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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 1, 2015 17:27:27 GMT 1
Forgot the name of the new transfer negotiator at Town ? He's been quiet ?? You mean Stuart Webber I think he may be a little busy at this time. With the crap that Ross Wilson took despite his transfer scouting identifying players that have made the club millions in his dealings, I'm not surprised he is keeping a low profile.
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Post by COWleySHED on Sept 1, 2015 17:27:56 GMT 1
Forgot the name of the new transfer negotiator at Town ? He's been quiet ?? stuart webber - doing a great job
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 1, 2015 17:30:47 GMT 1
Forgot the name of the new transfer negotiator at Town ? He's been quiet ?? stuart webber - doing a great job For Ross Wilson replace with Stuart Webber, and so it starts....
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 1, 2015 17:30:54 GMT 1
Forgot the name of the new transfer negotiator at Town ? He's been quiet ?? stuart webber - doing a great job Cheers, Only 30 mins to go, hope he's on the phone now to few clubs.
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Post by amoeba on Sept 1, 2015 17:34:03 GMT 1
butterfield is the only player that shoots, he had our only shot on target sat and the previous match at fulham he had 4 shots by half time One of my favourite things about Lolley is that he has a pop and possibly apart from Wells I think he's our best finisher,which says a lot for our forward threat Sent from my HTC One_M8 using proboards
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Post by Cosmo Kramer on Sept 1, 2015 17:35:02 GMT 1
Bit extreme, we got rid of players who weren't getting a look in? Such as Ward, Dixon etc. It's just smart to get these players off the wage bill surely? smart to get rid of dixon!? when robinson got injured we had the numpty carroll at lb and then smith playing at left back - no competition for places makes players complacent We loaned in James shortly after the injury? There was no point in keeping Dixon on the wage bill if we're only going to use him as back up....in situations like the Robinson one we can always go for a loan move...so yeah, smart
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Post by bluesandtwos on Sept 1, 2015 18:31:12 GMT 1
OK - reality check (not sure if this has already been done - too much to wade through). Butterfield. Last season was his best by far since leaving Barnsley. Norwich loaned him out most of his stay and Middlesborough seemed happy to ship him out. Worth £3.5 - £4m? Not really. Probably his best shot ever of getting a good deal with a decent team who could make the premiership. Last season a good player in a mediocre side. Dean obviously wanted to keep him but it looks like Butterfield wanted away as soon as he knew it was Derby. It is a mercenary trade nowadays. So we have around £8m from sales. I would like to see a couple a decent loan signings and some of the 'fringe players' given a shot. Most of all I would like to see some exciting football. I would rather use more academy players who really want to prove their worth in League 1 than watch careful football which allows us to stay in the Championship. I know it has to be run as a business, and I applaud Dean for doing it so well, but without some passion and excitement I can find better things to do with a Saturday afternoon.
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Post by John Smith on Sept 1, 2015 20:10:08 GMT 1
Well, I'm not going to lie, I'm gutted that Butterfield has gone. It's been a pleasure to watch him do his stuff for us the last 12 months. Quite easily the player I've enjoyed watching the most since our return to this level, and probably one of the best players I've seen in my 32 years as a supporter. Ambidextrous, technique you'd associate more with a Spanish maestro than a Championship midfielder; vision, the ability to drop a shoulder and create space/time for others/himself; he has thunder in that left foot, I don't think any of his 7 goals weren't special. But beyond the talent is graft too. He works back for the team, can tackle and he's never come across to me as a prima donna. It's a sad day for the club, losing all of that. But I fully understand the position we're in as a club, and I hold no grudge against Jacob for wanting to move to Derby County.
So long, JB... smash it up over there. Fingers crossed we replace you just as well as we replaced Clayts.
