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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 22:52:49 GMT 1
Do people not understand the commercial and on the pitch aspects are related? The more money we get from partners, the more we can spend. It's as simple as that. Canalside brings in £200k a year. That pays for half of Jonathan Hogg's transfer fee. The club has shown it will invest money earned straight into the team. I don't understand why people are so negative about the commercial sides. Developing revenue streams are the only way we can compete in the championship. I think for all Dean and the board have done for this club, they are fully entitled to expect some loyalty from the fans as they work to build up the club and develop the academy. I'll be there every year whilst the current board are in place. UTT We understand theyre related, however theyre overstated. Looked at the latest directors report. £8.2m from match day income, TV and Football League, compared to commercial income of "only" £1.5m. Staying in this league (£3m increase from TV and FL compared to L1) is more financially important than ALL of the commercial activities of the club combined...as such, the ability of the club to compete on the football pitch should be the NUMBER ONE priority. £2.7m of Hudds Town funds were spent on Canalside in that single reported period....so thats actually more like 15 years (notwithstanding previous and future monies that will be sunk into it) before it pays for Jonathan Hogg! www.htafc.com/documents/1213directorsreport238-1259020.pdf
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horler1
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Post by horler1 on Apr 20, 2014 23:05:27 GMT 1
Do people not understand the commercial and on the pitch aspects are related? The more money we get from partners, the more we can spend. It's as simple as that. Canalside brings in £200k a year. That pays for half of Jonathan Hogg's transfer fee. The club has shown it will invest money earned straight into the team. I don't understand why people are so negative about the commercial sides. Developing revenue streams are the only way we can compete in the championship. I think for all Dean and the board have done for this club, they are fully entitled to expect some loyalty from the fans as they work to build up the club and develop the academy. I'll be there every year whilst the current board are in place. UTT We understand theyre related, however theyre overstated. Looked at the latest directors report. £8.2m from match day income, TV and Football League, compared to commercial income of "only" £1.5m. Staying in this league (£3m increase from TV and FL compared to L1) is more financially important than ALL of the commercial activities of the club combined...as such, the ability of the club to compete on the football pitch should be the NUMBER ONE priority. £2.7m of Hudds Town funds were spent on Canalside in that single reported period....so thats actually more like 15 years (notwithstanding previous and future monies that will be sunk into it) before it pays for Jonathan Hogg! www.htafc.com/documents/1213directorsreport238-1259020.pdfWithout a decent training ground we wouldn't be able to attract decent first teamers and, even more relevant, promising youngsters. Effectively we as fans are subsidising the costs of canalside and putting some extra in. We needed the training ground either way. Our income is limited from our lack of previous input on issues relating to the stadium (food contracts etc). We are paying 800k a year in stadium rent. Every little helps. We made £3.8million from matchday income. £1.5million extra is massive for a club of our size. Deano has stated that in the championship we have barely attracted any more fans (except away fans). So the only increase in income can either come from commercial or better performances on the pitch. We are trying to do both. The problem is it's more difficult on the pitch as we have a budget to stick to. Having said all that we will have achieved our aims by the end of the season. Add to that the youth teams have won their leagues. The board are doing a magnificent job.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Apr 20, 2014 23:15:37 GMT 1
