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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 22:10:49 GMT 1
Why don't you address the points I raised there instaed of peddling the same line. Are you a politician ?
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 3, 2015 22:13:29 GMT 1
Why don't you address the points I raised there instaed of peddling the same line. Are you a politician ? I don't have a credit card. What points are you raising apart from everyones hackles?
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Post by gledholt terrier on Aug 3, 2015 22:15:25 GMT 1
It always comes back to the same thing. Dean Hoyle being asked to spend more of his own money (and rarely politely) and being asked to abandon the plan he has implemented because it isn't quick enough for some while others simply up sticks because they aren't up for the struggle in a hugely lopsided league. god forbid he looks on here to see a daily trashing of what he is trying to achieve - he must have the patience of a saint. Eventually, the whiners will get what they want - L1 mid table (at best) oblivion. So how will we become self sufficient under his plan? Please enlighten me do we get another 11k fans or keep selling the players until his subsidy is 0 or what. I don't understand the plan. Personally, I don't think we ever will unless we either get to the PL or he throws in the towel (and we disappear back to where we have mostly been for 40 years). Lack of fans is more symbolic than anything else. Revenue streams from them are restricted by the stadium arrangement (indeed, payments to the stadium increase substantially with bigger crowds). The fly in the ointment is that DH was a massive advocate of constantly monitored FFP, but that battle has been largely lost with the increase in allowable losses and lukewarm sanctions (when are QPR going to be punished?) The other losing battle is fans' patience. While they don't make a huge difference to the expenditure disparities, it would help and maybe he would start to think that supporters were actually on his side rather than constantly carping from the sidelines. If he ever harboured the thought of doing a Gibson and going shit or bust for the PL (which, sensibly, I'm damn sure he hasn't), he's hardly likely to be encouraged by some of the supporters if this board is anything to go by.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 3, 2015 22:24:39 GMT 1
I even think he might have gone shit or bust before the present parachute system was introduced.
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 22:36:02 GMT 1
The problem is Ted the football , the players , the teams strengths and weaknesses cannot be discussed without it been linked to money and then you, smoothie and captain all come out and say the same thing don't tell deano how to spend his money. I am not i am pointing out team deficiencies. If we cant do that this board might as well pack up. Now i have asked the question how will the current plan which requires 11k more season ticket holders for us to be self sustainable work? How will we become self sufficient will we keep selling players until deano has effectively got his money back on his monthly subsidy to date or deliver success that sees a further 11k gate? RE the credit card. I have a few , i have bought all sorts of things on them from essential car repairs to holidays. Now i am not a business man but i have a wife and family to provide for, i don't go telling the wife that because i have to pay the credit cards, clearly at a level i can afford to that she cant put this and that in the trolley at Morrisons and to be grateful i took her on holiday. Clearly Deano would now rather not be spending what he has to/month but it must be at a level he is comfortable with or he wouldn't have done it. I am grateful he does but concerned that as a football club they do not seem as concerned as what they should be re addressing team/ footballing matters ie the bloody defence.
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 22:50:41 GMT 1
So how will we become self sufficient under his plan? Please enlighten me do we get another 11k fans or keep selling the players until his subsidy is 0 or what. I don't understand the plan. Personally, I don't think we ever will unless we either get to the PL or he throws in the towel (and we disappear back to where we have mostly been for 40 years). Lack of fans is more symbolic than anything else. Revenue streams from them are restricted by the stadium arrangement (indeed, payments to the stadium increase substantially with bigger crowds). The fly in the ointment is that DH was a massive advocate of constantly monitored FFP, but that battle has been largely lost with the increase in allowable losses and lukewarm sanctions (when are QPR going to be punished?) The other losing battle is fans' patience. While they don't make a huge difference to the expenditure disparities, it would help and maybe he would start to think that supporters were actually on his side rather than constantly carping from the sidelines. If he ever harboured the thought of doing a Gibson and going shit or bust for the PL (which, sensibly, I'm damn sure he hasn't), he's hardly likely to be encouraged by some of the supporters if this board is anything to go by. Let me ask the question another way , how does Deano expect the plan to work? By some chance that it all just clicks and we have a great season a sort of a Bournemouth /Burnley job. Does he really expect that fair weather fans will be excited enough to bring more fans by finishing the odd place higher. What am i missing re the plan that you get and i don't.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 3, 2015 22:52:05 GMT 1
The problem is Ted the football , the players , the teams strengths and weaknesses cannot be discussed without it been linked to money and then you, smoothie and captain all come out and say the same thing don't tell deano how to spend his money. I am not i am pointing out team deficiencies. Youve watched town for 40 years yeah ? about 3 of which we finished higher than last season. and about 37 lower. Do you factor such realities into your critique? Of course we have deficiencies. We are Huddersfield town playing in the championship, and of course its related to money because the more money you have the more you can heighten the % chance that your deficiencies will diminish. (though its not guaranteed) If we cant do that this board might as well pack up. ( and if people cant pick up on you talking nonsense we might as well all pack up)