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Post by upthetown on Sept 1, 2015 20:13:10 GMT 1
Well, I'm not going to lie, I'm gutted that Butterfield has gone. It's been a pleasure to watch him do his stuff for us the last 12 months. Quite easily the player I've enjoyed watching the most since our return to this level, and probably one of the best players I've seen in my 32 years as a supporter. Ambidextrous, technique you'd associate more with a Spanish maestro than a Championship midfielder; vision, the ability to drop a shoulder and create space/time for others/himself; he has thunder in that left foot, I don't think any of his 7 goals weren't special. But beyond the talent is graft too. He works back for the team, can tackle and he's never come across to me as a prima donna. It's a sad day for the club, losing all of that. But I fully understand the position we're in as a club, and I hold no grudge against Jacob for wanting to move to Derby County. So long, JB... smash it up over there. Fingers crossed we replace you just as well as we replaced Clayts. Agree with all of this. Easily one of the best players in my 22 years of going. Along with Stewart, Gorre, Booth (v1), Thornley (pre injury), Monkou, Ndlovu etc
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goodbet
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Sept 1, 2015 20:40:37 GMT 1
We all hate to see good players go, but like last year we got replacements in and I like everyone else thought that we would do the same thing again.
The feeling is a lot different this time around. We knew players were leaving and had the time apparently to find replacements, but we could or would not find anyone. We are left to look for more loans but we would have to be careful how many we could pick and at times who we could sub during a game. The only other option is that we sign players without a contract, cue 33 a year old forward looking to get his last few paydays in. It could be a master stroke but unfortunately we have seen that the majority of these signings never come up to scratch.
I am concerned, I don't see an improvement in the squad and the prospects for the rest of the season are not good. It may be that the club have an ace or two up there sleeve but judging on the noises coming out of the club I am not too hopeful.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 3, 2015 23:05:42 GMT 1
Galpharm 2400,just grow up and realise this is business ,plenty of good players out there,and in my opinion £4 million approx terrific price,can't turn it down.Also have you considered that Butterfield could say no.Players aren't bothered where they play its all about the money.You just don't see anyone else's point of view just your immature and negative shite ,page after negative page. Butterfield did not press for the move. He will say so in the next week in an interview, just like Smithies. His exact words to a friend of mine in the last couple of days were "I enjoy being here, not interested overly in moving, I wont be any better off financially for the time being, this club is on its uppers and the Chairman wants out, thats why I am being moved on"... Im negative am I??? There is no point of view, we are selling to clear debt for the club to be moved on.. Its been as obvious as your attachment to the Hoyle legacy movement. He bought it, he played at it and was found out when he met the bigger boys, thats it.. Butt's Mrs on Twitter sounds as gutted as you portrayed him to be moving to Derby @hol667788: Well done to my @jlbutterfield on his move to derby... Thoroughly deserved! ?? #congratsfromdubai #hurryupandjoinus " thoroughly deserved" ... Shut up you stupid stupid idiot
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 23:22:13 GMT 1
We all hate to see good players go, but like last year we got replacements in and I like everyone else thought that we would do the same thing again. The feeling is a lot different this time around. We knew players were leaving and had the time apparently to find replacements, but we could or would not find anyone. We are left to look for more loans but we would have to be careful how many we could pick and at times who we could sub during a game. The only other option is that we sign players without a contract, cue 33 a year old forward looking to get his last few paydays in. It could be a master stroke but unfortunately we have seen that the majority of these signings never come up to scratch. I am concerned, I don't see an improvement in the squad and the prospects for the rest of the season are not good. It may be that the club have an ace or two up there sleeve but judging on the noises coming out of the club I am not too hopeful. Am I living in some sort of parallel universe our are you all just a bit thick? It's been stated time and time again that we will not be paying over the odds for players.... to spell it out in simple terms this means that it's unlikely we'll ever splash the cash within the usual transfer windows. That's because that is the time that the prices are the most inflated and deals are likely to have the most risk associated with them as a result of buyer desperation. Dean has said time and time again we are not playing that game. The last few years we have proved that a steady approach to transfers will pay dividends. We bide our time, express interest and get players in on loan before committing. I'm pretty convinced that we have once again done good business in this window, on players which will move us forward. More importantly instead of just panicking and listening to the fans, we're adhering to a longer term strategy. I realise I'm almost a loan voice on here but I think we have done amazingly transfer wise the last few years and bar getting lucky on a prolific striker (like we did with Rhodes before you all get too excited) we are not far off at all.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 3, 2015 23:24:36 GMT 1
