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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 25, 2018 13:45:16 GMT 1
For what it's worth (And I know lots of people hang on my every word😁) I think it's far too early to form an opinion . We have had a difficult run of games to start. But there are a sequence of winnable matches between now and crimbo. If we are still bottom of the league at Xmas then Deano may have a decision to make... But.... The bedwetters just need to man up. 6 games in... I'm sure our manager and squad have a bit more backbone than some of the curmudgeonly cry babies on here.. Cheer up you miserable feckers 😁 one win in 10 league games. A pretty dire league record in 2018. How long is too long? One win in ten league games - never liked the use of this language to try and emphasise a point. Bit like our unbeaten league run under Clarke, it wasn't an unbeaten run. A clean slate is where we should start, so no wins in 6 (7 if you count the Cup game).
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 25, 2018 13:49:27 GMT 1
Read what I said bro. Mek an Informed decision at Xmas.. Don't piss thissen at the 1st sign of trouble... if that wer th case I'd av pissed misen long before now. Reyt Hang in there bro.. It'll all come art inT,wash 😁
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 25, 2018 13:51:16 GMT 1
Love all the labelling on this forum. We are either bedwetters or turdpolishers. Well I for one am very proud to be a Turd polisher. 💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 25, 2018 14:01:22 GMT 1
I've got bladder problems
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Post by detox on Sept 25, 2018 14:03:08 GMT 1
I suppose if you look at the games we've played so far...We expected absolutely nothing from man City, Chelsea and Leicester..and probably not much from Everton where we drew..so those 4 games we lost nothing that we expected in fact we likely gained a point.. Palace at home and Cardiff at home then..cardiff was a definite loss of the other 2 points , we should have gone at them and got the early goals to put the game to bed..fair enough, so that one game where we've flunked..Palace then, they beat us here last season but we were better this time, but missed chances and unlucky perhaps..so maybe a point lost there. But those two games are the only ones where we 'lost' something I reckon, and in both games we were unfortunate, especially against palace.. maybe we are 2 points short of where we should have been had we got the results we 'expected' to get beforehand..
It's not really a crisis then...Cardiff was bad, Palace was unlucky..Everton was a bonus, the rest as expected. ?
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Post by drumriggend on Sept 25, 2018 14:10:49 GMT 1
I've got bladder problems Pissy pants😜
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Post by royrace on Sept 25, 2018 14:11:05 GMT 1
Maybe Tommy Smith needs to give a few of them a kick up the arse. A bit tricky when you cant even make the bench and for some unknown reason Flo is getting picked ahead of you, I like to think its because he shows more in training rather than because we spent cash on him but all he's showing on the pitch in the PL atm is that he isn't good enough. I'd get Tommy back in, we need more than just pace in that position.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 25, 2018 14:16:36 GMT 1
M So based on our performances against chelsea Cardiff and palace you can say that there is some kind of mental malaise within the camp ? I’m sorry but I’m laughing out loud here Laugh out loud all you want but having watched all 3 home games live and all 3 away games on TV I believe that the body language, facial expressions etc. indicate all is not well. The players look short of confidence and emotional strength. What, pray tell, is the difference between saying this and saying "they look well up for it" or "they look confident"? I'll tell you, there is no difference. Laugh out loud all you like. Watch LDP miss that chance on Saturday, and view his facial expression afterwards. It's not the face of a man who is angry with himself, or who thinks "I'll score the next one". He looked broken. If we had won the last two games of football you wouldn’t be thinking it or starting threads like this .. that’s the reality .
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 14:18:10 GMT 1
Laugh out loud all you want but having watched all 3 home games live and all 3 away games on TV I believe that the body language, facial expressions etc. indicate all is not well. The players look short of confidence and emotional strength. What, pray tell, is the difference between saying this and saying "they look well up for it" or "they look confident"? I'll tell you, there is no difference. Laugh out loud all you like. Watch LDP miss that chance on Saturday, and view his facial expression afterwards. It's not the face of a man who is angry with himself, or who thinks "I'll score the next one". He looked broken. If we had won the last two games of football you wouldn’t be thinking it or starting threads like this .. that’s the reality . But we didn't
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 25, 2018 14:21:34 GMT 1
If we had won the last two games of football you wouldn’t be thinking it or starting threads like this .. that’s the reality . But we didn't Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 25, 2018 14:27:09 GMT 1
I am happily behind Wagner and thoroughly hope he turns it around.
He is the best Coach to have managed Town in my lifetime, OUR current struggles are entirely as a direct consequence of the SUCCESS he has brought to the club.
Last season, we had one of the weakest squads in the division and I believe the PL has fewer weak teams this time around.
