DannyG
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,755
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Post by DannyG on Jul 25, 2015 12:13:04 GMT 1
If in doubt, provide a worse case scenario.
It's been fun. Off to Rochdale now, if they ask for an extra £1.50 at the turnstile to cover the operator's expenses I will not be impressed.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jul 25, 2015 13:20:44 GMT 1
You are ignoring what I have said before (because they wish to) e.g. perhaps you could pop in the shop and buy a shirt. Or perhaps somebody who has ordered online and paid the fee could stay online and order a shirt? While also avoiding taking up as much time from somebody who needs paying in a building which needs paying for. We're going round in circles. As already suggested, it's not so much the extra fee I object to but the way it's been introduced without any warning or explanation so I guess we should agree to differ. And I won't even call you a numpty for holding a different opinion to mine as I respect it You know when you've got somebody riled, they resort to name calling. Its a particular trait of those who defend the club to the hilt no matter whether they are right or wrong.
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C.H
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Quote Terrier
[M0:6][N4:carl hughes##]
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Post by C.H on Jul 25, 2015 13:36:46 GMT 1
I wondered why my hull tickets where a bit more!!
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jul 25, 2015 13:54:32 GMT 1
'Get informed about the real world I live in' - that's the whole point! We're asking why the club haven't informed us before now about this change in ticket policy and the reasons behind it. You know, like they said they would do before any such changes? I'm sure an explanation via the official site is on the way. I'm also sure that an explanation would not be on the way had such a fuss on here and via email not been made. You seem happy to draw your own conclusions about the extra charge, others aren't and would prefer the club to be up front about it. As for comparing the costs of your own business with those of a professional football club, I'd have to be informed about what your business is before making an informed decision about how daft a comparison that is You are selectively picking on minor points in my post instead of focussing on the important ones in order to avoid dealing with the reality of Town's commercial costs regarding ticketing and expecting a business with high ethical standards to explain, at greater expense, to numpties like you who are creating an argument for your own ends, how they justify something that is blindingly obvious! Didn't these costs exist in previous seasons or were they included in the ticket price? If they'd reduced the ticket prices and shown the booking fee separately the fair enough, but ticket prices have increased and they've added a booking charge to boot. Also if you turn up on the day and pay at the turnstile its going to cost you an extra £3 just for the privilege of not troubling the ticket office/staff in advance. Maybe they are now charging for the turnstile operatives costs separately or could it be that they haven't had a chance of ripping you off at the ticket office so they're going to do it at the gate?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 14:16:06 GMT 1
Or perhaps somebody who has ordered online and paid the fee could stay online and order a shirt? While also avoiding taking up as much time from somebody who needs paying in a building which needs paying for. We're going round in circles. As already suggested, it's not so much the extra fee I object to but the way it's been introduced without any warning or explanation so I guess we should agree to differ. And I won't even call you a numpty for holding a different opinion to mine as I respect it You know when you've got somebody riled, they resort to name calling. Its a particular trait of those who defend the club to the hilt no matter whether they are right or wrong. It isn't a matter of opinion whether town have a 5 million per year loss, nor whether they need to improve revenues from as many areas as possible. The prblem is that there are too many deluded people on this site and it is not name calling - it's accurate. As I stated earlier very optimistically 7.5% of loss might be covered from ticket sale charges. Commercial decisions; how do you improve a poor margin on away tickets, on posting out home tickets, add a fee. If you don't like it print out home tickets yourself - it's free, or buy your away tickets at the ground or at the away game. You have choices, just pick one and stop whinging.
