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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 12:24:23 GMT 1
If you cant see that Ince was far superior to Kachunga in that position then I can only assume you either don't see many games, or you're a very poor judge of a player. I'm a fan of Kachunga but Ince did far better in that role and has way more ability. Funnily enough that's why Wagner picked him over Kachunga all season. I wish Kachunga was good enough to miss the chances Ince did, fact is he hasn't even had a sniff of a goal. Ince also started on the left and as a number ten. Big player to let go when you haven't replaced him. Stupid decision. Ince started more games because Kachunga was injured for most of the season. Ince lost so much confidence that he couldn't even bring himself to run at a defender, he would just take the easy option of a pass inside. Atleast Kachunga runs the line cuts back and lays it off for the full back to cross in a relatively decent position I saw every appearance from Ince last season and he was a waste of space. Neither he or Kachunga are consistently good enough at this level. Ince has had plenty of goes at it and ended up back in the Championship everytime. Pritchard will likely be the same OK, let me keep it really simple. Ince is a better player than Kachunga. True or false?
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Sept 26, 2018 12:28:32 GMT 1
Ah the old he was good for the team, did lots of unseen work bla bla bla. All players in a Wagner side work their bollocks off. Kachunga can do exactly what Ince did for us defensively and be equally as ineffective going forward so id hardly say we're weaker. Ince missed tons of chances last season and created very few for others. He isn't missed and he's hardly setting the Championship alight If you cant see that Ince was far superior to Kachunga in that position then I can only assume you either don't see many games, or you're a very poor judge of a player. I'm a fan of Kachunga but Ince did far better in that role and has way more ability. Funnily enough that's why Wagner picked him over Kachunga all season. I wish Kachunga was good enough to miss the chances Ince did, fact is he hasn't even had a sniff of a goal. Ince also started on the left and as a number ten. Big player to let go when you haven't replaced him. Stupid decision. At the risk of perpetuating one of these cyclical arguments that go nowhere and just waste time.... - Kachunga was injured for quite a bit of last season - Pedantic note, but he had a good chance in the first half on Saturday from a cross. He ballsed it up as Ince ballsed a few up last season - Ince has more ability than Kachunga but he was not good enough for us last season. Poor first touch, not enough pace or skill to beat a man or get his shot off. Dont think he contributed an assist all season. - Belief is probably an issue with both of them at this level - Stoke offered us £12m for Ince and we’d be fools to turn that down - We have replaced Ince with 2 wingers, 3 including Sobhi. They’re not looking good at the moment but it’s early days and to day we haven’t replaced him is just wrong
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Sept 26, 2018 12:30:00 GMT 1
Ince started more games because Kachunga was injured for most of the season. Ince lost so much confidence that he couldn't even bring himself to run at a defender, he would just take the easy option of a pass inside. Atleast Kachunga runs the line cuts back and lays it off for the full back to cross in a relatively decent position I saw every appearance from Ince last season and he was a waste of space. Neither he or Kachunga are consistently good enough at this level. Ince has had plenty of goes at it and ended up back in the Championship everytime. Pritchard will likely be the same OK, let me keep it really simple. Ince is a better player than Kachunga. True or false? False I think they're very similar at this level and in 2016/17 Kachunga scored 12 and Ince 14. That was Kachunga's first season in English football Think they got 2 goals each last season and Kachunga played far less games Both good Championship players but poor Premier League players
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 12:31:29 GMT 1
OK, let me keep it really simple. Ince is a better player than Kachunga. True or false? False I think they're very similar at this level and in 2016/17 Kachunga scored 12 and Ince 14. That was Kachunga's first season in English football Think they got 2 goals each last season and Kachunga played far less games Both good Championship players but poor Premier League players OK
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 12:47:20 GMT 1
If you cant see that Ince was far superior to Kachunga in that position then I can only assume you either don't see many games, or you're a very poor judge of a player. I'm a fan of Kachunga but Ince did far better in that role and has way more ability. Funnily enough that's why Wagner picked him over Kachunga all season. I wish Kachunga was good enough to miss the chances Ince did, fact is he hasn't even had a sniff of a goal. Ince also started on the left and as a number ten. Big player to let go when you haven't replaced him. Stupid decision. At the risk of perpetuating one of these cyclical arguments that go nowhere and just waste time.... - Kachunga was injured for quite a bit of last season - Pedantic note, but he had a good chance in the first half on Saturday from a cross. He ballsed it up as Ince ballsed a few up last season - Ince has more ability than Kachunga but he was not good enough for us last season. Poor first