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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 1, 2014 10:37:53 GMT 1
I think its seriously time to look at what we are doing on the striker front. Wells and Ward does not stack up and Paterson isn't a viable replacement for either. Its also time to get independent medical advice on Vaughan and then get the clubs legal team on it. You cannot go on paying players who simply cannot make the fitness, its not unfair or nasty its just a fact of life. Given his history its possible we haven't a leg to stand on as we will have given him a full medical before he signed so best Deano has another look at that report but constant and various injuries must at some point lead to the club considering their best course of action.
I do believe that some players do continue to play with niggles or very minor things because they have an overwhelming desire to do so, I think that has always been the case and in the past it may well have caused some of them quite serious problems in later life. I don't believe that would be the case now with updated treatments and in the case of Vaughan, his only playing every other game etc. But we do need to see a return on the investment, its just a financial fact.
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Post by 3Pipe on Aug 1, 2014 10:38:44 GMT 1
I honestly thought that knee op would sort him out.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Aug 1, 2014 10:39:38 GMT 1
Tightness in his calf my arse the club should say what's up with the lad
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:42:30 GMT 1
I think its seriously time to look at what we are doing on the striker front. Wells and Ward does not stack up and Paterson isn't a viable replacement for either. Its also time to get independent medical advice on Vaughan and then get the clubs legal team on it. You cannot go on paying players who simply cannot make the fitness, its not unfair or nasty its just a fact of life. Given his history its possible we haven't a leg to stand on as we will have given him a full medical before he signed so best Deano has another look at that report but constant and various injuries must at some point lead to the club considering their best course of action. I do believe that some players do continue to play with niggles or very minor things because they have an overwhelming desire to do so, I think that has always been the case and in the past it may well have caused some of them quite serious problems in later life. I don't believe that would be the case now with updated treatments and in the case of Vaughan, his only playing every other game etc. But we do need to see a return on the investment, its just a financial fact. When we signed him, there were clauses in his contract and Im sure within the transfer fee itself that protected us from "slightly" from the injury risk. We knew what we were getting, so Im sure we went into it without blinkers on. If you find Dean Hoyles statement about it at the time, then Im sure it was within that, or possibly the radio leeds interview about transfers or possibly talk sport that summer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:46:09 GMT 1
Tightness in his calf my arse the club should say what's up with the lad There must come a point, where we just say. Man Up and play, stop whinging about a tight calf, a sore knee, a swollen toe and play through it. Im not saying that time is friendly vs Oldham, but when the season starts he is just gonna have to get on with it. He cant manage his injuries obviously, we spend so long protecting him from injuries that we may as well just let the injury happen and then let it repair.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:47:15 GMT 1
I think its seriously time to look at what we are doing on the striker front. Wells and Ward does not stack up and Paterson isn't a viable replacement for either. Its also time to get independent medical advice on Vaughan and then get the clubs legal team on it. You cannot go on paying players who simply cannot make the fitness, its not unfair or nasty its just a fact of life. Given his history its possible we haven't a leg to stand on as we will have given him a full medical before he signed so best Deano has another look at that report but constant and various injuries must at some point lead to the club considering their best course of action. I do believe that some players do continue to play with niggles or very minor things because they have an overwhelming desire to do so, I think that has always been the case and in the past it may well have caused some of them quite serious problems in later life. I don't believe that would be the case now with updated treatments and in the case of Vaughan, his only playing every other game etc. But we do need to see a return on the investment, its just a financial fact. Cue the dutch kid signing and superlopez entering transfer folk-law.....
