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Post by rastrick32 on Apr 15, 2019 18:02:56 GMT 1
Graham, give it a rest you absolute sausage roll. Quite simply the best manager we've had for almost 100 years. If you don't agree with me, I'll see you in box 18. Mate, he was part of an amazing set up that brought in the right players, at the right time, for the right man, backed by some amazing fans. He decided to quit when he couldn't come up with anything in this division, even though he would have been supported for another attempt at promotion from the championship. I know most folk would have him back in a breath, but not for me. Thanks for the memory's David. I know it is all about opinions and I respect yours. However, I have to say that I find this staggering.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 15, 2019 18:05:23 GMT 1
Wagner is a good manager but labelling someone with his record when going behind in games as a genius is just ridiculous Sorry you are right .Wagner is a chancer. Offtopic is a footballing genius
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Post by El Mel on Apr 15, 2019 18:08:04 GMT 1
Mate, he was part of an amazing set up that brought in the right players, at the right time, for the right man, backed by some amazing fans. He decided to quit when he couldn't come up with anything in this division, even though he would have been supported for another attempt at promotion from the championship. I know most folk would have him back in a breath, but not for me. Thanks for the memory's David. I know it is all about opinions and I respect yours. However, I have to say that I find this staggering. What's staggering about it? He didn't evolve as a manager at this level. The performances went backwards in this division. He didn't bring in enough useful players over the summer. He released players that could have made an impact. He did decide to quit after less than 4 years as a 1st team coach. What, is staggering about that?
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by digs on Apr 15, 2019 18:09:46 GMT 1
I know it is all about opinions and I respect yours. However, I have to say that I find this staggering. What's staggering about it? He didn't evolve as a manager at this level. The performances went backwards in this division. He didn't bring in enough useful players over the summer. He released players that could have made an impact. He did decide to quit after less than 4 years as a 1st team coach. What, is staggering about that? all youve said is the truth in both posts tbf
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Apr 15, 2019 18:12:10 GMT 1
Wagner is a good manager but labelling someone with his record when going behind in games as a genius is just ridiculous How was his record when we took the lead in games?
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 18:12:14 GMT 1
Graham, give it a rest you absolute sausage roll. Quite simply the best manager we've had for almost 100 years. If you don't agree with me, I'll see you in box 18. Mate, he was part of an amazing set up that brought in the right players, at the right time, for the right man, backed by some amazing fans. He decided to quit when he couldn't come up with anything in this division, even though he would have been supported for another attempt at promotion from the championship. I know most folk would have him back in a breath, but not for me. Thanks for the memory's David. An amazing set up. Nonsense. We've lost several DoF's because the set up is anything but amazing. Who brought in Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Kachunga, Quaner etc from his little black book and made Wells, Hogg, Smith VLP twice the players they were before he came? Man City contacted Huddersfield directly to take Mooy on loan because they liked Wagner and wanted him to take Mooy, showcase him and put him in the shop window. Do you think they make that call with any manager we've had before (that's still alive)? Not a chance. The man took this football club much further than it was ready for. The structure did not and is not fit for Premier League football, yet he still used his little black book to bring in Lossl, Flo etc etc and performed 2 miracles in 2 years. Eventually lack of resources and financial power has told and we've nosedived in what is probably the most financially challenging and strongest Premier League in history. The man took us on a journey hardly any of us thought we would see in our lifetimes. We'll still be singing "Oh What a Night" in 15 years time - the sad thing is that the club couldn't keep up with DW's rate of rapid progress. The man has made us a bigger, stronger and a more popular football club. If anyone wants to become a revisionist or denigrate his amazing achievements at this football club then you reserve the right. But I also reserve the right to call anyone that does that an absolute whopper.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 15, 2019 18:14:36 GMT 1
The search for a better manager has worked out anyway .
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 15, 2019 18:15:30 GMT 1
Wagner is a good manager but labelling someone with his record when going behind in games as a genius is just ridiculous Sorry you are right .Wagner is a chancer. Offtopic is a footballing genius I see you can't debate the point. Just come back with your usual response He got the players in excellent shape with what were revolutionary ideas by English training standards but old hat in Germany. That straight away gave us an advantage. He's also clearly a very good motivator and getting all the players working together towards a common goal. He's also clearly quite clever tactically when he's got a week to prepare his plan A. The fact we failed to come back and win so many times when falling behind shows he isn't some tactical mastermind that many seem to claim.
