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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Nov 21, 2016 11:52:05 GMT 1
Don't personally think Hudson was to blame at either Fulham or Preston. Of course he was to blame ffs but not scapegoated...he is simply not the answer but changing the keeper is a start |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Nov 21, 2016 12:50:39 GMT 1
I don't think Hudson is totally responsible but I do think he's very slow and ponderous.
I really like Heffsters passion and how he plays and his youthfulness, Heff is better choice IMO.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Nov 21, 2016 13:58:37 GMT 1
Don't personally think Hudson was to blame at either Fulham or Preston. Of course he was to blame ffs but not scapegoated...he is simply not the answer but changing the keeper is a start if we drop off and sit in our own box as much as we have been doing, it matters not who starts.. nothing wrong with early season centre halves playing further up the pitch as much as they could.. its a percentage game at times.. the oddest thing has been the change in tactics the dropping off as a team from back to front?? some will say teams are playing differently against us?? this does not explain the lack of pressure on the ball when the opposition have it or the dropping back and the gap between front and back? |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 29, 2016 11:04:46 GMT 1
How long is Huddy injured for? Boy do we need him back.
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Post by morleyterrier on Dec 1, 2016 16:22:27 GMT 1
How long is Huddy injured for? Boy do we need him back. Was just about to post the same thing!. |
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Post by jqhtfc on Dec 1, 2016 16:35:48 GMT 1
January
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Dec 1, 2016 17:08:01 GMT 1
How long is Huddy injured for? Boy do we need him back. Eh? He would've been torn to shreds by Wildschut's pace on Monday. |
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Post by Cosmo Kramer on Dec 1, 2016 17:40:31 GMT 1
With regards to Stankovic, he is no quicker than Hudson, but his upside is that he is very comfortable on the ball and confident in playing it out.
Between Stankovic and Hudson, who you play should depend on whether you want a ball playing defender, or an experienced centre half. Both will be suited to different games over the course of the season.
I would play Hefele in games where we need a more athletic centre back, he is certainly more mobile than both Stankovic and Hudson.
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E4b
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,415
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Post by E4b on Dec 1, 2016 17:43:34 GMT 1
What I don't understand is that Wagner really wanted this guy. He was top of Wagner's shopping list!
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Post by wtd on Dec 1, 2016 17:46:05 GMT 1
What I don't understand is that Wagner really wanted this guy. He was top of Wagner's shopping list! It is difficult to understand after Tuesday's performance, I grant you. Maybe we just need to afford him more time... he's had very few minutes on the pitch, to be fair. |
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Post by royrace on Dec 1, 2016 18:16:55 GMT 1
How long is Huddy injured for? Boy do we need him back. Eh? He would've been torn to shreds by Wildschut's pace on Monday. A few points on that subject: 1. Hudson would never have found himself in the exposed position Stank did on Monday, nor would he have allowed that situation to develop. 2. If he had have he would have done the sensible, professional thing and pulled him down not tried to have a race with him. 3. The defence would never have been left so exposed as it was for the second goal had Hudson been on the pitch, not a chance. 4. IMO with Hudson on the pitch we would have won the match. Centre backs don't necessarily need pace, that's why most of them are slow, even the world class ones, I didn't see any of Wigans centre backs challenging VLP, Scannell, Wells, Kachunga to a race. The point is quality centre backs operating as part of an organised defence would never find themselves in that exposed position and on the rare occasion they might they commit the foul and take the yellow as we have seen Hudson do countless times. To be fair though both breakaways were recoverable had Ward or Hogg done better than they did. We got unlucky on Monday night in so many different ways, Scannell immediately crocked, Hudson quickly off the pitch leaving an incapable/unfit/inexperienced CB pairing and then we have 2 stonewall pens turned down. Time we got some good luck again. |
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Post by Terriersmad on Dec 1, 2016 18:36:37 GMT 1
What I don't understand is that Wagner really wanted this guy. He was top of Wagner's shopping list! It is difficult to understand after Tuesday's performance, I grant you. Maybe we just need to afford him more time... he's had very few minutes on the pitch, to be fair. Because he's a kid - he's 20, with a lot to learn. Needs to learn the game in this country, but he's got some good attributes such as his composure. He's naive, but he'll learn. He had a stinker on Monday, but I don't think anyone at the game could have gone away thinking he was just plain rubbish, because he showed some promise despite his mistakes. |
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Post by Sarcastic Terrier on Dec 1, 2016 18:45:01 GMT 1
With Stankovic I think it just shows the step up required between under 23 and mens football. Most of us were suitably unimpressed after his performance on Monday but if he's doing it in training we have to give his his chance.