Now i have asked the question how will the current plan which requires 11k more season ticket holders for us to be self sustainable work? How will we become self sufficient will we keep selling players until deano has effectively got his money back on his monthly subsidy to date or deliver success that sees a further 11k gate? ( We wont , god knows why but Dean seems ok to throw his money at it ) RE the credit card. I have a few , i have bought all sorts of things on them from essential car repairs to holidays. Now i am not a business man but i have a wife and family to provide for, i don't go telling the wife that because i have to pay the credit cards, clearly at a level i can afford to that she cant put this and that in the trolley at Morrisons and to be grateful i took her on holiday. (I don't know the point you are making TBH, but I prefer Lidl) Clearly Deano would now rather not be spending what he has to/month but it must be at a level he is comfortable with or he wouldn't have done it. (I don't know whether he is comfy with what he is spending ATM. I doubt it but I don't know him, I doubt he would want to put three or four times more in though)I am grateful he does but concerned that as a football club they do not seem as concerned as what they should be re addressing team/ footballing matters ie the bloody defence .(there is a fixation with defenders... if we don't score for a few weeks the fixation will switch to the attack. Do you think Powell doesn't want to improve his defensive record? Do you think he hasn't signed 2 defenders (who you know nowt about ) and a defensive midfielder who fills in at right back? Do you honestly think you know more about football than Chris Powell? Especially after forwarding the opinion that micky kennedy was no great loss and pawel abbott was an able replacement for premier league bound jon stead)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 22:55:06 GMT 1
Personally, I don't think we ever will unless we either get to the PL or he throws in the towel (and we disappear back to where we have mostly been for 40 years). Lack of fans is more symbolic than anything else. Revenue streams from them are restricted by the stadium arrangement (indeed, payments to the stadium increase substantially with bigger crowds). The fly in the ointment is that DH was a massive advocate of constantly monitored FFP, but that battle has been largely lost with the increase in allowable losses and lukewarm sanctions (when are QPR going to be punished?) The other losing battle is fans' patience. While they don't make a huge difference to the expenditure disparities, it would help and maybe he would start to think that supporters were actually on his side rather than constantly carping from the sidelines. If he ever harboured the thought of doing a Gibson and going shit or bust for the PL (which, sensibly, I'm damn sure he hasn't), he's hardly likely to be encouraged by some of the supporters if this board is anything to go by. Let me ask the question another way , how does Deano expect the plan to work? By some chance that it all just clicks and we have a great season a sort of a Bournemouth /Burnley job. Does he really expect that fair weather fans will be excited enough to bring more fans by finishing the odd place higher. What am i missing re the plan that you get and i don't. Dean has regularly said that we'd need an element of luck to get a chance of promotion. Do you honestly think that spending a shit load of brass on a centre half will have the fans flocking to the ground? I suspect Dean has been surprised and perplexed by the amount of fans that have lost interest, despite us making steady progress, but I doubt he's daft enough to think that throwing millions more per season into the mix will suddenly see us turn a profit.
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Post by rocky on Aug 3, 2015 23:13:35 GMT 1
The problem is Ted the football , the players , the teams strengths and weaknesses cannot be discussed without it been linked to money and then you, smoothie and captain all come out and say the same thing don't tell deano how to spend his money. I am not i am pointing out team deficiencies. If we cant do that this board might as well pack up. Now i have asked the question how will the current plan which requires 11k more season ticket holders for us to be self sustainable work? How will we become self sufficient will we keep selling players until deano has effectively got his money back on his monthly subsidy to date or deliver success that sees a further 11k gate? RE the credit card. I have a few , i have bought all sorts of things on them from essential car repairs to holidays. Now i am not a business man but i have a wife and family to provide for, i don't go telling the wife that because i have to pay the credit cards, clearly at a level i can afford to that she cant put this and that in the trolley at Morrisons and to be grateful i took her on holiday. Clearly Deano would now rather not be spending what he has to/month but it must be at a level he is comfortable with or he wouldn't have done it. I am grateful he does but concerned that as a football club they do not seem as concerned as what they should be re addressing team/ footballing matters ie the bloody defence. First bit in bold - Other posters link those things to money for a blindingly obvious reason mate. Second bit in bold - You've a funny way of showing it!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 23:17:14 GMT 1
The plan is to carry on: Buying prospects, selling for profit; developing players through the accademy, to ultimately improve the first team; progress year on year up the league and in quality of football; establish a quality management & stability so that, with luck we get a shot at the PL and finances that help (but certainly do not resolve) the continued challenges ahead for a small town club with a big history. It takes patience that DH hopefully has, but some fans struggle with the reality of such a farsighted progressive approach.