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 1, 2014 10:48:36 GMT 1
We can't rely on Jv to be fit for more than 10-15 games a season. It's not the lads fault it's just how it is... Football is about scoring goals. Far too many times the ball goes out wide but there is nothing in the middle . Wells on his own was painful to watch at times. No matter what E4 and his cohorts says Ward is not the answer. Pato is a no go... So if we don't sign a striker we are going to be chopping and changing, searching for the best alternative till Vaughan gets fit. Then when he gets fit he will need games to get him up to speed, then he will get injured again.. It's how it's been for two years now. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes but surely there must be a better plan than "hope vaughany is fit and if he isn't go with what we've got" .... That approach has bottom end of the table written all over it I'm afraid
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Post by Sio on Aug 1, 2014 10:52:07 GMT 1
Tightness in his calf my arse the club should say what's up with the lad There must come a point, where we just say. Man Up and play, stop whinging about a tight calf, a sore knee, a swollen toe and play through it. Im not saying that time is friendly vs Oldham, but when the season starts he is just gonna have to get on with it. He cant manage his injuries obviously, we spend so long protecting him from injuries that we may as well just let the injury happen and then let it repair. If it was as simple as that we would've done it. What's the point in playing someone who isn't up to fitness? It'd only be detrimental to the team. Of all the players I think Vaughan is one who would likely rush back into the squad despite not being fully fit. Fact is, he isn't fit most of the time. It certainly isn't a case of the club protecting him or Vaughan kicking up a fuss over nothing.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Aug 1, 2014 10:53:28 GMT 1
Reading a recent Examiner article it sounds like Joe Lolley fancies playing centre forward. I didn't pay much attention to the Watford match but how did we line up in that fixture ? Whatever it was it appeared to work.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:54:33 GMT 1
The longer this drags on, the more weight falls behind the rumour I heard last year that JV has a psychological issue. I stress, that was all it was, a rumour. But, looking at what has happened, and the performances Vaughan has managed since his sending off against Leicester, the more it appears to be a contributing factor in his absence. Even Dean said that he couldn't cope with the responsibilities of the captaincy, which affected his game. Added to that, the description of his injuries coming from the club always seem to be vague, ambiguous and relatively minor on the face of it, yet they keep him out for weeks or months. Something ain't right, and its not James Vaughans calf.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:55:08 GMT 1
Any links to the statement cant find anything only that in the examiner robins says he hopes he will be fit for saturday? Robins speaking to Radio Leeds/WYS
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:57:54 GMT 1
There must come a point, where we just say. Man Up and play, stop whinging about a tight calf, a sore knee, a swollen toe and play through it. Im not saying that time is friendly vs Oldham, but when the season starts he is just gonna have to get on with it. He cant manage his injuries obviously, we spend so long protecting him from injuries that we may as well just let the injury happen and then let it repair. If it was as simple as that we would've done it. What's the point in playing someone who isn't up to fitness? It'd only be detrimental to the team. Of all the players I think Vaughan is one who would likely rush back into the squad despite not being fully fit. Fact is, he isn't fit most of the time. It certainly isn't a case of the club protecting him or Vaughan kicking up a fuss over nothing. Yeah but alot that comes out of the club is, he has a tight calf, he felt a twinge in training etc etc. If I had a sore calf, played 90 minutes after 2-3 it would be fine, Day after it would be fucked..... but unless there was something serious other than a sore calf, Id be right by wed or thurs. A sore calf is no reason to miss a game, a calf strain.... just, torn calf, fine. Just seems we wrap him up in cotton wool and he still falls to bits. Maybe we should work him harder, get him stronger and hope for the best. What differnce would it make? the current method is obviously failing, and at least he would be missing for a proper reason if it failed.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Aug 1, 2014 10:59:54 GMT 1
>Reading a recent Examiner article it sounds like Joe Lolley fancies playing centre forward. Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/92070/james-vaughan?page=3&scrollTo=1566277#ixzz398JvRUKJ< Wells went off crocked. Ward took over his one up front role (I think Ward is actually quite well suited to a one up front role perhaps more so than Wells as he is a bit stronger and better in the air - though we shouldn't be wanging aerial balls up to either of them) and Lolley played wide right. Problem when anyone plays upfront for Town is that we still seem to revert to trying to hit them with long high balls - despite our attempts at the passing game. Hope Madjewski is the answer to that problem although I wonder how far we get into the Bmouth game before one is launched towards him as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:00:14 GMT 1
The longer this drags on, the more weight falls behind the rumour I heard last year that JV has a psychological issue. I stress, that was all it was, a rumour. But, looking at what has happened, and the performances Vaughan has managed since his sending off against Leicester, the more it appears to be a contributing factor in his absence. Even Dean said that he couldn't cope with the responsibilities of the captaincy, which affected his game. Added to that, the description of his injuries coming from the club always seem to be vague, ambiguous and relatively minor on the face of it, yet they keep him out for weeks or months. Something ain't right, and its not James Vaughans calf. Not often we agree, better not make it a habit.....