It also does bring into question the ability of the likes of Hefele and more so Paurevic. would have thought that Wagner would have had good cause to give Hefele a run in the side unless his efforts in training and his ability do not come close to Hudson. With Paurevic, a player who can operate in central midfield or central defence, he must be another player for the future as at 6'5" he hasn't had a look in.
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E4b
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,415
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Post by E4b on Dec 1, 2016 19:42:01 GMT 1
What I don't understand is that Wagner really wanted this guy. He was top of Wagner's shopping list! It is difficult to understand after Tuesday's performance, I grant you. Maybe we just need to afford him more time... he's had very few minutes on the pitch, to be fair. I hope you're right. I am really disappointed with Schindler's and Loewe's recent performances too. |
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Dec 1, 2016 19:56:33 GMT 1
Ive seen Hudson get turned many times and be involved in heavy defeats ,he is simply too slow and its up to Hef and Schindler to man up now we need physicality and focus..... do this and they are our best pairing for sure
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Post by wtd on Dec 1, 2016 20:26:04 GMT 1
It is difficult to understand after Tuesday's performance, I grant you. Maybe we just need to afford him more time... he's had very few minutes on the pitch, to be fair. I hope you're right. I am really disappointed with Schindler's and Loewe's recent performances too. I think everyone's lost a bit of confidence. These were players at the heart of our early season success when we were conceding very few goals. We need a win (or two) pretty quickly just to settle them down again and regain some belief. Couple of strong additions in January would give the whole team a lift. A dominant centre-back and a striker with presence would be the obvious choices. And no, before you say it... I don't have a clue who might be in our sights.   |
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Dec 1, 2016 20:53:30 GMT 1
Eh? He would've been torn to shreds by Wildschut's pace on Monday. A few points on that subject: 1. Hudson would never have found himself in the exposed position Stank did on Monday, nor would he have allowed that situation to develop. 2. If he had have he would have done the sensible, professional thing and pulled him down not tried to have a race with him. 3. The defence would never have been left so exposed as it was for the second goal had Hudson been on the pitch, not a chance. 4. IMO with Hudson on the pitch we would have won the match. Centre backs don't necessarily need pace, that's why most of them are slow, even the world class ones, I didn't see any of Wigans centre backs challenging VLP, Scannell, Wells, Kachunga to a race. The point is quality centre backs operating as part of an organised defence would never find themselves in that exposed position and on the rare occasion they might they commit the foul and take the yellow as we have seen Hudson do countless times. To be fair though both breakaways were recoverable had Ward or Hogg done better than they did. We got unlucky on Monday night in so many different ways, Scannell immediately crocked, Hudson quickly off the pitch leaving an incapable/unfit/inexperienced CB pairing and then we have 2 stonewall pens turned down. Time we got some good luck again. Just how I saw it - well said. You can see from the Monday night performance why DW has retained and included Huddy in the line up - for his experience. Having said that very surprised that DW couldn't get the message across to Schindler and Stankovic about how to set up and defend for breakaways. |
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Dec 1, 2016 21:00:36 GMT 1
I hope you're right. I am really disappointed with Schindler's and Loewe's recent performances too. I think everyone's lost a bit of confidence. These were players at the heart of our early season success when we were conceding very few goals. We need a win (or two) pretty quickly just to settle them down again and regain some belief. Couple of strong additions in January would give the whole team a lift. A dominant centre-back and a striker with presence would be the obvious choices. And no, before you say it... I don't have a clue who might be in our sights. Can't see Dean forking out for another centre half, but a biggish centre forward is a necessity. DW says DH is always knocking on his door to discuss players/targets! Think you are right about a couple of wins getting us going. Difficult outside of football / sport to understand how important squad spirit and confidence can be. |
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Post by NumeroUno on Dec 1, 2016 21:14:58 GMT 1