touch, not enough pace or skill to beat a man or get his shot off. Dont think he contributed an assist all season. - Belief is probably an issue with both of them at this level - Stoke offered us £12m for Ince and we’d be fools to turn that down - We have replaced Ince with 2 wingers, 3 including Sobhi. They’re not looking good at the moment but it’s early days and to day we haven’t replaced him is just wrong True, Kacha did miss a sitter at the weekend and was injured a lot last season. Ince didn't set the league on fire and seemed low on confidence but still contributed a LOT and his techincal ability helped our game significantly even though he wasn't beating players for fun and finding the top corner with his shots. Fools to turn down £12M for a valuable first team player who can play multiple positions and was a known quantity to us and also one of the best players in the championship for the last 5 seasons? I don't think so. Not like his value was suddenly going to plummet! He would have also come in really handy next season it seems. What's foolish is replacing him with £23M worth of crap, none of whom are capable of starting a game for us! All 3 players not rated by fans of their previous clubs, the performances of the one who has been deemed good enough so far have been described as embarrassing! So that's 'embarrassing' vs not 'quite good enough' and that's the only one good enough to start. Hopefully Sobhi will prove his worth when fit and prove his doubters wrong at Stoke who to a man thought he was crap. Chouppa Moting is the Stoke player we should have gone for although seems he turned us down. Selling him only made sense if he was going to be replaced with proven quality, we've come nowhere near doing that, nowhere near. Bear in mind its not like the old days where we desperately need to sell players to balance the books, it was obviously done to enable him to be replaced with better quality. It was a big mistake IMO. I suspect we had our eye on better players than the ones we ended up with but if that's the case the Ince deal should have been tied to our deal.
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Post by mids on Sept 26, 2018 13:36:54 GMT 1
At the risk of perpetuating one of these cyclical arguments that go nowhere and just waste time.... - Kachunga was injured for quite a bit of last season - Pedantic note, but he had a good chance in the first half on Saturday from a cross. He ballsed it up as Ince ballsed a few up last season - Ince has more ability than Kachunga but he was not good enough for us last season. Poor first touch, not enough pace or skill to beat a man or get his shot off. Dont think he contributed an assist all season. - Belief is probably an issue with both of them at this level - Stoke offered us £12m for Ince and we’d be fools to turn that down - We have replaced Ince with 2 wingers, 3 including Sobhi. They’re not looking good at the moment but it’s early days and to day we haven’t replaced him is just wrong True, Kacha did miss a sitter at the weekend and was injured a lot last season. Ince didn't set the league on fire and seemed low on confidence but still contributed a LOT and his techincal ability helped our game significantly even though he wasn't beating players for fun and finding the top corner with his shots. Fools to turn down £12M for a valuable first team player who can play multiple positions and was a known quantity to us and also one of the best players in the championship for the last 5 seasons? I don't think so. Not like his value was suddenly going to plummet! He would have also come in really handy next season it seems. What's foolish is replacing him with £23M worth of crap, none of whom are capable of starting a game for us! All 3 players not rated by fans of their previous clubs, the performances of the one who has been deemed good enough so far have been described as embarrassing! So that's 'embarrassing' vs not 'quite good enough' and that's the only one good enough to start. Hopefully Sobhi will prove his worth when fit and prove his doubters wrong at Stoke who to a man thought he was crap. Chouppa Moting is the Stoke player we should have gone for although seems he turned us down. Selling him only made sense if he was going to be replaced with proven quality, we've come nowhere near doing that, nowhere near. Bear in mind its not like the old days where we desperately need to sell players to balance the books, it was obviously done to enable him to be replaced with better quality. It was a big mistake IMO. I suspect we had our eye on better players than the ones we ended up with but if that's the case the Ince deal should have been tied to our deal. Six league games in, and players who are new to the club, and the system, are written off as "£23m worth of crap". Pitiful. It's to be hoped Dean, Wagner, and the players have more backbone than some folk wittering on here. I suspect we're safe in that regard. Clearly things haven't gone to plan but we've played 2 massive clubs where everyone with any sense had dismissed the results in advance. That's four league games we've played of any consequence. In all those games we've created chances, scored a few, but made some simple errors and wrong decisions. Things may change, but maybe they won't. Whatever happens we'll still have a team to watch next season in whatever division we're in. It's hardly the end of the world. It's not that long since plenty people were saying "I wish we (Town) could have just one season in the Premier League, just one"....we've had two so far, and who knows it may continue a bit longer still. God knows what all the miseries will moan about then!!
