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Post by townrwe on May 6, 2019 18:20:50 GMT 1
PH likes a good old rant at people he disagrees with be it on social media or in public. He got a two match stadium ban for a rant at a referee at Southport. Good luck HT fans, you are going to need it! Him and seiwert seem a match made in heaven as long as hes the type to say it, sort it and forget it. |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on May 23, 2019 10:01:35 GMT 1
Heard a story alleged from a close source that PH has paid a nominal fee 6m for the club and the rest of the takeover is going to be paid for by the parachute payments. Deano has kept 25% incase it goes wrong and can buy the club back at agreed price.
I can't see this myself and didn't seem possible but read that's exactly how Sunderland allegedly financed their takeover.
It does seem strange that most other buyouts of clubs quote figures other details ours has been a bit cloak n dagger.
To be honest so long as we have a good team to cheer and the future is safe then alls well
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 10:13:44 GMT 1
Ive zero idea how buying a club works, but if the above is true and what some have said, its a strange one.
I will give you a certain amount now, then i will give you the rest from parachute payments, money which the previous owner basically earned himself, sounds odd on any level.
Like i say, dont understand the football workings, but if thats the case, its odd. Kinda like youre being bought out with your own money, which if it is true, he is.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on May 23, 2019 10:27:07 GMT 1
From the takeovers and acquisitions that I've been involved in you would always factor in guaranteed revenues (eg parachute payments) in the valuation of the business. There's no way Dean wouldn't take that into account even if he's not looking to profit from the sale.
But ignoring what price Dean receives, he's said multiple times he wants to leave the club in good hands with someone who has Town's best interests at heart. Passing the club over to somebody who is effectively going to asset strip it (and a guaranteed income like this is an asset) does not seem to be something that you could imagine Dean doing.
So this just doesn't add up to me.
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Post by ritchie on May 23, 2019 10:34:15 GMT 1
I dont buy this about purchasing the club via parachute payments...why would dean agree to it? dean would be in effect asset stripping the club on his way out the door. he'd be better off keeping ownership, have PH run it then flog it when someone with enough brass comes along
also if PH can only purchase using parachute payments how would dean expect him to finance everything else, such as wages? would be absolute suicide
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Post by ritchie on May 23, 2019 10:37:59 GMT 1
From the takeovers and acquisitions that I've been involved in you would always factor in guaranteed revenues (eg parachute payments) in the valuation of the business. There's no way Dean wouldn't take that into account even if he's not looking to profit from the sale. But ignoring what price Dean receives, he's said multiple times he wants to leave the club in good hands with someone who has Town's best interests at heart. Passing the club over to somebody who is effectively going to asset strip it (and a guaranteed income like this is an asset) does not seem to be something that you could imagine Dean doing. So this just doesn't add up to me. beat me too it, and it would really be hoyle doing the asset stripping as it would be him ending up with the bag of money. |
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on May 23, 2019 10:38:29 GMT 1
From the takeovers and acquisitions that I've been involved in you would always factor in guaranteed revenues (eg parachute payments) in the valuation of the business. There's no way Dean wouldn't take that into account even if he's not looking to profit from the sale. But ignoring what price Dean receives, he's said multiple times he wants to leave the club in good hands with someone who has Town's best interests at heart. Passing the club over to somebody who is effectively going to asset strip it (and a guaranteed income like this is an asset) does not seem to be something that you could imagine Dean doing. So this just doesn't add up to me. That's what I thought and argued the point. I know nothing of business but know as you said the parachute cash is an asset so in theory is deans. Like I said it just became interesting when heard Sunderland have allegedly done a similar thing so was interested in any view points from people who know about businesses better than myself. |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on May 23, 2019 10:41:18 GMT 1
In my simpleton head, wouldn't this come across as a bit dodgy, accountancy-wise? Dean essentially selling the club way below market value, tax avoidance etc. etc.
If you park your tribal football brain for a second, we're still very much an attractive going concern, even allowing for the KDSL connotations. It's not as though we're a club in dire straits and we're having to sell the club for a quid...
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Post by Solihull Terrier on May 23, 2019 10:41:44 GMT 1
From the takeovers and acquisitions that I've been involved in you would always factor in guaranteed revenues (eg parachute payments) in the valuation of the business. There's no way Dean wouldn't take that into account even if he's not looking to profit from the sale. But ignoring what price Dean receives, he's said multiple times he wants to leave the club in good hands with someone who has Town's best interests at heart. Passing the club over to somebody who is effectively going to asset strip it (and a guaranteed income like this is an asset) does not seem to be something that you could imagine Dean doing. So this just doesn't add up to me. That's what I thought and argued the point. I know nothing of business but know as you said the parachute cash is an asset so in theory is deans. Like I said it just became interesting when heard Sunderland have allegedly done a similar thing so was interested in any view points from people who know about businesses better than myself. It definitely happens and Man Utd are the best example of a buyer using the clubs own money effectively to buy the club. Just seems unlikely that Deano would allow that kind of thing to happen and risk souring all that goodwill. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 10:47:12 GMT 1
From the takeovers and acquisitions that I've been involved in you would always factor in guaranteed revenues (eg parachute payments) in the valuation of the business. There's no way Dean wouldn't take that into account even if he's not looking to profit from the sale. But ignoring what price Dean receives, he's said multiple times he wants to leave the club in good hands with someone who has Town's best interests at heart. Passing the club over to somebody who is effectively going to asset strip it (and a guaranteed income like this is an asset) does not seem to be something that you could imagine Dean doing. So this just doesn't add up to me. Thought as much, just does not make sense what some are led to believe |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 23, 2019 10:49:40 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business..