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Post by RickDangerous on Aug 1, 2014 11:04:42 GMT 1
If it was as simple as that we would've done it. What's the point in playing someone who isn't up to fitness? It'd only be detrimental to the team. Of all the players I think Vaughan is one who would likely rush back into the squad despite not being fully fit. Fact is, he isn't fit most of the time. It certainly isn't a case of the club protecting him or Vaughan kicking up a fuss over nothing. Yeah but alot that comes out of the club is, he has a tight calf, he felt a twinge in training etc etc. If I had a sore calf, played 90 minutes after 2-3 it would be fine, Day after it would be fucked..... but unless there was something serious other than a sore calf, Id be right by wed or thurs. A sore calf is no reason to miss a game, a calf strain.... just, torn calf, fine. Just seems we wrap him up in cotton wool and he still falls to bits. Maybe we should work him harder, get him stronger and hope for the best. What differnce would it make? the current method is obviously failing, and at least he would be missing for a proper reason if it failed. Who do you play for? We'll be better wrapping him in cotton wool hoping he sorts himself out, starts the season well then with abit of luck stays injury free - flog him to Celtic for a couple of million in Jan.
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Batman
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Post by Batman on Aug 1, 2014 11:06:22 GMT 1
We desperately need to look at other options that are available to us, even if it involves a fee. Would paying under a million for a league one striker who shone last season be a solution? Perhaps. I think we need an Alan Lee type player who is good in the air and a lot more agile!
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Aug 1, 2014 11:06:38 GMT 1
The longer this drags on, the more weight falls behind the rumour I heard last year that JV has a psychological issue. Not often we agree, better not make it a habit..... Understandable I think with his injury record. He's built a career on his physical commitment yet its that physical commitment which causes all his injury problems and his future in the game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:08:16 GMT 1
Town just released statement to confirm Vaughan will miss Oldham game and unsure how long will be out for. Maybe 2 days, or 2 weeks. Surely Robins must be looking into bringing a new striker in. Totally agree. Need to get off to a good start - would be foolish of us to be starting with pato or ward alongside wells - we know it doesn't work and we struggle to win games with those combinations end of story. Given Vaughan's had so much time on the sidelines in pre season and missed the friendlies he'll probably not be sharp enough to start anyway. Has to be a target man as well.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 11:08:33 GMT 1
If it was as simple as that we would've done it. What's the point in playing someone who isn't up to fitness? It'd only be detrimental to the team. Of all the players I think Vaughan is one who would likely rush back into the squad despite not being fully fit. Fact is, he isn't fit most of the time. It certainly isn't a case of the club protecting him or Vaughan kicking up a fuss over nothing. Yeah but alot that comes out of the club is, he has a tight calf, he felt a twinge in training etc etc. If I had a sore calf, played 90 minutes after 2-3 it would be fine, Day after it would be fucked..... but unless there was something serious other than a sore calf, Id be right by wed or thurs. A sore calf is no reason to miss a game, a calf strain.... just, torn calf, fine. Just seems we wrap him up in cotton wool and he still falls to bits. Maybe we should work him harder, get him stronger and hope for the best. What differnce would it make? the current method is obviously failing, and at least he would be missing for a proper reason if it failed. That's a massive oversimplification though, isn't it? If we take what is happening at face value, without the conjecture of it being something else (psych issues or whatever) then what we have is a player who has always had injuries telling our medical team that he is feeling something, them assessing it and everyone deciding that it;s best not to risk things. A sore/tight muscle may be a sign that, without the correct preventative and remiedial action, something mch worse could happen. You can;t really blame Vaughan, as anyone who's seen him play in a Town shirt can see he is committed to the cause - this is not someone just looking to earn a quick buck for doing nowt. Clearly we knew his issues when we took him on a permanent deal. Deano is savvy enough to have structured the contract in teh right way to reward appearances and protect us for any long lay offs. What worries me is how often, historically, players have impressed on loan and then (for whatever reason) once permanent they never quite measure up to what they promised. Pav, Ward, Vaughan spring immediately to mind. We need to sign another, and frankly we have known that all summer. I'd be inclined to offer Stead 50% of his contract to be released, possibly the same with Pato - cut and run and then get someone else in.