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Sept 26, 2018 14:43:34 GMT 1
Yeah I can’t for the life of me think why Choupa Mouting would choose to go to Paris Saint Germain over Huddersfield Town.
Sums up some of the addled thinking on here.....
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Post by teddytheterrier on Sept 26, 2018 15:12:54 GMT 1
They aren't crap lol, they arent ready and will come good. Probably when they don't play for us.
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 16:56:21 GMT 1
Yeah I can’t for the life of me think why Choupa Mouting would choose to go to Paris Saint Germain over Huddersfield Town. Sums of some of the addled thinking on here..... I think its common knowledge we enquired about Choupo-Moting and potentially tried to sign him, doesn't surprise me as he's a Wagner type of player. So who's thinking is addled? Wagners, Deans, mine? If you're going to slag people's opinions off at least give it a little bit of thought; otherwise you end up looking stupid.
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 17:04:56 GMT 1
True, Kacha did miss a sitter at the weekend and was injured a lot last season. Ince didn't set the league on fire and seemed low on confidence but still contributed a LOT and his techincal ability helped our game significantly even though he wasn't beating players for fun and finding the top corner with his shots. Fools to turn down £12M for a valuable first team player who can play multiple positions and was a known quantity to us and also one of the best players in the championship for the last 5 seasons? I don't think so. Not like his value was suddenly going to plummet! He would have also come in really handy next season it seems. What's foolish is replacing him with £23M worth of crap, none of whom are capable of starting a game for us! All 3 players not rated by fans of their previous clubs, the performances of the one who has been deemed good enough so far have been described as embarrassing! So that's 'embarrassing' vs not 'quite good enough' and that's the only one good enough to start. Hopefully Sobhi will prove his worth when fit and prove his doubters wrong at Stoke who to a man thought he was crap. Chouppa Moting is the Stoke player we should have gone for although seems he turned us down. Selling him only made sense if he was going to be replaced with proven quality, we've come nowhere near doing that, nowhere near. Bear in mind its not like the old days where we desperately need to sell players to balance the books, it was obviously done to enable him to be replaced with better quality. It was a big mistake IMO. I suspect we had our eye on better players than the ones we ended up with but if that's the case the Ince deal should have been tied to our deal. Six league games in, and players who are new to the club, and the system, are written off as "£23m worth of crap". Pitiful. It's to be hoped Dean, Wagner, and the players have more backbone than some folk wittering on here. I suspect we're safe in that regard. Clearly things haven't gone to plan but we've played 2 massive clubs where everyone with any sense had dismissed the results in advance. That's four league games we've played of any consequence. In all those games we've created chances, scored a few, but made some simple errors and wrong decisions. Things may change, but maybe they won't. Whatever happens we'll still have a team to watch next season in whatever division we're in. It's hardly the end of the world. It's not that long since plenty people were saying "I wish we (Town) could have just one season in the Premier League, just one"....we've had two so far, and who knows it may continue a bit longer still. God knows what all the miseries will moan about then!! What the hell has backbone got to do with drawing understandable conclusions about the quality of our new signings FFS? You don't half come out with some shyte.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Sept 26, 2018 17:08:15 GMT 1
What the hell has backbone got to do with drawing understandable conclusions about the quality of our new signings FFS? You don't half come out with some shyte. How can you understandably draw a conclusion on the quality of our new signings? Presuming you have watched every minute of every game i would make that, what, a couple of hours football in total these guys have played. But you have concluded they are shit?
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Sept 26, 2018 17:25:10 GMT 1
Yeah I can’t for the life of me think why Choupa Mouting would choose to go to Paris Saint Germain over Huddersfield Town. Sums of some of the addled thinking on here..... I think its common knowledge we enquired about Choupo-Moting and potentially tried to sign him, doesn't surprise me as he's a Wagner type of player. So who's thinking is addled? Wagners, Deans, mine? If you're going to slag people's opinions off at least give it a little bit of thought; otherwise you end up looking stupid. "Chouppa Moting is the Stoke player we should have gone for" you originally said. I pointed out that he went to PSG. You reply "I think its common knowledge we enquired about Choupo-Moting and potentially tried to sign him" If that is true then we did try and sign him. So your second point contradicts your first point. You're either a bit slow upstairs or just write lots of words without thinking. Plenty of that on here at the moment which is making the whole board a bit of a shit show.
