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Post by 3Pipe on Aug 1, 2014 14:46:23 GMT 1
@superlopez are you going to have a meltdown every Friday? Eyes up.... another bully. You can't manage your meltdowns obviously, we spent so long protecting you from meltdowns that we may as well just let the meltdown happen and then let it repair.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 14:48:07 GMT 1
I'm not sure anyone has said Ward is not talented. He is clearly a decent enough attacking midfielder/winger. But by playing him as a striker we are ramming a square peg into a very round hole. He does not have the natural finishing ability - it's not often you get someone at his age learning a new position at a relatively high level of football, and to be honest it's never the msot desirable option, as if a player is good enough to learn a new position you'll still get better results from them in their natural position. For example, playing Wayne Rooney out wide is ok, but he'll never be as good there as through the middle. United also used Scholes as a makeshift striker on occasion, noatably when he nroke into the team, but he was always better in the middle of the park. And no, before the predicatble happens, I am not comparing Ward to Scholes or Rooney. I am merely using them as examples of players who, arguably, would be capable in most outfield roles but were/are always be best in tehir natural, preferred role. wasn't ward a striker before someone tried to make him into a winger? I'd say he's more at home up top than stuck out on the wing. Where someone plays when they are in yuoth football is not my point, and you kknow it - he came to us as a winger, is established as such and it is unrealistic to expect him ~(at 23) to learn a new role. You can try and pick holes in my argument as much as you like, but he's only ever scored goals at 2 clubs - Swindon on loan and here, and he broke through professionally as a winger. He averages 1 in 5 for us, had a much better return last year but how many of his unbelievable return of 10 goals did he score whilst playing as a striker? And the last 3 were in a dead rubber and papered over the obvious cracks. How many chances did he miss? I have nothing against him, but you will never convince me his best position is not as a winger, or that he can be a first choice striker. Go back to your balls, crystal or otherwise.
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 1, 2014 14:53:06 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k)
Honestly, which stats are the best?
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 14:53:16 GMT 1
Tedious, that's a laugh coming from you. I haven't a clue who E4 is, so you are making yourself look even more stupid than you already look. It's idiots like you who stop a confidence player like Ward performing as he might, so I hop you are happy with your contribution to HTAFC Never booed the lad, or any town player, in my life. am I not allowed an opinion? As far as I am concerned, you are certainly allowed an opinion and your opinions are welcome It is just how you express them that occasionally grates a bit. Join me in the non-booing club
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 1, 2014 14:54:22 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k) Honestly, which stats are the best? *Vaughan 56 appearances not 54.
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 14:57:16 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k) Honestly, which stats are the best? Alex Smithies doesn't score many, so perhaps he should be dropped. There is much more to playing than scoring goals, and if you are not playing, you are contributing nothing.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 1, 2014 15:00:27 GMT 1
Robins likes Ward. Given that obvious fact, all of us whichever side we fall on about Danny's talents will have to put up with him either being in the team or first change on most occasions. Hopefully, whoever gets picked, the actual team start to play to our strengths and Wards certainly are not as an isolated wide player or lone front man.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 1, 2014 15:06:07 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k) Honestly, which stats are the best? Alex Smithies doesn't score many, so perhaps he should be dropped. There is much more to playing than scoring goals, and if you are not playing, you are contributing nothing. True, but when Vaughan isn't playing.... somebody else is!! In other words, if you're not in the matchday squad, you're not taking up the space that another player otherwise would. Measuring a striker on goals scored seems reasonable as well, to be fair.
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 15:06:15 GMT 1
Robins likes Ward. Given that obvious fact, all of us whichever side we fall on about Danny's talents will have to put up with him either being in the team or first change on most occasions. Hopefully, whoever gets picked, the actual team start to play to our strengths and Wards certainly are not as an isolated wide player or lone front man. Isolated striker ..never, I couldn't agree more. A bit wasted on the wing, but just behind the main striker he causes nightmares for the defending team.
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Post by AndySk on Aug 1, 2014 15:12:23 GMT 1
This thread has gone moronic, hard and fast.