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 23:28:32 GMT 1
Let me ask the question another way , how does Deano expect the plan to work? By some chance that it all just clicks and we have a great season a sort of a Bournemouth /Burnley job. Does he really expect that fair weather fans will be excited enough to bring more fans by finishing the odd place higher. What am i missing re the plan that you get and i don't. Dean has regularly said that we'd need an element of luck to get a chance of promotion. Do you honestly think that spending a shit load of brass on a centre half will have the fans flocking to the ground? I suspect Dean has been surprised and perplexed by the amount of fans that have lost interest, despite us making steady progress, but I doubt he's daft enough to think that throwing millions more per season into the mix will suddenly see us turn a profit. Do you honestly think that spending a shit load of brass on a centre half will have the fans flocking to the ground? No i don't but it might have stopped a few deserters, and crucially it would be a start. At some point to be successful you have to start building on what you have. I have said before that a more successful, season is not necessarily getting in the play offs but perhaps looking like we might. It may surprise you that i am actually a very patient person and i understand fully what we are up against in this division and i didn't care one jot that Coady was sold( i envisaged Gobern holding that spot down). Perhaps a different overall strategy would have seen us keep or even gain fans but there again what do i know. Rather than the steady progress we seem to be in decline. For all my criticisms at least i got a season ticket on the strength of how we finished last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 23:30:16 GMT 1
I don't get why it's Dean Hoyle fault we have not bought a center back.
We spent money (transfer Dees) on at least a couple of players this summer. Isn't it the managers fault we bought a striker and midfielder instead of a defender?
Maybe Powell thinks Cranie all we need or has a loan CB in mind. Whatever the reason I believe he has final word on signings.
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 23:48:05 GMT 1
The plan is to carry on: Buying prospects, selling for profit; developing players through the accademy, to ultimately improve the first team; progress year on year up the league and in quality of football; establish a quality management & stability so that, with luck we get a shot at the PL and finances that help (but certainly do not resolve) the continued challenges ahead for a small town club with a big history. It takes patience that DH hopefully has, but some fans struggle with the reality of such a farsighted progressive approach. That maybe a sound plan , but it isn't really working is it? Supposing one season three academy lads new to the first team hold a place down and do well, there is then every chance one or more will be sold with profits absorbed into the losses. It seems like we are trying to square a circle. How does this approach you describe differ from the approach we had for years? The plan is ancient the only difference is Deano is subsidising our losses season on season on a plan that IMO is highly likely to fail because he believes it is the only plan other than shit or bust. .