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 17:59:54 GMT 1
I think its common knowledge we enquired about Choupo-Moting and potentially tried to sign him, doesn't surprise me as he's a Wagner type of player. So who's thinking is addled? Wagners, Deans, mine? If you're going to slag people's opinions off at least give it a little bit of thought; otherwise you end up looking stupid. "Chouppa Moting is the Stoke player we should have gone for" you originally said. I pointed out that he went to PSG. You reply "I think its common knowledge we enquired about Choupo-Moting and potentially tried to sign him" If that is true then we did try and sign him. So your second point contradicts your first point. You're either a bit slow upstairs or just write lots of words without thinking. Plenty of that on here at the moment which is making the whole board a bit of a shit show. Your post re PSG was obviously insinuating we had no chance with Choupo-Moting, I was saying it was the type of player we should have signed, you said that was addled thinking which seems odd and also insulting. Now I see you are saying I'm slow upstairs and/or cant write properly so at least you're consistent Neither of us has any idea why we didn't sign him, maybe we had no chance, maybe we didn't try hard enough, maybe he was genuinely holding out for PSG. My original point being perhaps we could have invested more in trying to land Choupo-Moting. I don't think transfer dealings are black and white and it seems like we missed out on a fair few players, maybe it couldn't be helped, maybe we could have done better. Who knows. Not really addled thinking is it.
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 18:06:22 GMT 1
What the hell has backbone got to do with drawing understandable conclusions about the quality of our new signings FFS? You don't half come out with some shyte. How can you understandably draw a conclusion on the quality of our new signings? Presuming you have watched every minute of every game i would make that, what, a couple of hours football in total these guys have played. But you have concluded they are shit? No, I've concluded that David Wagner, who's opinion I obviously respect, has deemed them not good/fit/suitable enough to start for Town in the PL. For that reason, understandably, I have concluded they are lacking in the quality we needed. I've seen Diakabe with my own eyes and concluded he isn't good enough to be a PL starter. They may come good, I really hope they do, but we needed players ready in August, especially when they are replacing one we already sold. Struggling to see how people can see it differently TBH.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 18:23:22 GMT 1
How can you understandably draw a conclusion on the quality of our new signings? Presuming you have watched every minute of every game i would make that, what, a couple of hours football in total these guys have played. But you have concluded they are shit? No, I've concluded that David Wagner, who's opinion I obviously respect, has deemed them not good/fit/suitable enough to start for Town in the PL. For that reason, understandably, I have concluded they are lacking in the quality we needed. I've seen Diakabe with my own eyes and concluded he isn't good enough to be a PL starter. They may come good, I really hope they do, but we needed players ready in August, especially when they are replacing one we already sold. Struggling to see how people can see it differently TBH. How many minutes had Hefele played at this stage of our promotion season? It was about this stage last season that’s Depoitre got his first start. Wagner is a good man manager and will introduce players to the side as he sees appropriate. Some are thrown straight in, others are eased in. Young lads signed from France are likely to need more easing in, we may have seen more of Sobhi had he been fit. If we’d had a decent start and the new signings had played the same minutes no one would be batting an eyelid.
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 18:39:10 GMT 1
No, I've concluded that David Wagner, who's opinion I obviously respect, has deemed them not good/fit/suitable enough to start for Town in the PL. For that reason, understandably, I have concluded they are lacking in the quality we needed. I've seen Diakabe with my own eyes and concluded he isn't good enough to be a PL starter. They may come good, I really hope they do, but we needed players ready in August, especially when they are replacing one we already sold. Struggling to see how people can see it differently TBH. How many minutes had Hefele played at this stage of our promotion season? It was about this stage last season that’s Depoitre got his first start. Wagner is a good man manager and will introduce players to the side as he sees appropriate. Some are thrown straight in, others are eased in. Young lads signed from France are likely to need more easing in, we may have seen more of Sobhi had he been fit. If we’d had a decent start and the new signings had played the same minutes no one would be batting an eyelid. I think its fair to say eye lids would be batted at any club who sold one regular starter and bought 5(?) new players none of whom started the first seven games, particularly if it was so obvious the previous season the squad was low on quality and survived by the skin of it's teeth. I think we'd seen and heard enough about LDP and Hef to give confidence they had something about them before they were introduced. I dont get that with this crop but I agree there is still time. I expect Sobhi would have been involved by now if fit based on the fact he played games for Stoke last season in this league.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 26, 2018 19:14:33 GMT 1
Roll on Saturday you miserable gits...