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grist
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 11:08:36 GMT 1
We can't rely on Jv to be fit for more than 10-15 games a season. It's not the lads fault it's just how it is... Football is about scoring goals. Far too many times the ball goes out wide but there is nothing in the middle . Wells on his own was painful to watch at times. No matter what E4 and his cohorts says Ward is not the answer. Pato is a no go... So if we don't sign a striker we are going to be chopping and changing, searching for the best alternative till Vaughan gets fit. Then when he gets fit he will need games to get him up to speed, then he will get injured again.. It's how it's been for two years now. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes but surely there must be a better plan than "hope vaughany is fit and if he isn't go with what we've got" .... That approach has bottom end of the table written all over it I'm afraid Ward is not the answer?? He ended up our league top scorer last season having only played a few games 'up front'. unfortunately there are a lot of short sighted fans who cannot see his potential in that position.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 11:13:09 GMT 1
well we have to do something
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Post by Sio on Aug 1, 2014 11:16:13 GMT 1
Yeah but alot that comes out of the club is, he has a tight calf, he felt a twinge in training etc etc. If I had a sore calf, played 90 minutes after 2-3 it would be fine, Day after it would be fucked..... but unless there was something serious other than a sore calf, Id be right by wed or thurs. A sore calf is no reason to miss a game, a calf strain.... just, torn calf, fine. Just seems we wrap him up in cotton wool and he still falls to bits. Maybe we should work him harder, get him stronger and hope for the best. What differnce would it make? the current method is obviously failing, and at least he would be missing for a proper reason if it failed. That's a massive oversimplification though, isn't it? If we take what is happening at face value, without the conjecture of it being something else (psych issues or whatever) then what we have is a player who has always had injuries telling our medical team that he is feeling something, them assessing it and everyone deciding that it;s best not to risk things. A sore/tight muscle may be a sign that, without the correct preventative and remiedial action, something mch worse could happen. You can;t really blame Vaughan, as anyone who's seen him play in a Town shirt can see he is committed to the cause - this is not someone just looking to earn a quick buck for doing nowt. Clearly we knew his issues when we took him on a permanent deal. Deano is savvy enough to have structured the contract in teh right way to reward appearances and protect us for any long lay offs. What worries me is how often, historically, players have impressed on loan and then (for whatever reason) once permanent they never quite measure up to what they promised. Pav, Ward, Vaughan spring immediately to mind. We need to sign another, and frankly we have known that all summer. I'd be inclined to offer Stead 50% of his contract to be released, possibly the same with Pato - cut and run and then get someone else in. Bit harsh on Pav, didn't he bag nearly 30 in his second season?
