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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 21, 2018 8:33:32 GMT 1
If Wagner rests players against Brum to improve performances he needs to give his head shake...because the last 4 games there were no performances. Has a team ever averaged 2 shots per match on target over a season? Woeful. It seems we paid £8 million for Malones left leg and we got the right for free....i am afraid it was over-priced. Watford was 35 days ago...seems like 35 years.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 21, 2018 9:43:53 GMT 1
If Wagner rests players against Brum to improve performances he needs to give his head shake...because the last 4 games there were no performances. Has a team ever averaged 2 shots per match on target over a season? Woeful. It seems we paid £8 million for Malones left leg and we got the right for free....i am afraid it was over-priced. Watford was 35 days ago...seems like 35 years. Agree. Mate. They need to get some confidence back v brum. Not start messing about with team again that’s half the problem imo .
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Post by wtd on Jan 21, 2018 9:52:43 GMT 1
Quick question for you: Why was Kongolo brought in if he isn’t deemed better than either Malone at full-back or Zanka at centre-back?
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 21, 2018 9:54:15 GMT 1
What was up with 11 million pound Pritchard ?
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Post by El Mel on Jan 21, 2018 9:55:43 GMT 1
Lambert saying we never threatened them? That is not good enough, not against Stoke. Wagner's creating all sorts of problems for himself now. What sort of post is this it’s just rubbish why is Wagner creating problems for himself? for goodness sake he is the best manager we have had in 45 years just stick with him and stop this nonsense about sacking him we have the next six games to get our season back on track so let’s not forget what position we where in just two yeas ago and get behind him and the team. Because looking at our fixtures I see 4 fixtures that we have a decent chance of winning. Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford and Palace, all at home. We need to win all of them, and I'm not sure we will. Forget the away fixtures, we've played enough games this season to know that if we win an away game, then it'll be down to the other team contributing by being terrible, and even then there are only two fixtures that look like they might present us with an opportunity. Wagner continues to have us play in this lacklustre fashion that lacks intent. We've bought players (expensive ones at that), that aren't contributing, and there appears to be no signs if him changing how he sets us up. The bloke can be questioned Reading, we can't just sit here and be thankful for him getting us promoted and pretend that we aren't in the deep brown stuff with games running out. Don't get me wrong, I think the bloke has been fantastic for us, and I'll be eternally thankful for him putting us into the top flight, but if we are going to be relegated while pissing about playing football that doesn't merit goals and points, then I'm going to ask questions as well.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jan 21, 2018 10:23:29 GMT 1
We have 7 players that either cost £10 million or more or are valued at that. Whats wrong? Mooy and VLP have not become bad footballers overnight, the only consistency we have seen this season is Schindler. On another note, did anyone meet VLP's mate over to watch him? 6 foot 9! Get him soon boots!
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Post by wtd on Jan 21, 2018 10:26:39 GMT 1
What sort of post is this it’s just rubbish why is Wagner creating problems for himself? for goodness sake he is the best manager we have had in 45 years just stick with him and stop this nonsense about sacking him we have the next six games to get our season back on track so let’s not forget what position we where in just two yeas ago and get behind him and the team. Because looking at our fixtures I see 4 fixtures that we have a decent chance of winning. Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford and Palace, all at home. We need to win all of them, and I'm not sure we will. Forget the away fixtures, we've played enough games this season to know that if we win an away game, then it'll be down to the other team contributing by being terrible, and even then there are only two fixtures that look like they might present us with an opportunity. Wagner continues to have us play in this lacklustre fashion that lacks intent. We've bought players (expensive ones at that), that aren't contributing, and there appears to be no signs if him changing how he sets us up. The bloke can be questioned Reading, we can't just sit here and be thankful for him getting us promoted and pretend that we aren't in the deep brown stuff with games running out. Don't get me wrong, I think the bloke has been fantastic for us, and I'll be eternally thankful for him putting us into the top flight, but if we are going to be relegated while pissing about playing football that doesn't merit goals and points, then I'm going to ask questions as well. Hi Graham. I have no interest in antagonising you, but it has to be said you took the same stance and asked the same questions of Wagner in our promotion season when things got sticky and tough. You were proved wrong then. You’ve every right on such a forum as this to ask questions of the team, club, manager... but MAYBE it’s also us, the fans, who need to ask questions of ourselves at such times, too. If we begin to carp and moan and doubt en masse, doesn’t that, even in a tiny way, begin to undermine the manager and his players at a time when they are desperately seeking and wanting the utmost unity and support? I feel the guy has done enough (in little over two years at the club!) for us to afford him more respect than to be questioning his position after his first REALLY difficult patch in what is notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive in, especially when you are the poorest member of the group. If you think what is said on here and in the stands doesn’t eventually drip down through to the players and management, then I think you are wrong. You may, of course, NOT think that... in which case, why should we be putting the manager’s position up for discussion at all in what is such a difficult time for him? It really doesn’t help him or the club one bit.
