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Post by benmsmith4 on Oct 10, 2015 15:14:45 GMT 1
All I know is that rail seating in Germany increases the capacity and it works, no one is hurt or put in danger and increased numbers of tickets sold means the price of the tickets is often lowered.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 15:41:30 GMT 1
Why do we need to go to the expense of installing rails? Folk stand up in seated areas at games all over the country without falling over. The don't let folk in now who are falling over drunk, so to me it should just be a case of saying that a particular seated area is deemed to be a standing area also. If they need to install rails then you might as well rip all the seats out and return to terracing. Now we're talking.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2015 16:18:43 GMT 1
Which half would you choose?
You could easily remove all the seats from the top half of the SS and replace them with rail seating, No problems whatsoever with a section of rail seating above a section of sit down seating.
Why should people who want to sit get the worse view?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 14:36:48 GMT 1
They shouldn't, And in all reality we have no need to remove and replace any existing seats with Rail seating.
We do however have a temporary stand that will need replacing at some point in the future.
We also do not have the expected amount of wheelchair/disabled viewing seats/areas for the size of our stadium.
When the FML is eventually replaced, Why not with Rail seating which may well satisfy those who want to remain stood throughout without incurring the wrath of those who want to sit, And surely we could incorporate a section with good views for those who are chairbound ?
Giants/RL fans would no doubt also welcome a rail seating section.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 14:59:06 GMT 1
Not sure why everyone thinks rail seating will increase capacity by so much! Surely a rail seat will actually take up more, or at least the same space as a normal seat? I think a lot of premier league clubs have actually said bringing in rail seating would actually reduce capacity. Places like old Trafford etc that cram you in like sardines. I don't think increasing capacity is really anything that concerns us when we typically have two seats for every person that attends!! What rail seats (or terracing) do mean is you can get more people into a smaller section...so you could maybe lose 500 seats from the wing of the South Stand and accommodate 700 folk standing in that same area. We'd still have 12000 empty spaces though, just with one small corner of folk squashed together.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 15:07:46 GMT 1
They shouldn't, And in all reality we have no need to remove and replace any existing seats with Rail seating. We do however have a temporary stand that will need replacing at some point in the future. We also do not have the expected amount of wheelchair/disabled viewing seats/areas for the size of our stadium. When the FML is eventually replaced, Why not with Rail seating which may well satisfy those who want to remain stood throughout without incurring the wrath of those who want to sit, And surely we could incorporate a section with good views for those who are chairbound ? Giants/RL fans would no doubt also welcome a rail seating section. My misunderstanding is that I thought with rail seats the seats are actually locked up in an unusable position, so you HAVE to stand. They are just something that meets the legal requirement for providing a "capability" of an all seater stadium.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 15:44:35 GMT 1
They shouldn't, And in all reality we have no need to remove and replace any existing seats with Rail seating. We do however have a temporary stand that will need replacing at some point in the future. We also do not have the expected amount of wheelchair/disabled viewing seats/areas for the size of our stadium. When the FML is eventually replaced, Why not with Rail seating which may well satisfy those who want to remain stood throughout without incurring the wrath of those who want to sit, And surely we could incorporate a section with good views for those who are chairbound ? Giants/RL fans would no doubt also welcome a rail seating section. My misunderstanding is that I thought with rail seats the seats are actually locked up in an unusable position, so you HAVE to stand. They are just something that meets the legal requirement for providing a "capability" of an all seater stadium.
Rail seating is locked in either of the positions, Down for seating or up for standing.
Nobody would go in a section that had Rail seating installed in the locked up position wanting to sit down as you would have to remain stood up throughout the game.
If you wanted to sit you would just go in the normal seated section.
At the very least folk would have a choice,
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 16:27:38 GMT 1
My misunderstanding is that I thought with rail seats the seats are actually locked up in an unusable position, so you HAVE to stand. They are just something that meets the legal requirement for providing a "capability" of an all seater stadium.
Rail seating is locked in either of the positions, Down for seating or up for standing.
Nobody would go in a section that had Rail seating installed in the locked up position wanting to sit down as you would have to remain stood up throughout the game.
If you wanted to sit you would just go in the normal seated section.
At the very least folk would have a choice,
OK, so I did understood. In which case, I don't understand how rail seating in FM Lower would please those who want a standing area whilst at the same time not incurring the wrath of those who want to remain seated in that area?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 16:33:03 GMT 1
Rail seating is locked in either of the positions, Down for seating or up for standing.
Nobody would go in a section that had Rail seating installed in the locked up position wanting to sit down as you would have to remain stood up throughout the game.
If you wanted to sit you would just go in the normal seated section.
At the very least folk would have a choice,
OK, so I did understood. In which case, I don't understand how rail seating in FM Lower would please those who want a standing area whilst at the same time not incurring the wrath of those who want to remain seated in that area?
Oh ffs.