We have a Chairman who has led us with financial prudence that means that the relegation escape artists like Allardyce will never be attracted to us as DH will not throw money at the problem in January. His philosophy of purchasing potential will not change and with this in mind I don't believe there is a manager out there who could outcoach Wagner who would come to Town.
If our sojourn to the PL is a 2 year stint then so be it - BUT what is crucial though is that we use the monies to retain relative competitiveness at Championship level - throwing silly money at it through transfers and managerial changes could jeopardise that position and we could end up in freefall as we did in the 70's and many clubs (L666s, Sadford, Pompey, Swindon and Sunderand amongst others) have done since.
I think to compare Wagner with some of his precedessors is not valid - No other Town boss has ever overachieved in DH's time here. Grayson, the only other with a promotion on his CV never really bought into the Town philosophy and after his departure had his commitment/hours worked/dedication to the job questioned by DH at a public forum.
I don't think anyone can accuse DW of a similar dereliction of duty.
DH has stated that he saw us a Championship club and Grayson's poor run meant we were very likely going to lose that status which is why IMO he was rightly sacked.
When Wagner arrived I hoped we would become a stronger Championship club that would flirt with promotion in good years and survive in the Championship in poor seasons.
I think DW has earned DH's loyalty and if that means unsackability then so be it. If Wagner leaves at the end of the season if we are relegated then I won't hold a grudge - He knows these players better than any manager we can afford to attract and I believe he will get the best out of them and that includes Diakhaby and Mbenza who have been ridiculously written off by some after 231 and 34 minutes respectively of PL football.
Many players were crap at Town for much longer before coming good and they didn't have the excuse of moving to a different country with a new langugae to learn.
I also think Sobhi will be decent when fit and able to contribute more than his 6 minutes thus far.
If these players' best is unable to save us from relegation then changing DW would be a pointless exercise.
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Post by royrace on Sept 25, 2018 14:33:21 GMT 1
Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there I think if I were a Town player and I came back to pre season knowing that we'd moved on Ince and a couple of fringe lads I'd be looking forward to seeing what the new signings were like, I'd prob be ready for having to fight for my place and maybe worried they'd take my place. If when I saw them on the training pitch I realised none of them were good enough to start I think be a little worried and maybe wonder what kind of club I was playing for (especially if I'd just signed for big bucks from Monaco). I'd be thinking we only stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and now we've sold Ince (one of, if not our best winger) and bought a load of old shyte not good enough to start. I think that may be a little disconcerting for the players, same as it is the fans but they see these players week in week out and will really know if it's gonna work out. I think its naive not to think the players might be a little bit lacking in confidence in the squad as a whole and not just themselves. Every pro footballer will tell you new signings give the squad a lift, if you're signing ones that aren't good enough or worse than you had maybe it has the opposite effect. Hopefully its not the case and they are just looking forward to the day the new boys can affect games but they aren't half taking some time getting up to speed if that's the case!
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 25, 2018 14:35:46 GMT 1
Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there I think if I were a Town player and I came back to pre season knowing that we'd moved on Ince and a couple of fringe lads I'd be looking forward to seeing what the new signings were like, I'd prob be ready for having to fight for my place and maybe worried they'd take my place. If when I saw them on the training pitch I realised none of them were good enough to start I think be a little worried and maybe wonder what kind of club I was playing for (especially if I'd just signed for big bucks from Monaco). I'd be thinking we only stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and now we've sold Ince (one of, if not our best winger) and bought a load of old shyte not good enough to start. I think that may be a little disconcerting for the players, same as it is the fans but they see these players week in week out and will really know if it's gonna work out. I think its naive not to think the players might be a little bit lacking in confidence in the squad as a whole and not just themselves. Every pro footballer will tell you new signings give the squad a lift, if you're signing ones that aren't good enough or worse than you had maybe it has the opposite effect. Hopefully its not the case and they are just looking forward to the day the new boys can affect games but they aren't half taking some time getting up to speed if that's the case! I love ( actually detest) how you are writing off players who have played minutes for the club . If you were a Norwich fan you’d have written off Maddison when he was loaned out to cov and Aberdeen . This place is a fucking joke .
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Post by paddockterrier on Sept 25, 2018 14:45:38 GMT 1
If he is unsackable it’s not a problem for me. We’ve got the most successful manager I’ve seen at Town, if we do go down I’d love to see suggestions of a better option. Oh and so far as putting your tin hat on for the happy clappers Grim, are you sure you haven’t slipped into the modern day knee jerk fan?
