what the average adult pay on the day price was last season including all the offers/vouchers etc. My guess is it wouldn't be too far from the £20-£25 range. You're probably right on the average adult price. Surely we're aiming to reverse the trend, rather than flat line it. We need to give floaters an incentive to commit to coming to more games - unfortunately we can't guarantee a winning team, thanks to the work the likes of you have put in we're able to offer a much more enjoyable match day experience in certain areas for those that want it, which I'm sure has helped. By getting fans to buy a season ticket, when they would ordinarily view it as not value for money if they were missing ten games, would make them far more likely to turn up for Tuesday night games, or a Saturday game in Jan that they wouldn't have fancied freezing their bollocks off at, regardless of whether they viewed the pay on the day fee as fair. There would be a cost to reducing STs and that wouldn't be made up by increased numbers or extra programme sales etc, which would have would have the effect of reducing the playing budget/not increasing it with all the extra FL money, but the alternative seems to be losing 500 fans a season. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Oct 3, 2015 14:52:03 GMT 1
Id imagine Dean Hoyles attitude would be that the club ARE doing something about it- they're establishing themselves as a championship club for the first time in a long while and gradually moving up the division year after year. People don't seem to want to give them any credit for that. What you seem to be wanting is for Dh to finance that improvement on the pitch AND also at the same time cover the costs of the apathetic support this area has for a championship club. It should be a 2 way street, but it all seems very 1 way to me. Theyve already given fans the chance to watch every game for £16.50 per game through season cards AND for those that can't make that many fixtures, the chance to watch the 10 most attractive ones for about £25 a game if they want to cherry pick. Theyve made our individual pay on the door prices one of the cheapest in the division. So i think its unfair to say they aren't trying to do something about it. If it isn't enough ( and ok it seems it isn't) then it once again boils down to DH dipping in his pockets even more than he already is- isn't that unfair if anything is? At what point do you point the finger at the people of Hudds and surrounding areas and say 'YOU don't deserve a championship club!' I have great sympathy for anyone who can't afford to watch his team, but its a wider football problem that can only be addressed in a wider football way. Why on earth do you (and others not prepared to understand why attendance's are dwindling) always jump on the "you're expecting Dean to put more in to cover your own lack of support" line?
It's rubbish. I don't expect or want Dean to put more in, in fact I'd feel a lot better about the club if Dean didn't have to put ANYTHING in. What I want is for the club to take the radical action to protect the income they have and start to look towards potential growth... Rather than go, "I/we threw a load of cash at getting into and staying in this league, now come along and pay for it to help us stay there" Nobody asked for, or demands a Championship club (other in fact, than Dean!), and as an "average fan" i'm sure like others, the league that Town play in is largely irrelevant and it would seem to be incredibly naive to build a business plan seemingly on assumed increased attendance's...given how predictable Towns support is, it's not as though we're like Preston (a similar club with similar fan base and similar distant memory of success) swinging from 5000 fans one week to 12000 the next. because the solutions you suggest all rely on DH lowering admission prices and therefore covering the loss in income himself if we;'re to remain where we are!!! Do you really think more fans would attend at a cheaper price when we have a worse team thats really struggling?? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 15:33:24 GMT 1
Why on earth do you (and others not prepared to understand why attendance's are dwindling) always jump on the "you're expecting Dean to put more in to cover your own lack of support" line?