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Post by 5kippy on Aug 1, 2014 15:14:43 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k) Honestly, which stats are the best? Alex Smithies doesn't score many, so perhaps he should be dropped. There is much more to playing than scoring goals, and if you are not playing, you are contributing nothing. But he scored the one that mattered, at Wembley!
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 1, 2014 15:21:39 GMT 1
Not only do I go to matches as a season ticket holder, I also go there with my eyes open and my brain in gear. If there is anyone with their head in the sand (or worse) it is you. You clearly have never played football to a decent level, otherwise you would be able to realise how raw talent can develop into something outstanding. I'm not sure anyone has said Ward is not talented. He is clearly a decent enough attacking midfielder/winger. But by playing him as a striker we are ramming a square peg into a very round hole. He does not have the natural finishing ability - it's not often you get someone at his age learning a new position at a relatively high level of football, and to be honest it's never the msot desirable option, as if a player is good enough to learn a new position you'll still get better results from them in their natural position. For example, playing Wayne Rooney out wide is ok, but he'll never be as good there as through the middle. United also used Scholes as a makeshift striker on occasion, noatably when he nroke into the team, but he was always better in the middle of the park. And no, before the predicatble happens, I am not comparing Ward to Scholes or Rooney. I am merely using them as examples of players who, arguably, would be capable in most outfield roles but were/are always be best in tehir natural, preferred role. Gareth Bale is better in the position he was converted to than he was in his original position. In a bit of a reversal, Graeme Le Saux was better in the position he was converted to than his original position too. Chris Sutton was better up front than in his original position of CB. Ward was converted from striker to winger. So was Thierry Henry, and he did ok when Arsenal converted him back to his original position. Oh, and before anybody jumps on the bandwagon & tells me that Ward isn't as good as Gareth Bale or Thierry Henry - I already know that. He's better.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Aug 1, 2014 15:26:55 GMT 1
Let's put things into perspective here.. Johnny Russell who signed for Derby at the start of last season made 39 appearances & scored a whopping 9 goals in the league (ยฃ750k) Leon Best, signed for Blackburn around the same time as Vaughan. Made 13 appearances in the league scoring 2 goals (ยฃ3m) played a further 15 games on loan to Sheff W & scored 4. James Vaughan 54 appearances in the league scoring 24 goals (ยฃ600k) Honestly, which stats are the best? Alex Smithies doesn't score many, so perhaps he should be dropped. There is much more to playing than scoring goals, and if you are not playing, you are contributing nothing. When he's playing Vaughan contributes far more than goals which is maybe partly the reason why he picks up so many injuries with his combative style. The daft thing about this thread is that if Vaughan starts the season against Bournemouth and scores, everybody will be creaming themselves again over what a fantastic player he is.
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Post by townatheart on Aug 1, 2014 15:35:16 GMT 1
Alex Smithies doesn't score many, so perhaps he should be dropped. There is much more to playing than scoring goals, and if you are not playing, you are contributing nothing. But he scored the one that mattered, at Wembley! you see if you wade through enough bull puckey you are eventually rewarded with something sensible
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 16:08:46 GMT 1
I'm not sure anyone has said Ward is not talented. He is clearly a decent enough attacking midfielder/winger. But by playing him as a striker we are ramming a square peg into a very round hole. He does not have the natural finishing ability - it's not often you get someone at his age learning a new position at a relatively high level of football, and to be honest it's never the msot desirable option, as if a player is good enough to learn a new position you'll still get better results from them in their natural position. For example, playing Wayne Rooney out wide is ok, but he'll never be as good there as through the middle. United also used Scholes as a makeshift striker on occasion, noatably when he nroke into the team, but he was always better in the middle of the park. And no, before the predicatble happens, I am not comparing Ward to Scholes or Rooney. I am merely using them as examples of players who, arguably, would be capable in most outfield roles but were/are always be best in tehir natural, preferred role. Gareth Bale is better in the position he was converted to than he was in his original position. In a bit of a reversal, Graeme Le Saux was better in the position he was converted to than his original position too. Chris Sutton was better up front than in his original position of CB. Ward was converted from striker to winger. So was Thierry Henry, and he did ok when Arsenal converted him back to his original position. Oh, and before anybody jumps on the bandwagon & tells me that Ward isn't as good as Gareth Bale or Thierry Henry - I already know that. He's better. There's always some tosspot who ruins things by winning the argument with logic and impirical evidence, isn't there. (And no, Lopez, it's never you.) Fair ply UWH......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 16:13:29 GMT 1