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 3, 2015 23:51:34 GMT 1
I don't get why it's Dean Hoyle fault we have not bought a center back. We spent money (transfer Dees) on at least a couple of players this summer. Isn't it the managers fault we bought a striker and midfielder instead of a defender? Maybe Powell thinks Cranie all we need or has a loan CB in mind. Whatever the reason I believe he has final word on signings. [/quote Because when it comes to saying we should be buying this or that suddenly the post according to some becomes about the poster telling deano how to spend his brass, and given the level he is propping us up at you would think/hope that he could see what we can see re the defence and tell the former international defender to bloody well sort it. Cranie all we need? god help us.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Aug 3, 2015 23:56:48 GMT 1
Personally, I don't think we ever will unless we either get to the PL or he throws in the towel (and we disappear back to where we have mostly been for 40 years). Lack of fans is more symbolic than anything else. Revenue streams from them are restricted by the stadium arrangement (indeed, payments to the stadium increase substantially with bigger crowds). The fly in the ointment is that DH was a massive advocate of constantly monitored FFP, but that battle has been largely lost with the increase in allowable losses and lukewarm sanctions (when are QPR going to be punished?) The other losing battle is fans' patience. While they don't make a huge difference to the expenditure disparities, it would help and maybe he would start to think that supporters were actually on his side rather than constantly carping from the sidelines. If he ever harboured the thought of doing a Gibson and going shit or bust for the PL (which, sensibly, I'm damn sure he hasn't), he's hardly likely to be encouraged by some of the supporters if this board is anything to go by. Let me ask the question another way , how does Deano expect the plan to work? By some chance that it all just clicks and we have a great season a sort of a Bournemouth /Burnley job. Does he really expect that fair weather fans will be excited enough to bring more fans by finishing the odd place higher. What am i missing re the plan that you get and i don't. The simple answer, unpalatable to many, is slowly. Like all plans (of mice and men) they can and do go awry, but that doesn't mean abandoning them, it means adjusting them - for example, he tried to lead the charge for fairer financial practices but didn't win against other vested interests, so he will have to adjust to the prevailing environment. To see what the plan is, you need to look backwards. When he took over, we were a club which had suffered many affects of the 2003 administration; even to the extent that his actual takeover was protracted and acrimonious (I'm not in the Davy was evil camp, by the way, but he was an early and lingering problem). So the very foundations had to be rebuilt at the same time as trying to become more competitive on the pitch. That meant a long, distracting battle over the stadium ownership, overhauling a management and playing side of the business that wasn't fit for purpose and creating the foundations of a youth system which could start to compete against long established, successful Academies. It is difficult enough to develop players for the 1st team, never mind having to scrape the bottom end of the barrel when your facilities aren't up to standard. When he arrived, training took place about 6 miles away on someone else's property - hand in hand with the Academy problem, that had to be resolved and far from easy. With an old fashioned, hopeless manager foisted upon him by the previous regime, the changes he brought on the outlook of the club to the recruitment of players were huge and last to this day. Potential and value. None of these obstacles were easily overcome, and many were happening all at once. You can also add the huge efforts he made and continues to make to put the club firmly in to the community - this isn't frippery; for a small town club it is essential and is far too easily overlooked. The fact that his money was no guarantee of getting out of the wilderness of League 1 shouldn't be lost. It took a long, long time because, inconveniently, a few fallen giants kept joining us and taking up promotion spots. Perhaps the only slice of luck he has had was Ched Evans going to jail to allow us a streaky passage to the Championship at Wembley. Even to begin to compete in the League above took an overhaul of the playing staff - they pretty much started again and given the unusual nature of the bottom end of the division in that first year, it nearly wasn't enough. Since then, despite a couple of failing managers, we have increased our competitiveness - last season we were never in serious danger of relegation after the first few weeks, even while conceding 75 goals. The alternative to spending big on fees and wages is to invest in potential coupled with experienced heads. It's slow and not particularly exciting, but it makes absolute sense for a club of our size. Even the policy of letting players go is far better than in the past. With Pilkington, Rhodes and now Coady, talent knows that coming to Town is an attractive proposition - fulfill your potential and progression isn't obstructed (but on Town's terms). So, in about 7 years, he has swept away the crumbling artifice we had post 2003, built solid foundations and getting us towards being a Championship fixture. From this point, there is the possibility of further success, but external forces (I'd hate to see the impact of a major injury crisis, for example) can mitigate against that success. At that point, you adjust your plans - expecting a smooth ride is ridiculous. Things you put in place in 2010 or 2011 may bear fruit in 5,6 years or longer - just as things done now may also take time. But without doing them you are building on sand - and trying to buy your way up with your eyes only on the first XI is a sure way of seeing it all crash around your ears. I think DH's idea of sustainability is not putting us in a position where the club is in danger of future bankruptcy - watch Bolton's long slow decline for a good example of what can happen (Bolton fans must pray daily that their benefactor doesn't die or pull the plug and even then he is only a historic debt holder now). It really isn't as simple as buying a central defender. If people can't look back and see and understand the progress made they probably won't have much faith in the possibility of future progress. I have that faith, would much prefer the club as it is run now than at ANY time since I started watching in 1969, and believe that there are far too many fans who are an obstacle to progress with their impatience and sense of entitlement (I don't mean you, I mean generically).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 23:59:42 GMT 1
The plan is to carry on: Buying prospects, selling for profit; developing players through the accademy, to ultimately improve the first team; progress year on year up the league and in quality of football; establish a quality management & stability so that, with luck we get a shot at the PL and finances that help (but certainly do not resolve) the continued challenges ahead for a small town club with a big history. It takes patience that DH hopefully has, but some fans struggle with the reality of such a farsighted progressive approach. That maybe a sound plan , but it isn't really working is it? Supposing one season three academy lads new to the first team hold a place down and do well, there is then every chance one or more will be sold with profits absorbed into the losses. It seems like we are trying to square a circle. How does this approach you describe differ from the approach we had for years? The plan is ancient the only difference is Deano is subsidising our losses season on season on a plan that IMO is highly likely to fail because he believes it is the only plan other than shit or bust. . PATIENCE!!! I think I mentioned it.