It's rubbish. I don't expect or want Dean to put more in, in fact I'd feel a lot better about the club if Dean didn't have to put ANYTHING in. What I want is for the club to take the radical action to protect the income they have and start to look towards potential growth... Rather than go, "I/we threw a load of cash at getting into and staying in this league, now come along and pay for it to help us stay there" Nobody asked for, or demands a Championship club (other in fact, than Dean!), and as an "average fan" i'm sure like others, the league that Town play in is largely irrelevant and it would seem to be incredibly naive to build a business plan seemingly on assumed increased attendance's...given how predictable Towns support is, it's not as though we're like Preston (a similar club with similar fan base and similar distant memory of success) swinging from 5000 fans one week to 12000 the next. because the solutions you suggest all rely on DH lowering admission prices and therefore covering the loss in income himself if we;'re to remain where we are!!! Do you really think more fans would attend at a cheaper price when we have a worse team thats really struggling?? You're really not grasping this are you?! There are less fans attending year on year ALREADY. Do you really think all those still going will continue to attend if prices stay as they are when we'll in all likelihood go into summer with a squad that looks worse than it does today, with all the holes the loan players are currently filling to be replaced AGAIN, notwithstanding the longer term fundamental team weaknesses that we're failing to address properly. The ideas are to stabilise and BOOST income to the club. If the prices stay as they are, Dean (or someone) will need to put in a hell of a lot more next season...even with the extra central distribution money, assuming we aim for similar losses. I can't really see which player/s we have who is going to go for multi millions next summer either. I can say for a fact, I won't be paying £30 for Championship football next season, but at £20 I'd be at ten Saturday matches... That's £200 LESS that I'm asking Dean to provide. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 15:37:08 GMT 1
Do you really think more fans would attend at a cheaper price when we have a worse team thats really struggling?? What I think is the crowd will go down by less next season if prices are reduced than they would do if the prices stay the same. Do you really think something else?! |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Oct 3, 2015 16:02:23 GMT 1
You aren't getting what Im saying which is maybe my fault, so Ill try again.
reducing ticket prices = less income.
Less income = worse players
worse players = losing football
losing football = smaller crowds
I KNOW crowds are falling. But I also KNOW ( because im forever being told it on here) that people won't pay to watch losing football. Doesn't really matter how cheap you make it.
You're idea is that Town will make it really cheap to watch the games..(MUCH cheaper than anyone else in the division), and that will see all these missing thousands coming back in their droves and stop the decline in support we're seeing.
What im saying is that won't work, because unless DH stumps up all the money to make up the difference, we'll have LESS to spend on players, so will have a worse team. And these missing thousands will not pay £20 to watch that.
So dress it up as you like- you ARE asking for DH to pump more money in!
Doing away with category games I agree with. A set price for all games i agree with. A big price reduction THROUGHOUT the whole of football I agree with. but expecting DH to pump more and more money in so fans who don't buy season cards can watch championship football for almost half what fans of our rivals pay is not something that I'm with.
If you want to just watch 10 home games next season, the club already have a scheme in place that means you won't be paying £30 a game to do it.
As I understand the scheme, join it now and next season ( with no joining fee to pay) you WILL be paying about £20 a game!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:07:48 GMT 1
You aren't getting what Im saying which is maybe my fault, so Ill try again. reducing ticket prices = less income. Less income = worse players worse players = losing football losing football = smaller crowds I KNOW crowds are falling. But I also KNOW ( because im forever being told it on here) that people won't pay to watch losing football. Doesn't really matter how cheap you make it. You're idea is that Town will make it really cheap to watch the games..(MUCH cheaper than anyone else in the division), and that will see all these missing thousands coming back in their droves and stop the decline in support we're seeing. What im saying is that won't work, because unless DH stumps up all the money to make up the difference, we'll have LESS to spend on players, so will have a worse team. And these missing thousands will not pay £20 to watch that. So dress it up as you like- you ARE asking for DH to pump more money in! Doing away with category games I agree with. A set price for all games i agree with. A big price reduction THROUGHOUT the whole of football I agree with. but expecting DH to pump more and more money in so fans who don't buy season cards can watch championship football for almost half what fans of our rivals pay is not something that I'm with. If you want to just watch 10 home games next season, the club already have a scheme in place that means you won't be paying £30 a game to do it. As I understand the scheme, join it now and next season ( with no joining fee to pay) you WILL be paying about £20 a game!! What's your solution to the issue Cap'n? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:10:57 GMT 1
And here lies the problem, the floating fans aren't being listened to. I, like many, can't dedicate every Saturday to watching the football team I support. I choose to play cricket and my career path means that Saturday's aren't necessarily free, in fact many people don't work 9-5 mon-fri anymore. These are genuine reasons - many will have them. I as a floating fan have to pay double what the ST pays, is that fair? No. Will I pay it? No. Some people commute to work to, some Town fans even live in other cities. Tuesday nights are a pain in the arse compared to Saturday's when you're replying on trains etc to get you home. I said this earlier in the thread - imagine getting back from Manchester or wherever at 7pm after a long day - do you go watch football eating a rancid pie and drinking overpriced piss or go home for a home cooked tea? When will I part with my money to watch my football club? When it's cheaper and represents value for money. So on the 20th when my freinds are watching Town I'm going to do something else with the £33.50 the club think it's ok to charge. And criticising fans who chose not to pay their hard earned cash for their own reasons isn't the way to encourage them to return. Oh and I support the club, just not the way it's currently being run in regards to pricing. So if it were £20 a game, you'd stop playing cricket, being in a job that requires you to work weekends and isn't located far away from Huddersfield? I'm guessing not, so it wouldn't really have much of an impact on how many games you attend, or anyone in a similar situation, would it? That's not to say I think £33.50 pay on the gate is a fair price, it clearly isn't, but if we're looking at ways to increase how many we get through the gate, then this is a good example of why I don't think charging £20 would have much impact. Again you're not getting the point and picking what you want. I can make the Derby game but I won't be going as it's £33.50, If it was £20 I'd be there. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Oct 3, 2015 16:14:10 GMT 1
Keep saying it mel. All the owners get together and reduce ticket prices across the whole of football. It is forced on them by an agreement they have to stick to. Something on the lines of no ticket to cost more than £20.