Gareth Bale is better in the position he was converted to than he was in his original position. In a bit of a reversal, Graeme Le Saux was better in the position he was converted to than his original position too. Chris Sutton was better up front than in his original position of CB. Ward was converted from striker to winger. So was Thierry Henry, and he did ok when Arsenal converted him back to his original position. Oh, and before anybody jumps on the bandwagon & tells me that Ward isn't as good as Gareth Bale or Thierry Henry - I already know that. He's better. There's always some tosspot who ruins things by winning the argument with logic and impirical evidence, isn't there. (And no, Lopez, it's never you.) Fair ply UWH...... But on the contrary, I could find examples of players who were converted to a position and were flipping terrible there Ward is steady away in any position, nothing more nothing less. Mid to bottom half Championship is his level
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 16:14:54 GMT 1
I agree. I don't think anyone could ever convert Dwayne Mattis into a midfielder, for example....his best position was always behind the counter serving hot dogs....
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Aug 1, 2014 16:24:25 GMT 1
Not only do I go to matches as a season ticket holder, I also go there with my eyes open and my brain in gear. If there is anyone with their head in the sand (or worse) it is you. You clearly have never played football to a decent level, otherwise you would be able to realise how raw talent can develop into something outstanding. I'm not sure anyone has said Ward is not talented. He is clearly a decent enough attacking midfielder/winger. But by playing him as a striker we are ramming a square peg into a very round hole. He does not have the natural finishing ability - it's not often you get someone at his age learning a new position at a relatively high level of football, and to be honest it's never the msot desirable option, as if a player is good enough to learn a new position you'll still get better results from them in their natural position. For example, playing Wayne Rooney out wide is ok, but he'll never be as good there as through the middle. United also used Scholes as a makeshift striker on occasion, noatably when he nroke into the team, but he was always better in the middle of the park. And no, before the predicatble happens, I am not comparing Ward to Scholes or Rooney. I am merely using them as examples of players who, arguably, would be capable in most outfield roles but were/are always be best in tehir natural, preferred role. Scholes started off as a striker who ended up a midfielder didn't he?
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 16:27:11 GMT 1
he certainly was at Swindon on loan and they used to him. We just have too many people who are never happy unless they are criticising, and they are ruining our club. The likes of Arfield and many others who have left the club to get away from the negative faction and have done well elsewhere.How many others? I don't think Town fans are often wrong on players. Ward has persistently underperformed at Town. He looked great in his loan spell and has had some great games since, but generally he doesn't look fully up to scratch. Everybody knew Arfield had some talent in him but he rarely ever showed it at Town, so why would we keep him? He'd have never performed for us as he's done for Burnley even if he'd stayed. And FWIW I think he'll soon find his level again at Champ/L1 level. You emphasize my point. Airfield became so scared of the fan's reaction that he started hiding from the ball. Ward,is persistently held back by the boo boys and does better away from home. IMO Town fans are frequently wrong on players , but a bandwagon is a bandwagon and once you have nailed your colours to its mast,there is little chance of you changing your views
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 16:32:43 GMT 1
But he scored the one that mattered, at Wembley! you see if you wade through enough bull puckey you are eventually rewarded with something sensible How does something virtually irrelevant to the argument make it sensible?
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 1, 2014 16:36:32 GMT 1
you see if you wade through enough bull puckey you are eventually rewarded with something sensible How does something virtually irrelevant to the argument make it sensible?It's the DATM way....