The way some have reacted to the poor start makes me think we deserve to revert back to league one. Maybe, but I don't think so - I've thought long and hard about it since the Cardiff game - there is something intangible that has changed and all I'm doing here is thinking aloud. I don't want him gone. I want him back. It's really hard to see where our next points are coming from at the moment and it's the first time during his tenure I've felt that way. I still feel he can come good but we need something to kick-start things. I just wonder how long we can keep saying "no rub of the green" and "fine margins" etc... I'd argue that the second statement explains the first rather than the other way around. We aren't doing as well as we were last year when we had a good start. I'd say that's the main thing that is different. Not sure it's that intangible. I don't think we're doing poorly because something has changed, I think the atmosphere has changed because we're doing poorly. If we'd had 2 points at this stage last season I don't think it would have taken many more games before people were saying the same sorts of things.
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Post by Sio on Sept 25, 2018 14:52:27 GMT 1
Maybe, but I don't think so - I've thought long and hard about it since the Cardiff game - there is something intangible that has changed and all I'm doing here is thinking aloud. I don't want him gone. I want him back. It's really hard to see where our next points are coming from at the moment and it's the first time during his tenure I've felt that way. I still feel he can come good but we need something to kick-start things. I just wonder how long we can keep saying "no rub of the green" and "fine margins" etc... I'd argue that the second statement explains the first rather than the other way around. We aren't doing as well as we were last year when we had a good start. I'd say that's the main thing that is different. Not sure it's that intangible. I don't think we're doing poorly because something has changed, I think the atmosphere has changed because we're doing poorly. If we'd had 2 points at this stage last season I don't think it would have taken many more games before people were saying the same sorts of things. Not sure this is true. Last season we had almost zero expectation because there was no precedent - had we started the season like this year, it'd have been a case of 'oh well, maybe we're just not up to it'. But we didn't - we started well and continued to put in a decent number of performances across the season with arguably a weaker side than we have now. We've now entered a new season having lost no key personnel, and 'strengthening' with multi-million-pound signings, yet suddenly the team look completely out of their depth and seemingly unable to even threaten to win a game. I'm not buying this 'second season syndrome' stuff - we've either changed our approach or somehow weakened since last season, and it's impacting on both our performances and results. The Stoke game, whilst only a cup match, was a big indicator for me. We could barely even threaten a now Championship side, and got embarrassed in the process. We are completely not up to winning football games at the moment and something has to change.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Sept 25, 2018 14:55:50 GMT 1
Laugh out loud all you want but having watched all 3 home games live and all 3 away games on TV I believe that the body language, facial expressions etc. indicate all is not well. The players look short of confidence and emotional strength. What, pray tell, is the difference between saying this and saying "they look well up for it" or "they look confident"? I'll tell you, there is no difference. Laugh out loud all you like. Watch LDP miss that chance on Saturday, and view his facial expression afterwards. It's not the face of a man who is angry with himself, or who thinks "I'll score the next one". He looked broken. If we had won the last two games of football you wouldn’t be thinking it or starting threads like this .. that’s the reality . Ifs and buts won't keep us up. That's the reality.
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Post by insooth on Sept 25, 2018 14:56:26 GMT 1
Am I the only one who had to Google what malaise meant? Every day is a school day. Even in the ecole!
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Sept 25, 2018 14:56:39 GMT 1
I'd argue that the second statement explains the first rather than the other way around. We aren't doing as well as we were last year when we had a good start. I'd say that's the main thing that is different. Not sure it's that intangible. I don't think we're doing poorly because something has changed, I think the atmosphere has changed because we're doing poorly. If we'd had 2 points at this stage last season I don't think it would have taken many more games before people were saying the same sorts of things. Not sure this is true. Last season we had almost zero expectation because there was no precedent - had we started the season like this year, it'd have been a case of 'oh well, maybe we're just not up to it'. But we didn't - we started well and continued to put in a decent number of performances across the season with arguably a weaker side than we have now. We've now entered a new season having lost no key personnel, and 'strengthening' with multi-million-pound signings, yet suddenly the team look completely out of their depth and seemingly unable to even threaten to win a game. I'm not buying this 'second season syndrome' stuff - we've either changed our approach or somehow weakened since last season, and it's impacting on both our performances and results. The Stoke game, whilst only a cup match, was a big indicator for me. We could barely even threaten a now Championship side, and got embarrassed in the process. We are completely not up to winning football games at the moment and something has to change. I would hope that Wagner can bring the change. We are a shadow of the side that got promoted at this moment in time..
