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Post by dugnet on Dec 12, 2022 11:33:35 GMT 1
If you have the ego big enough to buy a football club, have the pockets deep enough to fund it. Everybody loses money on football club's bar those at the very top. If you are thick enough to not see that, you really are struggling to understand how the football industry works. The fact you try and compare it to a normal business is laughable. I know a bit more about the football industry and business than you think đ In business if you make poor decisions you expect to suffer the consequences of those decisions. It is fair enough if you want to say "that's enough" and "sell" on but don't be surprised if the market (in business) or your customers (the fans) aren't critical.
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Post by Torquayterrier on Dec 12, 2022 11:37:59 GMT 1
Must admit, I've gone since I was a toddler, had a season ticket since I left school in 86 but, at the moment, I can't find the interest or enjoyment to think about renewing next year. I've been season ticket holder unbroken since 1979 - and a few years before that when I lived locally - but I will NOT be renewing next season. I'm through with all the travelling and the inevitable disappointment. I'll watch from afar (but not on hesgoal.com! ) My circumstances were always that renewal would be a waste of time next season as I will be 300 miles from Huddersfield by start of next season if all goes to plan. Realistically though I've missed so many games this time that it wasn't really worth it this season either. I've looked at my diary and my next likely home game is Jan 28th and I might not even make that
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 11:39:34 GMT 1
If you have the ego big enough to buy a football club, have the pockets deep enough to fund it. Everybody loses money on football club's bar those at the very top. If you are thick enough to not see that, you really are struggling to understand how the football industry works. The fact you try and compare it to a normal business is laughable. Thatâs not correct, football is full of fans having the money to own he club they support, Hoyle being one of them, most have no intention of making money, in fact Hoyle has said many times that he did not expect to get the money he was funding the club with back, the problem for many clubs at Towns level is âownersâ buying clubs stripping the clubs, especially grounds, with lease back deals and removing the funds or using the funds to massively overspend following the dream. Hoyle leaves the club with an infrastructure which is basically debt free, at least it gives Town the opportunity of selling to prospective owners without legacy debt so there commitment is to finance the club running costs rather than debt repayment, please donât let these facts get in the way of the vitriol of blaming he current owner . One thing i would agree with too, is god knows what's around the corner. Whether you like Hoyle or not the next owner could be a complete charlatan/cowboy like what York City appeared to have found so the grass might not be greener, however in the current predicament change is definitely required, particularly if the new owner wants a positive start which will require bums on seats.
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Post by joburgjon on Dec 12, 2022 11:42:48 GMT 1
A great post Dugnet. I feel in a similar way. Town will always be a ray of light which is an excellent focus in some tough events in life. It can be an excellent thing to help escape and recharge. For that Iâm forever grateful. Went to the Rotherham away game but Iâm struggling to go to away games as weâve been so dire. In short, DH totally mismanaged things when significant money was involved and itâs remarkable seeing from what humble beginnings we started under his tenure. A great point made earlier that the club is a ghost ship, light on but no one driving it forward. I donât mind returning to League one but I feel it will be for a very long time. However a new owner / manager is something Iâd look forward to and blooding some of these youth players. UTT Baldwin is driving it forward, meetings with interested parties over the past few weeks, a couple of groups interested, could be movements in the next couple of weeks, this will not be a drawn out process. I hope you are right on this one, but it seems a little too optimist to me
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Post by detox on Dec 12, 2022 11:52:32 GMT 1
I think what kills you is the lack of hope.
The club appears to have given up, from top to bottom.With Dean confirming he's not running the club any more and looking for a buyer is the main thing. He's not dealing with day to day stuff now, and obviously not looking at investing any more but just keeping the wages and bills paid. Everything leads on from this as we limit of expenses by getting cheap manager and cheap players.
We've sold what 'stars' we had, lost the manager who got us to Wembley...it's so depressing and I just can't see any signs at all that we have the ability to pull ourselves out of this mess. Relegation seems a certainty.