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Post by Pozza on Jul 25, 2015 14:31:13 GMT 1
Not excusing it but if you are employing someone to sit in an office to answer phones and sell tickets I assume you not only have to cover the cost of them sticking a ticket in an envelope but also the cost of them sitting there and being paid when the phone isn't ringing? You mean like someone who is employed to work in the ticket office? It's no different from them selling one face to face than it is over the phone, yet the person who rings up has to pay £1.50 more. Not really fair that is it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 15:08:46 GMT 1
Face to face do not need an address label, envelope, stamp/franking machine or saliva!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 15:14:18 GMT 1
If that's the case then fair enough but the club should make that clear on the website when they announce that tickets go on sale, If Hull use ticketmaster and they are adding the booking fee then its them that should get the flack, not Town, but if we don't tell fans about that then what do the club expect? I still haven't had a reply from my email that I sent on Wednesday which again is p**s poor on the clubs part, even an acknowledgment would be a start.And just to clear up something for one or two people, if you print tickets at home there is no booking fee but this can only be done for HOME matches, if you want to go to watch Town away on a regular basis you will more than likely be £35 to £45 (with a cup run LOL) worse off per season in booking fee charges unless you live or work near the ground. I sent an email to the ticket office on Weds as well and got no reply so I re-sent it to Sue Beaumont (ticket office manager) who did reply and is usually very helpful. And what did she say?
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Post by Pozza on Jul 25, 2015 17:45:29 GMT 1
Face to face do not need an address label, envelope, stamp/franking machine or saliva! So that's a postage charge is it not? Don't think anyone's complaint about that? And even if the above was taking into consideration, should all that work be covered by the one TRANSACTION? Why is there a charge per ticket? You don't need an envelope, stamps, address lable and stamp per ticket do you?
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jul 25, 2015 17:49:14 GMT 1
I sent an email to the ticket office on Weds as well and got no reply so I re-sent it to Sue Beaumont (ticket office manager) who did reply and is usually very helpful. And what did she say? She said that she'd reported the problem I'd had using my take 10 card online to Zebra and that in the meantime she's reserved the seat I wanted for the first two home games, although I haven't paid yet.
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Post by rantinray on Jul 25, 2015 17:59:31 GMT 1
Bad form from Town. Penny pinching at best, ripping the fan at worst.
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Post by yoy on Jul 25, 2015 18:18:35 GMT 1
Not quite the same but I've always found the processing fees for debit card payments on season tickets slightly irritating. Not small numbers... Hey ho...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 18:38:06 GMT 1
There are some really brain dead responses in this thread. 5,000,000 loss per year is equivalent to £333 each year for every one of 15,000 town supporters irrespective whether they attend with any frequency. Please try to process the reality of that before you criticise attempts to raise more money, in a very modest way, from away attendance and those not committing to season tickets. DH has commited in the accounts to subsidising town going forwards as we improve the team and aim to get higher up the table towards challenging for a PL place. Do you wish to support that, or obstruct it; make it more difficult, or just bloody impossible? The choice is yours! The man, DH, obviously loves town, has great integrity, is putting his hard earned fortune into it for our collective benefit and all you lot seam to be able to do is engage in brain dead criticism, and that makes me truely sick and I have to say - ashamed to be associated as a town fan! I feel sorry for you all; I have tried to help you understand in all my posts above and if you still do not get it you are a lost cause.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Jul 25, 2015 20:36:14 GMT 1
There are some really brain dead responses in this thread. 5,000,000 loss per year is equivalent to £333 each year for every one of 15,000 town supporters irrespective whether they attend with any frequency. Please try to process the reality of that before you criticise attempts to raise more money, in a very modest way, from away attendance and those not committing to season tickets. DH has commited in the accounts to subsidising town going forwards as we improve the team and aim to get higher up the table towards challenging for a PL place. Do you wish to support that, or obstruct it; make it more difficult, or just bloody impossible? The choice is yours! The man, DH, obviously loves town, has great integrity, is putting his hard earned fortune into it for our collective benefit and all you lot seam to be able to do is engage in brain dead criticism, and that makes me truely sick and I have to say - ashamed to be associated as a town fan! I feel sorry for you all; I have tried to help you understand in all my posts above and if you still do not get it you are a lost cause. So shut up brain dead numpties!