bring it in in 3 years time when existing contracts finish and pay the players half what they get now.
same players at the same clubs, just earning a brilliant wage as appose to a mindblowing wage, and the stadiums fuller with no one being priced out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:36:19 GMT 1
If we stay up and the current bottom three in the PL can come down, then that's three 20k+ gates straight away.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:37:22 GMT 1
If we stay up and the current bottom three in the PL can come down, then that's three 20k+ gates straight away. If we go down, Leeds will be with us so thats 1 x 20K gate straight away. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 4, 2015 11:35:06 GMT 1
I think the line 'expecting dean to fund reduced prices' is wearing a bit thin. For a starter Dean is increasingly funding the fact we have lost 3,000 town fans over the past 4 seasons. His Finance director and his football managers have tried to address this, but it hasn't stopped the exodus.
Admission prices have risen 10%+ in recent seasons while inflation has been 0.5% and many peoples wages frozen, or gone up very little - some have reduced hours, many below a living wage...we have a country where the lower/middle income earners have taken a financial knock over the past 5-7 years.. that is the backdrop.
Dean has stated the Coady sale funded the loss for this season, and that I assume means his input this season is not required. Since then we have sold Smithies and Butterfield. The clubs losses are reducing,and now run at £4m or less. I haven't checked these figures, just from memory..but the key point is Dean has said he is prepared to fund a price reduction from the profits from transfer dealings..and I take that to mean when a slice has been taken out to balance the books. If I've got this right, then a reduction in prices would not be funded by dean, but by profits from transfer dealings.?
The second point, and the most crucial one, is would a price reduction be self financing by higher numbers of supporters ? This can only be speculated on, I read some posts where people say they would come if it were cheaper,but other posters insist more fans wouldn't come - even if it were £5 (for instance).
So what to do ? The club surely can not just do nothing, we can't survive on 10,000 gates. I'm not sure how many SC holders we have now, 8,000 seems to ring a bell..it might be less..but they have already coughed up their money so we're only talking of the floaters here, the pay at the gate fans who face the highest prices the club has,many paying the £3 surcharge on the day, through choice or ignorance - many fans losing touch with Town, not reading the website, not on social media and reading DATM etc..disaffected fans. These fans aren't interested in seeking out discounts and offers..they just hold in their heads £30.00 to get in. In my opinion,which I've already posted,we need to moveaway from this headline figure and tell the fans it's £20. every game,any stand. end of story. That can then be marketing and published,passed around by word of mouth..it becomes common knowledge. For arguments sake, say we have 2,000 floaters paying £30, then we'd need 3,000 fans paying £20 to break even. Can we get another 1,000 fans from the 3,000 who have stopped going ? That is the question dean and his board need to consider when they meeet up.
I think the fans need clarity on admission prices, the category system is verymuch disliked, even if understood..the £3 surcharge is probably the worst decision the club have made..throw in the random offers and discounts and I just think the floaters eyes glaze over..
For fans who have bought a SC this season, they would still see their avergae price of £16 a game for the remainder of the season as good value, and even if they feel a bit niffed my earlier post suggested a flat 25% discount on match day prices for Season cards (that would be £15 per game)..maybe for next season. In the end though, it is the 'collective good of the club' we all need to consider..the casual fans have faced the brunt of price hikes for years now, I don't think it is unreasonable for SC holders to lose a bit of their %'age disount.
