|
|
Post by Metch on Apr 7, 2019 0:39:08 GMT 1
I've seen enough now to know the guy ain't gonna make it. Any decent manager would have put his marker down by now. DW did it in 2 games
|
|
|
|
Post by impact on Apr 7, 2019 1:12:17 GMT 1
We all love Dean Hoyle, but when it comes to football matters, I don’t think he’s very good. We took an eternity to get out of L1 with a big budget compared to the rest We struggled in championship until Wagner was presented to him by our DOF who he failed to hang onto. There little point In commenting on this season - the facts are there for all to see. We simply do not have enough football nouse in the boardroom. A big budget in L1 compared to the rest? Hardly. We shared a league with Southampton, Leeds, Charlton, Leicester, Wednesday, Sheff U and Norwich. Possibly Charlton aside all their budgets outweighed ours. |
|
|
|
Post by keithAM11532 on Apr 7, 2019 1:16:18 GMT 1
Its threads like this that make you despair. Oh surprise surprise, new manager cannot make relegated disinterested players perform to miracle standards therefore he is shite and we must dispense with him too. Too many FIFA la la land experts who know the square root of jack shit.
|
|
loumacari
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by loumacari on Apr 7, 2019 1:37:31 GMT 1
Its threads like this that make you despair. Oh surprise surprise, new manager cannot make relegated disinterested players perform to miracle standards therefore he is shite and we must dispense with him too. Too many FIFA la la land experts who know the square root of jack shit. Whatever. How many times do we have to say it. Nobody is expecting us to suddenly look like world beaters and start battering Premier League opposition. All we want is players buying into a style of play impressed on them by a manager with a vision and an indentity. Siewert is an arrogant, inexperienced, badly timed and misjudged apppintment. Thinking he’d be Wagner mk2. Well here’s some news for everybody, he’s not even Powell mk2, or Robins mk2. And if you want to argue it, tell me what posivity there is. Wake up and smell the coffee. P.S. if you want positivity, look at Darren Moore. And look where that got him. Siewert is miles away from him, absolutely miles away. |
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Apr 7, 2019 1:38:38 GMT 1
Its threads like this that make you despair. Oh surprise surprise, new manager cannot make relegated disinterested players perform to miracle standards therefore he is shite and we must dispense with him too. Too many FIFA la la land experts who know the square root of jack shit. You're missing the point I think, it's not about making the players perform to miracle standards it's about building a base, laying down the ground work and developing it. Unless I and many others are missing the plan, there doesn't seem to be one. There doesn't seem to be a style of play we're building towards. As I mentioned earlier when Wagner came in we were still losing more than winning but you could see where we were going and what was being worked on and that was being done while we had to be competitive each week and continue to pick points up. We've had over 3 months where the results have been largely irrelevant and I'm still not seeing anything that might have been worked on. |
|
loumacari
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,586
|
Post by loumacari on Apr 7, 2019 1:40:04 GMT 1
Its threads like this that make you despair. Oh surprise surprise, new manager cannot make relegated disinterested players perform to miracle standards therefore he is shite and we must dispense with him too. Too many FIFA la la land experts who know the square root of jack shit. You're missing the point I think, it's not about making the players perform to miracle standards it's about building a base, laying down the ground work and developing it. Unless I and many others are missing the plan, there doesn't seem to be one. There doesn't seem to be a style of play we're building towards. As I mentioned earlier when Wagner came in we were still losing more than winning but you could see where we were going and what was being worked on and that was being done while we had to be competitive each week and continue to pick points up. We've had over 3 months where the results have been largely irrelevant and I'm still not seeing anything that might have been worked on. Amen. You’ve written what I tried to write minus the beers. |
|
|
|
Post by keithAM11532 on Apr 7, 2019 2:00:27 GMT 1
Its threads like this that make you despair. Oh surprise surprise, new manager cannot make relegated disinterested players perform to miracle standards therefore he is shite and we must dispense with him too. Too many FIFA la la land experts who know the square root of jack shit. You're missing the point I think, it's not about making the players perform to miracle standards it's about building a base, laying down the ground work and developing it. Unless I and many others are missing the plan, there doesn't seem to be one. There doesn't seem to be a style of play we're building towards. As I mentioned earlier when Wagner came in we were still losing more than winning but you could see where we were going and what was being worked on and that was being done while we had to be competitive each week and continue to pick points up. We've had over 3 months where the results have been largely irrelevant and I'm still not seeing anything that might have been worked on. you cannot build a base when half your squad is likely to disappear. The man is looking to see who we can keep and who will have to go. lets face it, the results are totally and utterly irrelevant. People screaming for him to be sacked because their own personal demand for immediate satisfaction is not being delivered are utter fuckwits. |