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Post by El Mel on Apr 15, 2019 18:17:02 GMT 1
Mate, he was part of an amazing set up that brought in the right players, at the right time, for the right man, backed by some amazing fans. He decided to quit when he couldn't come up with anything in this division, even though he would have been supported for another attempt at promotion from the championship. I know most folk would have him back in a breath, but not for me. Thanks for the memory's David. An amazing set up. Nonsense. We've lost several DoF's because the set up is anything but amazing. Who brought in Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Kachunga, Quaner etc from his little black book and made Wells, Hogg, Smith VLP twice the players they were before he came? Man City contacted Huddersfield directly to take Mooy on loan because they liked Wagner and wanted him to take Mooy, showcase him and put him in the shop window. Do you think they make that call with any manager we've had before (that's still alive)? Not a chance. The man took this football club much further than it was ready for. The structure did not and is not fit for Premier League football, yet he still used his little black book to bring in Lossl, Flo etc etc and performed 2 miracles in 2 years. Eventually lack of resources and financial power has told and we've nosedived in what is probably the most financially challenging and strongest Premier League in history. The man took us on a journey hardly any of us thought we would see in our lifetimes. We'll still be singing "Oh What a Night" in 15 years time - the sad thing is that the club couldn't keep up with DW's rate of rapid progress. The man has made us a bigger, stronger and a more popular football club. If anyone wants to become a revisionist or denigrate his amazing achievements at this football club then you reserve the right. But I also reserve the right to call anyone that does that an absolute whopper. His little black book is a legacy of a time when he worked for one of the giants in European football. Doesn't make him a genius. He turned Wells into a defensive attacker as well. Every other attacker he's turned into snot.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 15, 2019 18:26:48 GMT 1
Sorry you are right .Wagner is a chancer. Offtopic is a footballing genius I see you can't debate the point. Just come back with your usual response He got the players in excellent shape with what were revolutionary ideas by English training standards but old hat in Germany. That straight away gave us an advantage. He's also clearly a very good motivator and getting all the players working together towards a common goal. He's also clearly quite clever tactically when he's got a week to prepare his plan A. The fact we failed to come back and win so many times when falling behind shows he isn't some tactical mastermind that many seem to claim. There is absolutely nothing to debate with you . The guy took us from the bottom of the championship and kept us in the prem with substandard players on a relatively tiny budget... you on the other hand have never done anything in the game and know zero .. debate over
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 15, 2019 18:28:30 GMT 1
I see you can't debate the point. Just come back with your usual response He got the players in excellent shape with what were revolutionary ideas by English training standards but old hat in Germany. That straight away gave us an advantage. He's also clearly a very good motivator and getting all the players working together towards a common goal. He's also clearly quite clever tactically when he's got a week to prepare his plan A. The fact we failed to come back and win so many times when falling behind shows he isn't some tactical mastermind that many seem to claim. There is absolutely nothing to debate with you . The guy took us from the bottom of the championship and kept us in the prem with substandard players on a relatively tiny budget... you on the other hand have never done anything in the game and know zero .. debate over I was debating the genius comment, not whether he's a good manager which he clearly is
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Post by impact on Apr 15, 2019 18:31:36 GMT 1
Sorry you are right .Wagner is a chancer. Offtopic is a footballing genius I see you can't debate the point. Just come back with your usual response He got the players in excellent shape with what were revolutionary ideas by English training standards but old hat in Germany. That straight away gave us an advantage. He's also clearly a very good motivator and getting all the players working together towards a common goal. He's also clearly quite clever tactically when he's got a week to prepare his plan A. The fact we failed to come back and win so many times when falling behind shows he isn't some tactical mastermind that many seem to claim. Man City have won just 1 point all season from losing positions, the joint worst in the division. Guardiola must be shit.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 15, 2019 18:31:59 GMT 1
There is absolutely nothing to debate with you . The guy took us from the bottom of the championship and kept us in the prem with substandard players on a relatively tiny budget... you on the other hand have never done anything in the game and know zero .. debate over I was debating the genius comment, not whether he's a good manager which he clearly is Championship also rans to 2 seasons in the prem is as close to genius as you are going to get .. if he isn't a genius tell me a few names more deserving of the title
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 18:34:31 GMT 1
