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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 3, 2017 18:25:26 GMT 1
I certainly don't! Nearly spat coffee out all over my keyboard when i read that mate!  |
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Jan 3, 2017 18:25:51 GMT 1
MOTM?? Seriously? I thought he was awful. He couldn't kick the ball anywhere near where he wanted it to go. His distribution was comical. His heading was weak. In a lousy game between 2 lousy teams on the day, he still stood out as being really poor. I didn't expect you to agree with me. Seriously ;-) I thought he did ok as the game went on. A bit of a dodgy start mind you  |
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Post by gledholt terrier on Jan 3, 2017 18:28:12 GMT 1
I certainly don't! Nearly spat coffee out all over my keyboard when i read that mate! It isn't much of an accolade whoever was man of that match. |
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Post by araucaria on Jan 3, 2017 18:32:19 GMT 1
One thing's for sure. Forest wouldn't have scored that goal on Boxing Day had it been Hudson against Perreira on half way. Hudson would have clambered all over him and given the free kick fifty yards out because that's what Hudson does. Occasionally, we concede from the resulting free-kick, but more often than not, his tactical fouls save us being exposed. Hudson is what he is - a good, experienced pro who hasn't got the legs anymore - but we look a lot more solid defensively with him there, although we lose out in footballing ability at bringing the ball out. He's had a very good season because we've found a system which largely stops him becoming isolated against an attacker as the last man. He can then use his intelligence and experience to help those around him. I've been impressed with him this year, but I would still be very surprised if he didn't hang his boots up after captaining our Play-Off final triumph. And then been given a red card because he was the last man. Which Hefele was. If, in this hypothetical situation, Hudson had brought him down in the centre circle, he would probably have escaped with just a booking, cf. Reading defender's last man foul on Nahki in the centre circle. I'm not saying that that would be the correct decision, just the likely outcome. |
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midlander
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by midlander on Jan 3, 2017 19:01:03 GMT 1
One thing's for sure. Forest wouldn't have scored that goal on Boxing Day had it been Hudson against Perreira on half way. Hudson would have clambered all over him and given the free kick fifty yards out because that's what Hudson does. Occasionally, we concede from the resulting free-kick, but more often than not, his tactical fouls save us being exposed. Hudson is what he is - a good, experienced pro who hasn't got the legs anymore - but we look a lot more solid defensively with him there, although we lose out in footballing ability at bringing the ball out. He's had a very good season because we've found a system which largely stops him becoming isolated against an attacker as the last man. He can then use his intelligence and experience to help those around him. I've been impressed with him this year, but I would still be very surprised if he didn't hang his boots up after captaining our Play-Off final triumph. And then been given a red card because he was the last man. Which Hefele was. Hudson would have brought him down before he'd turned though and there would have been enough other players around for ref to be unsure. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 19:17:10 GMT 1
Not his biggest fan but he did ok yesterday and considering we changed the whole back four I thought we defended pretty well, so much so Ward had now't to do. Only remember one really poor pass and won his fair share of headers, seen him play worse than that and I'm sure DW is more than happy with him and a clean sheet.