When it comes to away fans, that has averaged around 1,500 in recent years and I don't see the logic in stinging 3,000 home fans every week so the club can maximise the income from 1,500 away fans. If anything this policy of charging away fans the highest we can has had the knock on effect of driving home fans away. I'm an advocate of the twentiesplenty for away fans, and I believe Town should introduce that immediately in tandem with a match day price reduction to £20 for home fans. I also believe this would be self funding with right amount of publicity and marketing because I think we can get at least 1,000 fans back in the ground.
|
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 4, 2015 12:18:32 GMT 1
I think the line 'expecting dean to fund reduced prices' is wearing a bit thin. For a starter Dean is increasingly funding the fact we have lost 3,000 town fans over the past 4 seasons. His Finance director and his football managers have tried to address this, but it hasn't stopped the exodus. Admission prices have risen 10%+ in recent seasons while inflation has been 0.5% and many peoples wages frozen, or gone up very little - some have reduced hours, many below a living wage...we have a country where the lower/middle income earners have taken a financial knock over the past 5-7 years.. that is the backdrop. Dean has stated the Coady sale funded the loss for this season, and that I assume means his input this season is not required. Since then we have sold Smithies and Butterfield. The clubs losses are reducing,and now run at £4m or less. I haven't checked these figures, just from memory..but the key point is Dean has said he is prepared to fund a price reduction from the profits from transfer dealings..and I take that to mean when a slice has been taken out to balance the books. If I've got this right, then a reduction in prices would not be funded by dean, but by profits from transfer dealings.? The second point, and the most crucial one, is would a price reduction be self financing by higher numbers of supporters ? This can only be speculated on, I read some posts where people say they would come if it were cheaper,but other posters insist more fans wouldn't come - even if it were £5 (for instance). So what to do ? The club surely can not just do nothing, we can't survive on 10,000 gates. I'm not sure how many SC holders we have now, 8,000 seems to ring a bell..it might be less..but they have already coughed up their money so we're only talking of the floaters here, the pay at the gate fans who face the highest prices the club has,many paying the £3 surcharge on the day, through choice or ignorance - many fans losing touch with Town, not reading the website, not on social media and reading DATM etc..disaffected fans. These fans aren't interested in seeking out discounts and offers..they just hold in their heads £30.00 to get in. In my opinion,which I've already posted,we need to moveaway from this headline figure and tell the fans it's £20. every game,any stand. end of story. That can then be marketing and published,passed around by word of mouth..it becomes common knowledge. For arguments sake, say we have 2,000 floaters paying £30, then we'd need 3,000 fans paying £20 to break even. Can we get another 1,000 fans from the 3,000 who have stopped going ? That is the question dean and his board need to consider when they meeet up. I think the fans need clarity on admission prices, the category system is verymuch disliked, even if understood..the £3 surcharge is probably the worst decision the club have made..throw in the random offers and discounts and I just think the floaters eyes glaze over.. For fans who have bought a SC this season, they would still see their avergae price of £16 a game for the remainder of the season as good value, and even if they feel a bit niffed my earlier post suggested a flat 25% discount on match day prices for Season cards (that would be £15 per game)..maybe for next season. In the end though, it is the 'collective good of the club' we all need to consider..the casual fans have faced the brunt of price hikes for years now, I don't think it is unreasonable for SC holders to lose a bit of their %'age disount. When it comes to away fans, that has averaged around 1,500 in recent years and I don't see the logic in stinging 3,000 home fans every week so the club can maximise the income from 1,500 away fans. If anything this policy of charging away fans the highest we can has had the knock on effect of driving home fans away. I'm an advocate of the twentiesplenty for away fans, and I believe Town should introduce that immediately in tandem with a match day price reduction to £20 for home fans. I also believe this would be self funding with right amount of publicity and marketing because I think we can get at least 1,000 fans back in the ground. In times gone by both Blackburn and Bolton would have near enough filled the away end but this season didn't even half fill it. Whilst they, like us were languishing near the bottom of the table, they probably had the same attitude as some of our fans in that they weren't prepared to pay the current price. £20 would surely attract more away fans as well as home fans and the shortfall in reducing the price should be more than covered by the bigger attendance. However this needs to be trialled over a period of time and not just on selected midweek games when the attendances are traditionally lower anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 4, 2015 12:44:17 GMT 1