An amazing set up. Nonsense. We've lost several DoF's because the set up is anything but amazing. Who brought in Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Kachunga, Quaner etc from his little black book and made Wells, Hogg, Smith VLP twice the players they were before he came? Man City contacted Huddersfield directly to take Mooy on loan because they liked Wagner and wanted him to take Mooy, showcase him and put him in the shop window. Do you think they make that call with any manager we've had before (that's still alive)? Not a chance. The man took this football club much further than it was ready for. The structure did not and is not fit for Premier League football, yet he still used his little black book to bring in Lossl, Flo etc etc and performed 2 miracles in 2 years. Eventually lack of resources and financial power has told and we've nosedived in what is probably the most financially challenging and strongest Premier League in history. The man took us on a journey hardly any of us thought we would see in our lifetimes. We'll still be singing "Oh What a Night" in 15 years time - the sad thing is that the club couldn't keep up with DW's rate of rapid progress. The man has made us a bigger, stronger and a more popular football club. If anyone wants to become a revisionist or denigrate his amazing achievements at this football club then you reserve the right. But I also reserve the right to call anyone that does that an absolute whopper. His little black book is a legacy of a time when he worked for one of the giants in European football. Doesn't make him a genius. He turned Wells into a defensive attacker as well. Every other attacker he's turned into snot. Because he worked for Dortmund it makes his contacts less relevant? There's far more to it than hearing of a good player. Point is you claimed the set up was amazing, nothing could be further from the truth. The better players came from him and barely anything to do with the set up. Webber brought in VLP and Ward. VLP was naff in his first 6 months here, Wagner turned him (an attacker) into twice the player he was. Kachunga had a terrible reputation in Germany as someone who couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo, he brought him in and turned him into twice the player again. Izzy Brown, Quaner, Palmer VLP, Kachunga, Wells all improved under him - he even had Depoitre and Mounie interested and scoring goals for a time. Wells, he turned from a ball over the top poacher merchant into one of the best all round forwards in that division. There's far more to a striker than scoring goals and Wells played a huge part. He's done all of that in pretty much 1 summer with the same budget as Rotherham. If that's not worthy of massive acclaim then I want to know what meets your standards.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 15, 2019 18:36:01 GMT 1
I was debating the genius comment, not whether he's a good manager which he clearly is Championship also rans to 2 seasons in the prem is as close to genius as you are going to get .. if he isn't a genius tell me a few names more deserving of the title Holloway did the same, actually got more points than Wagner in their season in the Premier League. I take it he's a genius too? Wagner managed us in 154 games. I'm not sure how many games we went behind in, but we only won 4 times when we did. A genius would be able to do better than that surely
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 18:37:28 GMT 1
I see you can't debate the point. Just come back with your usual response He got the players in excellent shape with what were revolutionary ideas by English training standards but old hat in Germany. That straight away gave us an advantage. He's also clearly a very good motivator and getting all the players working together towards a common goal. He's also clearly quite clever tactically when he's got a week to prepare his plan A. The fact we failed to come back and win so many times when falling behind shows he isn't some tactical mastermind that many seem to claim. Man City have won just 1 point all season from losing positions, the joint worst in the division. Guardiola must be shit. The majority of clubs have similar records in the PL at going behind first.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Apr 15, 2019 18:42:51 GMT 1
Nice guy, brought a revolutionary regime to Huddersfield, and was part of the team that gained a completely unexpected promotion. As a tactician though, he falls way short. Incredibly overrated by a lot of town fans. To change the way a team plays, to change the way players behave and improving a club from a strong base is relatively (relatively) simple. But - To change supporters as group,
- To change the ethos in a business
- To make average players good and get the maximum from each one
- To improve the performance of a club beyond the wildest dreams of an owner
- To be humble
- To be honest
- To make a club a single united entity
- To give once in a life time memories to 30k people
Is beyond the ability of an every day man.
David Wagner is a special man who made a very special, if not unique impact on a run down and "also ran" club.
It did take a special chemistry with Dean Hoyle to make these dreams become reality. We are unlikely to see this again in my life time.
UTT
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Post by impact on Apr 15, 2019 18:44:52 GMT 1
Man City have won just 1 point all season from losing positions, the joint worst in the division. Guardiola must be shit. The majority of clubs have similar records in the PL at going behind first. A rough average of points won after going behind is 0.55. In other words, it happens infrequently. It's just a way for Kongolo to find a negative.