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terrier17
David Wagner Terrier
The Exclamation Terrier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[M0:5]
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Post by terrier17 on Jan 3, 2017 19:32:13 GMT 1
Hudson, Not suited to our style anymore, he was caught under the ball alot, he was pretty solid defensively, but it was a bit like last season where you expected a mistake, mis-placed pass etc. rather than feeling comfortable. For me Schindler and Heff are a step up and are now first choice. Stankovic. played well generally, I think he had been told not to commit forward, so we didnt get done on the break like we did last time vs wigan. So the part of his game that was weakest, driving forward into the gap with the ball, was probably as a result of instructions rather than what he wanted to do. Just about 3rd choice on that showing and the fact he has potential to improve. Hudson was MOM. Used his experience and know how to keep a disciplined back 4 which denied space behind - if he had stayed on the pitch in the home game I think we would have won. His first half passing was severely hampered by lack of movement (like everyone else). I've no idea what "caught under the ball means" - can't think of an occasion where his presence or actual winning of the ball didn't do the job. This has got to be a joke? 😂 |
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buckers
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by buckers on Jan 3, 2017 19:49:19 GMT 1
And then been given a red card because he was the last man. Which Hefele was. Hudson would have brought him down before he'd turned though and there would have been enough other players around for ref to be unsure. Are we still on about the forest game or just a hypothetical situation? If we are on about the forest game when the ball gets played through it wouldn't have mattered who was marking him it would have been a red. 10 second mark |
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Post by araucaria on Jan 3, 2017 20:13:41 GMT 1
Hudson would have brought him down before he'd turned though and there would have been enough other players around for ref to be unsure. Are we still on about the forest game or just a hypothetical situation? If we are on about the forest game when the ball gets played through it wouldn't have mattered who was marking him it would have been a red. 10 second mark But Hudson drops him in the first challenge and collects his booking. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 3, 2017 20:14:38 GMT 1
I didn't expect you to agree with me. Seriously ;-) I thought he did ok as the game went on. A bit of a dodgy start mind you He probably did, but suspect that was more to do with Wigan barely mounting an attack worthy of the name and getting over the half way line than any upturn in his form. Remember walking out thinking one of the few positives to take from that , in terms of performances, was that wagner must finally realise hudson just isn't good enough. I can understand wanting to rest midfielders , full backs, forwards but IMO centre backs don't need resting. They just don't cover enough ground to warrant it. Hefele and Schindler are wagners first choice picks now it seems, so give them games together and let them continue to forge an understanding. |
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Post by gledholt terrier on Jan 3, 2017 20:27:58 GMT 1
Hudson was MOM. Used his experience and know how to keep a disciplined back 4 which denied space behind - if he had stayed on the pitch in the home game I think we would have won. His first half passing was severely hampered by lack of movement (like everyone else). I've no idea what "caught under the ball means" - can't think of an occasion where his presence or actual winning of the ball didn't do the job. This has got to be a joke? 😂 Nope. I don't expect people to agree, especially avowed Hudson detractors because they watch with pre conceptions (which I understand- I'm sure I do to, though not with Hudson). First of all, I doubt wether there will be a lower bar for MOM than yesterday. It ain't a glowing commendation. Only a few weeks ago, and without Hudson for all but 7 minutes, Wigan exposed a fragile defence; not only with the 2 goals but also other breakaways. Last night was a completely different story. The game plan was predicated on certain players performing destructive roles - and the centre halves were key to denying space behind them. Both of them did it to the extent that the only time Wigan posed any threat was once when Wildschut cut in from the right past a full back and a winger and the other time when TDH was too slow to prevent a potential breakaway and took a card for the team. Neither had anything to do with Hudson or Stankovic. In an inexperienced team with many changes, leadership was key and Hudson provided it. The back 4 didn't falter despite the protection in front of them (Billing) was fragile from early on following his booking. It doesn't matter how you deal with aerial threat - either by heading it yourself or pressuring an opponent. Despite their massive Centre half going up for all set pieces, they were never a real threat. On the ball, Hudson was no worse than any of his team mates in the first half (I did say the bar was low) and didn't make any errors in the second. In the second half, Hudson leveraged opponents away from the ball on quite a few occasions - including drawing a foul when exposed one on one late on. Other contenders for the least prestigious MOM of the season (Fulham apart) were Stankovic, Cranie and Payne. While Payne's performance was more energetic than others, it didn't lead to much. Hudson was my MOM on the basis that he was key to Wagner's plan (leadership to deliver a boring but effective style) but it doesn't mean I was gushing over his performance. |
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Post by buxtonboys101 on Jan 3, 2017 21:09:26 GMT 1
I reelly rate Stankovic at centre half. He is only twenty and playing in a foreign country. I have been to Slovenia and it is rather basic but they do love their sport. I reckon where he comes from will be brimming with Town fans soon if he continues to play and impress. The Slovenians follow English football with a passion and if it is one of their own in team's colours they take to it. Get set for Slovenian Terriers on Tour flag in a couple of weeks.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 3, 2017 21:17:37 GMT 1
I thought he did ok as the game went on. A bit of a dodgy start mind you He probably did, but suspect that was more to do with Wigan barely mounting an attack worthy of the name and getting over the half way line than any upturn in his form. Remember walking out thinking one of the few positives to take from that , in terms of performances, was that wagner must finally realise hudson just isn't good enough. I can understand wanting to rest midfielders , full backs, forwards but IMO centre backs don't need resting. They just don't cover enough ground to warrant it. Hefele and Schindler are wagners first choice picks now it seems, so give them games together and let them continue to forge an understanding. DW saying that he likes to rest players for mental as much as physical refreshment. Would think centre halves need mental refreshment probably more than most positions 😩 |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jan 3, 2017 21:23:02 GMT 1
Poor in first half yesterday, just kicked ball straight out at one stage.