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grist
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 11:17:50 GMT 1
Yeah but alot that comes out of the club is, he has a tight calf, he felt a twinge in training etc etc. If I had a sore calf, played 90 minutes after 2-3 it would be fine, Day after it would be fucked..... but unless there was something serious other than a sore calf, Id be right by wed or thurs. A sore calf is no reason to miss a game, a calf strain.... just, torn calf, fine. Just seems we wrap him up in cotton wool and he still falls to bits. Maybe we should work him harder, get him stronger and hope for the best. What differnce would it make? the current method is obviously failing, and at least he would be missing for a proper reason if it failed. That's a massive oversimplification though, isn't it? If we take what is happening at face value, without the conjecture of it being something else (psych issues or whatever) then what we have is a player who has always had injuries telling our medical team that he is feeling something, them assessing it and everyone deciding that it;s best not to risk things. A sore/tight muscle may be a sign that, without the correct preventative and remiedial action, something mch worse could happen. You can;t really blame Vaughan, as anyone who's seen him play in a Town shirt can see he is committed to the cause - this is not someone just looking to earn a quick buck for doing nowt. Clearly we knew his issues when we took him on a permanent deal. Deano is savvy enough to have structured the contract in teh right way to reward appearances and protect us for any long lay offs. What worries me is how often, historically, players have impressed on loan and then (for whatever reason) once permanent they never quite measure up to what they promised. Pav, Ward, Vaughan spring immediately to mind. We need to sign another, and frankly we have known that all summer. I'd be inclined to offer Stead 50% of his contract to be released, possibly the same with Pato - cut and run and then get someone else in. Good comments IMO. To me Vaughan is a waste of a healthy salary and he delivers for such a short period of time. You can always pick up 'slight strains' on an ultrasound scan so why do we not verify his honesty, or otherwise. It is getting beyond a joke and unless his attitude/injury record improves, he is going to become very unpopular here
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Aug 1, 2014 11:24:31 GMT 1
The longer this drags on, the more weight falls behind the rumour I heard last year that JV has a psychological issue. I stress, that was all it was, a rumour. But, looking at what has happened, and the performances Vaughan has managed since his sending off against Leicester, the more it appears to be a contributing factor in his absence. Even Dean said that he couldn't cope with the responsibilities of the captaincy, which affected his game. Added to that, the description of his injuries coming from the club always seem to be vague, ambiguous and relatively minor on the face of it, yet they keep him out for weeks or months. Something ain't right, and its not James Vaughans calf. I know what you're getting at, but maybe it's a psychological problem in a slightly different way? Maybe these injuries are all actually in his head? Perhaps with all these times being injured he has convinced himself that he's an injury prone player and now any minor thing is made to seem bigger to him as he's being overly cautious, or he's feeling things that aren't even there? When he came to us on loan he saw it as a fresh start - he was happy and determined to do well, which he did, and he stayed healthy for the whole season. That continued after signing permanently and he had a good pre-season followed by a great start to the season. Then he gets a red card and is out of action for a few weeks which knocks his confidence and self-belief and all of a sudden he keeps getting injuries. Of course this could all be a load of balls as I'm not a medical professional... but it makes sense in my head
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 1, 2014 11:26:09 GMT 1
Wells playing up front on his own would be great if we actually play to his strengths. This requires the ball to be moved quickly forward to the half way line and for midfielders at that location to move forward, commit people and play controlled passes inside full backs and between central defenders for Wells or others to run onto. As we rarely do this and take a lifetime to get the ball into the opponents half, either under control or a long punt, he looks lost.
He used to play off Hanson using Bradfords longer ball, he still had to be quick and on the move and aware, don't see why he could not have similar success playing 'off' Clayton or Majewski using the shorter, much more accurate, passing game?
Ward is under rated due to the amount of each game where he is as lost as anyone else, but it looks worse when there is only you in a great big expanse of pitch, whereas the others are all holding hands too far back but can 'hide' in numbers..