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Post by UtahTerrier on Jul 27, 2015 12:10:55 GMT 1
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jul 27, 2015 15:50:47 GMT 1
Football clubs or fans can justify all day long why football clubs keep raising prices year after year, and whilst the majority keep on coming others will stop going or come less often and the gates will just keep dropping . This game is greedy beyond belief, you get no better entertainment just fancy dan footballers on higher and higher wages. To many fans except this country wide and even try to justify to those who have had enough of this sport taking the mickey out of the general public. But you earns your money spend it on what you like, people are coming less though mark my words at Huddersfield.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 15:55:28 GMT 1
Great comment at the end from Town too. So the extra £1.50 per ticket x 7 that Ben paid for Hull away tickets is to cut down on queues at the ticket office on home match days. Cracking stuff Town.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 16:12:54 GMT 1
You may not have noticed, town are trying to reduce player costs, perhaps everyone on this thread that are critical think town should sell a centre back to avoid having these ticketing fees? Der!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 16:16:28 GMT 1
Great comment at the end from Town too. So the extra £1.50 per ticket x 7 that Ben paid for Hull away tickets is to cut down on queues at the ticket office on home match days. Cracking stuff Town. I've just had a very detailed and long response from Nigel Clibbens via email. I haven't repied as of yet but will be doing shortly. I won't copy the whole email in as its longer than a shawsie post (only joking mate, its shorter than one of your posts ).
Context Booking fees for both home or away advance ticket purchases (not pay-at-the-turnstile), have been applied by the Club, depending on the different types of ticket purchase methods, for many years. They are not new and have always been publicised on the website and referred to in the Club Charter www.htafc.com/club/clubcharter/
Historically, when selling home or away advance tickets, in some cases:
* postage was payable on some types of purchase but not on others; this was confusing * when ticket office staff processed ticket purchases by email (for online) fees were payable, but when ticket office staff processed ticket purchases by phone fees were not payable (except credit/debit charge) * collecting tickets on a matchday, after buying by phone, incurred no fee (except credit/debit charge)
Processing tickets purchases over the phone with later collection is by far the most costly and time consuming method for us to administer, but no fees were levied in the past. It requires staff to take the booking, work thorough the seat selection process and then the payment process. Finally, at a later date, staff to issue the tickets at the window. Phone buyers, especially where they then collected tickets in person later (in particular match days) were being subsidised by other supporters.
We appreciate some supporters may be faced with additional costs. For example, those supporters, wishing to purchase an away ticket, in advance, who are not able or do not wish to buy in person, or who are not regular visitors to home games or the stadium, will then face a new cost (as they don't have a print at home option) from phoning and posting, with least options to avoid it.
However, selling, handling and posting tickets in such circumstances incurs costs and it is fair that supporters purchasing by this method make a contribution to the Club's costs. Again we are aware many think £1.50 per ticket is too much. We have chosen a simple charge to spread the total cost we are trying to deal with, over the total number of tickets sold by that method. Were we to move a to a per transaction method the financial impact would not be sufficient for the club and therefore the per transaction charge would need to be even higher.
Feedback The Club and the Chairman have, as always, been reflecting on the feedback from fans about the fees and Club's general approach to them. We have received four emails and some personal comments to ticket office staff. However, on social media and the main fans' forum DATM, there has been far more adverse comments, some very critical. Accusations of fans being "ripped off", £1.50 per ticket being unjustified (per transaction is more acceptable), calls for boycotts and fans saying they will no longer buy tickets. They certainly show the Board and the Chairman what fans think and how they think the Club's views them as supporters. We respect the opinions and they give us all food for thought, especially the Chairman as Owner and funder of losses and investment.
I understand the club has to cut its cloth accordingly. We are losing half a million a month on average, so we have to balance the books which I accept. But why not charge £1.50 per booking rather than per ticket? £10.50 worth of charges on 7 tickets on the same booking seems excessive to me when I've bought a season card at £350, will likely travel to 75% of away games, bought a canalside membership and spent a bob or two in there. I'm not going to boycott the club or away games because of this charge but I'm very disappointed that such a charge has been brought in whilst our support base dwindles. And it is, so things like this will not help.