I think the line 'expecting dean to fund reduced prices' is wearing a bit thin. For a starter Dean is increasingly funding the fact we have lost 3,000 town fans over the past 4 seasons. His Finance director and his football managers have tried to address this, but it hasn't stopped the exodus. Admission prices have risen 10%+ in recent seasons while inflation has been 0.5% and many peoples wages frozen, or gone up very little - some have reduced hours, many below a living wage...we have a country where the lower/middle income earners have taken a financial knock over the past 5-7 years.. that is the backdrop. Dean has stated the Coady sale funded the loss for this season, and that I assume means his input this season is not required. Since then we have sold Smithies and Butterfield. The clubs losses are reducing,and now run at £4m or less. I haven't checked these figures, just from memory..but the key point is Dean has said he is prepared to fund a price reduction from the profits from transfer dealings..and I take that to mean when a slice has been taken out to balance the books. If I've got this right, then a reduction in prices would not be funded by dean, but by profits from transfer dealings.? The second point, and the most crucial one, is would a price reduction be self financing by higher numbers of supporters ? This can only be speculated on, I read some posts where people say they would come if it were cheaper,but other posters insist more fans wouldn't come - even if it were £5 (for instance). So what to do ? The club surely can not just do nothing, we can't survive on 10,000 gates. I'm not sure how many SC holders we have now, 8,000 seems to ring a bell..it might be less..but they have already coughed up their money so we're only talking of the floaters here, the pay at the gate fans who face the highest prices the club has,many paying the £3 surcharge on the day, through choice or ignorance - many fans losing touch with Town, not reading the website, not on social media and reading DATM etc..disaffected fans. These fans aren't interested in seeking out discounts and offers..they just hold in their heads £30.00 to get in. In my opinion,which I've already posted,we need to moveaway from this headline figure and tell the fans it's £20. every game,any stand. end of story. That can then be marketing and published,passed around by word of mouth..it becomes common knowledge. For arguments sake, say we have 2,000 floaters paying £30, then we'd need 3,000 fans paying £20 to break even. Can we get another 1,000 fans from the 3,000 who have stopped going ? That is the question dean and his board need to consider when they meeet up. I think the fans need clarity on admission prices, the category system is verymuch disliked, even if understood..the £3 surcharge is probably the worst decision the club have made..throw in the random offers and discounts and I just think the floaters eyes glaze over.. For fans who have bought a SC this season, they would still see their avergae price of £16 a game for the remainder of the season as good value, and even if they feel a bit niffed my earlier post suggested a flat 25% discount on match day prices for Season cards (that would be £15 per game)..maybe for next season. In the end though, it is the 'collective good of the club' we all need to consider..the casual fans have faced the brunt of price hikes for years now, I don't think it is unreasonable for SC holders to lose a bit of their %'age disount. When it comes to away fans, that has averaged around 1,500 in recent years and I don't see the logic in stinging 3,000 home fans every week so the club can maximise the income from 1,500 away fans. If anything this policy of charging away fans the highest we can has had the knock on effect of driving home fans away. I'm an advocate of the twentiesplenty for away fans, and I believe Town should introduce that immediately in tandem with a match day price reduction to £20 for home fans. I also believe this would be self funding with right amount of publicity and marketing because I think we can get at least 1,000 fans back in the ground. In times gone by both Blackburn and Bolton would have near enough filled the away end but this season didn't even half fill it. Whilst they, like us were languishing near the bottom of the table, they probably had the same attitude as some of our fans in that they weren't prepared to pay the current price. £20 would surely attract more away fans as well as home fans and the shortfall in reducing the price should be more than covered by the bigger attendance. However this needs to be trialled over a period of time and not just on selected midweek games when the attendances are traditionally lower anyway. it's hard to make comparisons between seasons as it all depends on the league position/fans confidence in the away club..Bolton brought 3,900 last season..less than 1,600 this season, I don't think that is all price, although some of it would be. But for me it's the principle where some clubs are charging sky high prices for away fans, it's just plain wrong. In Town's own case, where we have a crisis now of rapidly reduced number of home fans attending, I think the time has come for radical new ideas. We've had all the fudges over the years and they've done nothing to stop the decline. I realise that if the team were better and pushing at the top of the league, things might be different, but we're dealing with the here and now. The danger is we'll alienate a generation of fans who will just find other habits on a match day. We've been there before with the dark days of league 4, and they did come back..but football was a lot cheaper then, even in relative terms. We can't afford to keep losing fans like we are doing, and if the club continue with the policy of 'consolidation' in the Championship coupled with the total unfairness of sky money distribution our prospects of being a promotion chasing club anytime in the near future don't look good. Attitudes seemed to have changed, many fans are getting disallusioned with football anyway, Dean and his board need to come up with some new ideas. One statistic we don't now see is how many of those fans we have splashed out for a SC can't be bothered to turn up now - that surely must be the most damning stat because from what I hear, the stadium looks far emptier than the published gate. |