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 1, 2014 17:00:47 GMT 1
The crowd being responsible for Arfield not being able to pass the ball five yards.. I've heard it all now. Were we also responsible for the demise of Keigan Parker and Kwame Houdouto ? .. And how did Beckham manage to forge a career for himself after people burning effigies of him post France 98 ?
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 1, 2014 17:02:35 GMT 1
Gareth Bale is better in the position he was converted to than he was in his original position. In a bit of a reversal, Graeme Le Saux was better in the position he was converted to than his original position too. Chris Sutton was better up front than in his original position of CB. Ward was converted from striker to winger. So was Thierry Henry, and he did ok when Arsenal converted him back to his original position. Oh, and before anybody jumps on the bandwagon & tells me that Ward isn't as good as Gareth Bale or Thierry Henry - I already know that. He's better. There's always some tosspot who ruins things by winning the argument with logic and impirical evidence, isn't there. (And no, Lopez, it's never you.) Fair ply UWH...... And to think I was just picking those examples to be awkward! Aside from a few players moving into a sweeper role as they got older (e.g. Ruud Gullit), I can't think of many more examples that help my case tbh, and I don't think Ward will buck that particular trend.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 1, 2014 17:04:47 GMT 1
The crowd being responsible for Arfield not being able to pass the ball five yards.. I've heard it all now. Were we also responsible for the demise of Keigan Parker and Kwame Houdouto ? .. And how did Beckham manage to forge a career for himself after people burning effigies of him post France 98 ? I think it's fair to say that crowd reactions can have an effect on a player's performance. I also think it's fair to say that some players are more affected by it than others.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 1, 2014 17:05:55 GMT 1
The crowd being responsible for Arfield not being able to pass the ball five yards.. I've heard it all now. Were we also responsible for the demise of Keigan Parker and Kwame Houdouto ? .. And how did Beckham manage to forge a career for himself after people burning effigies of him post France 98 ? I think it's fair to say that crowd reactions can have an effect on a player's performance. I also think it's fair to say that some players are more affected by it than others. I also think its fair to say that in a general comparison to other clubs town fans are pretty fair minded
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 1, 2014 17:16:30 GMT 1
I think it's fair to say that crowd reactions can have an effect on a player's performance. I also think it's fair to say that some players are more affected by it than others. I also think its fair to say that in a general comparison to other clubs town fans are pretty fair minded In some ways, yes - although in comparison to other clubs we're often reticent to make much noise (at home anyway) until the players produce something.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 18:13:12 GMT 1
What the hell is wrong with you people? Every thread now is just you morons arguing with each other instead of a discussion even remotely related to the title. This is my Eastenders. Pull up a chair and enjoy the show.
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Post by Colt Seavers on Aug 1, 2014 18:24:41 GMT 1
Soft as shit are footballers, slightest knock and they are out, man up or fuck off.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 1, 2014 18:46:46 GMT 1
colt..
they are finely tuned athletes and as such any small injury can be devastating, added to them being soft as shite and this is what you get.
the amount of handbaggery that takes place on the pitch aligned with the ridiculous very late challenges which are not commited face to face plus the overwhelming desire of footballers these days to assault females both physically and sexually and you have it in a nutshell..
not tarring them all with the same brush but the incidents as related above are getting more and more frequent.
it seems since the term 'mans game' was removed from football and tackling was outlawed in favour of shirt pulling and diving/rolling about the general manliness of the profession has been eroded somewhat?
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grist
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Post by grist on Aug 1, 2014 23:04:44 GMT 1
The crowd being responsible for Arfield not being able to pass the ball five yards.. I've heard it all now. Were we also responsible for the demise of Keigan Parker and Kwame Houdouto ? .. And how did Beckham manage to forge a career for himself after people burning effigies of him post France 98 ? Being responsible, and encouraging are two separate things. Encouragement can produce serious improvement in some players and similarly, criticism can have the reverse effect. There is a hard core of supporters who for some unfathomed reason are against Ward, and it is them that my wrath is directed against, not you!
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