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Post by alexdire on May 23, 2019 11:04:26 GMT 1
Heard a story alleged from a close source that PH has paid a nominal fee 6m for the club and the rest of the takeover is going to be paid for by the parachute payments. Deano has kept 25% incase it goes wrong and can buy the club back at agreed price. I can't see this myself and didn't seem possible but read that's exactly how Sunderland allegedly financed their takeover. It does seem strange that most other buyouts of clubs quote figures other details ours has been a bit cloak n dagger. To be honest so long as we have a good team to cheer and the future is safe then alls well I can see this definitely being the case. Reading's takeover prior to the Thai's was financed exactly the same way. |
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Post by bluestripe on May 23, 2019 11:05:54 GMT 1
This confusion could be related to the cash flow of the financing of PH's bid.
Maybe he is going to pay Dean what he has accumulated in debt in line with the timing of the Parachute Payments.
So let's say the purchase price is £60m as was rumoured. PH pays a tranche of the £60m to Dean as and when Town receive a PP.
If so, this would be a separate consideration to the value of HTAFC, as people have already indicated above.
Once you take out the PP's and Dean's debt which will offset each other to a large extent, what of significance is left other than the liabilities to players and the offsetting value of their contracts. (I take it that the stadium share and Canalside are not in the current deal). It will be this offsetting value that PH is paying for.
NB. Pure speculation on my part
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 11:41:16 GMT 1
Question is, what is the worth of the business ?
Deano wants his money back, the parachute payments allow for the £50m Director loans to be repaid over the next 3 years.
What is the business worth without this income stream ? Any more than £6m for a championship club with a limited turnover ? Highly unlikely.
If Dean literally sold the shares for the alleged £60m, he'd have a tax bill on his hands.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on May 23, 2019 11:47:19 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business.. You're intimating Dean Hoyle has lied to the fans? |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on May 23, 2019 11:49:57 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business.. so you are suggesting that the real takeover is not by 'a person' but a business using 'a person' as a front? |
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Post by mids on May 23, 2019 12:13:51 GMT 1
I know Dean's been ill but that won't have made him a liar. The man has integrity and scruples, and has always been truthful...even if we fans won't like it.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 23, 2019 12:20:13 GMT 1
Our incoming transfer activity will be a good indicator as to how the deal is being funded
If we sell the likes of Mooy, Kongolo etc and replace them with low cost transfers, frees and loans then I think it's pretty obvious what's going on
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Post by Mav on May 23, 2019 12:30:40 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business.. What does that even mean?? |
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Post by ACW on May 23, 2019 12:50:19 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business.. What does that even mean?? It's typical galpharm2400 - he specialises in cryptic statements. I often get headaches trying to work out the meaning behind his posts. And I wish he'd stop using two fulls tops all of time - it only adds to the uncertainty..  |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 23, 2019 12:53:34 GMT 1
bloke running the club is not the 'investor' or 'investors' at this time, just a face for the business.. What does that even mean?? you invest with an agreement to buy at a later date at a price agreed now.. you may lose that initial investment should the club go backwards on the field but you only lose a set amount..should success arrive you can invoke the agreement and gain control at a price agreed one or even 2 years earlier? the initial investment is sponsorship or other... you want a premier league club but you cant just buy one so you invest in a possible future one..? hugely risky to 'buy' us as a premier club, less risky to speculate. or maybe Dean has let a bloke buy the club with money we have already paid out over the last few years and there will be five bob to buy players and pay wages? |
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Post by sykeylad on May 23, 2019 12:56:55 GMT 1
Sounds eminently plausible but so what?
Deane still has a 25% stake in the club. If money went back to him we haven't got yet, he put in there in the first place.
We are not going to throw big money into signings and wages and then cut back to a small budget if we don't get back up in 2 years. That has already been said. Keep up.
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Post by impact on May 23, 2019 13:06:58 GMT 1
Could this not just be timing?
Dean had to inject a lot of money in the summer of 2017 for transfers before we received any prem money. I think it was around £40m but don't have the accounts to hand.
Say Phil has to pay Dean, I don't know, £50m now for the deal? (Totally made up number). That could leave him short of immediate cash to invest. I don't know when parachute payments are due to be paid but I'd assume it's similar to when prem money comes in.