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Oct 4, 2015 13:00:34 GMT 1
Another suggestion re floating fans - keep your tickets, get free admission for say 6 old tickets -bit like they do with coffee at McDonalds etc
|
|
|
|
Post by rantinray on Oct 4, 2015 13:16:14 GMT 1
I think the line 'expecting dean to fund reduced prices' is wearing a bit thin. For a starter Dean is increasingly funding the fact we have lost 3,000 town fans over the past 4 seasons. His Finance director and his football managers have tried to address this, but it hasn't stopped the exodus. Admission prices have risen 10%+ in recent seasons while inflation has been 0.5% and many peoples wages frozen, or gone up very little - some have reduced hours, many below a living wage...we have a country where the lower/middle income earners have taken a financial knock over the past 5-7 years.. that is the backdrop. Dean has stated the Coady sale funded the loss for this season, and that I assume means his input this season is not required. Since then we have sold Smithies and Butterfield. The clubs losses are reducing,and now run at £4m or less. I haven't checked these figures, just from memory..but the key point is Dean has said he is prepared to fund a price reduction from the profits from transfer dealings..and I take that to mean when a slice has been taken out to balance the books. If I've got this right, then a reduction in prices would not be funded by dean, but by profits from transfer dealings.? The second point, and the most crucial one, is would a price reduction be self financing by higher numbers of supporters ? This can only be speculated on, I read some posts where people say they would come if it were cheaper,but other posters insist more fans wouldn't come - even if it were £5 (for instance). So what to do ? The club surely can not just do nothing, we can't survive on 10,000 gates. I'm not sure how many SC holders we have now, 8,000 seems to ring a bell..it might be less..but they have already coughed up their money so we're only talking of the floaters here, the pay at the gate fans who face the highest prices the club has,many paying the £3 surcharge on the day, through choice or ignorance - many fans losing touch with Town, not reading the website, not on social media and reading DATM etc..disaffected fans. These fans aren't interested in seeking out discounts and offers..they just hold in their heads £30.00 to get in. In my opinion,which I've already posted,we need to moveaway from this headline figure and tell the fans it's £20. every game,any stand. end of story. That can then be marketing and published,passed around by word of mouth..it becomes common knowledge. For arguments sake, say we have 2,000 floaters paying £30, then we'd need 3,000 fans paying £20 to break even. Can we get another 1,000 fans from the 3,000 who have stopped going ? That is the question dean and his board need to consider when they meeet up. I think the fans need clarity on admission prices, the category system is verymuch disliked, even if understood..the £3 surcharge is probably the worst decision the club have made..throw in the random offers and discounts and I just think the floaters eyes glaze over.. For fans who have bought a SC this season, they would still see their avergae price of £16 a game for the remainder of the season as good value, and even if they feel a bit niffed my earlier post suggested a flat 25% discount on match day prices for Season cards (that would be £15 per game)..maybe for next season. In the end though, it is the 'collective good of the club' we all need to consider..the casual fans have faced the brunt of price hikes for years now, I don't think it is unreasonable for SC holders to lose a bit of their %'age disount. When it comes to away fans, that has averaged around 1,500 in recent years and I don't see the logic in stinging 3,000 home fans every week so the club can maximise the income from 1,500 away fans. If anything this policy of charging away fans the highest we can has had the knock on effect of driving home fans away. I'm an advocate of the twentiesplenty for away fans, and I believe Town should introduce that immediately in tandem with a match day price reduction to £20 for home fans. I also believe this would be self funding with right amount of publicity and marketing because I think we can get at least 1,000 fans back in the ground. The option to lower the entrance price to gain more fans is a gamble and yes if it fails it will be the club (DH) who will have to stand that loss. Entertainment value and cost are as we know directly linked. So, chicken and egg, where do we start. To get the fans to turn up we need entertaining football at a price the fans can afford. DH has put money into the club some of that money has not been spent wisely. To get entertaining football for the fans I am afraid he will have to put more money in. He does not really wish to go down this route, so, what is the answer to the conundrum? The bottom line is the performances of the team, that needs to improve, will it improve with the current squad? Good luck DH, he will need it. |