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Post by insooth on Sept 25, 2018 15:02:52 GMT 1
Laugh out loud all you want but having watched all 3 home games live and all 3 away games on TV I believe that the body language, facial expressions etc. indicate all is not well. The players look short of confidence and emotional strength. What, pray tell, is the difference between saying this and saying "they look well up for it" or "they look confident"? I'll tell you, there is no difference. Laugh out loud all you like. Watch LDP miss that chance on Saturday, and view his facial expression afterwards. It's not the face of a man who is angry with himself, or who thinks "I'll score the next one". He looked broken. I'm glad someone else has noticed our players and their body language is not right. Is something upsetting the camp? Did not Danny Murphy imply that along those lines on saturday night?
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Sept 25, 2018 15:06:09 GMT 1
I'm glad someone else has noticed our players and their body language is not right. Is something upsetting the camp? Did not Danny Murphy imply that along those lines on saturday night? We've lost what I belivee that Australians would call our "spunk".
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Post by royrace on Sept 25, 2018 15:12:08 GMT 1
I think if I were a Town player and I came back to pre season knowing that we'd moved on Ince and a couple of fringe lads I'd be looking forward to seeing what the new signings were like, I'd prob be ready for having to fight for my place and maybe worried they'd take my place. If when I saw them on the training pitch I realised none of them were good enough to start I think be a little worried and maybe wonder what kind of club I was playing for (especially if I'd just signed for big bucks from Monaco). I'd be thinking we only stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and now we've sold Ince (one of, if not our best winger) and bought a load of old shyte not good enough to start. I think that may be a little disconcerting for the players, same as it is the fans but they see these players week in week out and will really know if it's gonna work out. I think its naive not to think the players might be a little bit lacking in confidence in the squad as a whole and not just themselves. Every pro footballer will tell you new signings give the squad a lift, if you're signing ones that aren't good enough or worse than you had maybe it has the opposite effect. Hopefully its not the case and they are just looking forward to the day the new boys can affect games but they aren't half taking some time getting up to speed if that's the case! I love ( actually detest) how you are writing off players who have played minutes for the club . If you were a Norwich fan you’d have written off Maddison when he was loaned out to cov and Aberdeen . This place is a fucking joke . Not writing them off but I think even the most optimistic of fans must now be questioning why we didn't buy a single player capable of starting a premier league match, we're nearly in October! Especially since we've sold a regular started in the exact same position as the one we needed to strengthen! Not sure why anybody would pretend the transfer window has been anything else but a disaster. Your Maddison comparison is totally irrelevant. Any of the player's we've bought may come good but the fact is we need them now and NONE of them are ready, Sobhi is injured granted, which obviously cant be helped.
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Post by dugnet on Sept 25, 2018 15:39:25 GMT 1
Am I the only one who had to Google what malaise meant? Great with frites I understand
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Post by paddockterrier on Sept 25, 2018 16:03:09 GMT 1
I'd argue that the second statement explains the first rather than the other way around. We aren't doing as well as we were last year when we had a good start. I'd say that's the main thing that is different. Not sure it's that intangible. I don't think we're doing poorly because something has changed, I think the atmosphere has changed because we're doing poorly. If we'd had 2 points at this stage last season I don't think it would have taken many more games before people were saying the same sorts of things. Not sure this is true. Last season we had almost zero expectation because there was no precedent - had we started the season like this year, it'd have been a case of 'oh well, maybe we're just not up to it'. But we didn't - we started well and continued to put in a decent number of performances across the season with arguably a weaker side than we have now. We've now entered a new season having lost no key personnel, and 'strengthening' with multi-million-pound signings, yet suddenly the team look completely out of their depth and seemingly unable to even threaten to win a game. I'm not buying this 'second season syndrome' stuff - we've either changed our approach or somehow weakened since last season, and it's impacting on both our performances and results. The Stoke game, whilst only a cup match, was a big indicator for me. We could barely even threaten a now Championship side, and got embarrassed in the process. We are completely not up to winning football games at the moment and something has to change. I take your points, but I still think that the issue is results rather than something 'intangible' that's changed or a malaise at the club. The performances haven't all been that bad or much different to a number of performances last season - we were worse against Palace (h) and Everton (a) last season. We only won one of our last 10 games (Watford at home) to stay up and we've continued that form into this season. It may be that we're a bit weaker as a result of the players we've bought and sold - time will tell on that I suppose.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Sept 25, 2018 16:09:01 GMT 1
Not sure this is true. Last season we had almost zero expectation because there was no precedent - had we started the season like this year, it'd have been a case of 'oh well, maybe we're just not up to it'. But we didn't - we started well and continued to put in a decent number of performances across the season with arguably a weaker side than we have now. We've now entered a new season having lost no key personnel, and 'strengthening' with multi-million-pound signings, yet suddenly the team look completely out of their depth and seemingly unable to even threaten to win a game. I'm not buying this 'second season syndrome' stuff - we've either changed our approach or somehow weakened since last season, and it's impacting on both our performances and results. The Stoke game, whilst only a cup match, was a big indicator for me. We could barely even threaten a now Championship side, and got embarrassed in the process. We are completely not up to winning football games at the moment and something has to change. I take your points, but I still think that the issue is results rather than something 'intangible' that's changed or a malaise at the club. The performances haven't all been that bad or much different to a number of performances last season - we were worse against Palace (h) and Everton (a) last season. We only won one of our last 10 games (Watford at home) to stay up and we've continued that form into this season. It may be that we're a bit weaker as a result of the players we've bought and sold - time will tell on that I suppose. Something clearly isn't right. I know it might sound a bit far fetched but body language is an easy thing to pick up on. Our body language is very very poor.