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Post by terrierpark on Aug 4, 2015 20:21:26 GMT 1
Let me ask the question another way , how does Deano expect the plan to work? By some chance that it all just clicks and we have a great season a sort of a Bournemouth /Burnley job. Does he really expect that fair weather fans will be excited enough to bring more fans by finishing the odd place higher. What am i missing re the plan that you get and i don't. The simple answer, unpalatable to many, is slowly. Like all plans (of mice and men) they can and do go awry, but that doesn't mean abandoning them, it means adjusting them - for example, he tried to lead the charge for fairer financial practices but didn't win against other vested interests, so he will have to adjust to the prevailing environment. To see what the plan is, you need to look backwards. When he took over, we were a club which had suffered many affects of the 2003 administration; even to the extent that his actual takeover was protracted and acrimonious (I'm not in the Davy was evil camp, by the way, but he was an early and lingering problem). So the very foundations had to be rebuilt at the same time as trying to become more competitive on the pitch. That meant a long, distracting battle over the stadium ownership, overhauling a management and playing side of the business that wasn't fit for purpose and creating the foundations of a youth system which could start to compete against long established, successful Academies. It is difficult enough to develop players for the 1st team, never mind having to scrape the bottom end of the barrel when your facilities aren't up to standard. When he arrived, training took place about 6 miles away on someone else's property - hand in hand with the Academy problem, that had to be resolved and far from easy. With an old fashioned, hopeless manager foisted upon him by the previous regime, the changes he brought on the outlook of the club to the recruitment of players were huge and last to this day. Potential and value. None of these obstacles were easily overcome, and many were happening all at once. You can also add the huge efforts he made and continues to make to put the club firmly in to the community - this isn't frippery; for a small town club it is essential and is far too easily overlooked. The fact that his money was no guarantee of getting out of the wilderness of League 1 shouldn't be lost. It took a long, long time because, inconveniently, a few fallen giants kept joining us and taking up promotion spots. Perhaps the only slice of luck he has had was Ched Evans going to jail to allow us a streaky passage to the Championship at Wembley. Even to begin to compete in the League above took an overhaul of the playing staff - they pretty much started again and given the unusual nature of the bottom end of the division in that first year, it nearly wasn't enough. Since then, despite a couple of failing managers, we have increased our competitiveness - last season we were never in serious danger of relegation after the first few weeks, even while conceding 75 goals. The alternative to spending big on fees and wages is to invest in potential coupled with experienced heads. It's slow and not particularly exciting, but it makes absolute sense for a club of our size. Even the policy of letting players go is far better than in the past. With Pilkington, Rhodes and now Coady, talent knows that coming to Town is an attractive proposition - fulfill your potential and progression isn't obstructed (but on Town's terms). So, in about 7 years, he has swept away the crumbling artifice we had post 2003, built solid foundations and getting us towards being a Championship fixture. From this point, there is the possibility of further success, but external forces (I'd hate to see the impact of a major injury crisis, for example) can mitigate against that success. At that point, you adjust your plans - expecting a smooth ride is ridiculous. Things you put in place in 2010 or 2011 may bear fruit in 5,6 years or longer - just as things done now may also take time. But without doing them you are building on sand - and trying to buy your way up with your eyes only on the first XI is a sure way of seeing it all crash around your ears.I think DH's idea of sustainability is not putting us in a position where the club is in danger of future bankruptcy - watch Bolton's long slow decline for a good example of what can happen (Bolton fans must pray daily that their benefactor doesn't die or pull the plug and even then he is only a historic debt holder now). It really isn't as simple as buying a central defender. If people can't look back and see and understand the progress made they probably won't have much faith in the possibility of future progress. I have that faith, would much prefer the club as it is run now than at ANY time since I started watching in 1969, and believe that there are far too many fans who are an obstacle to progress with their impatience and sense of entitlement (I don't mean you, I mean generically). To be fair Gledholt you make some good points in that. But re buying for the first XI conversely you cannot ignore deficiencies in the first team in the here and now. Just as you explain that now and again the plan has to adjust/deviate a little it thereby does and should always address the needs of the first team. Many fans are very worried with the state of our defence, we had a clear out in wages at the end of last season and I for one expected a better centre half than what we got its that simple. That doesn't make me any less of a fan , a troublemaker or some insurgent like some on here talk to me, and I thank you for not taking that tone. Many fans sadly have fallen away simply because the excitement has gone following promotion. We got used to going for promotion the play offs etc etc and now we are seen and regarded by others as tinpot.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Aug 4, 2015 20:40:18 GMT 1
