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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 7, 2015 15:14:52 GMT 1
the ground regulations cover the clubs for anything that may now go wrong.. like I said they took legal advice after some clubs were warned re persistent standing..
you might be able to sue individuals who are identified as standing and pushing etc but not the club.. get out..
keep saying wait till the enquiry is over...one person, one seat will be somewhere in the findings..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 15:21:15 GMT 1
the ground regulations cover the clubs for anything that may now go wrong.. like I said they took legal advice after some clubs were warned re persistent standing.. you might be able to sue individuals who are identified as standing and pushing etc but not the club.. get out.. keep saying wait till the enquiry is over...one person, one seat will be somewhere in the findings.. Really wish you would use the bloody quote button.
I assume you're referring to the Hillsborough enquiry? It should have no effect or relevance. Grimsby Town can have safe standing, why can't we? The government forbid football to use Safe Standing, yet Rugby can use Safe standing. Double standards?
The law is a joke, its not water tight.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 7, 2015 15:53:55 GMT 1
I don't think we are talking about the law..
the recommendations and findings of the enquiry will be accepted by those who matter.
you are still asking politicians to revert back to a system(wether you have new standing/seats) or not, where there were tragedies, from a system that hasn't..
clearly the seating system works, even with the amount of standing that goes on.. its a big ask of a politician..
im a fan of standing as you know but have had lots of dealings with politicians of all colours over the last 10 years..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2015 16:12:43 GMT 1
I don't think we are talking about the law.. the recommendations and findings of the enquiry will be accepted by those who matter. you are still asking politicians to revert back to a system(wether you have new standing/seats) or not, where there were tragedies, from a system that hasn't.. clearly the seating system works, even with the amount of standing that goes on.. its a big ask of a politician.. im a fan of standing as you know but have had lots of dealings with politicians of all colours over the last 10 years.. But it shouldnt to be for a politician to decide, it should be down to those that run football. Somebody needs to grab this safe standing by the balls. To much pussy footing around.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 19:26:08 GMT 1
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jun 9, 2015 19:29:13 GMT 1
Congratulations to the SPL for seeing sense & doing the right thing by the fans!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 19:31:10 GMT 1
Was listening to this news breaking on Hawksbee and Jacobs and Andy Jacobs reaction was hopeless. "On the one hand I can see why clubs want to do it, as it will increase capacity and lead to cheaper tickets ........ but then you have to consider the families of those affected at Hillsborough, Glasgow Rangers etc...." Shit scared to put his weight behind the campaign for safe standing because of the tragedy at Sheffield.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jun 9, 2015 19:48:14 GMT 1
When are people going to get past this bollocks that standing is not inherently unsafe...Hillsborough was caused by police incompetence, nit because standing is unsafe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 19:55:13 GMT 1
When are people going to get past this bollocks that standing is not inherently unsafe...Hillsborough was caused by police incompetence, nit because standing is unsafe. There were other factors as well, unfair to blame it solely on the police, but it is annoying that 26 years later, we cant address the issue of safe standing without people making the immediate assumption that there is a risk that we will encourage another hillsborough. I never sat down at a football match last season, home and the few away games I attended.
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Post by benmsmith4 on Oct 8, 2015 0:59:46 GMT 1
Anyone know where we are with this? It'll be a painfully slow process but I don't doubt that we will have safe standing at some point, just needs to get past all the buraucracy and reactionary forces.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 9:18:11 GMT 1
tbf you have to stand at Grimsby,or your jeans will smell of fish,it doesn't really affect women wearing skirts
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 8, 2015 9:56:03 GMT 1
Anyone know where we are with this? It'll be a painfully slow process but I don't doubt that we will have safe standing at some point, just needs to get past all the buraucracy and reactionary forces. ben.. if you call the enquiry or anyone that has anything to do with it 'reactionary forces' you will be accused of disrespect at the very least.. they dont have a great argument when all the new regulations are put to them but they have the powerful 'emotive argument'... i have to be honest if 96 had died at a bundeslega match I reckon they may not be standing there now..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 10:32:39 GMT 1
the ground regulations cover the clubs for anything that may now go wrong.. like I said they took legal advice after some clubs were warned re persistent standing.. you might be able to sue individuals who are identified as standing and pushing etc but not the club.. get out.. keep saying wait till the enquiry is over...one person, one seat will be somewhere in the findings.. Really wish you would use the bloody quote button.