I didn't give a thought about the upset installing rail seating in the FML may one day bring to the 200 or so folk who may be forced to move from THEIR seats to accommodate a proper safe area for standing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 16:34:09 GMT 1
Rail seating is locked in either of the positions, Down for seating or up for standing.
Nobody would go in a section that had Rail seating installed in the locked up position wanting to sit down as you would have to remain stood up throughout the game.
If you wanted to sit you would just go in the normal seated section.
At the very least folk would have a choice,
OK, so I did understood. In which case, I don't understand how rail seating in FM Lower would please those who want a standing area whilst at the same time not incurring the wrath of those who want to remain seated in that area? Which takes us back to the response I got. Come again ? Read what I have written again eh Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/95504/safe-standing?page=6#ixzz3oMt8jkxw
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 17:13:14 GMT 1
If the FML was ever replaced with rail seating, And it was known that the seats would be in the locked up position, Therefore everybody would have to remain stood up throughout the game, You would not choose to go in that section of the ground if you wanted to be seated, You would have a choice of 3 other areas of the ground,
Just the same as you would not go in the South stand at the moment and expect to be able to sit and not have your view spoilt by the lads that are partying.
And of course you couldn't have a section of rail seating that is both seating and standing at the same time in the same section.
But if money was no object, There is no reason that the seats in the top half of the SS could not be removed and replaced with a section of rail seating where everyone could stand throughout and not spoil the views of those sitting directly in front of them, Nor would it be a major problem having rail seating in the bottom of the South stand and having normal seats above them, Other than you would lose a couple of rows to gain the neccasary height required.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 17:33:49 GMT 1
OK, so I did understood. In which case, I don't understand how rail seating in FM Lower would please those who want a standing area whilst at the same time not incurring the wrath of those who want to remain seated in that area? Which takes us back to the response I got. Come again ? Read what I have written again eh Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/95504/safe-standing?page=6#ixzz3oMt8jkxwI've no idea what you're on about!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 17:38:32 GMT 1
I've no idea what you're on about!! I am agreeing with you. How can we have Standing and seating mixed in the same area. I'm referring to the response I got from Captain Cadman.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 17:44:10 GMT 1
I've no idea what you're on about!! I am agreeing with you. How can we have Standing and seating mixed in the same area. OK thanks, the link just sent me to a random post, I think I have different amount of posts per page as you!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2015 17:52:49 GMT 1
I am agreeing with you. How can we have Standing and seating mixed in the same area. OK thanks, the link just sent me to a random post, I think I have different amount of posts per page as you!! No problem, I've edited my previous post by the way.
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Post by detox on Oct 12, 2015 23:29:42 GMT 1
Rail seating died a death has it ? While stewards tolerate standing we're ok - but not long ago we were told the club were in breach of their safety certificate if fans stood for a prolonged period.. It's become a farce really, with the authorities stating going back to standing would be a 'disaster' but the reality is every game wou watch there are fans standing all the match (mainly away fans) ..
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Post by Boothys Knees on May 5, 2016 8:21:28 GMT 1
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on May 5, 2016 9:20:10 GMT 1
I think think we're a long way off even having trials in this country, let alone passing it.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 5, 2016 10:43:46 GMT 1
I think think we're a long way off even having trials in this country, let alone passing it. Why do we or any other club have to go to the expense of rail seating? You lot in the south stand seem to have the ability to stand all game safely. It seems completely pointless to me. All that's needed is for the club to designate an area where standing is allowed in a normal seated area.
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 5, 2016 11:26:29 GMT 1
I think think we're a long way off even having trials in this country, let alone passing it. Why do we or any other club have to go to the expense of rail seating? You lot in the south stand seem to have the ability to stand all game safely. It seems completely pointless to me. All that's needed is for the club to designate an area where standing is allowed in a normal seated area. I think you will find that 'safe standing' is already here and is dependent on how many are standing..a handfull isnt 'safe' and will incurr the wrath of the stewards, loads is clearly safe.. Waiting for the first real incident to occur that can be put down to standing 'persistently' in a seated area before doing anything seems fraught with problems.
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Post by reverendstarbuck on May 5, 2016 11:51:58 GMT 1
The potential problem with persistent standing in a seated area is that the backs of the seats in front are not high enough to stop you falling over them in any kind of crowd surge or celebration. I've done it myself. Rail seating has crush barriers built in and you can comfortably get two people deep between each one, unless one of them is Steve Evans.
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Post by ben1987 on May 5, 2016 12:14:34 GMT 1
I think think we're a long way off even having trials in this country, let alone passing it. Why do we or any other club have to go to the expense of rail seating? You lot in the south stand seem to have the ability to stand all game safely. It seems completely pointless to me. All that's needed is for the club to designate an area where standing is allowed in a normal seated area. 'You lot' or do you mean town fans like yourself? I'm for safe standing more than rail seating but the change that needs making is the law. I agree that designated areas should be implemented for away games so nobody's day is ruined but clubs won't or can't do that until the rules are changed. The FSF has written many articles on safe standing and with the law as it is it's a minefield.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 12:21:22 GMT 1
The laws were passed on the back of evidence and findings that have been proved to be a total sham and a cover up.