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Post by Porrohman on Jul 27, 2015 16:34:13 GMT 1
CBA searching back but aren't Andy Booth Terrier and Steve Kindon Terrier statuses about the amount of posts rather than posters names ? Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jul 27, 2015 16:42:08 GMT 1
So, just pretend it's a delivery charge and it's ok then? Even though they always have charged for delivery anyway. TRUTH | INTEGRITY | PRETEND IT'S JUST FOR THE POSTAGE And, just to repeat the question; at what point are Ticketmaster involved in the transaction over the phone sale as opposed to collection from the ticket office? Maybe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation but yours, IMO, isn't it. You need put all my points together to understand my explanation, not just a late addition having made on online purchase. I really think you are all twisting your knickers over a relatively modest charge that barely covers costs, commercial costs that are not being understood, i.e. 5 mill loss (consider 50 matches per year, 5,000 tickets £1.50 each administration & post = £375,000; only 7.5% of the 5 million loss). When my bank account goes overdrawn by 1p the bank charges me £20 for a letter generated by a computer that is enveloped by machine and the only human involved is the postman. And even in that scenario, someone will likely perform a control function, they'll outsource the function, they'll have data protection requirements, functionality will have to be tested whenever something impacts it, etc, etc. It also wouldn't surprise me if a bloody regulator insists on the admin fee being quoted separately for transparency, as opposed to being built into the price. NB- I do think it's an own goal though, with lower league fans already being somewhat bitter towards football.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jul 27, 2015 16:42:54 GMT 1
Clubs lose money in football no matter what prices they charge. Is it ok as a fan to just pay whatever is charged ? For most of you yes for others no. I want to watch town but like many there is only so much I will pay to do so , the more they charge the less I will go like many other fans ( so the club might make more money from certain fans but they will lose some from the likes of me and my children )I could not care less what justification fans or the club make if the price is too much people stop coming. I've watched town for a very long time had many season tickets, going to watch town at any level interests me , but town are starting to overprice what entertainment is on offer.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jul 27, 2015 16:45:55 GMT 1
Not quite the same but I've always found the processing fees for debit card payments on season tickets slightly irritating. Not small numbers... Hey ho... Now that is annoying! That's usually the free option most companies try to direct you to.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 16:48:50 GMT 1
Great comment at the end from Town too. So the extra £1.50 per ticket x 7 that Ben paid for Hull away tickets is to cut down on queues at the ticket office on home match days. Cracking stuff Town. I've just had a very detailed and long response from Nigel Clibbens via email. I haven't repied as of yet but will be doing shortly. I won't copy the whole email in as its longer than a shawsie post (only joking mate, its shorter than one of your posts ).
Were we to move a to a per transaction method the financial impact would not be sufficient for the club and therefore the per transaction charge would need to be even higher.
I understand the club has to cut its cloth accordingly. We are losing half a million a month on average, so we have to balance the books which I accept. But why not charge £1.50 per booking rather than per ticket? £10.50 worth of charges on 7 tickets on the same booking seems excessive to me when I've bought a season card at £350, will likely travel to 75% of away games, bought a canalside membership and spent a bob or two in there. I'm not going to boycott the club or away games because of this charge but I'm very disappointed that such a charge has been brought in whilst our support base dwindles. And it is, so things like this will not help.
I think he gave you the answer above. If they moved to a per transaction fee it would be 5 quid per transaction not one pound fifty. So people buying one ticket would pay the same transaction fee as someone buying 10. Don't think that would be too popular either.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jul 27, 2015 17:05:19 GMT 1
If you go down to the ground and buy your tickets at the ticket office and pay by cash or debit card you don't get charged a per ticket transaction fee, but surely it takes just the same amount of time for them to process this as it would if you did it over the phone. So in Ben's case he could buy his 7 tickets at the ticket office with no fee but if he orders them on the phone for collection its £10.50.
Ludicrous!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 17:15:57 GMT 1
If you go down to the ground and buy your tickets at the ticket office and pay by cash or debit card you don't get charged a per ticket transaction fee, but surely it takes just the same amount of time for them to process this as it would if you did it over the phone. So in Ben's case he could buy his 7 tickets at the ticket office with no fee but if he orders them on the phone for collection its £10.50. Ludicrous! Yes you're basically paying 10.50 for someone to take your details and find an envelope with your tickets in
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 17:22:58 GMT 1
Great comment at the end from Town too. So the extra £1.50 per ticket x 7 that Ben paid for Hull away tickets is to cut down on queues at the ticket office on home match days. Cracking stuff Town. I've just had a very detailed and long response from Nigel Clibbens via email. I haven't repied as of yet but will be doing shortly. I won't copy the whole email in as its longer than a shawsie post (only joking mate, its shorter than one of your posts :P).