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Post by morleyterrier on Jan 21, 2018 10:26:46 GMT 1
Quick question for you: Why was Kongolo brought in if he isn’t deemed better than either Malone at full-back or Zanka at centre-back? We have been saying exactly the same. I dread to think what his wages are and surely this expensive 'slot' could have been used for another Player / Position with an eye on them regularly starting?.
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Post by kennyk2 on Jan 21, 2018 10:26:50 GMT 1
I tend to think it is a confidence thing. When almost every pundit and "expert" is forecasting relegation some of this must affect the confidence of the players. They cannot ignore every single detrimental article regarding the prospects of the club. A sort of positive feedback where performances get poorer as the likelihood of relegation increases.
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Post by El Mel on Jan 21, 2018 10:35:12 GMT 1
Because looking at our fixtures I see 4 fixtures that we have a decent chance of winning. Swansea, Bournemouth, Watford and Palace, all at home. We need to win all of them, and I'm not sure we will. Forget the away fixtures, we've played enough games this season to know that if we win an away game, then it'll be down to the other team contributing by being terrible, and even then there are only two fixtures that look like they might present us with an opportunity. Wagner continues to have us play in this lacklustre fashion that lacks intent. We've bought players (expensive ones at that), that aren't contributing, and there appears to be no signs if him changing how he sets us up. The bloke can be questioned Reading, we can't just sit here and be thankful for him getting us promoted and pretend that we aren't in the deep brown stuff with games running out. Don't get me wrong, I think the bloke has been fantastic for us, and I'll be eternally thankful for him putting us into the top flight, but if we are going to be relegated while pissing about playing football that doesn't merit goals and points, then I'm going to ask questions as well. Hi Graham. I have no interest in antagonising you, but it has to be said you took the same stance and asked the same questions of Wagner in our promotion season when things got sticky and tough. You were proved wrong then. You’ve every right on such a forum as this to ask questions of the team, club, manager... but MAYBE it’s also us, the fans, who need to ask questions of ourselves at such times, too. If we begin to carp and moan and doubt en masse, doesn’t that, even in a tiny way, begin to undermine the manager and his players at a time when they are desperately seeking and wanting the utmost unity and support? I feel the guy has done enough (in little over two years at the club!) for us to afford him more respect than to be questioning his position after his first REALLY difficult patch in what is notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive in, especially when you are the poorest member of the group. If you think what is said on here and in the stands doesn’t eventually drip down through to the players and management, then I think you are wrong. You may, of course, NOT think that... in which case, why should we be putting the manager’s position up for discussion at all in what is such a difficult time for him? It really doesn’t help him or the club one bit. So when the fans complained last season (as I did, you are correct), we went on to get promoted, where is the logic/proof that it has a negative effect? Maybe it actually stimulates a positive response?