There was a time when I did not think about the cost. Just, could I fit the game in around work, and if my regular companions could make the trip. Things have certainly changed for me. I have my limit of £ 30 - with one exception - The trip to Elland Rd. And that really grates - especially given our performances on the last two visits. In the past I have gone to most of the Saturday games and the midweek ones within a couple of hours travelling. I will just attend fewer games this time which is sad because once you start missing games the habit will be broken and it will be the start of a slippery slope. But if we start playing attractive, winning football then ignore all the above and let me be queuing with all the other mugs for the overpriced tickets plus booking fees ( that, according to some on here,are there for my benefit even though I have not been charged them for the last 50 years). Funny old game I dont think anyone has tried to suggest a booking fee was for your benefit. However it is to help cover the costs the club incur for handling ticket sales. They could scrap the fees but they would just add it to the ticket price so everyone was paying regardless of how they bought their ticket. It makes no difference to me as I live 4000 miles away and probably will not get to a game this season, however it has pissed off so many people maybe they will scrap them next year and just put all tickets up a quid. Amazing how we never had any of these booking fees in the past and we still had staff to pay to sell tickets. Now we have booking fees and the ticket prices haven't come down. I assume the booking fees, if you believe the sycophants on here, now go to cover staff costs when it comes to selling the tickets.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 21:03:32 GMT 1
Jungle Deep. Have you not read the facts in this thread that booking fees have been charged by Town for a long time or are you spouting crap despite reading the facts?
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Post by Polish Hippy on Aug 4, 2015 21:12:49 GMT 1
Jungle Deep. Have you not read the facts in this thread that booking fees have been charged by Town for a long time or are you spouting crap despite reading the facts? And before booking fees were introduced? ? Is your head so far up someone's arse you can't actually get the point I'm making?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 22:14:05 GMT 1
Jungle Deep. Have you not read the facts in this thread that booking fees have been charged by Town for a long time or are you spouting crap despite reading the facts? And before booking fees were introduced? ? Is your head so far up someone's arse you can't actually get the point I'm making? Attempting to base your point on a factual inaccuracy undermines whatever point you were trying to make, so no; I can't get the point you are tryng to make.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 23:07:00 GMT 1
I dont think anyone has tried to suggest a booking fee was for your benefit. However it is to help cover the costs the club incur for handling ticket sales. They could scrap the fees but they would just add it to the ticket price so everyone was paying regardless of how they bought their ticket. It makes no difference to me as I live 4000 miles away and probably will not get to a game this season, however it has pissed off so many people maybe they will scrap them next year and just put all tickets up a quid. Amazing how we never had any of these booking fees in the past and we still had staff to pay to sell tickets. Now we have booking fees and the ticket prices haven't come down. I assume the booking fees, if you believe the sycophants on here, now go to cover staff costs when it comes to selling the tickets. We always had booking fees they were just part of the ticket costs before. Everyone was paying them regardless of how they bought their tickets. What Town will tell you is they can waive the fee but home ticket costs will rise to make up the difference. Personally I think the people buying tickets by the most cost intensive method possible should pay those costs but I really don't care that much about it to be honest. I get why people are pissed I really do, but most of the people complaining are the same ones telling Hoyle to put more money on the table. Make your minds up. By the way I would feel a lot different about this if the club wasn't losing money every year. As it is they are just trying to cover a cost of doing business. They could do it differently of course but of the choices they have I don't think it's the worst. An alternative would be for Hull to charge an extra quid or so for the tickets and give that to Town to cover costs.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Aug 5, 2015 2:33:43 GMT 1
And before booking fees were introduced? ? Is your head so far up someone's arse you can't actually get the point I'm making? Attempting to base your point on a factual inaccuracy undermines whatever point you were trying to make, so no; I can't get the point you are tryng to make. The only person seeing inaccuracies is you and given the fact that you will always swallow whatever bullshit the club puts out you will always refuse to accept anyone's point of view unless it also agrees with the bullshit spewed out by Hoyle, Jarvis or Clibbens.