It doesn't help either that we still remember the "premier League legacy" that was promised..there was no legacy, quite the opposite in fact.
Some will say now is the time for fans to rally round , to show they are 'true' supporters...(otherwise you're not a 'proper fan').
Well for me, who remembers quite clearly the decline in the 70's, and how long it took to recover..I simply don't have the enthusiasm any more for another decade in the lower reaches of the football league. Ultimately it's an entertainment business, and watching Town is not entertaining unless you're into sadisitic comedy.
I'll watch on ifollow, read the reports and comments and so on, as I have done for over 60 years..but attending matches ? Not for me, sorry. There is an element of anger behind my decision too, that how we blew a once in a generation opportunity by sheer incompetence and a degree of bad luck.. The final nail was Dean calling in his club loans, that told me he was just another money man looking after himself after having sold us all the "I believe" mantra and led us to believe he'd never expect to get any money back because he was a Town fan through and through...
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Post by captainblack on Dec 12, 2022 12:01:18 GMT 1
All of this is down to one poor decision after another since our relegation from the PL. Siewart, Schofield, Fotheringham, all bad appointments. All the money thatâs been wasted on some terrible signings. People given important roles at the club when clearly not up to it; Winter, Marsh, all these supposed Directors of Football. My arse! Somebodyâs accountable for all this. Very little by way of dissent from the fans up til now but I wouldnât have thought this would last for much longer. I have to admit that things are a little depressing on the Town front at the moment Willo , though there is still hope this season , we are no where near being relegated at the moment (although things look bad) If there is willingness to invest in players this January window , then our outlook may not look so bleak , this window is going to be absolutely critical to our survival in Div2 , get it right and we have a fighting chance, get it wrong and I believe we will be relegated.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Dec 12, 2022 12:06:12 GMT 1
It is all very depressing at the moment, but I for one wonât be giving up on my beloved town. Rough and smooth simple. Love football love town no owner will ever change that. Those who give up donât have the fight in them , you go and go again and again, doesnât after be every week .if not your loss long term .
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Post by Terrier Ramone on Dec 12, 2022 12:20:32 GMT 1
It is awful at the moment & has been for a few years now, bar last season. I can only speak for myself, but I think this is the worst time I've had following Town, since my first season in 1970/71. The big difference is my age now - I was very young in the 70s & 80s & I had much more fight in me & now I have other things to think about, such as my kids & their lives &, basically, I feel knackered (probably my fault for getting a new puppy!)
It's incredibly sad but I very much doubt I'll be renewing either.
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Post by Mastercracker on Dec 12, 2022 12:54:02 GMT 1
I've been season ticket holder unbroken since 1979 - and a few years before that when I lived locally - but I will NOT be renewing next season. I'm through with all the travelling and the inevitable disappointment. I'll watch from afar (but not on hesgoal.com! ) My circumstances were always that renewal would be a waste of time next season as I will be 300 miles from Huddersfield by start of next season if all goes to plan. Realistically though I've missed so many games this time that it wasn't really worth it this season either. I've looked at my diary and my next likely home game is Jan 28th and I might not even make that I live 4.5 miles from the ground yet I'm already looking at those 2 home games in 4 days over Xmas and thinking I CBA with this shit once never mind twice. And they are massive games for the future of this club. Everyone I know is in a state of complete apathy, and that is ultimately because the club seems to have completely given up. It's not a loss at Sheff U, it's everything else. From a position of strength in May we've then: - Lost our manager and replaced with one of his coaches on the proviso of continuity - Sold any player that attracted interest - Replaced them with mostly young players who've never played at this level - Ballsed up every premier league loan - Cut the already small budget to not even top end L1 levels - Watched Schofield have a meltdown tactically and not be the continuity option at all - Ridden a of PR about a potential returning hero only to appoint some bloke everyone had to google - Watch him turn out to be an inarticulate shouty 90s throwback who's answer to everything is run more, whilst listen to him tell us all he's doing a great job and prattle on about scaffolding All whilst our Fan owner ran off to the hills. We might have had some brilliant times for which we should be rightfully thankful but I'd be amazed if Gibson/Bloom/Benham leave Boro/Brighton/Brentford on life support when they eventually leave their clubs. We won't get 40 points this season.