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Post by York Terrier on Jan 21, 2018 10:52:04 GMT 1
Hi Graham. I have no interest in antagonising you, but it has to be said you took the same stance and asked the same questions of Wagner in our promotion season when things got sticky and tough. You were proved wrong then. You’ve every right on such a forum as this to ask questions of the team, club, manager... but MAYBE it’s also us, the fans, who need to ask questions of ourselves at such times, too. If we begin to carp and moan and doubt en masse, doesn’t that, even in a tiny way, begin to undermine the manager and his players at a time when they are desperately seeking and wanting the utmost unity and support? I feel the guy has done enough (in little over two years at the club!) for us to afford him more respect than to be questioning his position after his first REALLY difficult patch in what is notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive in, especially when you are the poorest member of the group. If you think what is said on here and in the stands doesn’t eventually drip down through to the players and management, then I think you are wrong. You may, of course, NOT think that... in which case, why should we be putting the manager’s position up for discussion at all in what is such a difficult time for him? It really doesn’t help him or the club one bit. So when the fans complained last season (as I did, you are correct), we went on to get promoted, where is the logic/proof that it has a negative effect? Maybe it actually stimulates a positive response? Football is all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own. I have only missed two games this season Everton and Swansea and if I am honest some of the away games have been dire in both performance and our approach to the game. I have also been fortunate to be at Palace and Watford and all our home games I understand you concern but I think DW has a strategy to try to win certain games,pick up a point in others and not get a thrashing in games he knows we won’t win. We only need 4 more wins to be safe and as you say we have 4 out of the next 6 that are winnable. DH says he will not get rid of DW if we go down Burnley stuck with SD when they went straight back down, the team are learning DW is learning so let’s give him our full support all the way to the end of the season and see where this takes us.
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Post by wtd on Jan 21, 2018 10:54:40 GMT 1
Hi Graham. I have no interest in antagonising you, but it has to be said you took the same stance and asked the same questions of Wagner in our promotion season when things got sticky and tough. You were proved wrong then. You’ve every right on such a forum as this to ask questions of the team, club, manager... but MAYBE it’s also us, the fans, who need to ask questions of ourselves at such times, too. If we begin to carp and moan and doubt en masse, doesn’t that, even in a tiny way, begin to undermine the manager and his players at a time when they are desperately seeking and wanting the utmost unity and support? I feel the guy has done enough (in little over two years at the club!) for us to afford him more respect than to be questioning his position after his first REALLY difficult patch in what is notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive in, especially when you are the poorest member of the group. If you think what is said on here and in the stands doesn’t eventually drip down through to the players and management, then I think you are wrong. You may, of course, NOT think that... in which case, why should we be putting the manager’s position up for discussion at all in what is such a difficult time for him? It really doesn’t help him or the club one bit. So when the fans complained last season (as I did, you are correct), we went on to get promoted, where is the logic/proof that it has a negative effect? Maybe it actually stimulates a positive response? Your negativity might have somehow fired him up and us to promotion sort of thing? If you think so. Maybe I underestimate the strength of the man, and criticism is just water off a ducks back. Hope so, anyway. Because, somewhat unwarranted and unnecessarily (IMO)... here the criticism comes!!!!
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Post by El Mel on Jan 21, 2018 11:03:15 GMT 1
So when the fans complained last season (as I did, you are correct), we went on to get promoted, where is the logic/proof that it has a negative effect? Maybe it actually stimulates a positive response? Y our negativity might have somehow fired him up and us to promotion sort of thing? If you think so. Maybe I underestimate the strength of the man, and criticism is just water off a ducks back. Hope so, anyway. Because, somewhat unwarranted and unnecessarily (IMO)... here the criticism comes!!!! No I don't think so. If he can't deal with a bit of criticism, then the blokes in the wrong job. All I've said is that he is creating problems for himself, if we go to Stoke and don't look interested in getting a point, when we have a dwindling number of winnable games, I don't think I'm being unfair. Anyway, I've got some letters in front of me asking for £630 to watch us play football next season, like David, I have some tough decisions to make.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 21, 2018 11:10:20 GMT 1
Y our negativity might have somehow fired him up and us to promotion sort of thing? If you think so. Maybe I underestimate the strength of the man, and criticism is just water off a ducks back. Hope so, anyway. Because, somewhat unwarranted and unnecessarily (IMO)... here the criticism comes!!!! No I don't think so. If he can't deal with a bit of criticism, then the blokes in the wrong job. All I've said is that he is creating problems for himself, if we go to Stoke and don't look interested in getting a point, when we have a dwindling number of winnable games, I don't think I'm being unfair. Anyway, I've got some letters in front of me asking for £630 to watch us play football next season, like David, I have some tough decisions to make. And Waggers says the players invested everything Wow, I like Waggers but that's crap.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:14:38 GMT 1
There is nothing in our tactics, performances, attitude & commitment or desire ro win a football match that gives me any confidence in David Wagner or his team. Love to know what goes on in the training sessions & preparation and then we get this absolute rubbish. It's pretty laughable really with the same old routine where Christoph Buhler stands on the half way line watching the opposition team warm up. Why? What's the point! Be better off focusing on enhancing the performance of our players surely. It's a joke & i wouldn't be surprised if other teams & coaches piss themselves laughing at us as well. Things need to change.