|
|
|
Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 7, 2019 3:58:50 GMT 1
talking out of your arse. Am sorry, but he’s right. The players clearly don’t buy into it, we put square pegs in round holes and the results and score lines tell it as it is. I said when Wagner left, be careful what you wish for.... marginally more goals scored but that’s now 5 at Chelsea, 4 at West Ham and today where let’s be honest it could have been 7!!! We are appalling - no leadership, no direction, players all over the place and a complete lack of ideas. Today’s performance was abysmal - I’m all for keeping players who want to leave out, but stankovic in centre mid?! Mooy out on the flanks for long spells? Loewe out on the left flank with Durm behind? Pritchard floating around anywhere and contributing fuck all? Who thinks up these tactics? It’s just a smorgasbord of absolute rubbish! As for hamer - sadly he’s shot! No confidence, no belief and needs to rediscover himself elsewhere - too many here won’t have him, however much he may improve.....too much baggage and some are revelling in his misery at present. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this man will take us anywhere near promotion again. I'm not with Positive for stating as matter of fact the poster is incorrect, but what exactly qualifies you to make a solid judgement on Siewert's credentials? We are people who sit in the stands and are far experts, as much as a few think they are. |
|
|
|
Post by captainblack on Apr 7, 2019 5:15:00 GMT 1
JS took over when we were rock bottom and we looked
completely doomed , I would have been happier if the
team had picked up more points since Jans arrival, but
I think it is unwise to be considering sacking Jan
after only a limited amount of games with a completely
demoralised squad.
My opinion is wait, give the man a fair chance , and
lets see what the guy has to offer with his own squad
of players and a fresh season in the championship.
It may be that Jan is a complete success , at this stage
no one knows what the future holds , I just do not want
the club to be hasty and get rid of a potentially great
manager.
|
|
|
|
Post by shawsie on Apr 7, 2019 7:12:22 GMT 1
Am sorry, but he’s right. The players clearly don’t buy into it, we put square pegs in round holes and the results and score lines tell it as it is. I said when Wagner left, be careful what you wish for.... marginally more goals scored but that’s now 5 at Chelsea, 4 at West Ham and today where let’s be honest it could have been 7!!! We are appalling - no leadership, no direction, players all over the place and a complete lack of ideas. Today’s performance was abysmal - I’m all for keeping players who want to leave out, but stankovic in centre mid?! Mooy out on the flanks for long spells? Loewe out on the left flank with Durm behind? Pritchard floating around anywhere and contributing fuck all? Who thinks up these tactics? It’s just a smorgasbord of absolute rubbish! As for hamer - sadly he’s shot! No confidence, no belief and needs to rediscover himself elsewhere - too many here won’t have him, however much he may improve.....too much baggage and some are revelling in his misery at present. I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think this man will take us anywhere near promotion again. I'm not with Positive for stating as matter of fact the poster is incorrect, but what exactly qualifies you to make a solid judgement on Siewert's credentials? We are people who sit in the stands and are far experts, as much as a few think they are. Nothing qualifies me per se.....its like the game, its about opinions. I respect anybody's opinion and totally understand others who feel we have to give jan time. All i firmly believe is he has lost these players and it will take a whole restructure to get anywhere and from what ive seen i wouldnt gamble it on him............imho, we are worse far worse than under wagner and there is no pattern, no shape and worst of all players are being crucified out of position. I dont think he has an idea of how to change it either based on the evidence thus far as when he makes changes we actually get worse. |
|
|
|
Post by Manx Terrier on Apr 7, 2019 7:42:56 GMT 1
Interesting? Perhaps. I’d say “worrying” or “concerning” are more appropriate adjectives personally. there is no doubt its a difficult time but I prefer to see what happens in the close season but you are a true supporter that's more than some on here. keep well Having the gall to say posters are not true supporters because of criticism ? You really have no idea. |
|
|
|
Post by gymroidspump on Apr 7, 2019 7:48:30 GMT 1
there is no doubt its a difficult time but I prefer to see what happens in the close season but you are a true supporter that's more than some on here. keep well Having the gall to say posters are not true supporters because of criticism ? You really have no idea. DATM is a clique that doesn't represent the fan base one little bit. Say any number of things that the DATMers don't agree with and in their eyes you're not a real fan |
|
|
|
Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 7, 2019 8:14:47 GMT 1
His statement that They were more clinical is a bit obvious imo.