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 18:48:33 GMT 1
The majority of clubs have similar records in the PL at going behind first. A rough average of points won after going behind is 0.55. In other words, it happens infrequently. It's just a way for Kongolo to find a negative. He'd have a point if it wasn't such a common theme. You've also got to throw in the quality of player we have to turn a game around and the chances we'd do so if we had Wagner, Guardiola, Kongolo or Alex Ferguson in charge are probably the same. It's all relative.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 15, 2019 18:50:20 GMT 1
A rough average of points won after going behind is 0.55. In other words, it happens infrequently. It's just a way for Kongolo to find a negative. He'd have a point if it wasn't such a common theme. You've also got to throw in the quality of player we have to turn a game around and the chances we'd do so if we had Wagner, Guardiola, Kongolo or Alex Ferguson in charge are probably the same. It's all relative. You do realise that half of Wagner's time here wasn't in the Premier League and we didn't come from behind much then either. All I'm saying is he really didn't have much idea what to do when things weren't going to plan
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Post by impact on Apr 15, 2019 18:54:54 GMT 1
He'd have a point if it wasn't such a common theme. You've also got to throw in the quality of player we have to turn a game around and the chances we'd do so if we had Wagner, Guardiola, Kongolo or Alex Ferguson in charge are probably the same. It's all relative. You do realise that half of Wagner's time here wasn't in the Premier League and we didn't come from behind much then either. All I'm saying is he really didn't have much idea what to do when things weren't going to plan We were 8th in the championship for points per game after going behind in 16/17, all but equal with Newcastle in 7th. Suppose Rafa was no good either.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,863
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Post by digs on Apr 15, 2019 18:58:08 GMT 1
If he was a genius we would be comfortable in the Premier league,
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 18:59:18 GMT 1
He'd have a point if it wasn't such a common theme. You've also got to throw in the quality of player we have to turn a game around and the chances we'd do so if we had Wagner, Guardiola, Kongolo or Alex Ferguson in charge are probably the same. It's all relative. You do realise that half of Wagner's time here wasn't in the Premier League and we didn't come from behind much then either. All I'm saying is he really didn't have much idea what to do when things weren't going to plan I don't know the stats for the Championship so can't give you those and how it compares, but in 2016/17 we went behind 5 times, came back to win 3 and drew 2. We lost 15 so technically we came back from behind in 25% of games to get something. Let's not forget that we went behind at Hillsborough in a really challenging environment and had the strength to come back and then win on pens facing the Sheff Weds fans. Not that bad really?
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 19:01:39 GMT 1
If he was a genius we would be comfortable in the Premier league, Give him anywhere close to financial parity with anyone else and I bet we would be. You can only make so many silk purses out of the same sows ear.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 15, 2019 19:02:00 GMT 1
You do realise that half of Wagner's time here wasn't in the Premier League and we didn't come from behind much then either. All I'm saying is he really didn't have much idea what to do when things weren't going to plan I don't know the stats for the Championship so can't give you those and how it compares, but in 2016/17 we went behind 5 times, came back to win 3 and drew 2. We lost 15 so technically we came back from behind in 25% of games to get something. Let's not forget that we went behind at Hillsborough in a really challenging environment and had the strength to come back and then win on pens facing the Sheff Weds fans. Not that bad really? My criteria for a genius would be higher than 25%. I'll stick with very good manager as my assessment rather than going overboard
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 15, 2019 19:02:22 GMT 1
I bet all you Wagner naysayers are Flat Earthers an’ all.
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TTCMatt
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 516
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Post by TTCMatt on Apr 15, 2019 19:05:41 GMT 1
I don't know the stats for the Championship so can't give you those and how it compares, but in 2016/17 we went behind 5 times, came back to win 3 and drew 2. We lost 15 so technically we came back from behind in 25% of games to get something. Let's not forget that we went behind at Hillsborough in a really challenging environment and had the strength to come back and then win on pens facing the Sheff Weds fans. Not that bad really? My criteria for a genius would be higher than 25%. I'll stick with very good manager as my assessment rather than going overboard With a side put together on a shoe string and 1 Premier League quality player? Harsh. It's all relative to what we've had before. You compare him to any manager we've had going back to Jacko and genius doesn't do him justice
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Post by impact on Apr 15, 2019 19:24:07 GMT 1
I don't know the stats for the Championship so can't give you those and how it compares, but in 2016/17 we went behind 5 times, came back to win 3 and drew 2. We lost 15 so technically we came back from behind in 25% of games to get something. Let's not forget that we went behind at Hillsborough in a really challenging environment and had the strength to come back and then win on pens facing the Sheff Weds fans. Not that bad really? My criteria for a genius would be higher than 25%. I'll stick with very good manager as my assessment rather than going overboard So who is then? Name some names.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 15, 2019 19:27:26 GMT 1
My criteria for a genius would be higher than 25%. I'll stick with very good manager as my assessment rather than going overboard So who is then? Name some names. Steven Hawking, Da Vinci, Michael Faraday, Darwin and Dave bloody Wagner.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Apr 15, 2019 19:31:14 GMT 1
Championship also rans to 2 seasons in the prem is as close to genius as you are going to get .. if he isn't a genius tell me a few names more deserving of the title Holloway did the same, actually got more points than Wagner in their season in the Premier League. I take it he's a genius too? Wagner managed us in 154 games. I'm not sure how many games we went behind in, but we only won 4 times when we did. A genius would be able to do better than that surely Ok you've tripped yourself up in your first paragraph haven't you ? Bye
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