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Post by hypotenuse on Mar 18, 2018 17:18:03 GMT 1
Good post. I’ve refrained from posting so I could really think about the game. I agree with your 4 players having a bad day and would add Mounié to that list. Really poor error for the crucial first goal, really poor touch with our best chance and didn’t really seem up for the fight. Unforgivable that he was one of at least 3 players who seemed to lack the desire to compete - Palace had all eleven players battling. I would give Lössl more than 6 out of 10. Good job he was in the right place at the right time to kick it off the line to stop their third goal though  True though it was only 1-0 at the time. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 18, 2018 17:20:32 GMT 1
Swansea....wrong tactics. Palace...wrong team. Worrying about Zaha too much...this led to misguidedly picking Quaner. Play the best 11...and thats VLP.The substitutions were woeful...again. Apologies for quoting you again Otium, but I'm just curious, if everyone's fit who would your starting 11 be? I'm sure, for all on here, the back 5 would be identical, the forward position would be a little debatable as would the two holding midfield players (Hogg, Mooy, Billing, Williams all raise discussion on here) but I would think the majority would go for the same (and I get it could depend on who we're playing), Pritchard would be in there for everyone just behind the forward and then the real debate, as it always seems to be, is who everyone would have in the two forward wide spots - Ince, VLP, Quaner, Kachunga. Mine would be: Lossl Flo Zanka Schindler Kongolo Mooy Hogg (but I would debate Williams) Kachunga Pritchard VLP (but I would debate Ince on the left) Mounie (but I would debate Depoitre) Subs Green Billing Lowe Stankovich Williams Ince Depoitre We haven't necessarily got an abundance of quality players to drop in these positions and we work with both the finances and the squad we have. Should we have brought in another left wide player in January, even on loan - possibly but we don't know all the behind the scenes tooings and froings, particularly money wise and we seem to have put all our eggs in one basket with getting Pritchard to solve a problem that we were all shouting for DW to solve. Is it unfortunate that Ince hasn't been the electric buy on the right we thought he would be - yes it is, but it's not as if he isn't putting a shift in. Did losing Kachunga for so long at a stage where he was just starting to find his feet after a tough few games limit choices - probably. Is Mooy not having quite the season he had last year - no he isn't and it's frustrating because we all love him down at the JSS. Has Kongolo's injury in the past two games come at an absolutely crucial time - almost certainly, the same with Williams. We could argue until the cows come on here the merits and issues of players and systems but at the end of the day, we all have our own opinions and views, come on here to discuss them positively or negatively, but DW/DH make the decisions and we just go with what we've got and do the best we can. Lossl Flo Zanka Schindler Kongolo Mooy Williams Kachunga Pritchard VLP Mounie/De Poitre The two weakest there for me are Kachunga and Zanka...but who to fill their boots? Ince and Hefele? No depth. Every team we play has a squad with 5 or 6 more players than us. Who is good enough for the Prem? I would argue just Lossl, Kongolo, Schindler, Mooy and on his day VLP....i am not sure the two strikers are up to it. |
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Post by willo on Mar 18, 2018 17:47:16 GMT 1
Before the start of last Saturday’s game, I (like most) hoped/expected a minimum of 4 points from these 2. The pressure is now on & it really is 50/50 for me as to whether we stay up. The only thing I’m taking some optimism from tonight is that both Stoke & WH are in bad shape but we have to dig a couple of wins out from somewhere. One or two points to make on individual performances after today; Lowe over Malone at LB every day of the week for me, Zanka will be fine whilst ever he has Schindler next to him - if Schinds is sold in the summer, Zanka will definitely miss him next season, unfortunately Ince just hasn’t been able to make the step up from the Championship to the Premier League and has been a big disappointment generally, Collin would never start a game in the Prem for me but as even he doesn’t know what he will do next, great option to have from the bench, what the hell is Mooy still doing taking ineffective free kicks when we now have Pritchard? If we do survive, we