There is nothing inherently unsafe about standing. Poor crowd control and crumbling infrastructure ≠ unsafe standing.
The laws need updating now that the sham of the original Hillsborough findings have been brought to light. "Safety committees" up and down the country need their regulations bringing up to speed with others based on facts and common sense.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 5, 2016 12:36:58 GMT 1
Why do we or any other club have to go to the expense of rail seating? You lot in the south stand seem to have the ability to stand all game safely. It seems completely pointless to me. All that's needed is for the club to designate an area where standing is allowed in a normal seated area. 'You lot' or do you mean town fans like yourself? I'm for safe standing more than rail seating but the change that needs making is the law. I agree that designated areas should be implemented for away games so nobody's day is ruined but clubs won't or can't do that until the rules are changed. The FSF has written many articles on safe standing and with the law as it is it's a minefield. Nothing sinister in that reference. Just merely referring to the the south stand fans as opposed to us lot in the Kilner.
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Post by AndySk on May 5, 2016 13:00:14 GMT 1
Went to the Dortmund game on Saturday where 37,000 people were stood up (25,000 in one stand bouncing about, generally going ape shit). Nobody died, everybody looked to be enjoying themself.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 13:01:41 GMT 1
Why do we or any other club have to go to the expense of rail seating? You lot in the south stand seem to have the ability to stand all game safely. It seems completely pointless to me. All that's needed is for the club to designate an area where standing is allowed in a normal seated area. 'You lot' or do you mean town fans like yourself? I'm for safe standing more than rail seating but the change that needs making is the law. I agree that designated areas should be implemented for away games so nobody's day is ruined but clubs won't or can't do that until the rules are changed. The FSF has written many articles on safe standing and with the law as it is it's a minefield. What law needs changing? It's not illegal to stand temporalily, persistently OR permanently at a football match of any level in this country.
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Post by DATM Travel Agent on May 5, 2016 13:02:54 GMT 1
The laws were passed on the back of evidence and findings that have been proved to be a total sham and a cover up. There is nothing inherently unsafe about standing. Poor crowd control and crumbling infrastructure ≠ unsafe standing. Try telling that to Margaret Aspinall from the Hillsborough Support Group who thinks it's "insensitive" that Celtic's safe standing STs are being reported only a week after the inquiry finished. Once again she's talking bollocks saying that the HSG will ALWAYS oppose safe standing because such a thing doesn't exist. Right from day 1 she's been so blinkered and stubborn, blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence at all that proves her wrong.
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on May 5, 2016 13:53:47 GMT 1
'You lot' or do you mean town fans like yourself? I'm for safe standing more than rail seating but the change that needs making is the law. I agree that designated areas should be implemented for away games so nobody's day is ruined but clubs won't or can't do that until the rules are changed. The FSF has written many articles on safe standing and with the law as it is it's a minefield. What law needs changing? It's not illegal to stand temporalily, persistently OR permanently at a football match of any level in this country. One rule contradicts another. www.fsf.org.uk/campaigns/safe-standing/the-legalities-of-standing/
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Post by colnevalleyblue on May 5, 2016 14:00:47 GMT 1
The laws were passed on the back of evidence and findings that have been proved to be a total sham and a cover up. There is nothing inherently unsafe about standing. Poor crowd control and crumbling infrastructure ≠ unsafe standing. Try telling that to Margaret Aspinall from the Hillsborough Support Group who thinks it's "insensitive" that Celtic's safe standing STs are being reported only a week after the inquiry finished. Once again she's talking bollocks saying that the HSG will ALWAYS oppose safe standing because such a thing doesn't exist. Right from day 1 she's been so blinkered and stubborn, blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence at all that proves her wrong. Has she criticised the 15,000 Liverpool fans that persistently stand in the Kop each weekend too?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 14:00:51 GMT 1
The laws were passed on the back of evidence and findings that have been proved to be a total sham and a cover up. There is nothing inherently unsafe about standing. Poor crowd control and crumbling infrastructure ≠ unsafe standing. Try telling that to Margaret Aspinall from the Hillsborough Support Group who thinks it's "insensitive" that Celtic's safe standing STs are being reported only a week after the inquiry finished. Once again she's talking bollocks saying that the HSG will ALWAYS oppose safe standing because such a thing doesn't exist. Right from day 1 she's been so blinkered and stubborn, blindly refusing to acknowledge any evidence at all that proves her wrong. Wonder what her thoughts are on the LFC fans standing for the last 20+ years in the Kop. Edit: Snap
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