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Post by wtd on Jan 21, 2018 11:20:48 GMT 1
Y our negativity might have somehow fired him up and us to promotion sort of thing? If you think so. Maybe I underestimate the strength of the man, and criticism is just water off a ducks back. Hope so, anyway. Because, somewhat unwarranted and unnecessarily (IMO)... here the criticism comes!!!! No I don't think so. If he can't deal with a bit of criticism, then the blokes in the wrong job. All I've said is that he is creating problems for himself, if we go to Stoke and don't look interested in getting a point, when we have a dwindling number of winnable games, I don't think I'm being unfair. Anyway, I've got some letters in front of me asking for £630 to watch us play football next season, like David, I have some tough decisions to make. £630 (and for THREE people, presumably?) to watch Championship/Premier League football, under whichever manager, is a steal for almost any ‘supporter’... wouldn’t you say?
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Post by BottomLip on Jan 21, 2018 11:26:20 GMT 1
Quick question for you: Why was Kongolo brought in if he isn’t deemed better than either Malone at full-back or Zanka at centre-back? Absolutely spot on. Kongolo a man who went from one Champions League team to another for a big fee and very very highly rated, isn't deemed better than Zanka (Champions League with Copenhagen I know) or Malone? He is, I just suspect he's bedding him in, which personally is a load of shite. He needs to start and give us some confidence at the back. We looked scared yesterday and not just in defence. Players were flapping when in possession and misplacing passes or providing the most dodgiest of back passes...again
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 21, 2018 11:31:40 GMT 1
Lambert saying we never threatened them? That is not good enough, not against Stoke. Wagner's creating all sorts of problems for himself now. What sort of post is this it’s just rubbish why is Wagner creating problems for himself? for goodness sake he is the best manager we have had in 45 years just stick with him and stop this nonsense about sacking him we have the next six games to get our season back on track so let’s not forget what position we where in just two yeas ago and get behind him and the team. Bloody hell which sane person has hijacked your account
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Post by El Mel on Jan 21, 2018 11:32:34 GMT 1
No I don't think so. If he can't deal with a bit of criticism, then the blokes in the wrong job. All I've said is that he is creating problems for himself, if we go to Stoke and don't look interested in getting a point, when we have a dwindling number of winnable games, I don't think I'm being unfair. Anyway, I've got some letters in front of me asking for £630 to watch us play football next season, like David, I have some tough decisions to make. £630 (and for THREE people, presumably?) to watch Championship/Premier League football, under whichever manager, is a steal for almost any ‘supporter’... wouldn’t you say? I'd say it's good value. (although I do think £129 for an 8 year old kid is on the steep side) However, I have other things to spend my money on, watching football is a pastime for me, not a way of life as it is for some. I have other interests that occupy my time and money, and I have to decide what takes priority. There are many more in the same boat as myself. I'm not criticising the club on the prices here, they are good - the rest of football is eating itself with inflated ticket prices, but that is another topic.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:34:29 GMT 1
Quick question for you: Why was Kongolo brought in if he isn’t deemed better than either Malone at full-back or Zanka at centre-back? Absolutely spot on. Kongolo a man who went from one Champions League team to another for a big fee and very very highly rated, isn't deemed better than Zanka (Champions League with Copenhagen I know) or Malone? He is, I just suspect he's bedding him in, which personally is a load of shite. He needs to start and give us some confidence at the back. We looked scared yesterday and not just in defence. Players were flapping when in possession and misplacing passes or providing the most dodgiest of back passes...again I said last week on that radio program on Monday night at six that our confidence is shot. We have players playing who shouldn't be anywhere near the premier league, and yet we bench players who can actually make us better, and who are a huge step up on some of the utter dross (Malone...cough) we have playing every week. The fans are being given short shrift and are being asked to shell out to watch us not even try to win games. I mentioned it's like going back to Powellball, but Powellball gave us more attacking threat. What is the fix? I have no idea at all, and what should be alarming is the Wagner does not appear to know either.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jan 21, 2018 11:34:37 GMT 1