Any psychologists just browsing for research material will stumble across this and think they've hit the jackpot... 😁
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E4b
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by E4b on Sept 26, 2018 19:53:06 GMT 1
If you cant see that Ince was far superior to Kachunga in that position then I can only assume you either don't see many games, or you're a very poor judge of a player. I'm a fan of Kachunga but Ince did far better in that role and has way more ability. Funnily enough that's why Wagner picked him over Kachunga all season. I wish Kachunga was good enough to miss the chances Ince did, fact is he hasn't even had a sniff of a goal. Ince also started on the left and as a number ten. Big player to let go when you haven't replaced him. Stupid decision. Ince started more games because Kachunga was injured for most of the season. Ince lost so much confidence that he couldn't even bring himself to run at a defender, he would just take the easy option of a pass inside. Atleast Kachunga runs the line cuts back and lays it off for the full back to cross in a relatively decent position I saw every appearance from Ince last season and he was a waste of space. Neither he or Kachunga are consistently good enough at this level. Ince has had plenty of goes at it and ended up back in the Championship everytime. Pritchard will likely be the same We’re doing great without him.
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Post by andyeastleake on Sept 26, 2018 20:32:34 GMT 1
Re Ince & the new signings debate .....
....are you allowed to be in both the "I wouldn't have sold Ince" and the "Let's give the new signings more time" camp..
....because that seems to be the logical position for me.
......& as much as I like Kachunga & respect everything he's done for the club (he was a tremendous value for money signing), I'd rather have Tom Ince playing on the right of midfield than him at the moment.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 26, 2018 20:37:42 GMT 1
Kachunga isn’t good enough . Ince wasn’t good enough
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Post by El Mel on Sept 26, 2018 20:42:29 GMT 1
Quaner definitely isn't good enough.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 21:07:11 GMT 1
Define "good enough"
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Post by mids on Sept 26, 2018 21:24:34 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2018 21:32:14 GMT 1
Or "we had better" for those that like to look back.
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Post by mids on Sept 26, 2018 21:36:09 GMT 1
What the hell has backbone got to do with drawing understandable conclusions about the quality of our new signings FFS? You don't half come out with some shyte. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make it shite...it just means, at times, I'm more lucid. Backbone means some folk have no sense of reason as to where our football club is in comparison to our competitors. It's like David's midget brother battling many of Goliath's bigger elder brothers. But we'll fight and do well in time. It may prove to be a 'failure' but the club won't give in...whereas some fans have ALREADY spat the dummy, taken their bat home, and generally thrown the towel in
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Post by mids on Sept 26, 2018 21:40:01 GMT 1
Or "we had better" for those that like to look back. No point looking back. It's done with. It's great to reminisce but it has no bearing on the present or the future. Wagner has bought many duds...I doubt that will change when May comes...
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Post by royrace on Sept 26, 2018 22:56:13 GMT 1
What the hell has backbone got to do with drawing understandable conclusions about the quality of our new signings FFS? You don't half come out with some shyte. Just because I disagree with you doesn't make it shite...it just means, at times, I'm more lucid. Backbone means some folk have no sense of reason as to where our football club is in comparison to our competitors. It's like David's midget brother battling many of Goliath's bigger elder brothers. But we'll fight and do well in time. It may prove to be a 'failure' but the club won't give in...whereas some fans have ALREADY spat the dummy, taken their bat home, and generally thrown the towel in More lucid eh ;D Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards
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Thwarting Dog
Steve Kindon Terrier
UP THE TERRIERS, PLAY LIKE TERRIERS, YOU WON'T GO FAR WRONG
Posts: 1,626
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Post by Thwarting Dog on Sept 28, 2018 10:20:06 GMT 1
Ince more games because Kachunga was injured for most of the season. Ince lost so much confidence that he couldn't even bring himself to run at a defender, he would just take the easy option of a pass inside. Atleast Kachunga runs the line cuts back and lays it off for the full back to cross in a relatively decent position I saw every appearance from Ince last season and he was a waste of space. Neither he or Kachunga are consistently good enough at this level. Ince has had plenty of goes at it and ended up back in the Championship everytime. Pritchard will likely be the same OK, let me keep it really simple. Ince is a better player than Kachunga. True or false? The only reason why Kachunga is still at the club is nobody offered any money for him while Town was offered a profit for Ince, that's it
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Post by teddytheterrier on Sept 28, 2018 10:25:23 GMT 1
I like Kachunga but he isn't good enough for this division, you can't fault his work ethic though.
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Post by mids on Sept 28, 2018 10:35:48 GMT 1
There ain't nobody like Kachunga
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