will have to bring some quality in during the summer and preferably some with some real Premier League know how, maybe nick the best players from some of those going down. Agree with most of this but think Collin gets unfair criticism. He's got more assists than any other player and probably been on the pitch least. He and Flo were our most effective/dangerous combination yesterday and rarely lost the ball compared to Malone Ince and VLP Don’t get me wrong, I have been one of Collin’s supporters and he has paid back whatever fee we paid for him several times over however, I don’t think he merits a starting place in the team. For me, he’s one you sling on with 20 mins to go if you’re chasing a result. |
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terrierbite
Iain Dunn Terrier
[M0:2]I played footy with Alf Young
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Post by terrierbite on Mar 18, 2018 17:47:33 GMT 1
And still twice as good as mooy was..... and dont get me started on ince.... jesus christ. Felt sorry for malone getting yanked at half time he somewhere in the middle of shiteness. Best to worst performers. Lossl schindler hadajonaj (could easily be first) Mounie Zanka Malone Hogg Pritchard Quanner Mooy Ince (Worst performance i have ever seen in a town shirt, heard boos when he was pulled, says it all. Needs to fucking turn up.) Zanka was terrible. I've got to be honest, I don't rate the guy at all. I have a similar opinion on Zanka ,the guy is too nice ,we need an aggressive center half ,another issue is that his distribution although better than was is so poor ,the guy is nice and buys people a pint but we need him to up his game quickly ,don't see another option for us however at this point of the season. |
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Post by willo on Mar 18, 2018 17:53:23 GMT 1
Swansea....wrong tactics. Palace...wrong team. Worrying about Zaha too much...this led to misguidedly picking Quaner. Play the best 11...and thats VLP. The substitutions were woeful...again. One of my issues yesterday was the total waste of substitutions. If we’d gone with Lowe over Malone, no change required (unless injured). Likewise with Collin starting over VLP, or Ince even. Then we would have been able to bring Depoitre or even Billing on in addition to Kachunga. Not often I think DW gets his starting line-up wrong but feel he did against CP. |
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Post by townrwe on Mar 18, 2018 17:59:16 GMT 1
And still twice as good as mooy was..... and dont get me started on ince.... jesus christ. Felt sorry for malone getting yanked at half time he somewhere in the middle of shiteness. Best to worst performers. Lossl schindler hadajonaj (could easily be first) Mounie Zanka Malone Hogg Pritchard Quanner Mooy Ince (Worst performance i have ever seen in a town shirt, heard boos when he was pulled, says it all. Needs to fucking turn up.) Ince was dreadful, but I've seen far worse from players up against inferior opposition to them. As ever, context is lost on you. The context is hes a 8 million pound premier league player and was dreadful. I usually quite like him, when others have given him pelters, but jeez. Id like to see his pass completion/retain possession stats from yesterday. I can barely remember a simple 5 yard pass he made. He wasnt alone. But hes "supposed" to be one of our better players and I wouldnt be happy getting him on a free on current form. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Mar 18, 2018 18:10:53 GMT 1
Ince was dreadful, but I've seen far worse from players up against inferior opposition to them. As ever, context is lost on you. The context is hes a 8 million pound premier league player and was dreadful. I usually quite like him, when others have given him pelters, but jeez. Id like to see his pass completion/retain possession stats from yesterday. I can barely remember a simple 5 yard pass he made. He wasnt alone. But hes "supposed" to be one of our better players and I wouldnt be happy getting him on a free on current form. £8m is nowt in the Prem. As I agreed, he was terrible yesterday, but that was nowhere near the worst performance considering how talented he is vs the opposition. Semantics I suppose, and ultimately he's struggled more as the season progressed, which is the opposite to what we hoped. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 18:25:22 GMT 1
well if southampton and west ham win their games in hand we are really in trouble. yesterdays inept performance and taking one point from 6 when we really needed at least 4 will come back to bite us in the ass.