So rather than paying cash up front leaving him needing to find other income sources for transfers, he injects that money into the club for deals and then pays Dean when the guaranteed parachute money comes in.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 13:09:05 GMT 1
I know Dean's been ill but that won't have made him a liar. The man has integrity and scruples, and has always been truthful...even if we fans won't like it. I know one occasion he has lied "We wont sleep walk into relegation" Well, he didnt lie, we sleep drove into it |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 23, 2019 13:11:32 GMT 1
Sounds eminently plausible but so what? Deane still has a 25% stake in the club. If money went back to him we haven't got yet, he put in there in the first place. We are not going to throw big money into signings and wages and then cut back to a small budget if we don't get back up in 2 years. That has already been said. Keep up. investment now with options later means we neither go mad with the money now or have to seriously cut back in a couple of years or so...balanced approach with the spread of the on field investment over years not a season??? Dean can only protect the clubs sensible business plan for so long..having a period of control whilst the club is most vulnerable both on and off the field seems eminently sensible to me.. |
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Post by goalden on May 23, 2019 13:12:35 GMT 1
The interviews that Dean gave after the final game suggested that all the 'big', 'overseas' investors wanted to buy in but keep Dean as the figurehead - which he clearly stated that he didn't want.
It would then make perfect sense that he hands over the reigns to another fan who is then free to either put in his own money or source/accept the third party investor deals that Dean didn't want to get involved in.
Also - who does it benefit to shout our mouth off that we have loads of additional funding just as we are about to start shopping - surely everyone would put up their prices.
Hopefully once everyone is back from their holidays in early June we will get all the deals sorted and then start a similar PR blitz of two seasons ago:
PR timetable for June
Announce additional funding (fanfare) - fans get excited/media interviews with new chairman etc/new era for the club etc
Announce players signing - fans get more excited
Announce the players leaving - fans get a bit down
Announce popular players staying with new contracts - fans back to being excited
Announce more players signing - unbridled optimism.
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Post by benhomly on May 23, 2019 13:19:37 GMT 1
The interviews that Dean gave after the final game suggested that all the 'big', 'overseas' investors wanted to buy in but keep Dean as the figurehead - which he clearly stated that he didn't want. It would then make perfect sense that he hands over the reigns to another fan who is then free to either put in his own money or source/accept the third party investor deals that Dean didn't want to get involved in. Also - who does it benefit to shout our mouth off that we have loads of additional funding just as we are about to start shopping - surely everyone would put up their prices. Hopefully once everyone is back from their holidays in early June we will get all the deals sorted and then start a similar PR blitz of two seasons ago: PR timetable for June Announce additional funding (fanfare) - fans get excited/media interviews with new chairman etc/new era for the club etc Announce players signing - fans get more excited Announce the players leaving - fans get a bit down Announce popular players staying with new contracts - fans back to being excited Announce more players signing - unbridled optimism. The only problem with that scenario being that after 2 or 3 seasons of mid table obscurity in the Championship (or worse) we'll have been forgotten about by those overseas investors and we're then left with an owner with little money. Possibly. Not that I'm suggesting Deano should have sold out to those interested parties of course. |
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Post by terrierneil on May 23, 2019 13:52:16 GMT 1
This is a fucking disgrace if we're being honest.
Parachute payments are intended so you have enough money left to actually pay your players who are still on huge contracts. Or to buy and pay new players when your best ones leave.
They should not be used to give to a departing chairman!
Sunderland did this you say?? Oh, fantastic! How did it work out for them??
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Tiro
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Tiro on May 23, 2019 13:56:29 GMT 1
The interviews that Dean gave after the final game suggested that all the 'big', 'overseas' investors wanted to buy in but keep Dean as the figurehead - which he clearly stated that he didn't want. It would then make perfect sense that he hands over the reigns to another fan who is then free to either put in his own money or source/accept the third party investor deals that Dean didn't want to get involved in. Also - who does it benefit to shout our mouth off that we have loads of additional funding just as we are about to start shopping - surely everyone would put up their prices. Hopefully once everyone is back from their holidays in early June we will get all the deals sorted and then start a similar PR blitz of two seasons ago: PR timetable for June Announce additional funding (fanfare) - fans get excited/media interviews with new chairman etc/new era for the club etc
Announce players signing - fans get more excited
Announce the players leaving - fans get a bit down
Announce popular players staying with new contracts - fans back to being excited
Announce more players signing - unbridled optimism. This may well be the bone-fide strategy at the club: is this based on gut or intel? I'm not sure its as regimented as you portray to be honest eg. players in and out is dependent on when the deals can be done, this is irregardless of PR. And all in June? Although I do understand that the club may wish to soften what could be considered bad news. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 23, 2019 14:07:31 GMT 1
This is a fucking disgrace if we're being honest. Parachute payments are intended so you have enough money left to actually pay your players who are still on huge contracts. Or to buy and pay new players when your best ones leave. They should not be used to give to a departing chairman! Sunderland did this you say?? Oh, fantastic! How did it work out for them?? Someone on DATM suggests it then it's automatically the truth? |
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