Do people not understand the commercial and on the pitch aspects are related? The more money we get from partners, the more we can spend. It's as simple as that. Canalside brings in £200k a year. That pays for half of Jonathan Hogg's transfer fee. The club has shown it will invest money earned straight into the team. I don't understand why people are so negative about the commercial sides. Developing revenue streams are the only way we can compete in the championship. I think for all Dean and the board have done for this club, they are fully entitled to expect some loyalty from the fans as they work to build up the club and develop the academy. I'll be there every year whilst the current board are in place. UTT We understand theyre related, however theyre overstated. Looked at the latest directors report. £8.2m from match day income, TV and Football League, compared to commercial income of "only" £1.5m. Staying in this league (£3m increase from TV and FL compared to L1) is more financially important than ALL of the commercial activities of the club combined...as such, the ability of the club to compete on the football pitch should be the NUMBER ONE priority. £2.7m of Hudds Town funds were spent on Canalside in that single reported period....so thats actually more like 15 years (notwithstanding previous and future monies that will be sunk into it) before it pays for Jonathan Hogg! www.htafc.com/documents/1213directorsreport238-1259020.pdfAs this shows, great strides have been made off the pitch but now is the time to concentrate on on the field activities. That is what will bring the punters in.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Apr 20, 2014 23:20:42 GMT 1
We understand theyre related, however theyre overstated. Looked at the latest directors report. £8.2m from match day income, TV and Football League, compared to commercial income of "only" £1.5m. Staying in this league (£3m increase from TV and FL compared to L1) is more financially important than ALL of the commercial activities of the club combined...as such, the ability of the club to compete on the football pitch should be the NUMBER ONE priority. £2.7m of Hudds Town funds were spent on Canalside in that single reported period....so thats actually more like 15 years (notwithstanding previous and future monies that will be sunk into it) before it pays for Jonathan Hogg! www.htafc.com/documents/1213directorsreport238-1259020.pdfWithout a decent training ground we wouldn't be able to attract decent first teamers and, even more relevant, promising youngsters. Effectively we as fans are subsidising the costs of canalside and putting some extra in. We needed the training ground either way. Our income is limited from our lack of previous input on issues relating to the stadium (food contracts etc). We are paying 800k a year in stadium rent. Every little helps. We made £3.8million from matchday income. £1.5million extra is massive for a club of our size. Deano has stated that in the championship we have barely attracted any more fans (except away fans). So the only increase in income can either come from commercial or better performances on the pitch. We are trying to do both. The problem is it's more difficult on the pitch as we have a budget to stick to. Having said all that we will have achieved our aims by the end of the season. Add to that the youth teams have won their leagues. The board are doing a magnificent job. This is very true, so we need a manager to get the best out of what we've got/can afford and for me Robins isn't the guy.
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horler1
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Post by horler1 on Apr 20, 2014 23:30:00 GMT 1
Deano has stated that in the championship we have barely attracted any more fans (except away fans). So the only increase in income can either come from commercial or better performances on the pitch. We are trying to do both. The problem is it's more difficult on the pitch as we have a budget to stick to. Having said all that we will have achieved our aims by the end of the season. Add to that the youth teams have won their leagues. The board are doing a magnificent job. This is very true, so we need a manager to get the best out of what we've got/can afford and for me Robins isn't the guy. I'm disappointed with this season after the promising performances before christmas. However I think Robins needs time to bring his own players in, more specifically players with leadership qualities. Let's not forget Robins only had from February to assess where he needed to strengthen the squad. It takes time to be able to understand each player and how they deal with pressure etc. Novak wanted too much money. As such, we were left requiring 4 strikers for a start. It was always going to be very difficult to bring so many players in, whilst reducing the wages by £2million and all succeed. The impact of this should not be underestimated. Vaughan succeeded, Paterson was okay. We will sell Paterson for a profit this summer and we have replaced him with Wells. Lopez and the other youngsters were for the development squad and may become valuable. Let's give Robins time to sort out these problems and therefore give him the summer and until christmas next year at least. Then we can see if he has addressed the problems. By that point, in my opinion, he will have had enough time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 1:19:13 GMT 1
I believe we are in the bottom 4/5 for commercial revenue for the 12/13 season. That simply isn't good enough for the amount of partners we have.