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Jan 3, 2017 21:46:45 GMT 1
He probably did, but suspect that was more to do with Wigan barely mounting an attack worthy of the name and getting over the half way line than any upturn in his form. Remember walking out thinking one of the few positives to take from that , in terms of performances, was that wagner must finally realise hudson just isn't good enough. I can understand wanting to rest midfielders , full backs, forwards but IMO centre backs don't need resting. They just don't cover enough ground to warrant it. Hefele and Schindler are wagners first choice picks now it seems, so give them games together and let them continue to forge an understanding. DW saying that he likes to rest players for mental as much as physical refreshment. Would think centre halves need mental refreshment probably more than most positions 😩 And with Stankovic playing maybe DW thought Hudson the best candidate to partner him given his experience? Dunno, but in DW we trust and it all turned out ok in the end. Another positive, another 90 minutes for Stankovic, gotta be doing the lad some good. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2017 21:58:59 GMT 1
DW saying that he likes to rest players for mental as much as physical refreshment. Would think centre halves need mental refreshment probably more than most positions 😩 And with Stankovic playing maybe DW thought Hudson the best candidate to partner him given his experience? Dunno, but in DW we trust and it all turned out ok in the end. Another positive, another 90 minutes for Stankovic, gotta be doing the lad some good. Correct I believe. Schindler has partnered Hudson for the best part of the season and gained from his experience. Stankovic getting the same learning opportunity. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 3, 2017 22:17:27 GMT 1
Well he seemed to be learning from his distribution ability as much as anything at Wigan! He was guilty of some pretty aimless passing too.
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Jan 4, 2017 0:58:17 GMT 1
Well he seemed to be learning from his distribution ability as much as anything at Wigan! He was guilty of some pretty aimless passing too. Yes, maybe a little "over enthusiastic" you might say |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Jan 4, 2017 17:05:18 GMT 1
What is important is that the club have defenders who can suit Wagner's style of play, thus have the pace to match opposition forwards especially when being caught on the break.
Hudson fails to come into this category .
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jan 4, 2017 17:13:51 GMT 1
What is important is that the club have defenders who can suit Wagner's style of play, thus have the pace to match opposition forwards especially when being caught on the break. Hudson fails to come into this category .  Clearly David Wagner considers that Mark Hudson has other attributes that justify his inclusion in the starting XI. Everyone on here knows you don't rate Hudson, but Wagner obviously does. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 4, 2017 18:27:33 GMT 1
The 3 year contract was with a view to a coaching role more than it was as a player for the next 3 years.
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Post by morleyterrier on Jan 4, 2017 19:28:46 GMT 1
I think that it is too easy for too many to just judge him on anything he does wrong.
Also his leadership and influence on those around him I think are underestimated. Thankfully not by the Players or Wagner it would seem.
I would also be interested to know what the points won and points lost ratio are with him in the side and not.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jan 4, 2017 19:33:30 GMT 1
What is important is that the club have defenders who can suit Wagner's style of play, thus have the pace to match opposition forwards especially when being caught on the break. Hudson fails to come into this category . I don't think any of our defenders have pace to burn. If you get caught on the break its not usually due to the quickness or slowness of individual defenders. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 23, 2017 4:08:57 GMT 1
Thank goodness he didn't start yesterday.
He carried the can for the similar defeat at Fulham. Clearly, it wasn't all his doing the reason Fulham can beat us as easily as they have done, twice.
Hef and Schindler though, you can't call them out.
If Hudson had started yesterday, he would have got dogs abuse on here.