No point saying it.
Massive job on his hands.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 8:17:54 GMT 1
If we lose every other game from here on in, I think it’ll be very hard for him to stay on. 1 win in 15, or, 14 losses in 15 is very much sackable form.
All this nonsense about “top managers” not being abale to get this squad - they could get a damn sight more out of them than what we’re getting currently. That’s why they’re top managers.
I think the Hockaday comparison is actually quite a good one. Saw someone else make this point a while back, would any other Premier League or even Championship team have appointed a manager with the credentials of Siewert?
|
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Apr 7, 2019 8:22:33 GMT 1
You're missing the point I think, it's not about making the players perform to miracle standards it's about building a base, laying down the ground work and developing it. Unless I and many others are missing the plan, there doesn't seem to be one. There doesn't seem to be a style of play we're building towards. As I mentioned earlier when Wagner came in we were still losing more than winning but you could see where we were going and what was being worked on and that was being done while we had to be competitive each week and continue to pick points up. We've had over 3 months where the results have been largely irrelevant and I'm still not seeing anything that might have been worked on. you cannot build a base when half your squad is likely to disappear. The man is looking to see who we can keep and who will have to go. lets face it, the results are totally and utterly irrelevant. People screaming for him to be sacked because their own personal demand for immediate satisfaction is not being delivered are utter fuckwits. Why can't you? Wouldn't you want to see who is going to fit in to the way you want to play for when results do start to matter? I'll go back to Wagner because it's the easiest example but why did he start using his philosophy when he came in then signed basically a new team? Because he wanted to see which of his current players would fit in to what he wants. You're suggesting there's nothing he can do except throw 11 players out every week but that's rubbish, he's wasting an opportunity hardly any other managers get. |
|
|
|
Post by Floyds on Apr 7, 2019 8:22:43 GMT 1
No credentials at all - which is why there’s no basis for believing he can/will successfully oversee the summer rebuild and suddenly turn us around from next August.
Hopefully we won’t waste next season by continuing with him too long...
|
|
|
|
Post by derekoconnor on Apr 7, 2019 8:31:53 GMT 1
In fairness he took over when we were at a all time low and yes we were in the premier league the novelty had warn off the players and they were looking for out that’s my view
|
|
|
|
Post by shelterr on Apr 7, 2019 8:44:08 GMT 1
It's true Sievert took over a demoralised squad,however I would have expected the players to show enthusiasm and commitment in the first home match for the new manager. This match was against Everton and for me was one of the worst performances of the season in a game we might have won.
Since then, there have only been flashes of commitment and desire.
If Sievert has not got the backing of senior players, then he needs to go. We can't afford to change the whole squad, and if we do then the quality of players will be less, and who knows how they'll gell - Fulham tried and failed and spent a considerable amount.
No for me, we need a different manager. One with experience and command, who has direction. We may retain some of our better players if we have someone like that. Otherwise I fear we'll struggle at best next season.