A few points on that subject: 1. Hudson would never have found himself in the exposed position Stank did on Monday, nor would he have allowed that situation to develop. 2. If he had have he would have done the sensible, professional thing and pulled him down not tried to have a race with him. 3. The defence would never have been left so exposed as it was for the second goal had Hudson been on the pitch, not a chance. 4. IMO with Hudson on the pitch we would have won the match. Centre backs don't necessarily need pace, that's why most of them are slow, even the world class ones, I didn't see any of Wigans centre backs challenging VLP, Scannell, Wells, Kachunga to a race. The point is quality centre backs operating as part of an organised defence would never find themselves in that exposed position and on the rare occasion they might they commit the foul and take the yellow as we have seen Hudson do countless times. To be fair though both breakaways were recoverable had Ward or Hogg done better than they did. We got unlucky on Monday night in so many different ways, Scannell immediately crocked, Hudson quickly off the pitch leaving an incapable/unfit/inexperienced CB pairing and then we have 2 stonewall pens turned down. Time we got some good luck again. Just how I saw it - well said. You can see from the Monday night performance why DW has retained and included Huddy in the line up - for his experience. Having said that very surprised that DW couldn't get the message across to Schindler and Stankovic about how to set up and defend for breakaways. Think a lot forget that Hudson actually started the game but had to go off straight away, wasting a sub and affecting Wagner's match plan. We were very unlucky in that game with early injuries, penalty calls, the general bounce of the ball, etc. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 1, 2016 23:04:20 GMT 1
Wagner said Hudson will be out 2 or 3 weeks. It was Scannell he said that we won't see until January. |
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Dec 1, 2016 23:20:48 GMT 1
Just how I saw it - well said. You can see from the Monday night performance why DW has retained and included Huddy in the line up - for his experience. Having said that very surprised that DW couldn't get the message across to Schindler and Stankovic about how to set up and defend for breakaways. Think a lot forget that Hudson actually started the game but had to go off straight away, wasting a sub and affecting Wagner's match plan. We were very unlucky in that game with early injuries, penalty calls, the general bounce of the ball, etc. We can blame Huddy then for not passing the instructions on to Schindler 😉 |
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Dec 1, 2016 23:24:01 GMT 1
Eh? He would've been torn to shreds by Wildschut's pace on Monday. A few points on that subject: 1. Hudson would never have found himself in the exposed position Stank did on Monday, nor would he have allowed that situation to develop. 2. If he had have he would have done the sensible, professional thing and pulled him down not tried to have a race with him. 3. The defence would never have been left so exposed as it was for the second goal had Hudson been on the pitch, not a chance. 4. IMO with Hudson on the pitch we would have won the match. Centre backs don't necessarily need pace, that's why most of them are slow, even the world class ones, I didn't see any of Wigans centre backs challenging VLP, Scannell, Wells, Kachunga to a race. The point is quality centre backs operating as part of an organised defence would never find themselves in that exposed position and on the rare occasion they might they commit the foul and take the yellow as we have seen Hudson do countless times. To be fair though both breakaways were recoverable had Ward or Hogg done better than they did. We got unlucky on Monday night in so many different ways, Scannell immediately crocked, Hudson quickly off the pitch leaving an incapable/unfit/inexperienced CB pairing and then we have 2 stonewall pens turned down. Time we got some good luck again. 1. You think it was the defenders decision to play so high? Clearly Wagner's idea as he didn't expect that starting line up from Wigan. Surelu it wouldn't have required Hudson being on the pitch to see we were getting rinsed. 2. And he'd have been sent off before half time 3. See point 1 4. Rubbish |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 1, 2016 23:50:09 GMT 1