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Post by Polish Hippy on Aug 5, 2015 3:11:21 GMT 1
Amazing how we never had any of these booking fees in the past and we still had staff to pay to sell tickets. Now we have booking fees and the ticket prices haven't come down. I assume the booking fees, if you believe the sycophants on here, now go to cover staff costs when it comes to selling the tickets. We always had booking fees they were just part of the ticket costs before. Everyone was paying them regardless of how they bought their tickets. What Town will tell you is they can waive the fee but home ticket costs will rise to make up the difference. Personally I think the people buying tickets by the most cost intensive method possible should pay those costs but I really don't care that much about it to be honest. I get why people are pissed I really do, but most of the people complaining are the same ones telling Hoyle to put more money on the table. Make your minds up. By the way I would feel a lot different about this if the club wasn't losing money every year. As it is they are just trying to cover a cost of doing business. They could do it differently of course but of the choices they have I don't think it's the worst. An alternative would be for Hull to charge an extra quid or so for the tickets and give that to Town to cover costs. No, the ticket price used to cover all operating costs of running a club whether it was players' wages, non playing staff wages, ground maintenance, admin costs etc. Now that we are in the modern era of accountants analysing the minutiae of every strand of running the club we've had the introduction of categorised admission prices, new home & away kit every season, booking fees for tickets, postage etc etc etc Do you honestly think these issues weren't here before Hoyle was owner and chairman? Town have always been a loss making club reliant on the goodwill of fans and selling players for good transfer fees in order to cover other costs. The only difference now is that, at least before the likes of Rubery, Davy and Hoyle took control, we had a board that actually worked with fans, stood up for them and didn't look to exploit them in every way, shape or form. As much as i would like to see Town in the premier league I don't want to see it at the expense of the club selling its soul, I'd much rather be a league 1/bottom half championship club with a decent moral business ethos than chasing what seems to be an unattainable dream with all the scummy business practices of the modern football era.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 3:54:41 GMT 1
We always had booking fees they were just part of the ticket costs before. Everyone was paying them regardless of how they bought their tickets. What Town will tell you is they can waive the fee but home ticket costs will rise to make up the difference. Personally I think the people buying tickets by the most cost intensive method possible should pay those costs but I really don't care that much about it to be honest. I get why people are pissed I really do, but most of the people complaining are the same ones telling Hoyle to put more money on the table. Make your minds up. By the way I would feel a lot different about this if the club wasn't losing money every year. As it is they are just trying to cover a cost of doing business. They could do it differently of course but of the choices they have I don't think it's the worst. An alternative would be for Hull to charge an extra quid or so for the tickets and give that to Town to cover costs. No, the ticket price used to cover all operating costs of running a club whether it was players' wages, non playing staff wages, ground maintenance, admin costs etc. Now that we are in the modern era of accountants analysing the minutiae of every strand of running the club we've had the introduction of categorised admission prices, new home & away kit every season, booking fees for tickets, postage etc etc etc Do you honestly think these issues weren't here before Hoyle was owner and chairman? Town have always been a loss making club reliant on the goodwill of fans and selling players for good transfer fees in order to cover other costs. The only difference now is that, at least before the likes of Rubery, Davy and Hoyle took control, we had a board that actually worked with fans, stood up for them and didn't look to exploit them in every way, shape or form. As much as i would like to see Town in the premier league I don't want to see it at the expense of the club selling its soul, I'd much rather be a league 1/bottom half championship club with a decent moral business ethos than chasing what seems to be an unattainable dream with all the scummy business practices of the modern football era. My problem with that opinion is that you are ignoring the financial reality. Hoyle is propping the club up by about 6 million quid a year. If he wasn't thinking of the fans the tickets would cost double what they do. I think he is actually being pretty foolish with his money because he stuck his neck out a long way to get Town promoted and the support has not increased at all. I think more people would show up if we were in League 1 winning more games. With that I have said all I can about the quid fifty charge. If you don't understand the financial reality Town are in after reading this thread you never will. If they don't make that money there then it has to come from somewhere else, most likely the playing budget.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 10:15:24 GMT 1
Attempting to base your point on a factual inaccuracy undermines whatever point you were trying to make, so no; I can't get the point you are tryng to make. The only person seeing inaccuracies is you and given the fact that you will always swallow whatever bullshit the club puts out you will always refuse to accept anyone's point of view unless it also agrees with the bullshit spewed out by Hoyle, Jarvis or Clibbens. It is my honest opinion that you should support another club because I am sure we will be more successful without someone like you as a supporter, who is prepared to spout such drivel about the clubs current management in the contradiction of documented facts. You will be excluded from my DATM threads as soon as find out how to do that, as you are the first. Well done you idiot!