Who would I like to see in charge? Possibly the Barnsley manager, or Jocanovic, but someone with Championship experience - what about Rafa?
|
|
|
|
Post by football on Apr 7, 2019 9:01:33 GMT 1
If we where to go for the Barnsley manager we already have his old number 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by rastrick32 on Apr 7, 2019 9:05:02 GMT 1
Having the gall to say posters are not true supporters because of criticism ? You really have no idea. DATM is a clique that doesn't represent the fan base one little bit. Say any number of things that the DATMers don't agree with and in their eyes you're not a real fan Yep, like that time when you pretty much called Mooy crap and nobody agreed with you and you had a little strop. That isn't a clique; it is rational posters responding to total bullshit. |
|
rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,101
|
Post by rocky on Apr 7, 2019 9:07:23 GMT 1
You're missing the point I think, it's not about making the players perform to miracle standards it's about building a base, laying down the ground work and developing it. Unless I and many others are missing the plan, there doesn't seem to be one. There doesn't seem to be a style of play we're building towards. As I mentioned earlier when Wagner came in we were still losing more than winning but you could see where we were going and what was being worked on and that was being done while we had to be competitive each week and continue to pick points up. We've had over 3 months where the results have been largely irrelevant and I'm still not seeing anything that might have been worked on. you cannot build a base when half your squad is likely to disappear. The man is looking to see who we can keep and who will have to go. lets face it, the results are totally and utterly irrelevant. People screaming for him to be sacked because their own personal demand for immediate satisfaction is not being delivered are utter fuckwits. Some good points Keith, but as ever with any voice of reason on here, totally wasted. People instead prefer to moan and criticise everything, trotting out meaningless bullshit cliches like ‘lost the plot’, ‘lost the dressing room’ and the worst of the lot ‘tactically naive’. Siewert may well turn out to be a poor appointment but you simply can’t tell at the moment as he’s inherited a squad of players who are woefully out of their depth and that gulf can’t be bridged by the odd tweak in tactics. Time to judge him is about a dozen games into next season, by which point he’ll have had enough time (coupled with all the comings and going’s) to make his own mark. |
|
|
|
Post by gymroidspump on Apr 7, 2019 9:12:21 GMT 1
Your response isn't very rational. I think you need a sit down.
I've not seen Mooy play well for quite a bit of time. That's my opinion. Your opinion is yours.
I'd sack Mooy off pronto and get as much as possible for him.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 9:15:13 GMT 1
The defence has looked amateurish for a long time but has got worse since jan came. It’s such a hard time to come in but playing Hamer is conceding the points before a balls been kicked. That’s been proven several times already this season. I’m personally far from convinced about stabkovic as a Cm or a can. Majorly at fault against West Ham, looked lost yesterday against tielemans and Maddison. Smith is dreadful. Why are both Lowe and dirk playing ffs. Where is Mooy what on earth is our by Nike’s best player being played out wide and why is Bacuna or Pritchard stuck out there. Change the system if they’re the only players available.
Struggling to see how Jan can change it around and now he has to try and win the fans round too.
It’s not as easy to bring a nobody in when the players have achieved something already. Differentfor Wagner as there were no expectations and none of the players could argue with anything. Not the same now. I don’t/can’t really see it working out with Jan.
|
|
|
|
Post by Up the Duff. on Apr 7, 2019 9:19:13 GMT 1
I'm not with Positive for stating as matter of fact the poster is incorrect, but what exactly qualifies you to make a solid judgement on Siewert's credentials? We are people who sit in the stands and are far experts, as much as a few think they are. Nothing qualifies me per se.....its like the game, its about opinions. I respect anybody's opinion and totally understand others who feel we have to give jan time. All i firmly believe is he has lost these players and it will take a whole restructure to get anywhere and from what ive seen i wouldnt gamble it on him............imho, we are worse far worse than under wagner and there is no pattern, no shape and worst of all players are being crucified out of position. I dont think he has an idea of how to change it either based on the evidence thus far as when he makes changes we actually get worse. I like you respect the opinions of those who think he should be given time and can see why they think this, I just don't see it in him and do not believe he ever had the credentials for the job and it is showing. What I don't understand is why a few people on the side of the argument for him to stay seem to abuse those who think he should go and why they suggest such people are clueless about football or as thick as pig shit. Is it not possible for people just to have a different opinion. Too much abuse and aggression in life when people have different opinions, it's no wonder there are so many wars and so much violence. Chill out. |
|
|
|
Post by samhudds on Apr 7, 2019 9:24:55 GMT 1
The problem is, do we have time to give him?