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Post by duncfost01 on Dec 12, 2022 12:54:16 GMT 1
Dugnet- sums up our situation with much more class than I ever could. My instinct to slag off those (or him) is my natural reaction. Itâs appalling.
Anything else than a win on Saturday will see the gap increase. I canât see us scoring nevermind winning.
Itâs a travesty what he has done.
(MF is trying, but was a cheap option with league one in mind IMO).
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Post by townarentbest on Dec 12, 2022 12:54:52 GMT 1
Iâm not getting into drama or in anyway defending the running of the club since the PL but I think you should all be aware, if you werenât already , that when PH lost his companies without Hoyles intervention Town would have been in Administration before the end of 2021.He is currently funding the club with no expectation of being repaid. So for all you supporters who think not renewing, even if we get the chance, should no purchaser be willing or able to fund the club ongoing our next derby maybe Oldham, the ongoing funding from Hoyle will certainly not be extended to next season. If the club had gone into admin, then surely the exact same types of groups of people supposedly interested now would have been interested, and probably MORE interested as it would likely cost them a lost less to get through the front door?
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Post by townarentbest on Dec 12, 2022 12:56:51 GMT 1
I've been season ticket holder unbroken since 1979 - and a few years before that when I lived locally - but I will NOT be renewing next season. I'm through with all the travelling and the inevitable disappointment. I'll watch from afar (but not on hesgoal.com! ) My circumstances were always that renewal would be a waste of time next season as I will be 300 miles from Huddersfield by start of next season if all goes to plan. Realistically though I've missed so many games this time that it wasn't really worth it this season either. I've looked at my diary and my next likely home game is Jan 28th and I might not even make that Are you Rolando Aarons?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2022 12:57:46 GMT 1
Iâm not getting into drama or in anyway defending the running of the club since the PL but I think you should all be aware, if you werenât already , that when PH lost his companies without Hoyles intervention Town would have been in Administration before the end of 2021.He is currently funding the club with no expectation of being repaid. So for all you supporters who think not renewing, even if we get the chance, should no purchaser be willing or able to fund the club ongoing our next derby maybe Oldham, the ongoing funding from Hoyle will certainly not be extended to next season. If the club had gone into admin, then surely the exact same types of groups of people supposedly interested now would have been interested, and probably MORE interested as it would likely cost them a lost less to get through the front door? Yep we would just be -10 points which doesn't really make a difference since we appear to have accepted relegation anyway.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 13:07:00 GMT 1
If the club had gone into admin, then surely the exact same types of groups of people supposedly interested now would have been interested, and probably MORE interested as it would likely cost them a lost less to get through the front door? Yep we would just be -10 points which doesn't really make a difference since we appear to have accepted relegation anyway. This relates to last season.
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Post by townohiofan on Dec 12, 2022 13:10:05 GMT 1
It feels like we're not sleepwalking into relegation but trying to embrace it as a forgone conclusion. You can only consolidate so much until there's nothing left.