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horler1
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Post by horler1 on Apr 21, 2014 1:37:07 GMT 1
I believe we are in the bottom 4/5 for commercial revenue for the 12/13 season. That simply isn't good enough for the amount of partners we have. I didn't realise this. Is this because we have a charity as out main sponsor do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 2:09:55 GMT 1
Deano has stated that in the championship we have barely attracted any more fans (except away fans). So the only increase in income can either come from commercial or better performances on the pitch. We are trying to do both. The problem is it's more difficult on the pitch as we have a budget to stick to. Having said all that we will have achieved our aims by the end of the season. Add to that the youth teams have won their leagues. The board are doing a magnificent job. The increase in income from the commercial side has been around £200k per year since promotion. I know it all counts, but its a trifling amount....the style of football we've been forced to play over the last 18 months because of the level of investmemt and comitment to footballing matters will have lost the same amount on ticket sales that we've gained commercially. Yes, Canalside is a great facility, but which of the players we've signed wouldnt be here without it. I'd hazard none of them. So whilst its worthy spend, lets not over egg its importance to the here and now. I think its largely indisputable that the club could be doing much better within the parameters it operates, and its by organisation and focus that it isnt. It doesnt take a genius to see the obvious holes amd mismatches.
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horler1
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Post by horler1 on Apr 21, 2014 2:18:15 GMT 1
I know it all counts, but its a trifling amount....the style of football we've been forced to play over the last 18 months because of the level of investmemt and comitment to footballing matters will have lost the same amount on ticket sales that we've gained commercially. Yes, Canalside is a great facility, but which of the players we've signed wouldnt be here without it. I'd hazard none of them. So whilst its worthy spend, lets not over egg its importance to the here and now. I think its largely indisputable that the club could be doing much better within the parameters it operates, and its by organisation and focus that it isnt. It doesnt take a genius to see the obvious holes amd mismatches. I agree. We need to produce better football and then we will attract more fans. I hope (and believe) this will improve next year once we bring in some leadership and a ball playing centre back. I still think the commercial revenue is important though. Look at the biggest clubs... they have huge turnovers, not because of 100k+ fans at the match but due to huge shirt deals, stadium sponsorships and worldwide merchandise sales.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 2:29:24 GMT 1
I know it all counts, but its a trifling amount....the style of football we've been forced to play over the last 18 months because of the level of investmemt and comitment to footballing matters will have lost the same amount on ticket sales that we've gained commercially. Yes, Canalside is a great facility, but which of the players we've signed wouldnt be here without it. I'd hazard none of them. So whilst its worthy spend, lets not over egg its importance to the here and now. I think its largely indisputable that the club could be doing much better within the parameters it operates, and its by organisation and focus that it isnt. It doesnt take a genius to see the obvious holes amd mismatches. I agree. We need to produce better football and then we will attract more fans. I hope (and believe) this will improve next year once we bring in some leadership and a ball playing centre back. I still think the commercial revenue is important though. Look at the biggest clubs... they have huge turnovers, not because of 100k+ fans at the match but due to huge shirt deals, stadium sponsorships and worldwide merchandise sales. Which is all well and good, but Town don't, and wont, be benefiting from any of that. Therefore the point stands "must try harder". We get what we deserve. Barring Hoyle, Clibbens and Wilson, most of the folk operationally at Town were there during a period that ended in admin, or at the least were Lemmings in the Ken Davy era. Is the club strong and determined enough to really change and grow? I think probably not.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 2:56:30 GMT 1
I believe we are in the bottom 4/5 for commercial revenue for the 12/13 season. That simply isn't good enough for the amount of partners we have. I didn't realise this. Is this because we have a charity as out main sponsor do you think? Since when have Thornton + Ross or Rekorderlig been charities?!
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Post by shawsie on Apr 21, 2014 8:00:31 GMT 1
Some of the comments beggar belief. We are a community club which has invested in a top notch training facility which can be used by the community and shows an intent to parents of would be stars of the future that we are.a decent outfit. Years and years of no investment left us training at storthes hall in ramshackle surroundings miles from nowhere and with no decent base to call "home" never mind the commercial opportunities canalside will bring over time. Nobody doubts we need to attend to the here and now - but we are now in the championship and have competed this year with derby, qpr, leicester, boro, leeds - teams with massively bigger budgets and recent track records. The last 4m have been woeful......but dont forget the progress before then fellas....folks coming back from qpr saying how good we were, beating burnley at home etc. personally i blame the manager for pissing about with the charlton cup team - we aint been the same since!!!! Nobody is immune from criticism and the board have undoubtedly made mistakes, but those throwing stones right now should just ask thrmselves who is biting deans hand off to take the club over?!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 8:19:51 GMT 1
Give me the charity links, the free tickets for kids, the YAA fundraising and the school breakfasts clubs over some faceless corporate machine any day of the week.