We all hate to see good players go, but like last year we got replacements in and I like everyone else thought that we would do the same thing again. The feeling is a lot different this time around. We knew players were leaving and had the time apparently to find replacements, but we could or would not find anyone. We are left to look for more loans but we would have to be careful how many we could pick and at times who we could sub during a game. The only other option is that we sign players without a contract, cue 33 a year old forward looking to get his last few paydays in. It could be a master stroke but unfortunately we have seen that the majority of these signings never come up to scratch. I am concerned, I don't see an improvement in the squad and the prospects for the rest of the season are not good. It may be that the club have an ace or two up there sleeve but judging on the noises coming out of the club I am not too hopeful. Am I living in some sort of parallel universe our are you all just a bit thick? It's been stated time and time again that we will not be paying over the odds for players.... to spell it out in simple terms this means that it's unlikely we'll ever splash the cash within the usual windows. That's because that is the time that the prices are the most inflated and likely to have the most risk associated as a result of club desperation. Dean has said time and time again we are not playing that game. The last few years we have proved that s steady approach to transfers will pay dividends. We bide our time, express interest and get players in on loan before committing. I realise I'm almost a loan voice on her but think we have done amazingly transfer wise recently and bar getting lucky on a prolific striker (like we did with Rhodes before you all get too excited) we are not far off at all. Problem is Rich, we are sat in the bottom three and not looking like we will score enough goals at present to stay up
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 23:27:48 GMT 1
Am I living in some sort of parallel universe our are you all just a bit thick? It's been stated time and time again that we will not be paying over the odds for players.... to spell it out in simple terms this means that it's unlikely we'll ever splash the cash within the usual windows. That's because that is the time that the prices are the most inflated and likely to have the most risk associated as a result of club desperation. Dean has said time and time again we are not playing that game. The last few years we have proved that s steady approach to transfers will pay dividends. We bide our time, express interest and get players in on loan before committing. I realise I'm almost a loan voice on her but think we have done amazingly transfer wise recently and bar getting lucky on a prolific striker (like we did with Rhodes before you all get too excited) we are not far off at all. Problem is Rich, we are sat in the bottom three and not looking like we will score enough goals at present to stay up We've played 4 games, and we've not conceded heavily in any of them. 3 of the teams we've played are top 5. Come on, let's have some perspective.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 3, 2015 23:35:45 GMT 1
Problem is Rich, we are sat in the bottom three and not looking like we will score enough goals at present to stay up We've played 4 games, and we've not conceded heavily in any of them. 3 of the teams we've played are top 5. Come on, let's have some perspective. Mate I'm a positive town fan and an honorary member of the happy clapper club.. But how many games have we won in the last 25 ? You don't get three point hauls for having " good windows" . And I can't see how losing your best player and being left in a situation where you are struggling for goal threat constitutes a " good window" ... I'm very hopeful The club has something up its sleeve for the loan window but if not it's going to be a long road till January in my opinion
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 23:46:21 GMT 1
We've played 4 games, and we've not conceded heavily in any of them. 3 of the teams we've played are top 5. Come on, let's have some perspective. Mate I'm a positive town fan and an honorary member of the happy clapper club.. But how many games have we won in the last 25 ? You don't get three point hauls for having " good windows" . And I can't see how losing your best player and being left in a situation where you are struggling for goal threat constitutes a " good window" ... I'm very hopeful The club has something up its sleeve for the loan window but if not it's going to be a long road till January in my opinion It's your opinion, but I think we've looked good in both home matches, and haven't got a clue why everyone has thrown their toys out of the pram like they have. We've been short of a goal threat admittedly but we have been competing and containing teams in the main part. We've just swapped our most creative player for three more very promising creative players is how I see it. There's been a collective hysteria on here as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking forward to a few eating their words as the season develops.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 3, 2015 23:55:20 GMT 1
Mate I'm a positive town fan and an honorary member of the happy clapper club.. But how many games have we won in the last 25 ? You don't get three point hauls for having " good windows" . And I can't see how losing your best player and being left in a situation where you are struggling for goal threat constitutes a " good window" ... I'm very hopeful The club has something up its sleeve for the loan window but if not it's going to be a long road till January in my opinion It's your opinion, but I think we've looked good in both home matches, and haven't got a clue why everyone has thrown their toys out of the pram like they have. We've been short of a goal threat admittedly but we have been competing and containing teams in the main part. We've just swapped our most creative player for three more very promising creative players is how I see it. There's been a collective hysteria on here as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking forward to a few eating their words as the season develops. If you read what I write you will see that hysterical teddy throwing is a pet hate of mine... BUT to counter that with delusion is misplaced I m o ... Unfortunately the laws of football do not allow you to play three players in one position.. Butterfield was by far the best player we had and he will be sorely missed,,. Are any of the three a patch on him ? Probably not. Are they good additions to the squad ? Maybe. Did we need three left sided midfielders/wingers when we are desperate for a central striker ? NO . Just because the hysteria is nonsense doesn't mean it should be responded to by counter nonsense. Do you really see a team who is going to have people eating their words ? Yes we are competitive but where are the goals? You need to score them to win games .. Yes we've been unlucky but poor teams become unlucky teams and visa versa.. I'm not writing our season off.. Not at all.. It's fine margins and a couple of wins could have us smiling again.. But to dismiss all doubt and doubters is folly ..