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 1, 2014 11:26:34 GMT 1
We can't rely on Jv to be fit for more than 10-15 games a season. It's not the lads fault it's just how it is... Football is about scoring goals. Far too many times the ball goes out wide but there is nothing in the middle . Wells on his own was painful to watch at times. No matter what E4 and his cohorts says Ward is not the answer. Pato is a no go... So if we don't sign a striker we are going to be chopping and changing, searching for the best alternative till Vaughan gets fit. Then when he gets fit he will need games to get him up to speed, then he will get injured again.. It's how it's been for two years now. We don't know what's going on behind the scenes but surely there must be a better plan than "hope vaughany is fit and if he isn't go with what we've got" .... That approach has bottom end of the table written all over it I'm afraid Ward is not the answer?? He ended up our league top scorer last season having only played a few games 'up front'. unfortunately there are a lot of short sighted fans who cannot see his potential in that position. Oh for god sake. Do you ever go to matches ? You honestly think Danny Ward can do that job and we don't need to sign anyone else if Vaughan is absent? Well that's fine , quote the stats, allow a soft hat trick at Watford to obscure your vision... Ward will always chip in with a few goals.. If he is fit n firing he can be a threat at times.. But he will never ever score 20 goals. Or contribute to the extent needed for town to push on IMO. Not a hope in hell.. He's been here three years. If you want to bury your head in the sand in some kind of blind faith exercise then go for it. But I'm not having it
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 11:36:14 GMT 1
Ward is not the answer?? He ended up our league top scorer last season having only played a few games 'up front'. unfortunately there are a lot of short sighted fans who cannot see his potential in that position. Oh for god sake. Do you ever go to matches ? You honestly think Danny Ward can do that job and we don't need to sign anyone else if Vaughan is absent? Well that's fine , quote the stats, allow a soft hat trick at Watford to obscure your vision... Ward will always chip in with a few goals.. If he is fit n firing he can be a threat at times.. But he will never ever score 20 goals. Or contribute to the extent needed for town to push on IMO. Not a hope in hell.. He's been here three years. If you want to bury your head in the sand in some kind of blind faith exercise then go for it. But I'm not having it Agree with all of this - Ward up front last year was excellent and consistent in one are - getting into very promising positions and spunking them away. I have nothing against him but he's not going to be a natural striker as long as I have a hole in my arse.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 11:41:54 GMT 1
That's a massive oversimplification though, isn't it? If we take what is happening at face value, without the conjecture of it being something else (psych issues or whatever) then what we have is a player who has always had injuries telling our medical team that he is feeling something, them assessing it and everyone deciding that it;s best not to risk things. A sore/tight muscle may be a sign that, without the correct preventative and remiedial action, something mch worse could happen. You can;t really blame Vaughan, as anyone who's seen him play in a Town shirt can see he is committed to the cause - this is not someone just looking to earn a quick buck for doing nowt. Clearly we knew his issues when we took him on a permanent deal. Deano is savvy enough to have structured the contract in teh right way to reward appearances and protect us for any long lay offs. What worries me is how often, historically, players have impressed on loan and then (for whatever reason) once permanent they never quite measure up to what they promised. Pav, Ward, Vaughan spring immediately to mind. We need to sign another, and frankly we have known that all summer. I'd be inclined to offer Stead 50% of his contract to be released, possibly the same with Pato - cut and run and then get someone else in. Bit harsh on Pav, didn't he bag nearly 30 in his second season? Pssoibly a bit harsh, especially as I liked him, but he didn't do it long enough - probably becuase he beleived the hype he was getting - him and Lee Trundle were both appearing every few weeks on Soccar AM's showboat and his head disappearde up his own arse a bit IMO. He got 4 goals in 6 on loan, (2 every 3 games) and this moved to 2 in 5 games afetr he signed. PErhaps very harsh but I always remember him as a disappointment. I suppose Phil Jevons wuold have been a better argument - 2 goals in an 8 game loan spell and then just 7 more in the next season and a half after signing permantently
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Post by Sio on Aug 1, 2014 11:44:58 GMT 1
Bit harsh on Pav, didn't he bag nearly 30 in his second season? Pssoibly a bit harsh, especially as I liked him, but he didn't do it long enough - probably becuase he beleived the hype he was getting - him and Lee Trundle were both appearing every few weeks on Soccar AM's showboat and his head disappearde up his own arse a bit IMO. He got 4 goals in 6 on loan, (2 every 3 games) and this moved to 2 in 5 games afetr he signed. PErhaps very harsh but I always remember him as a disappointment. I suppose Phil Jevons wuold have been a better argument - 2 goals in an 8 game loan spell and then just 7 more in the next season and a half after signing permantently I think after the first couple of seasons he did begin to disappoint, but I thought he showed some proper class in his first two years with us. Remember some cracking goals. Not sure what changed- perhaps you're right re: mentality.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 1, 2014 11:52:41 GMT 1
I think we all know that Danny is not the answer. Vaughan clearly isn't going to be the complete answer and Paterson/Stead wasn't even asking the right question.
We cant afford/attract a 20 plus goal striker, so we really should go down the road of bringing in a big lad who can make goals for others(Wells especially) and gives us something to aim for from the wide areas and if necessary from longer balls. All subject to Vaughans availability of course..
I believe the above is as clear as day and that the club have to address it.
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