The foundations are still being laid and folk are moaning about the lack of stained glass windows in the sun house. We'll get there, slowly but surely whilst doing things the right way.
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Post by Syran on Apr 21, 2014 9:01:46 GMT 1
The key to increasing the revenue 2 fold is to sign a player from Japan/China.
You then get millions of "fans" overnight, buying shirts etc.
There is one Japanese player that I've been keeping an eye on called Hideki Ishige.... Sign him and we double our revenue, simple ain't it?
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Post by gledholt terrier on Apr 21, 2014 9:41:42 GMT 1
I agree. We need to produce better football and then we will attract more fans. I hope (and believe) this will improve next year once we bring in some leadership and a ball playing centre back. I still think the commercial revenue is important though. Look at the biggest clubs... they have huge turnovers, not because of 100k+ fans at the match but due to huge shirt deals, stadium sponsorships and worldwide merchandise sales. Which is all well and good, but Town don't, and wont, be benefiting from any of that. Therefore the point stands "must try harder". We get what we deserve. Barring Hoyle, Clibbens and Wilson, most of the folk operationally at Town were there during a period that ended in admin, or at the least were Lemmings in the Ken Davy era. Is the club strong and determined enough to really change and grow? I think probably not. The only person with any sort of influence still at Town from KD's era is Ann Hough. It'll be her fault then.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Apr 21, 2014 9:49:06 GMT 1
I believe we are in the bottom 4/5 for commercial revenue for the 12/13 season. That simply isn't good enough for the amount of partners we have. Agree and disagree Business improvement is all about finding those extra one percents. If Canalside is chipping in an extra £200k then fantastic Maybe the club need to revisit all aspects of the business to find those extra 1 percents; grow the blue and whiite lottery seller base (especially in light of the national lottery double ticket price to £2 = obvious selling point), source new BAWF perks to attract potential customers (ie sign up local business for a discount using either the one off Groupon model or for a permanent discount like the NUS or NHS do - make these deals only available to BAWF members or season ticket holders), review email targeting, try and get the billboard van in Lidl car park on way into Hudds and other Town signage in places outside Huddersfield etc There's no silver bullet commercially (on field out of their remit) but is there further optimisation they can do?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 9:49:41 GMT 1
Are you trying to imply that folk who were here when the club went into admin are in some way responsible for it, and then you follow that up with "at the least were Lemmings in the Ken Davy era"?
I reckon quite a lot of them worked for nowt in order to try and save the club from admin, and you do realise as Ken Davy was the owner, you kind of have to do what he says, whether you entirely agree with it or not.
What a bizarre statement to come out with.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 9:53:15 GMT 1
£200K from canalside saves £20 off your season ticket. That's fairly significant if you ask me.