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Post by dugnet on Apr 23, 2017 6:25:16 GMT 1
Thank goodness he didn't start yesterday. He carried the can for the similar defeat at Fulham. Clearly, it wasn't all his doing the reason Fulham can beat us as easily as they have done, twice. Hef and Schindler though, you can't call them out. If Hudson had started yesterday, he would have got dogs abuse on here. Why is there a need to call anyone out? We defended poorly as a team for 45 minutes against a very good side. I would prefer we hadn't but its gone now. Looking for weak links, reasons and giving opinions is natural but let's do so with context and the current context is we are still in a great position with a group of players who have proved themselves to be good enough to win the games required. They have also lost games where they have fallen below their best, it's football it happens. Everyone is pulling in the same direction and so should we now. |
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Post by stylishkids on Apr 23, 2017 7:00:29 GMT 1
What an absolutely bizarre thread to resurrect.
I agree we would have looked worse with him playing but the fact is, he was sat on the bench. I don't see a clamour of people on threads asking him to be brought in. Actually I haven't seen one. Literally slagging him off for, well to be honest I'm not quite sure why. We can't do anything about it at the end of April. You might as well have brought a thread up about Malvin Kamara to excuse Joe Lolleys performance.
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
That Gary Taylor fletcher will never make a footballer.....
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Apr 23, 2017 7:08:26 GMT 1
Thank goodness he didn't start yesterday. He carried the can for the similar defeat at Fulham. Clearly, it wasn't all his doing the reason Fulham can beat us as easily as they have done, twice. Hef and Schindler though, you can't call them out. If Hudson had started yesterday, he would have got dogs abuse on here. Schindler made 3 or 4 mistakes yesterday but generally did ok Heff was just terrible. Hudson made no errors so by that I make him our best defender yesterday. Seriously though that back 4 is the best I've ever seen at town and I think they can be forgiven. I'd rather they all made their mistakes in the same game. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 23, 2017 7:40:07 GMT 1
Thank goodness he didn't start yesterday. He carried the can for the similar defeat at Fulham. Clearly, it wasn't all his doing the reason Fulham can beat us as easily as they have done, twice. Hef and Schindler though, you can't call them out. If Hudson had started yesterday, he would have got dogs abuse on here. Why is there a need to call anyone out? We defended poorly as a team for 45 minutes against a very good side. I would prefer we hadn't but its gone now. Looking for weak links, reasons and giving opinions is natural but let's do so with context and the current context is we are still in a great position with a group of players who have proved themselves to be good enough to win the games required. They have also lost games where they have fallen below their best, it's football it happens. Everyone is pulling in the same direction and so should we now. Dugnet, my point is that certain Players are devoid of being able to tell it as it is (and not get lambasted for it) if they have had a shite performance and are rightly criticised. Other Players only ever get criticised, shite performance or not. My other very valid point is the 5-0 defeat at Fulham was by many firmly and squarely put down to Hudsons recall to central defence. Clearly it wasn't because we were carved open (again) with ease yesterday, no Hudson this time to carry the can and be the target for being the reason why. |
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Post by explorer on Apr 23, 2017 8:19:53 GMT 1
Jesus, let it go Morley! Hudson got the stick for the Fulham debacle because he was awful on the day, and still is our worst defensive option today. Pointless comparing the two games because then you'd have to say that we lost away at Preston with Hudson in defence but then beat them at home without him.
Barring injuries and the unlikely prospect of us securing a play-off place early enough to give Schindler/Heff a rest before the play-off game Mark is history. Let the poor lad lie in peace!
Having said that, DW will probably bring him back in to create a back five for the next three games in a clever Teutonic plan to secure our place via 3 X 0-0 draws..
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 23, 2017 8:30:21 GMT 1
Jesus, let it go Morley! Hudson got the stick for the Fulham debacle because he was awful on the day, and still is our worst defensive option today. Pointless comparing the two games because then you'd have to say that we lost away at Preston with Hudson in defence but then beat them at home without him. Barring injuries and the unlikely prospect of us securing a play-off place early enough to give Schindler/Heff a rest before the play-off game Mark is history. Let the poor lad lie in peace! Having said that, DW will probably bring him back in to create a back five for the next three games in a clever Teutonic plan to secure our place via 3 X 0-0 draws.. I agree with you here. My points though are still valid, there is one rule for one and another for others depending on the name of the Player |
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