Be careful what you wish for Melsmooth
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:38:04 GMT 1
No time to read all the posts so apologies if someone else said the same. That was just the same as the Everton game, new manager gives them a lift, we do ok up to half time without creating owt they score an early 2nd half goal, game over. Another day when very few can be pleased with their contribution, Schindler and Hogg were decent and the keeper made some good saves but most were very poor. 2-0 probably flattered us as Shaqiri could and should have scored twice as once again we never looked like scoring. I'm a glass half full guy normally but we're hard to watch at the moment and it's difficult to see where our next win's coming from, DW has got his work cut out and good the FA cup game gives us a bit of a break before the Man Utd/Liverpool games. Try and keep the faith, UTT.
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Post by BottomLip on Jan 21, 2018 11:39:18 GMT 1
Absolutely spot on. Kongolo a man who went from one Champions League team to another for a big fee and very very highly rated, isn't deemed better than Zanka (Champions League with Copenhagen I know) or Malone? He is, I just suspect he's bedding him in, which personally is a load of shite. He needs to start and give us some confidence at the back. We looked scared yesterday and not just in defence. Players were flapping when in possession and misplacing passes or providing the most dodgiest of back passes...again I said last week on that radio program on Monday night at six that our confidence is shot. We have players playing who shouldn't be anywhere near the premier league, and yet we bench players who can actually make us better, and who are a huge step up on some of the utter cross (Malone...cough) we have playing every week. The fans are being given short shrift and are being asked to shell out to watch us not even try to win games. I mentioned it's like going back to Powellball, but Powellball gave us more attacking threat. What is the fix? I have no idea at all, and what should be alarming is the Wagner does not appear to know either. Even I know Kongolo is a major improvement on either Malone or Zanka... Its a bit baffling, I just hope Wagner has a little time out to reevaluate and find his marbles, because he's having a bit of a mare at the minute. I've full faith in him still,but if it goes another 3 or 4 games and we aren't winning any, the same mistakes are happening from the same players,he may completely have run out of ideas in the Prem. I'd never sack the bloke as hes done wonders,I couldn't. Thank god I'm not Deano
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boooothy
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Post by boooothy on Jan 21, 2018 11:40:44 GMT 1
I agree that yesterday was terrible but look at Brighton and Newcastle. 2 other promoted teams who’s season has mirrored ours it’s no surprise.
Also Watford have just binned there manager, very similar season to ours
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 11:42:03 GMT 1
I said last week on that radio program on Monday night at six that our confidence is shot. We have players playing who shouldn't be anywhere near the premier league, and yet we bench players who can actually make us better, and who are a huge step up on some of the utter cross (Malone...cough) we have playing every week. The fans are being given short shrift and are being asked to shell out to watch us not even try to win games. I mentioned it's like going back to Powellball, but Powellball gave us more attacking threat. What is the fix? I have no idea at all, and what should be alarming is the Wagner does not appear to know either. Even I know Kongolo is a major improvement on either Malone or Zanka... Its a bit baffling, I just hope Wagner has a little time out to reevaluate and find his marbles, because he's having a bit of a mare at the minute. I've full faith in him still,but if it goes another 3 or 4 games and we aren't winning any, the same mistakes are happening from the same players,he may completely have run out of ideas in the Prem. I'd never sack the bloke as hes done wonders,I couldn't. Thank god I'm not Deano Nobody would sack him, all we want is for him to pull his head out of his arse and recognise what has happened to our side, then sort it.