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Post by ToonTerrier on Apr 21, 2014 9:58:04 GMT 1
I believe we are in the bottom 4/5 for commercial revenue for the 12/13 season. That simply isn't good enough for the amount of partners we have. Agree and disagree Business improvement is all about finding those extra one percents. If Canalside is chipping in an extra £200k then fantastic Maybe the club need to revisit all aspects of business to find those extra 1 percents; grow the blue and whiite lottery seller base (especially in light of the national lottery double tickets to £2 = obvious selling point), source new BAWF perks to attract potential customers (ie sign up local business for a discount using the either the one off Groupon model or for a permanent discount like the NUS or NHS do - make these deals only available to BAWF members or season ticket holders), review email targeting, try and get the billboard van in Lidl car park on way into Hudds and other Town signage in places outside Huddersfield etc There's no silver bullet commercially (on field out of their remit) but is there further optimisation they can do? Think someone mentioned this on another thread, get some YouTube videos up of good goals or show boating or something with some decent music and we might attract some younger people to the JSS on a match day!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 10:08:50 GMT 1
Ann Hough is basically the contracts clerk, with added responsibility for the 'match day experience' which makes her Director grade. She's undoubtably very good at her main job, and a very charming person ...but if I were dean Hoyle I'd have someone else in for the 'match day experience' side of things...someone who can concentrate fully on all the issues we have on match days as regards 'atmosphere'.. Nigel Clibbens does the pricing of games and SC's (as well as the club finances) so really someone to work between those two..get a grip on John Robinson, KSDL, Safe Standing, Banners and Flags, Stadium configuration and development and liaise with other clubs to see what they are doing .. Sean Jarvis has been set targets for commercial revenues at both the JSS and Canalside..he's pretty good at his job I reckon and a tireless worker...he also understands the issues regarding 'atmosphere' but it's not in his remit to deal with this. He might make a better CEO than Nigel Clibbens as I think he has a better broader picture of things.. Having said that, Dean Hoyle is very much the boss and very hands on...which is fair enough seeing as it's his money..I'd be the same.
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Post by pieeater on Apr 21, 2014 10:47:01 GMT 1
We understand theyre related, however theyre overstated. Looked at the latest directors report. £8.2m from match day income, TV and Football League, compared to commercial income of "only" £1.5m. Staying in this league (£3m increase from TV and FL compared to L1) is more financially important than ALL of the commercial activities of the club combined...as such, the ability of the club to compete on the football pitch should be the NUMBER ONE priority. £2.7m of Hudds Town funds were spent on Canalside in that single reported period....so thats actually more like 15 years (notwithstanding previous and future monies that will be sunk into it) before it pays for Jonathan Hogg! www.htafc.com/documents/1213directorsreport238-1259020.pdfAs this shows, great strides have been made off the pitch but now is the time to concentrate on on the field activities. That is what will bring the punters in. Of course the last part is true, but do you really think it's one or the other?
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Apr 21, 2014 10:58:06 GMT 1
The key to increasing the revenue 2 fold is to sign a player from Japan/China. You then get millions of "fans" overnight, buying shirts etc. There is one Japanese player that I've been keeping an eye on called Hideki Ishige.... Sign him and we double our revenue, simple ain't it? Same goes for Holmes. He's done one or two interviews and had a few articles published about him by American sites already, think I saw him being listed as "an unexpected world cup call up" as well. If he breaks into the first team next season and gets some goals you can guarantee we'll be getting some attention in America.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 11:07:10 GMT 1
Are you trying to imply that folk who were here when the club went into admin are in some way responsible for it, and then you follow that up with "at the least were Lemmings in the Ken Davy era"? I reckon quite a lot of them worked for nowt in order to try and save the club from admin, and you do realise as Ken Davy was the owner, you kind of have to do what he says, whether you entirely agree with it or not. What a bizarre statement to come out with. What I'm saying is that just because Dean is the owner, he cant positively or negatively influence everything, just like Ken didnt previously. In business, change rarely happens with change of higher leadership, its when the middle ground is shook up that things really start to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2014 11:11:04 GMT 1
£200K from canalside saves £20 off your season ticket. That's fairly significant if you ask me. So Canalside cost the club nothing to develop despite what the financial report says?! In the 12 months to may 2013, for each season ticket holder, more than £250 was spent on Canalside.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Apr 21, 2014 11:39:43 GMT 1
As this shows, great strides have been made off the pitch but now is the time to concentrate on on the field activities. That is what will bring the punters in. Of course the last part is true, but do you really think it's one or the other? Its important to have the facilities in place to help attract better players in the future and the club has to be applauded for that, but the thing that will really attract those players is performances on the pitch. The recent bad run will have had a two fold effect 1)Lower than expected season ticket sales, therefore less money in the pot for new signings 2)The sort of players we need to bring in will be less likely to come if they think that they are joining a team on the decline, unless we pay big wages which we know we can't afford. Apart from maintaining our status in the Championship the last couple of months should have been the time for selling the club to the undecided/new fans, but its had the opposite effect and as I keep banging on, the buck stops with the manager.