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Post by gledholt terrier on Aug 5, 2015 11:26:01 GMT 1
The only person seeing inaccuracies is you and given the fact that you will always swallow whatever bullshit the club puts out you will always refuse to accept anyone's point of view unless it also agrees with the bullshit spewed out by Hoyle, Jarvis or Clibbens. It is my honest opinion that you should support another club because I am sure we will be more successful without someone like you as a supporter, who is prepared to spout such drivel about the clubs current management in the contradiction of documented facts. You will be excluded from my DATM threads as soon as find out how to do that, as you are the first. Well done you idiot! You've got to admit that the dazzling success of boards prior to Rubery set very high standards. I long for the days when the local baker, butcher and candlestick maker brought their vision and their millions to make us a model of achievement and stability.
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Post by andyeastleake on Aug 5, 2015 20:54:43 GMT 1
I'm late to this thread (don't sign on DATM that much in the summer - I get irritated by the pre-pubescents who pretend they are in the know).
With regard to the wide-scale introduction of booking fees part of me is relieved that I’m no-longer being targeted simply because I live outside of Huddersfield and travel to away games.
However, whilst I recognise the fact that the business is loss-making and either revenue has to be raised or costs cut I struggle to accept that booking fees are the most fair or appropriate method of raising revenue.
It is a method which is to a degree “petty and underhand” and it certainly seems targeted on away supporters and those who cannot attend regularly enough to justify a season ticket.
Whilst the cost of football is simply too high full-stop, relatively speaking a season-ticket represents decent value. The same simply cannot be said for away tickets and those acquired on a one off basis. With this in mind it seems wholly inappropriate to me for the business to choose to increase the cost of these tickets even further.
I can see the argument that DH’s share of the budget should be reduced, but feel it would be more appropriate for this to be shared more equally over the whole supporting base rather than such a small sector (who are already paying way over the top for attendance at those games).
The football industry seems to me to generally undervalue travelling supporters and the positive impact they have on atmosphere and the improvement in the football experience for everyone. I think you could produce a very strong argument to say the cost of travelling away is already far too high and should be reduced and I’m perplexed our club is choosing to load even more cost on this area of supporters.
On the subject of cutting costs, it quite simply baffles me that clubs outside the Premier league don’t work together to reduce their playing staff costs by salary caps, “luxury” tax or some such means – this would have a far far greater impact that any number of Clibbens’ shady practices.
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Post by andyeastleake on Aug 5, 2015 20:57:55 GMT 1
As much as i would like to see Town in the premier league I don't want to see it at the expense of the club selling its soul, I'd much rather be a league 1/bottom half championship club with a decent moral business ethos than chasing what seems to be an unattainable dream with all the scummy business practices of the modern football era. I'd struggle to find a statement with which I agreed more whole-heartedly
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Post by andyeastleake on Aug 5, 2015 21:11:46 GMT 1
I have that faith, would much prefer the club as it is run now than at ANY time since I started watching in 1969 I like the basic sentiment of your post and fully agree that DH is choosing the right approach with regard to the club's growth. However on a more general point, I'd struggle to disagree more with your comments about the way the club is run. More that at any point since 1970, I feel Huddersfield Town has ceased to be a club but is simply a business and at times is a being being run badly (e.g. the Blackburn under-pricing fiasco) or with practices that even the majority of businesses wouldn't adopt because they were unfair and customers of a "normal" business wouldn't tolerate them (booking fees per ticket is a good example). I don't view it as a coincidence that 75% of our board are not "dyed in the wool" Town supporters from an early age. Rather than being one of us as supporters, to them we appear simply customers of the business that the currently happen to work for. It's just we happen to be more loyal than customers of a "normal" business and they choose to take advantage of that fact.
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