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Post by El Mel on Jan 21, 2018 11:47:07 GMT 1
Be careful what you wish for Melsmooth World peace and a draw against Liverpool suffice Tedward?
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Post by BottomLip on Jan 21, 2018 12:16:55 GMT 1
Even I know Kongolo is a major improvement on either Malone or Zanka... Its a bit baffling, I just hope Wagner has a little time out to reevaluate and find his marbles, because he's having a bit of a mare at the minute. I've full faith in him still,but if it goes another 3 or 4 games and we aren't winning any, the same mistakes are happening from the same players,he may completely have run out of ideas in the Prem. I'd never sack the bloke as hes done wonders,I couldn't. Thank god I'm not Deano Nobody would sack him, all we want is for him to pull his head out of his arse and recognise what has happened to our side, then sort it. I'm not saying they would,I'm merely saying I couldn't not for what hes done. But if we went winless until the end of the season and went down, winless say 6 or 7 games in.... Then someone has to. All ifs and buts,but statistics at Town show that loyalty only goes so far. Pereoanlly I think we will beat Liverpool and the board will start creaming again
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E4b
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Post by E4b on Jan 21, 2018 12:20:15 GMT 1
If Wagner rests players against Brum to improve performances he needs to give his head shake...because the last 4 games there were no performances. Has a team ever averaged 2 shots per match on target over a season? Woeful. It seems we paid £8 million for Malones left leg and we got the right for free....i am afraid it was over-priced. Watford was 35 days ago...seems like 35 years. Agree with this but at least Malone puts a shift in unlike many others.
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Post by York Terrier on Jan 21, 2018 12:40:41 GMT 1
If Wagner rests players against Brum to improve performances he needs to give his head shake...because the last 4 games there were no performances. Has a team ever averaged 2 shots per match on target over a season? Woeful. It seems we paid £8 million for Malones left leg and we got the right for free....i am afraid it was over-priced. Watford was 35 days ago...seems like 35 years. Agree with this but at least Malone puts a shift in unlike many others. Contrary to my last post offering full support to DW I have to say Malone is so far out of his depth it’s untrue I think he hides his first touch is poor not good in the air and probably our worst investment of all the players we have brought in
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2018 13:03:01 GMT 1
Hi Graham. I have no interest in antagonising you, but it has to be said you took the same stance and asked the same questions of Wagner in our promotion season when things got sticky and tough. You were proved wrong then. You’ve every right on such a forum as this to ask questions of the team, club, manager... but MAYBE it’s also us, the fans, who need to ask questions of ourselves at such times, too. If we begin to carp and moan and doubt en masse, doesn’t that, even in a tiny way, begin to undermine the manager and his players at a time when they are desperately seeking and wanting the utmost unity and support? I feel the guy has done enough (in little over two years at the club!) for us to afford him more respect than to be questioning his position after his first REALLY difficult patch in what is notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive in, especially when you are the poorest member of the group. If you think what is said on here and in the stands doesn’t eventually drip down through to the players and management, then I think you are wrong. You may, of course, NOT think that... in which case, why should we be putting the manager’s position up for discussion at all in what is such a difficult time for him? It really doesn’t help him or the club one bit. I'm a bit baffled by that final para....are we to believe that our players/management are only aware of how crap they are performing when fans draw it to their attention? The Premier League is "notoriously the hardest league in the world to survive" if you are a manager.....they fall like flies when they don't deliver. The manager's position being questioned is just par for the course amongst numerous sets of fans....it's nothing unique to us. And why shouldn't fans complain? Many pay for the privilege of watching their team, irrespective of whether the latter produce good performances/results, or crap. And the players/management trouser their wages, irrespective of whether....etc, etc. Complaining, or staying away, is about all the average fan has to offer in response to that crap.
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