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Apr 21, 2014 11:48:35 GMT 1
Some of the comments beggar belief. We are a community club which has invested in a top notch training facility which can be used by the community and shows an intent to parents of would be stars of the future that we are.a decent outfit. Years and years of no investment left us training at storthes hall in ramshackle surroundings miles from nowhere and with no decent base to call "home" never mind the commercial opportunities canalside will bring over time. Nobody doubts we need to attend to the here and now - but we are now in the championship and have competed this year with derby, qpr, leicester, boro, leeds - teams with massively bigger budgets and recent track records. The last 4m have been woeful......but dont forget the progress before then fellas....folks coming back from qpr saying how good we were, beating burnley at home etc. personally i blame the manager for pissing about with the charlton cup team - we aint been the same since!!!! Nobody is immune from criticism and the board have undoubtedly made mistakes, but those throwing stones right now should just ask thrmselves who is biting deans hand off to take the club over?!
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Post by togterrier on Apr 22, 2014 13:06:33 GMT 1
HTAFC are probably the best bar none at engaging with their supporters. I'll repeat the question: how should HTAFC be engaging with its' supporters in a way it currently isn't? Not sure how you'll have arrived at the first conclusion I've quoted or how much of a conclusion can be reached from the comment. How much exposure do you have to how other clubs engage with supporters & how much interest do you actually take in how supporters of other clubs are treated. I can only speak from personal experience but if we are the best the God help the worst because I've no real reason to believe we're that good. In recent years I had cause to contact the club in writing on three separate occasions (including one serious matter and one very relevant to me) . Each time the response was (IMHO) very very poor and nothing like the picture some portray of how open and fan orientated we are. So responding appropriately to written communication would be a start. I'm a season ticket holder (renewed) travelling many miles to watch Town each year. These responses and their attitude has undoubtedly soured my feelings towards the organisation. With these and other actions over the years, I really struggle to see them as a club these days as they act so much more like a business than a club. Sh8*te football hasn't put me off supporting Town over many years but the attitude of people involved in the administration of the club is starting to wear very very thin. I wouldn't accept it from any other business and only feelings buried deep inside grown over many years mean I tolerate it now. If my lad were to stop supporting Town now for whatever reason, I don't believe I would continue bothering to travel so far to be a customer of just a mere business (which is I'm afraid increasingly how I feel about Huddersfield Town these days). My conclusion is based on the availability/openness of contact with the owners/board of directors which is 2nd to none.
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Post by togterrier on Apr 22, 2014 13:14:16 GMT 1
How do all?!! Haven't time to reply individually to all the replies my post on Saturday am has generated but undoubtedly many salient and good points made. I'm not a 'happy clapper' but generally delighted with the way my football club operates. And, like everybody I'm sure, much happier this lunchtime re 1st XI affairs than I was this time yesterday . (Please note, I only typed much happier )
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Post by dugnet on Apr 22, 2014 13:26:39 GMT 1
What is interesting from this debate is how some fans think the club aren't engaged and how the board, based on what Ross said on Saturday, thinks that all the off field development has been largely ignored by some.
The truth of the matter is that both the board and the fans want the same thing...a successful and entertaining first team. Some fans see us with a multi millionaire chairman who can throw money at the issue. The board understand their available revenue streams, along with Dean's significant input, and have a budget to work to. They, quite rightly, are sensible and will not place the club in an invidious position again in the pursuit of the Premiership dream.
So this leaves us with making the best of what we have got available to us, which is still workable (in my opinion of course). Lessons need to be learned and the right players need to be brought into to the 1st team to make us better. But you know the one commodity we really need? The one commodity that seems to desert HTAFC?
A little bit of luck...and the footballing gods to give us a break.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 22, 2014 14:29:04 GMT 1
Trouble is it doesn't explain why we brought Steadhino back :-)
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