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Post by yappledapple on Mar 18, 2018 18:43:18 GMT 1
Ince was dreadful, but I've seen far worse from players up against inferior opposition to them. As ever, context is lost on you. The context is hes a 8 million pound premier league player and was dreadful. I usually quite like him, when others have given him pelters, but jeez. Id like to see his pass completion/retain possession stats from yesterday. I can barely remember a simple 5 yard pass he made. He wasnt alone. But hes "supposed" to be one of our better players and I wouldnt be happy getting him on a free on current form. It's very easy looking for scapegoats after yesterday's abysmal performance but at times it really was man versus boys. Yesterday, like other games this season, we had too many players having an off day and unfortunately it was against one of our relegation rivals in a game that we'd all pencilled in as a possible 3 points. If you look on this forum after all of the matches we've played badly, we mercilessly crucify Ince, Quaner, Mounie, VLP, Mooy, Malone, Smith, Lossl, Kachunga et al. If we were the Plebs in the Roman ampitheatre and if DH was the Roman Emperor, all he would see is a stadium of 'thumbs down' at the final whistle. Only a handful of players, Schindler, Kongolo and possibly Pritchard, tend to escape the barrage of vitriol we aim at them. I get - they get paid a lot of money, we expect them to be able perform at the highest level, we want to cheer our team on, they are in the public eye so should take both the adulation and the criticism but they are playing at a level far beyond what the majority (if not all) have played at before against established teams and players who are proven premier league players and internationals the majority of them. We get by by playing as a team together and being the sum of more than our parts - that's our strength. Until we can compete financially, which is probably going to be highly unlikely under DH, we will always be clinging on with players who aren't quite good enough but by pulling together we can make a good fist of it. I think the two games against Newcastle and Brighton are going to be crucial and will be a lot closer due to the teams being very similar in make-up - two championship games with slightly better team set-ups than last year that give them a fighting chance in the Premier league. Looking at the body language of Ince and Malone yesterday - they know when they're not playing well and making mistakes, which for these two is for a few weeks now. It's frustrating but I'm sure they don't do it on purpose but, IMO, their body language and frustration shows a complete lack of confidence in their abilities at the moment. Sometimes I wonder whether they trying too hard and it just makes it worse. Constantly being subbed, constantly getting barracked from the crowd - there's genuinly no hiding places for them and its got to be hard. Even Mooy looks devoid of confidence at the moment and I think he really is a sensitive soul, so is greatly affected by negativity aimed at him - you can actually see his face and shoulders drop if he misplaces a pass or loses the ball. In short, they're all finding the step up tough and for some a step too far. Does DW know - of course he does. Can he do much about it - not massively. He can work week in week out on the training ground, but his squad is what it is and what it is is a team that, when on song, works together and punches above its weight and gives us something to cheer about. When someone's having a bad day and we're not working as a unit, the wheels come off and we get turned over. We've got to realise we're still in there, fighting. We're not Derby with a handful of points just seeing out the season end. We're not WBA who already looked doomed. We're not Sunderland - a mighty north-east club who are going to down again. We're still in it, we've got enough games left to claw ourselves away and be able to stick the proverbial fingers up at the naysayers. The players are what we've got, there's no magic transfer window to add more or even funds to do so; so however crap they're playing, however frustrating it is to watch, how disappointing the result is, there's absolutely nothing we can do apart from be frustrated silently, moan on here, but every match, whether at the JSS or away, just give it our all and try and raise them, whomever is in the starting 11 or on the pitch. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 18, 2018 20:52:13 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it.
Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training.
I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened.
We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1.