A few points on that subject: 1. Hudson would never have found himself in the exposed position Stank did on Monday, nor would he have allowed that situation to develop. 2. If he had have he would have done the sensible, professional thing and pulled him down not tried to have a race with him. 3. The defence would never have been left so exposed as it was for the second goal had Hudson been on the pitch, not a chance. 4. IMO with Hudson on the pitch we would have won the match. Centre backs don't necessarily need pace, that's why most of them are slow, even the world class ones, I didn't see any of Wigans centre backs challenging VLP, Scannell, Wells, Kachunga to a race. The point is quality centre backs operating as part of an organised defence would never find themselves in that exposed position and on the rare occasion they might they commit the foul and take the yellow as we have seen Hudson do countless times. To be fair though both breakaways were recoverable had Ward or Hogg done better than they did. We got unlucky on Monday night in so many different ways, Scannell immediately crocked, Hudson quickly off the pitch leaving an incapable/unfit/inexperienced CB pairing and then we have 2 stonewall pens turned down. Time we got some good luck again. 1. You think it was the defenders decision to play so high? Clearly Wagner's idea as he didn't expect that starting line up from Wigan. Surelu it wouldn't have required Hudson being on the pitch to see we were getting rinsed. 2. And he'd have been sent off before half time 3. See point 1 4. Rubbish You know that is pure specualtion on your part VP. I'm with roy on this one again pure speculation on our part but the fact that Hudson was selected above Schlinder and Hefele, showed that he felt Hudson and Stankovic as a pairing were his best chance of nullifying the Wigan attack. And his lack of pace means through his experience he drops deeper to cope with quicker attackers. I think we made Wildschut look far pacier than he actually was and who is to say that Hudson's experience and positioning could have not have nullified his threat! Hudson has never seen red in a Town shirt (another example of his experience), so I highly doubt he'd have been sent off at all - never mind in the 39 minutes left in the first half after he was subbed. All that said though, when in form and confident Schindler and Hefele would be my first choice pairing but Schindler needs to find that form and confidence pretty quick (2-3 weeks) if he doesn't want to lose his place to Hudson when he returns to full fitness. |
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Post by dumbo on Dec 1, 2016 23:53:01 GMT 1
Just how I saw it - well said. You can see from the Monday night performance why DW has retained and included Huddy in the line up - for his experience. Having said that very surprised that DW couldn't get the message across to Schindler and Stankovic about how to set up and defend for breakaways. Think a lot forget that Hudson actually started the game but had to go off straight away, wasting a sub and affecting Wagner's match plan. We were very unlucky in that game with early injuries, penalty calls, the general bounce of the ball, etc. You can say that both ways though. Wigan had the captain centre half suspended, the goalkeeper out injured for the season and replaced with a 41 year old and the top scorer and a few other out with flu. |
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Dec 1, 2016 23:54:55 GMT 1
1. You think it was the defenders decision to play so high? Clearly Wagner's idea as he didn't expect that starting line up from Wigan. Surelu it wouldn't have required Hudson being on the pitch to see we were getting rinsed. 2. And he'd have been sent off before half time 3. See point 1 4. Rubbish You know that is pure specualtion on your part VP. I'm with roy on this one again pure speculation on our part but the fact that Hudson was selected above Schlinder and Hefele, showed that he felt Hudson and Stankovic as a pairing were his best chance of nullifying the Wigan attack. And his lack of pace means through his experience he drops deeper to cope with quicker attackers. I think we made Wildschut look far pacier than he actually was and who is to say that Hudson's experience and positioning could have not have nullified his threat! Hudson has never seen red in a Town shirt (another example of his experience), so I highly doubt he'd have been sent off at all - never mind in the 39 minutes left in the first half after he was subbed. All that said though, when in form and confident Schindler and Hefele would be my first choice pairing but Schindler needs to find that form and confidence pretty quick (2-3 weeks) if he doesn't want to lose his place to Hudson when he returns to full fitness. Fair enough, we'll never know. I think Wagner got caught out with Wigan's starting line up as he probably expected them to put Grigg or Le Finder up front in which case our defensive pairing would've been fine as they play a different style. However on seeing Wildschut up front the strategy should've been changed without a doubt, and I imagine if Wagner told Schindler and Stankovic to drop deeper, they would have. Which leads me to believe it was more a lack of invention on a strategic level than simply lack of experience/nouse on an individual level |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 2, 2016 0:54:09 GMT 1
Seriously, Hudson isn't the answer to anything!