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Post by irverino on Sept 25, 2018 16:13:50 GMT 1
Lets see where we are 1st January after Burnley home game, 4 top 'six' teams in 1st nine rounds was always going to be tough, after Liverpool we have six 'winnable' home games, maybe DW should look at his 1st home game v (top of table) Boro, when he got a very average team to play awesome that day, the belief after went round the whole stadium...lets start again this Saturday Dave!
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Post by Town Duppy on Sept 25, 2018 16:32:27 GMT 1
Am I the only one who had to Google what malaise meant? Egg malaise is my fave.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 16:47:36 GMT 1
He's not unsackable though is he? What if Wagner has a shit in Dean's top drawer in his office? The drawer where he keeps his Cuban cigars? Or he joins Ted and Nick for a threesome in the Kilner Bank bogs at half time v Spurs? Or if he slips one of the players wives a length? Or if he starts betting on us to lose? Or bribes a ref? Or stars in a beastiality, snuff movie involving Julian Winter, Mr Tumble and Snorbits the dog?
I reckon if he does all of those things, he might get the sack, or a verbal warning at least.
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Post by Captainslapper on Sept 25, 2018 16:48:09 GMT 1
Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there Im generally pretty positive but the reality is , this isn;t a recent thing. This is one win in sixteen now! And only 6 goals in those 16 games! Thats a horrendous run which would have seen any other manager in this division out of a job. I want to see wagner turn this round but the time is coming where you have to either act, or just accept we are almost certainly going to go down, and probably in a bad way.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Sept 25, 2018 17:17:05 GMT 1
Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there Im generally pretty positive but the reality is , this isn;t a recent thing. This is one win in sixteen now! And only 6 goals in those 16 games! Thats a horrendous run which would have seen any other manager in this division out of a job. I want to see wagner turn this round but the time is coming where you have to either act, or just accept we are almost certainly going to go down, and probably in a bad way. This is why there are so many negative posts and threads, the dreadful run we are on, nothing wrong with getting a point across but the same story over and over becomes tiring. You are bang on the money though and this is a very weird feeling, being poor in the best league in the world, it is like finding out you have won the lottery just as you are about to have a car crash.
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Post by willo on Sept 25, 2018 17:26:47 GMT 1
Of course ... but we lose a couple of games and folk are reading into the psyche of the players etc in a way that they wouldn’t if we won .. winning breeds confidence and we are lower on confidence than we would be having won the last two .. that’s how it works rightly or wrongly .. we need a win to hopefully get going .. we look like a relegation squad at present . But let’s not see things that aren’t there I think if I were a Town player and I came back to pre season knowing that we'd moved on Ince and a couple of fringe lads I'd be looking forward to seeing what the new signings were like, I'd prob be ready for having to fight for my place and maybe worried they'd take my place. If when I saw them on the training pitch I realised none of them were good enough to start I think be a little worried and maybe wonder what kind of club I was playing for (especially if I'd just signed for big bucks from Monaco). I'd be thinking we only stayed up by the skin of our teeth last season and now we've sold Ince (one of, if not our best winger) and bought a load of old shyte not good enough to start. I think that may be a little disconcerting for the players, same as it is the fans but they see these players week in week out and will really know if it's gonna work out. I think its naive not to think the players might be a little bit lacking in confidence in the squad as a whole and not just themselves. Every pro footballer will tell you new signings give the squad a lift, if you're signing ones that aren't good enough or worse than you had maybe it has the opposite effect. Hopefully its not the case and they are just looking forward to the day the new boys can affect games but they aren't half taking some time getting up to speed if that's the case! Have to disagree re Ince. Watched enough of him last season to see he isn’t PL standard. Too early to say if the 2 new lads we brought in during the summer will be better.
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