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Post by willo on Dec 12, 2022 13:49:25 GMT 1
All of this is down to one poor decision after another since our relegation from the PL. Siewart, Schofield, Fotheringham, all bad appointments. All the money thatâs been wasted on some terrible signings. People given important roles at the club when clearly not up to it; Winter, Marsh, all these supposed Directors of Football. My arse! Somebodyâs accountable for all this. Very little by way of dissent from the fans up til now but I wouldnât have thought this would last for much longer. I have to admit that things are a little depressing on the Town front at the moment Willo , though there is still hope this season , we are no where near being relegated at the moment (although things look bad) If there is willingness to invest in players this January window , then our outlook may not look so bleak , this window is going to be absolutely critical to our survival in Div2 , get it right and we have a fighting chance, get it wrong and I believe we will be relegated. Completely agree Capt B as I have posted elsewhere. We are down but not yet out although a bad January both on and off the pitch and I think weâve had it. Iâve seen us relegated before several times but thereâs usually been an element of dire luck, this time we are absolutely the architects of everything bad.
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Post by rockwall on Dec 12, 2022 14:01:20 GMT 1
Iâm not getting into drama or in anyway defending the running of the club since the PL but I think you should all be aware, if you werenât already , that when PH lost his companies without Hoyles intervention Town would have been in Administration before the end of 2021.He is currently funding the club with no expectation of being repaid. So for all you supporters who think not renewing, even if we get the chance, should no purchaser be willing or able to fund the club ongoing our next derby maybe Oldham, the ongoing funding from Hoyle will certainly not be extended to next season. If the club had gone into admin, then surely the exact same types of groups of people supposedly interested now would have been interested, and probably MORE interested as it would likely cost them a lost less to get through the front door? I got pelters for saying it a couple of months back, but administration would be the best solution. Yes we mat have a points deduction, but we can start again fresh.
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Dec 12, 2022 14:17:27 GMT 1
My circumstances were always that renewal would be a waste of time next season as I will be 300 miles from Huddersfield by start of next season if all goes to plan. Realistically though I've missed so many games this time that it wasn't really worth it this season either. I've looked at my diary and my next likely home game is Jan 28th and I might not even make that I live 4.5 miles from the ground yet I'm already looking at those 2 home games in 4 days over Xmas and thinking I CBA with this shit once never mind twice. And they are massive games for the future of this club. Everyone I know is in a state of complete apathy, and that is ultimately because the club seems to have completely given up. It's not a loss at Sheff U, it's everything else. From a position of strength in May we've then: - Lost our manager and replaced with one of his coaches on the proviso of continuity - Sold any player that attracted interest - Replaced them with mostly young players who've never played at this level - Ballsed up every premier league loan - Cut the already small budget to not even top end L1 levels - Watched Schofield have a meltdown tactically and not be the continuity option at all - Ridden a of PR about a potential returning hero only to appoint some bloke everyone had to google - Watch him turn out to be an inarticulate shouty 90s throwback who's answer to everything is run more, whilst listen to him tell us all he's doing a great job and prattle on about scaffolding All whilst our Fan owner ran off to the hills. We might have had some brilliant times for which we should be rightfully thankful but I'd be amazed if Gibson/Bloom/Benham leave Boro/Brighton/Brentford on life support when they eventually leave their clubs. We won't get 40 points this season. Brilliant post. Letâs not ignore how much of a PR genius Hoyle is. Heâs very quick to tell everyone he had to come in and keep the club afloat and how much itâs costing to do that (it seemed to find its way in the examiner quite quick as well đ) but he hasnât been too quick to come out and tell everyone he turned down an offer for the club from Marcus Evans just before Wembley because he was prepared to take that chance we could go up and he could claw back the money he wants. Since 2018, itâs been a collective of bad decisions from Hoyle, who heâs appointed on and off the pitch which has culminated in a complete fucking mess of our finances, weâve lost good people, weâve lost an identity, a culture, a togetherness. The whole club, board and Hoyle should be held accountable. How can a board be so passive? Hereâs his statement from the end of 2018 www.htafc.com/news/2018/december/dean-hoyle-new-years-message-20182/âI will NOT let us sleepwalk into relegationâ If you think people like me are being negative, this apathy isnât down to just results or league position, itâs beyond that. Itâs the entire DNA of the club, the placement, the message, the ambition thatâs gone. The cowshed loyal called the club out back in July and it wasnât something that sat well with everyone, since July NOTHING has changed at the club. If anything, itâs got worse.