We need the centre back wagner didn't sign- the one with decent pace who can dominate in the air.
He signed 3 and perhaps hefele is the only one to tick either of those boxes as he is reasonably quick.
All 3 are good with the ball, but we really needed at least one of them to be more than that aswell IMO.
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Post by wtd on Dec 2, 2016 1:15:33 GMT 1
I think everyone's lost a bit of confidence. These were players at the heart of our early season success when we were conceding very few goals. We need a win (or two) pretty quickly just to settle them down again and regain some belief. Couple of strong additions in January would give the whole team a lift. A dominant centre-back and a striker with presence would be the obvious choices. And no, before you say it... I don't have a clue who might be in our sights. , but a biggish centre forward is a necessity. DW says DH is always knocking on his door to discuss players/targets! Think you are right about a couple of wins getting us going. Difficult outside of football / sport to understand how important squad spirit and confidence can be. Me neither... not a chance, I'd wager. Was just stating the wish list. |
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Dec 2, 2016 2:26:59 GMT 1
Seriously, Hudson isn't the answer to anything! We need the centre back wagner didn't sign- the one with decent pace who can dominate in the air. He signed 3 and perhaps hefele is the only one to tick either of those boxes as he is reasonably quick. All 3 are good with the ball, but we really needed at least one of them to be more than that aswell IMO. Sadly, removing Hudson wasn't the answer to our defensive problems as it showed at Cardiff and against Wigan. Wagner obviously thought recalling him would help hence his selection on Monday evening. Our defensive woes have continued since Preston and Schindler has been the only CB constant in that time, his form and confidence looks awful at the moment and after seeing his performance on Monday evening I can totally understand why he was dropped to the bench. Why Hefele was dropped completely baffles me, recalling Hudson alongside Hefele would have made more sense but DW has forgotten more than I'll ever know about this group of players, so he must have his reasons. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 2, 2016 8:54:56 GMT 1
Heff and Schindler tomorrow
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 2, 2016 10:28:37 GMT 1
Seriously, Hudson isn't the answer to anything! We need the centre back wagner didn't sign- the one with decent pace who can dominate in the air. He signed 3 and perhaps hefele is the only one to tick either of those boxes as he is reasonably quick. All 3 are good with the ball, but we really needed at least one of them to be more than that aswell IMO. Sadly, removing Hudson wasn't the answer to our defensive problems as it showed at Cardiff and against Wigan. Wagner obviously thought recalling him would help hence his selection on Monday evening. Our defensive woes have continued since Preston and Schindler has been the only CB constant in that time, his form and confidence looks awful at the moment and after seeing his performance on Monday evening I can totally understand why he was dropped to the bench. Why Hefele was dropped completely baffles me, recalling Hudson alongside Hefele would have made more sense but DW has forgotten more than I'll ever know about this group of players, so he must have his reasons. Hudson and Schindler. Weak in the air and slow over the ground, both of them. Schindlers obviously much better with ball at feet, but they really don't make a good partnership IMO and Im amazed it took so long for other teams to target their joint weaknesses. A club like Town aren't going to attract , or afford, a centre back who covers all the bases- speed, aerial strength, good on the ball,.. so IMO the best you can do realistically is to have each of those things covered by the 2 together on the pitch. Think Wagners failed to do that with his 3 signings. He seems to have focused entirely on one thing- good on the ball when he was choosing his signings. That would be ok if the 2 already here ( Hudson and cranie) had aerial dominance and speed, but neither do. Weve ended up with a very unbalanced selection of centre backs as a result IMO. I don't understand why Hefele has been shunted right back down the pecking order either. Maybe something's gone on we don't know about? |
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