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Post by teddytheterrier on Sept 4, 2015 6:52:02 GMT 1
Butterfield did not press for the move. He will say so in the next week in an interview, just like Smithies. His exact words to a friend of mine in the last couple of days were "I enjoy being here, not interested overly in moving, I wont be any better off financially for the time being, this club is on its uppers and the Chairman wants out, thats why I am being moved on"... Im negative am I??? There is no point of view, we are selling to clear debt for the club to be moved on.. Its been as obvious as your attachment to the Hoyle legacy movement. He bought it, he played at it and was found out when he met the bigger boys, thats it.. Butt's Mrs on Twitter sounds as gutted as you portrayed him to be moving to Derby @hol667788: Well done to my @jlbutterfield on his move to derby... Thoroughly deserved! ?? #congratsfromdubai #hurryupandjoinus " thoroughly deserved" ... Shut up you stupid stupid idiot His mum was quite complimentary to HTAFC on twitter though, his bird seems a bit dim.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 4, 2015 7:12:33 GMT 1
Come on Mr Webber, use the money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 7:46:20 GMT 1
It's simple.
The money offered for Butterfield was way too much to turn down.
What we do now with that money is critical to whether we progress or not.
In my opinion, given the obvious impending departure of Butterfield, added to the sales of Smithies, and Coady, plus the wage reduction savings we've made, we've not done enough this window.
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 4, 2015 7:53:44 GMT 1
It's your opinion, but I think we've looked good in both home matches, and haven't got a clue why everyone has thrown their toys out of the pram like they have. We've been short of a goal threat admittedly but we have been competing and containing teams in the main part. We've just swapped our most creative player for three more very promising creative players is how I see it. There's been a collective hysteria on here as far as I'm concerned. I'm looking forward to a few eating their words as the season develops. If you read what I write you will see that hysterical teddy throwing is a pet hate of mine... BUT to counter that with delusion is misplaced I m o ... Unfortunately the laws of football do not allow you to play three players in one position.. Butterfield was by far the best player we had and he will be sorely missed,,. Are any of the three a patch on him ? Probably not. Are they good additions to the squad ? Maybe. Did we need three left sided midfielders/wingers when we are desperate for a central striker ? NO . Just because the hysteria is nonsense doesn't mean it should be responded to by counter nonsense. Do you really see a team who is going to have people eating their words ? Yes we are competitive but where are the goals? You need to score them to win games .. Yes we've been unlucky but poor teams become unlucky teams and visa versa.. I'm not writing our season off.. Not at all.. It's fine margins and a couple of wins could have us smiling again.. But to dismiss all doubt and doubters is folly .. The three we've brought in from my small amount of research are not all the same. Carayol is a left winger, a position we've needed to address. Huws is a box to box midfielder and Paterson plays further forward as a creative/attacking midfielder. We bought a defender in the summer who looks good (Cranie). We are short of a striker but im sure we'll bring someone in on loan (or Vaughan might start playing). Im not dismissing the doubts completely I'm trying to balance the argument against an overwhelming tide of negativity.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 4, 2015 8:12:49 GMT 1
If you read what I write you will see that hysterical teddy throwing is a pet hate of mine... BUT to counter that with delusion is misplaced I m o ... Unfortunately the laws of football do not allow you to play three players in one position.. Butterfield was by far the best player we had and he will be sorely missed,,. Are any of the three a patch on him ? Probably not. Are they good additions to the squad ? Maybe. Did we need three left sided midfielders/wingers when we are desperate for a central striker ? NO . Just because the hysteria is nonsense doesn't mean it should be responded to by counter nonsense. Do you really see a team who is going to have people eating their words ? Yes we are competitive but where are the goals? You need to score them to win games .. Yes we've been unlucky but poor teams become unlucky teams and visa versa.. I'm not writing our season off.. Not at all.. It's fine margins and a couple of wins could have us smiling again.. But to dismiss all doubt and doubters is folly .. The three we've brought in from my small amount of research are not all the same. Carayol is a left winger, a position we've needed to address. Huws is a box to box midfielder and Paterson plays further forward as