Huge summer ahead, with a big wallet to spend. There will be lots of players leaving no matter what, and these will need replacing. It’s a huge risk giving this man such a wallet to spend, but then surely we knew this risk anyway. Hoyle has been put in a very difficult position due to the fact he’s had such a bad start, and seemingly caused such unrest in the camp. He either needs to be backed to the full which will come at a big cost financially, with huge risks, or we need rid now. This is one of the biggest summers we have ever had where we are actually going to be major financial players in the league.
To me, he’s too much of a risk, time will tell I suppose!
|
|
|
|
Post by htfcsince70 on Apr 7, 2019 9:26:14 GMT 1
For the first time ever in 49 years I almost left the game early yesterday - I didn't I stayed until the bitter end - I don't know why. Perhaps it was to seek solace with the few remaining supporters around me - that said I had to walk down the seating area a few metres to find one! We were all of the same opinion - we are going backwards. I/we could not see a shape, pattern or style of play, square pegs in round holes - Mooy on the right and a centre half in the centre of midfield beggars belief! I had every hope for Jan but it is quickly disappearing - and I know that he inherited a difficult situation but I'm beginning to believe that Martin from Wakefield might have more idea of how to set the team up - in fact on was hopeful that on April 1st I would find out that it had all been one long joke and that Martin had actually been in charge and Jan would now step up! So many players looking out of their depth and arguing amongst themselves - something I have not seen for many years. I am really worried about next season and hope that we don't slip out of the Championship and beyond. I know that no one does things on purpose and that they all want to do their best but sometimes you just have to hold you hands up and say we got it wrong - I'm beginning to think that the Dortmund II has run its course. (Apologies for posting this again on another thread) Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/111998/type-system-jan-wanting-play?page=1#ixzz5kOcDmZ3e |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 9:31:30 GMT 1
Wagner was shown little loyalty by a lot of fans and I used to rage about it but I’ve had to accept that he had definitely lost his confidence and had become way too defensive. A change was needed and Wagner himself knew this and took the plunge.
I’m now finding the loyalty to Jan a bit full on. I personally haven’t seen anything from him to suggest he can create a winning team next year.
I have tons of time for Hoylie but he’s made some pretty terrible managerial appointments before and retained them for far too long too(Clark).
Ideally someone would have come in and galavanised the squad showing them what might have been this year performances and/or results wise- lots of winnable games since Jan took over and teams are not as focussed or motivated. Leicester were hardly like rabid dogs were they. It was like a pre season practice match. We could’ve then kept morale and the belief we could bounce back and retained our best players. Jan seems to want shot by dropping them, slagging them off or playing them out of position.
Players are everything these days. We need as many superior ones as we can for next year. I hope something changes soon.
|
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Apr 7, 2019 9:46:25 GMT 1
We all know we were down before he arrived, err didn't we?
Yes, these games matter for pride but more importantly allowing him to look at the quality and equally importantly the character of the players he's inherited. Some of whom had already given up and are looking to pastures new.
That's what he's doing, he's rotating, experimenting, learning. Next season will be tough, but to write him off on the basis of what he's doing now with an injury hit, demotivated squad, is ridiculous.
|
|
|
|
Post by kennyk2 on Apr 7, 2019 10:07:41 GMT 1
The only person who will have any influence on JS, whether he stays or goes, is Dean Hoyle. He came out one week ago and said that he has total faith in the manager and that they are planning for next season. It seems as though the most vociferous posters on DATM disagree, but that is their right. Fortunately, I doubt their outbursts will have any influence on DH, but DATM gives them an outlet for their fury.
The person who has all the information at his fingertips is the chairman, whom I trust implicitly to do make decisions with the best intentions of the club, even if sometimes these decisions don't work out. I'd rather entrust my club to him and allow him to make the calls with the information that none of us are privy to.
|
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Apr 7, 2019 10:13:20 GMT 1
No credentials at all - which is why there’s no basis for believing he can/will successfully oversee the summer rebuild and suddenly turn us around from next August. Hopefully we won’t waste next season by continuing with him too long... Exactly, looks like a very naive appointment by the club and let’s face it probably the same people who brought in Rebbe and the absolute dross in the summer. Thinking about it it’s hardly a surprise that they’ve balled up this appointment also. Time to admit the mistake and move on in time for the summer. Problem is who at the club can be trusted to make any sensible footballing decisions these days. |
|