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 6, 2015 11:51:51 GMT 1
The fans that use to up the attendances figures are the " neutral " who actually don't support a team , but are attracted to a game mainly by media hype. These neutral fans are normally found in family support , as all the family and friends could be attracted to a game if there something "exciting " to shout about.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:13:37 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by stevvy on Oct 7, 2015 15:28:12 GMT 1
I suppose 1 issue with the price reduction for example is if you have 2k paying £30, that's what, £6k we have to fork out with that 'this is how much we pay per attendee' thing (although that £3 we have to pay is the same regardless of whether someone pays £3 or £30 as a child, adult or whatever), if it went to 3k paying £20, that's £9k we have to fork out rather than £6k (small amount if you think of it as a single game, but an extra £70k or so per season). Ok those fans might come back another time, or they might buy a programme or something, but there's that £3 that we have to pay to think about too in terms of how much money we make by increasing home attendances by reducing the price.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 15:38:29 GMT 1
If people don't want to come to the John Smiths and watch Powellball, then cutting the price won't make much difference.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:08:28 GMT 1
If the club don't address the pricing, we will be verging on lower L1 attendances.
|
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 7, 2015 16:09:03 GMT 1
I suppose 1 issue with the price reduction for example is if you have 2k paying £30, that's what, £6k we have to fork out with that 'this is how much we pay per attendee' thing (although that £3 we have to pay is the same regardless of whether someone pays £3 or £30 as a child, adult or whatever), if it went to 3k paying £20, that's £9k we have to fork out rather than £6k (small amount if you think of it as a single game, but an extra £70k or so per season). Ok those fans might come back another time, or they might buy a programme or something, but there's that £3 that we have to pay to think about too in terms of how much money we make by increasing home attendances by reducing the price. I don't understand any of this  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:29:08 GMT 1
I suppose 1 issue with the price reduction for example is if you have 2k paying £30, that's what, £6k we have to fork out with that 'this is how much we pay per attendee' thing (although that £3 we have to pay is the same regardless of whether someone pays £3 or £30 as a child, adult or whatever), if it went to 3k paying £20, that's £9k we have to fork out rather than £6k (small amount if you think of it as a single game, but an extra £70k or so per season). Ok those fans might come back another time, or they might buy a programme or something, but there's that £3 that we have to pay to think about too in terms of how much money we make by increasing home attendances by reducing the price. I don't understand any of this You do know whatever price you pay for your seat KSDL cream off £3 in rent?  |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 7, 2015 16:42:24 GMT 1
I don't understand any of this You do know whatever price you pay for your seat KSDL cream off £3 in rent? Oh ! It's about the KSDL rent ? I had no idea..just thought stevvy was bad at maths, and missing zero's out etc...  so what's he saying, ? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:45:18 GMT 1
If next home match was free how many fans would turn up?
|
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 7, 2015 16:48:03 GMT 1
If next home match was free how many fans would turn up? is that a rhetorical question, if so what's the follow up ? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:51:03 GMT 1
If next home match was free how many fans would turn up? , if so what's the follow up ? No, it's a potato. ( One for Condescending Terrier's avatar) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:52:38 GMT 1
If next home match was free how many fans would turn up? is that a rhetorical question, if so what's the follow up ? No I'm just wondering what people think we'd get. I'd hazard sub-13k. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 16:58:11 GMT 1
You do know whatever price you pay for your seat KSDL cream off £3 in rent? Oh ! It's about the KSDL rent ? I had no idea..just thought stevvy was bad at maths, and missing zero's out etc... so what's he saying, ? I think what he's trying to say is the rent is constant regardless of price. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2015 17:33:12 GMT 1
Only way I see our attendances improving is if were fighting for promotion, still not right how the fans our being ripped off. Maybe Nigels got this one correct, walk up prices are more used as an excuse by pay on the day fans (rightly so) and i wouldn't expect us to get many more through the gates were it £20 a game, cheaper season tickets could be a different matter though.
|
|