I assume you're referring to the Hillsborough enquiry? It should have no effect or relevance. Grimsby Town can have safe standing, why can't we? The government forbid football to use Safe Standing, yet Rugby can use Safe standing. Double standards?
The law is a joke, its not water tight.
The law *is* water tight. Standing at football matches *IS* legal and allowed and always had been under UK law. The only related legal stipulation is that grounds have to have seats...no law prescribes that the seats have to be used. That's why it's stewards that try and prevent people from standing, not police.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 11:08:28 GMT 1
Really wish you would use the bloody quote button.
I assume you're referring to the Hillsborough enquiry? It should have no effect or relevance. Grimsby Town can have safe standing, why can't we? The government forbid football to use Safe Standing, yet Rugby can use Safe standing. Double standards?
The law is a joke, its not water tight.
The law *is* water tight. Standing at football matches *IS* legal and allowed and always had been under UK law. The only related legal stipulation is that grounds have to have seats...no law prescribes that the seats have to be used. That's why it's stewards that try and prevent people from standing, not police. read the FSF website on safe standing, trust me, the law is a joke and is not water tight.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 12:10:07 GMT 1
The law *is* water tight. Standing at football matches *IS* legal and allowed and always had been under UK law. The only related legal stipulation is that grounds have to have seats...no law prescribes that the seats have to be used. That's why it's stewards that try and prevent people from standing, not police. read the FSF website on safe standing, trust me, the law is a joke and is not water tight. The law is perfectly clear. From the FSF website... "The law only provides that ... clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them. The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ ". That certain groups (fans, manufacturers of rail seating etc etc) choose to continue to confuse that as part of their campaign message is flaw which continues to hold back the creation / adoption / acceptance of safe standing areas at football matches. We have two safe standing areas at Town, it cost nothing to implement. The cynic in me suggests certain folk would like to see rail seats become part of the legal law backed solution to the problem...its very odd to see sensible minded football fans just jumping into bed with these folk and backing them unconditionally without thinking about the end game.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2015 19:02:42 GMT 1
read the FSF website on safe standing, trust me, the law is a joke and is not water tight. The law is perfectly clear. From the FSF website... "The law only provides that ... clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them. The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ ". That certain groups (fans, manufacturers of rail seating etc etc) choose to continue to confuse that as part of their campaign message is flaw which continues to hold back the creation / adoption / acceptance of safe standing areas at football matches. We have two safe standing areas at Town, it cost nothing to implement. The cynic in me suggests certain folk would like to see rail seats become part of the legal law backed solution to the problem...its very odd to see sensible minded football fans just jumping into bed with these folk and backing them unconditionally without thinking about the end game. It isn't clear. It's a bullshit law. Why does the law only cover the top two divisions? Why does it allow standing for 'moments of excitement'? It's not water tight. www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/I've read it all about safe standing and I'm not convinced by the current rules and the reasons given as to why safe standing trials cannot be done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 12:53:55 GMT 1
Am defo in the safe standing/Rail seat camp.
Common sense says that rail seating sections would alleviate the problems we currently have where folk who want and expect to remain seated are mixed with folk who would prefer to stand by their seat.