Context Booking fees for both home or away advance ticket purchases (not pay-at-the-turnstile), have been applied by the Club, depending on the different types of ticket purchase methods, for many years. They are not new and have always been publicised on the website and referred to in the Club Charter www.htafc.com/club/clubcharter/
Historically, when selling home or away advance tickets, in some cases:
* postage was payable on some types of purchase but not on others; this was confusing * when ticket office staff processed ticket purchases by email (for online) fees were payable, but when ticket office staff processed ticket purchases by phone fees were not payable (except credit/debit charge) * collecting tickets on a matchday, after buying by phone, incurred no fee (except credit/debit charge)
Processing tickets purchases over the phone with later collection is by far the most costly and time consuming method for us to administer, but no fees were levied in the past. It requires staff to take the booking, work thorough the seat selection process and then the payment process. Finally, at a later date, staff to issue the tickets at the window. Phone buyers, especially where they then collected tickets in person later (in particular match days) were being subsidised by other supporters.
We appreciate some supporters may be faced with additional costs. For example, those supporters, wishing to purchase an away ticket, in advance, who are not able or do not wish to buy in person, or who are not regular visitors to home games or the stadium, will then face a new cost (as they don't have a print at home option) from phoning and posting, with least options to avoid it.
However, selling, handling and posting tickets in such circumstances incurs costs and it is fair that supporters purchasing by this method make a contribution to the Club's costs. Again we are aware many think £1.50 per ticket is too much. We have chosen a simple charge to spread the total cost we are trying to deal with, over the total number of tickets sold by that method. Were we to move a to a per transaction method the financial impact would not be sufficient for the club and therefore the per transaction charge would need to be even higher.
Feedback The Club and the Chairman have, as always, been reflecting on the feedback from fans about the fees and Club's general approach to them. We have received four emails and some personal comments to ticket office staff. However, on social media and the main fans' forum DATM, there has been far more adverse comments, some very critical. Accusations of fans being "ripped off", £1.50 per ticket being unjustified (per transaction is more acceptable), calls for boycotts and fans saying they will no longer buy tickets. They certainly show the Board and the Chairman what fans think and how they think the Club's views them as supporters. We respect the opinions and they give us all food for thought, especially the Chairman as Owner and funder of losses and investment.
I understand the club has to cut its cloth accordingly. We are losing half a million a month on average, so we have to balance the books which I accept. But why not charge £1.50 per booking rather than per ticket? £10.50 worth of charges on 7 tickets on the same booking seems excessive to me when I've bought a season card at £350, will likely travel to 75% of away games, bought a canalside membership and spent a bob or two in there. I'm not going to boycott the club or away games because of this charge but I'm very disappointed that such a charge has been brought in whilst our support base dwindles. And it is, so things like this will not help.
As you say, it's a difficult one with the financial situation of the club and I think NC's response is pretty good. Maybe some sort of cap on the fees, say, £4.50, so that people aren't faced with the ludicrously high charges when ordering multiple tickets.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 17:27:59 GMT 1
In fairness to Nigel, his email was very good and every time I've emailed him or spoke to him he's always been very good. He bought an NSL off me once as well, was a fake fiver though. Bastard.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2015 17:51:09 GMT 1
Right.
Next time we have an away game where we will take 1000+ fans, I will get all your tickets, then meet you outside the ground and give you your tickets personally.
Bacs me the payment beforehand, and I'll nip down to the ticket office one lunchtime, buy 1000+ tickets, and I'll charge you JUST £1 POUND a ticket. So you save on the clubs handling and postage fee, and I cover my administration fees obviously.
Deal?
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Jul 27, 2015 18:09:25 GMT 1
Right. Next time we have an away game where we will take 1000+ fans, I will get all your tickets, then meet you outside the ground and give you your tickets personally. Bacs me the payment beforehand, and I'll nip down to the ticket office one lunchtime, buy 1000+ tickets, and I'll charge you JUST £1 POUND a ticket. So you save on the clubs handling and postage fee, and I cover my administration fees obviously. Deal? Haha! I was thinking about this myself, I will charge 50p per ticket.
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