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Post by pilks123 on Dec 12, 2022 14:26:02 GMT 1
Going into administration is absolutely the worst thing that could possibly happen, it shouldn't be wished for just for a change in leadership.
Administrators will do one of two things in that situation
1. Find a buyer (not a guarantee) 2. Dispose of all assets in the club to maintain the running costs (could argue to some extent this is already happening)
If the sums of money Dean is paying just to keep the club afloat is to be believed, it won't take option 2 very long to reach the point of bankruptcy and the disappearance of HTAFC completely. Can't gamble that the subsequent "reduced price" will bring a new owner through the door.
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Dec 12, 2022 14:32:00 GMT 1
Administration is the worst thing that can really happen to a club. But the rapid managed decline we are currently seeing is surely the second worse. The club needs to be sold quickly to someone who actually wants to run it, rather than minimise their losses.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 14:33:56 GMT 1
If the club had gone into admin, then surely the exact same types of groups of people supposedly interested now would have been interested, and probably MORE interested as it would likely cost them a lost less to get through the front door? I got pelters for saying it a couple of months back, but administration would be the best solution. Yes we mat have a points deduction, but we can start again fresh. Administration comes with large costs, due to the % of the debts, which were no doubt secured, then the owner of the debt could ultimately have made the club go into liquidation ( Bury) , also the administrator basically has to accept the highest bidder to appease the creditors, this could have opened the door to someone you would not want near the club.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 14:36:16 GMT 1
Going into administration is absolutely the worst thing that could possibly happen, it shouldn't be wished for just for a change in leadership. Administrators will do one of two things in that situation 1. Find a buyer (not a guarantee) 2. Dispose of all assets in the club to maintain the running costs (could argue to some extent this is already happening) If the sums of money Dean is paying just to keep the club afloat is to be believed, it won't take option 2 very long to reach the point of bankruptcy and the disappearance of HTAFC completely. Can't gamble that the subsequent "reduced price" will bring a new owner through the door. I am led to believe that the club will be debt free to the â rightâ new owners.
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Post by joburgjon on Dec 12, 2022 14:42:39 GMT 1
Going into administration is absolutely the worst thing that could possibly happen, it shouldn't be wished for just for a change in leadership. Administrators will do one of two things in that situation 1. Find a buyer (not a guarantee) 2. Dispose of all assets in the club to maintain the running costs (could argue to some extent this is already happening) If the sums of money Dean is paying just to keep the club afloat is to be believed, it won't take option 2 very long to reach the point of bankruptcy and the disappearance of HTAFC completely. Can't gamble that the subsequent "reduced price" will bring a new owner through the door. I am led to believe that the club will be debt free to the â rightâ new owners. Does this mean DH writing all his debts off?
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 14:43:06 GMT 1
Administration is the worst thing that can really happen to a club. But the rapid managed decline we are currently seeing is surely the second worse. The club needs to be sold quickly to someone who actually wants to run it, rather than minimise their losses. We are not in managed decline, we are trying to live within our means, just look at the transfer spend of other Championship clubs this season, hardly any club has paid large fees this time, thatâs why the league is effectively level, unless you have parachute payments or already have a more prolific striker ( well more than Ward & Rhodes) on the payroll. The vast majority of Championship clubs are upto their necks in debt and have no cash, Wigan have paid their wages late for the last few months, most clubs are now almost fu**ed.