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Post by richhtfc on Mar 18, 2018 21:03:23 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. What’s the latest on Stankovic? Thought he’d be back by now |
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Post by palacekev1 on Mar 18, 2018 21:15:17 GMT 1
Palace squad lightyears ahead of Town's. No idea how they have struggled this season.   Thanks , but Palace haven't had the team spirt you've had that counts for a lot of the results, We've had so many 1st teamers injured and our lousy 7 game goal less start under FDB |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 21:20:55 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. Zanka's passing was excellent first half yesterday |
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Post by space hardware on Mar 18, 2018 21:30:28 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. Zanka's passing was excellent first half yesterday It was a massive improvement on what he's been doing all season. |
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Mar 18, 2018 21:38:31 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. That makes Cranie Div 3. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 18, 2018 21:40:08 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. What’s the latest on Stankovic? Thought he’d be back by now Forgot about him it is so long since he played. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 18, 2018 21:42:41 GMT 1
Zanka is OK when the ball comes at him...if its in behind he struggles. No real pace and worst of all is his distribution..he simply cannot pass it. Hoog and Mooy avoid passing to him, they have seen enough in training. I predicted the Zanka pen 5 minutes before it happened. We simply dont have back-up there since Cranie left because Hef is Div 1. Zanka's passing was excellent first half yesterday Yeh, like that 10 yard straight pass to a Palace player that nearly led to a goal. Woeful distributor. |
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Post by mightytj on Mar 18, 2018 21:58:31 GMT 1
Zanka's passing was excellent first half yesterday Yeh, like that 10 yard straight pass to a Palace player that nearly led to a goal. Woeful distributor. wasn't that Hogg? |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Mar 18, 2018 21:59:50 GMT 1
Yeh, like that 10 yard straight pass to a Palace player that nearly led to a goal. Woeful distributor. wasn't that Hogg? Yes...Hogg did a similar one....a straight forward 10 yard pass cut out. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 22:48:52 GMT 1
bit.ly/2FMGSDCPlayer ratings and review from yesterday’s dismal effort... that was tough
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 23:12:29 GMT 1
Williams is a massive blow. Perhaps the biggest of all at this time of the season.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Mar 19, 2018 9:51:25 GMT 1
I like VLP and can see what he brings to the team. However.... He does not take on players and certainly doesn't ever beat a man. He'd be in my side, but don't credit him with stuff he doesn't do. Yesterday was not his fault, mind. On another day we'd have scored at least one, but we just didn't seem to be quite "on it" So when he skinned 2 players against West Brom then Foster saved well with his feet? He takes on players all the time that’s why people bizarrely get annoyed with him cos yeah he doesn’t always get passed them. He’s not perfect, far from it, but no one in the squad is. We are a much weaker team with him missing us all I’m saying. 1 - "weaker team with him missing us" agreed. 2 - "skinned 2 players" OK, perhaps I was over stating that he never beats players, but I've never seen him "skin" two payers this season, let alone in one match. |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Mar 19, 2018 9:54:13 GMT 1
I like VLP and can see what he brings to the team. However.... He does not take on players and certainly doesn't ever beat a man. He'd be in my side, but don't credit him with stuff he doesn't do. Yesterday was not his fault, mind. On another day we'd have scored at least one, but we just didn't seem to be quite "on it" VLP does beat men. The trouble is, he wants to beat the same man again and again... Ok, you have your opinion, I have mine. I am a fan of his. But watch him next match (if selected) and count the number of times he beats a man - hint....you won't have to be very good at counting.. His two weaknesses are 1 - he doesn't beat a man 2 - Cant cross a ball. For all that, he'd be in my side out of this crop of players. |
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Mar 19, 2018 10:16:30 GMT 1
VLP does beat men. The trouble is, he wants to beat the same man again and again... Ok, you have your opinion, I have mine. I am a fan of his. But watch him next match (if selected) and count the number of times he beats a man - hint....you won't have to be very good at counting.. His two weaknesses are 1 - he doesn't beat a man 2 - Cant cross a ball. For all that, he'd be in my side out of this crop of players. Does beating himself not count? |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 19, 2018 18:07:09 GMT 1
One thing that did concern me on Saturday was how slow and lethargic we were when we received the ball back, even at 0-2 There was no real urgency to get back into the game. It was shite from start to finish. Maybe this was one of those games wagner didn't target to get points from? I certianly think when you are playing teams below you can be confident of picking up points.
I see a number of posters are comparing the performance to that of the home game against West Ham. We were poor against West Ham but they played very well that afternoon, we couldn't getting anywhere near Arnotvic and Lanzini, 2 of the best players we've seen down at the JSS this season.
Palace on the otherhand I thought they were nothing special and we gifted them 2 goals. The way Zaha has been branded about I was expecting a player of Messiesque ability. Imo he was a slightly better version of van la parra, ran at people and caused problems, chucked himself on the floor a bit, but was contained well throughout the game. That Serbian bloke that I've never heard of was their best player.
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Thanks , but Palace haven't had the team spirt you've had that counts for a lot of the results, We've had so many 1st teamers injured and our lousy 7 game goal less start under FDB