a creative/attacking midfielder. We bought a defender in the summer who looks good (Cranie). We are short of a striker but im sure we'll bring someone in on loan (or Vaughan might start playing). Im not dismissing the doubts completely I'm trying to balance the argument against an overwhelming tide of negativity. Just because there is an overwhelming tide of s**t from town fans doesn't mean people need to balance it by being " upbeat" ... I'm not saying they are all " the same" although I question whether he will play them all in the same team at the same time... But surely you can see that key positions , which even the most " upbeat" town fans could see needed plugging, have not been plugged... ? Whether you like it or I like it the wins/games is poor atm and if it carries on we get relegated... I don't think we had much choice re butts and hopefully all the good money we got for him will be reinvested, though the way it's going atm you can't be certain... By all means Rich we need to be positive and upbeat... But you see that spade over there ? It's a spade .
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 4, 2015 8:21:15 GMT 1
Butterfield did not press for the move. He will say so in the next week in an interview, just like Smithies. His exact words to a friend of mine in the last couple of days were "I enjoy being here, not interested overly in moving, I wont be any better off financially for the time being, this club is on its uppers and the Chairman wants out, thats why I am being moved on"... Im negative am I??? There is no point of view, we are selling to clear debt for the club to be moved on.. Its been as obvious as your attachment to the Hoyle legacy movement. He bought it, he played at it and was found out when he met the bigger boys, thats it.. Butt's Mrs on Twitter sounds as gutted as you portrayed him to be moving to Derby @hol667788: Well done to my @jlbutterfield on his move to derby... Thoroughly deserved! ?? #congratsfromdubai #hurryupandjoinus " thoroughly deserved" ... Shut up you stupid stupid idiot his brother/his mum?? also twitter.. as does he.. my info about his views were not from twitter but someone who saw him daily and spoke to him daily.. person is a big admirer of Dean Hoyle, no axe to grind.. a little bemused and worried but no side to them.. twatter and faecesbook, made up 'windswept and interesting people talking about being windswept and interesting' whilst ironing or playing with themselves..
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 4, 2015 8:50:19 GMT 1
The three we've brought in from my small amount of research are not all the same. Carayol is a left winger, a position we've needed to address. Huws is a box to box midfielder and Paterson plays further forward as a creative/attacking midfielder. We bought a defender in the summer who looks good (Cranie). We are short of a striker but im sure we'll bring someone in on loan (or Vaughan might start playing). Im not dismissing the doubts completely I'm trying to balance the argument against an overwhelming tide of negativity. Just because there is an overwhelming tide of s**t from town fans doesn't mean people need to balance it by being " upbeat" ... I'm not saying they are all " the same" although I question whether he will play them all in the same team at the same time... But surely you can see that key positions , which even the most " upbeat" town fans could see needed plugging, have not been plugged... ? Whether you like it or I like it the wins/games is poor atm and if it carries on we get relegated... I don't think we had much choice re butts and hopefully all the good money we got for him will be reinvested, though the way it's going atm you can't be certain... By all means Rich we need to be positive and upbeat... But you see that spade over there ? It's a spade . Its a discussion Ted, this is how they work, you put your opinion across and I put mine. There's no universal truth.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 4, 2015 8:52:40 GMT 1
Just because there is an overwhelming tide of s**t from town fans doesn't mean people need to balance it by being " upbeat" ... I'm not saying they are all " the same" although I question whether he will play them all in the same team at the same time... But surely you can see that key positions , which even the most " upbeat" town fans could see needed plugging, have not been plugged... ? Whether you like it or I like it the wins/games is poor atm and if it carries on we get relegated... I don't think we had much choice re butts and hopefully all the good money we got for him will be reinvested, though the way it's going atm you can't be certain... By all means Rich we need to be positive and upbeat... But you see that spade over there ? It's a spade . Its a discussion Ted, this is how they work, you put your opinion across and I put mine. There's no universal truth. I agree .. I just wonder if you are being realistic and whether your responses are a reaction to the nonsense of others rather than a balanced view ?