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Post by Detective Boyle on Dec 12, 2022 14:52:05 GMT 1
Perfect summation. People lament Jon Russell for not caring and rightly so. But we are where we are now because people at the club donât care one bit. Thatâs why weâve got the utterly clueless manager we have now, thatâs why we fucked Corberan around, one of the greatest things to happen to this club. We deserve to be where we are and no-one can be surprised. Did you really just say Corberan is one of the greatest things to happen to this club? Please do let me know the exhaustive list of coaches that have had a greater impact than transforming relegation fodder into 2nd division play off finalists on a shoe string budget. Iâll wait
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Post by Up the Duff. on Dec 12, 2022 15:07:21 GMT 1
I remember reading folk saying we could do a Barnsley and I thought they were mad. Then Carlos walks, our best players sold and DS gets the job along with the same BS as when we gave sievert the job. We are an utter car crash. Pathetic really. Weâre league 1 with 40m debt. Be lucky if we donât go to the wall. The promotion to the PL might just be the worst thing to ever happen to our club. Incredible ÂŁ300m and we end up owing money. A titanic fuck up by all those running the club. Sanctioning budgets way above what we could afford bearing in mind the debt that was already owed to Hoyle.
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Post by mosher on Dec 12, 2022 15:07:51 GMT 1
Administration is the worst thing that can really happen to a club. But the rapid managed decline we are currently seeing is surely the second worse. The club needs to be sold quickly to someone who actually wants to run it, rather than minimise their losses. We are not in managed decline, we are trying to live within our means, just look at the transfer spend of other Championship clubs this season, hardly any club has paid large fees this time, thatâs why the league is effectively level, unless you have parachute payments or already have a more prolific striker ( well more than Ward & Rhodes) on the payroll. The vast majority of Championship clubs are upto their necks in debt and have no cash, Wigan have paid their wages late for the last few months, most clubs are now almost fu**ed. It's looking like Phil's predictions of clubs being in financial messes was right. He was just 18 month out with his timeline
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Dec 12, 2022 15:13:32 GMT 1
Administration is the worst thing that can really happen to a club. But the rapid managed decline we are currently seeing is surely the second worse. The club needs to be sold quickly to someone who actually wants to run it, rather than minimise their losses. We are not in managed decline, we are trying to live within our means, just look at the transfer spend of other Championship clubs this season, hardly any club has paid large fees this time, thatâs why the league is effectively level, unless you have parachute payments or already have a more prolific striker ( well more than Ward & Rhodes) on the payroll. The vast majority of Championship clubs are upto their necks in debt and have no cash, Wigan have paid their wages late for the last few months, most clubs are now almost fu**ed. I get what you are saying, but a Championship club canât be successful and live within its means. They all need financial support and ours has largely disappeared.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 15:16:31 GMT 1
Iâm not getting into drama or in anyway defending the running of the club since the PL but I think you should all be aware, if you werenât already , that when PH lost his companies without Hoyles intervention Town would have been in Administration before the end of 2021.He is currently funding the club with no expectation of being repaid. So for all you supporters who think not renewing, even if we get the chance, should no purchaser be willing or able to fund the club ongoing our next derby maybe Oldham, the ongoing funding from Hoyle will certainly not be extended to next season. So, if the club isn't sold by the end of the season, he'll stop funding it, it'll go under and he'll lose everything he put in then? Heâs getting very little if anything back, why throw good money after bad, a first loss is the best loss etc,etc.He wants out, not well and wants to move on, apart from being a lifelong supporter, why should he continue putting money in when all he gets is abuse.
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Post by portugalterrier on Dec 12, 2022 15:19:03 GMT 1
We are not in managed decline, we are trying to live within our means, just look at the transfer spend of other Championship clubs this season, hardly any club has paid large fees this time, thatâs why the league is effectively level, unless you have parachute payments or already have a more prolific striker ( well more than Ward & Rhodes) on the payroll. The vast majority of Championship clubs are upto their necks in debt and have no cash, Wigan have paid their wages late for the last few months, most clubs are now almost fu**ed. I get what you are saying, but a Championship club canât be successful and live within its means. They all need financial support and ours has largely disappeared. As has Bristol Cityâs , Lansdown owed ÂŁ185 million.Losses last 2 seasons nearly ÂŁ50million.
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