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Post by benmsmith4 on Oct 10, 2015 13:05:06 GMT 1
Imagine installing rail seating in half the SS:
NSL folk can stand safely at home games Away fans can stand and not annoy any travelling fans that want to sit Increased revenue for the club for the extra away fans that rail seating would entail Less likely that away fans will occupy Kilner South at any point as rail seating will increase capacity of SS
Also half the SS would roughly equate to the 10% figure (of stadium capacity) suggested by the FSF for the amount of rail seats
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 10, 2015 13:06:13 GMT 1
The law is perfectly clear. From the FSF website... "The law only provides that ... clubs should provide seats for all supporters, not that supporters must sit on them. The point is confirmed by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport: ‘At no point has it been argued that the individual spectator commits a criminal offence by standing in a seated area’ ". That certain groups (fans, manufacturers of rail seating etc etc) choose to continue to confuse that as part of their campaign message is flaw which continues to hold back the creation / adoption / acceptance of safe standing areas at football matches. We have two safe standing areas at Town, it cost nothing to implement. The cynic in me suggests certain folk would like to see rail seats become part of the legal law backed solution to the problem...its very odd to see sensible minded football fans just jumping into bed with these folk and backing them unconditionally without thinking about the end game. It isn't clear. It's a bullshit law. Why does the law only cover the top two divisions? Why does it allow standing for 'moments of excitement'? It's not water tight. www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/I've read it all about safe standing and I'm not convinced by the current rules and the reasons given as to why safe standing trials cannot be done. Ben.. I dont think the law is the stumbling block to change..the past and interest groups certainly will be. some will class it as disrespect etc etc.. any group who can get totall exhonaration for the fans on that fateful day is a very powerfull lobby indeed..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:08:48 GMT 1
Am defo in the safe standing/Rail seat camp. Common sense says that rail seating sections would alleviate the problems we currently have where folk who want and expect to remain seated are mixed with folk who would prefer to stand by their seat. So how would that work exactly? I or somebody else decides to sit behind you who decides to stand. I would welcome and use rail standing sections myself but you cannot mix them, either all sitting sections or all standing sections not both in the same section surely.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:29:36 GMT 1
Come again ?
Read what I have written again eh.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:38:54 GMT 1
Imagine installing rail seating in half the SS: NSL folk can stand safely at home games Away fans can stand and not annoy any travelling fans that want to sit Increased revenue for the club for the extra away fans that rail seating would entail Less likely that away fans will occupy Kilner South at any point as rail seating will increase capacity of SS Also half the SS would roughly equate to the 10% figure (of stadium capacity) suggested by the FSF for the amount of rail seats Which half would you choose?
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 10, 2015 13:39:32 GMT 1
Why do we need to go to the expense of installing rails? Folk stand up in seated areas at games all over the country without falling over. The don't let folk in now who are falling over drunk, so to me it should just be a case of saying that a particular seated area is deemed to be a standing area also.
If they need to install rails then you might as well rip all the seats out and return to terracing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:42:23 GMT 1
Come again ? Read what I have written again eh. Are you another one that requires teaching how to use the quote button? What would be the point of seating in a rail standing section?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:43:16 GMT 1
Imagine installing rail seating in half the SS: NSL folk can stand safely at home games Away fans can stand and not annoy any travelling fans that want to sit Increased revenue for the club for the extra away fans that rail seating would entail Less likely that away fans will occupy Kilner South at any point as rail seating will increase capacity of SS Also half the SS would roughly equate to the 10% figure (of stadium capacity) suggested by the FSF for the amount of rail seats Which half would you choose?
You could easily remove all the seats from the top half of the SS and replace them with rail seating, No problems whatsoever with a section of rail seating above a section of sit down seating.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 13:49:08 GMT 1
Imagine installing rail seating in half the SS: NSL folk can stand safely at home games Away fans can stand and not annoy any travelling fans that want to sit Increased revenue for the club for the extra away fans that rail seating would entail Less likely that away fans will occupy Kilner South at any point as rail seating will increase capacity of SS Also half the SS would roughly equate to the 10% figure (of stadium capacity) suggested by the FSF for the amount of rail seats Which half would you choose? How does rail seating increase capacity? Surely a seat in rail seating will take up at least the same area?? Edit...Apologies nt. Question was aimed at bensmith4 and replied to further up the thread.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 10, 2015 14:09:11 GMT 1
Come again ? Read what I have written again eh. Are you another one that requires teaching how to use the quote button? What would be the point of seating in a rail standing section? is this the right way??
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 14:21:20 GMT 1
Are you another one that requires teaching how to use the quote button? What would be the point of seating in a rail standing section? is this the right way??
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Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 10, 2015 14:37:10 GMT 1
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COWSHEDPHIL
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Oct 10, 2015 14:38:21 GMT 1
Not sure why everyone thinks rail seating will increase capacity by so much!
Surely a rail seat will actually take up more, or at least the same space as a normal seat?
I think a lot of premier league clubs have actually said bringing in rail seating would actually reduce capacity. Places like old Trafford etc that cram you in like sardines.
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