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Post by richhtfc on Sept 4, 2015 8:58:11 GMT 1
Its a discussion Ted, this is how they work, you put your opinion across and I put mine. There's no universal truth. I agree .. I just wonder if you are being realistic and whether your responses are a reaction to the nonsense of others rather than a balanced view ? On the basis of what I've seen/read I think everyone is overreacting. Its far too early for mass panic IMO and I'm excited to see what the new players will offer.
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Post by townatheart on Sept 4, 2015 9:16:40 GMT 1
Its a discussion Ted, this is how they work, you put your opinion across and I put mine. There's no universal truth. I agree .. I just wonder if you are being realistic and whether your responses are a reaction to the nonsense of others rather than a balanced view ? sorry for butting in here ted, but to me rich is obviously doing exactly that -- trying to put across a balanced view !! of course it is a reaction to the leeming like trend for utter unrealistic overhyped s***e, and to repeat of course it is a reaction, but one that is attempting to put things into a more sensible perspective. in other words, he has made it clear that it is a spade, he sees it is a spade, but in a more balanced sense, he can see that it is not in fact a totally useless or clueless spade, and that it is a spade that does have some potential for positive use. so not really clear as to what your objection is to his post ??
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 4, 2015 11:35:11 GMT 1
I agree .. I just wonder if you are being realistic and whether your responses are a reaction to the nonsense of others rather than a balanced view ? sorry for butting in here ted, but to me rich is obviously doing exactly that -- trying to put across a balanced view !! of course it is a reaction to the leeming like trend for utter unrealistic overhyped s***e, and to repeat of course it is a reaction, but one that is attempting to put things into a more sensible perspective. in other words, he has made it clear that it is a spade, he sees it is a spade, but in a more balanced sense, he can see that it is not in fact a totally useless or clueless spade, and that it is a spade that does have some potential for positive use. so not really clear as to what your objection is to his post ?? Look its his opinion .. I don't have objection per se.. I'm.just voicing my opinion that although I agree that there has been lots of reactionary nonsense spouted in recent weeks, is that reason to go the other way and claim all in the garden is rosey.. it's all about balance surely ? Ultimately , even though it's early in the season we are in a bit of a pickle .. not an insurmountable pickle.. but a pickle nonetheless ?
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Sept 4, 2015 12:22:43 GMT 1
sorry for butting in here ted, but to me rich is obviously doing exactly that -- trying to put across a balanced view !! of course it is a reaction to the leeming like trend for utter unrealistic overhyped s***e, and to repeat of course it is a reaction, but one that is attempting to put things into a more sensible perspective. in other words, he has made it clear that it is a spade, he sees it is a spade, but in a more balanced sense, he can see that it is not in fact a totally useless or clueless spade, and that it is a spade that does have some potential for positive use. so not really clear as to what your objection is to his post ?? Look its his opinion .. I don't have objection per se.. I'm.just voicing my opinion that although I agree that there has been lots of reactionary nonsense spouted in recent weeks, is that reason to go the other way and claim all in the garden is rosey.. it's all about balance surely ? Ultimately , even though it's early in the season we are in a bit of a pickle .. not an insurmountable pickle.. but a pickle nonetheless ? ....bit more of wally than a silverskin though.
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Post by Tanzanian Terrier on Sept 19, 2015 20:23:53 GMT 1
Jacob Who?
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