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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 4, 2019 18:55:36 GMT 1
DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... It was a lack of ability that did for us, not a lack of effort. DWs 'wet nursing' style seemed to work perfectly fine when we got promoted and then stayed up. Im not sure what the evidence is that JS's more hardline approach worked is. Agree on both points. The only game where I felt the opposition clearly out run us was Bournmouth at home. They broke and got back in numbers so fast. This is the sort of shit you read and hear after every England exit from a major tournament. It was nearly always down to a lack of talent and in particular game management; it was almost bugger all to do with effort and passion. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jun 4, 2019 19:06:49 GMT 1
These sound like ideal qualities for a professional football manager? DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. |
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Post by ACW on Jun 4, 2019 19:24:06 GMT 1
DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. And that is the art of management - working out who responds to which approaches. Some players undoubtedly respond to a hard line style, but others will need a more subtle approach. There are times and places for different styles of management. Sometimes a manager needs to let his team know he feels annoyed, let down, and frustrated. He may want a reaction. But that sort of approach will only work when used selectively and at the right times. Managers need to create a collective team spirit to succeed, and the best way to do that is to get everyone on board and going in the same direction. Shouting at them every week won't achieve that, even when the manager might be totally esasperated with the players. |
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Post by mightytj on Jun 4, 2019 19:29:02 GMT 1
DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. So you can say for sure it was Siewert joining rather than Wagner, the guy who recruited most of them and led them for the majority of their time here throwing the towel in and leaving? Rightly or wrongly Wagner deserted a sinking ship, and whilst I’m not judging him for doing so, Its exactly what he did! When the going got tough, he couldn’t take the pressure. I love the guy, and appreciate everything he did for us, but let’s not pretend much of the end of the season was about him leaving, not Jan coming. Siewert was given a mandate by Hoyle, or was at least permitted to call some of the players, their attitude and behaviour out, and I’m guessing that’s exactly what he did, paving the way for some of those overpaid pre Madonna’s to move on. I hope we never see Biling in a town shirt again, the lazy bastard. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Jun 4, 2019 19:35:55 GMT 1
Lets hope some Schmuck Football club Pays us a lot of money to take him away soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2019 20:57:36 GMT 1
Lets hope some Schmuck Football club Pays us a lot of money to take him away soon. they should take you first. bloody hell you do yourself no favours |
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 5, 2019 8:01:27 GMT 1
DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. That team spirit that brought us one point out of 27? that saw us lose nine straight games? Players were already working on their exit strategy before Siewart was appointed, he provided a useful scapegoat for some of them. |
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Post by royrace on Jun 5, 2019 9:00:55 GMT 1
The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. That team spirit that brought us one point out of 27? that saw us lose nine straight games? Players were already working on their exit strategy before Siewart was appointed, he provided a useful scapegoat for some of them. As has been said by others it wasn't team spirit that resulted in us going on the losing run prior to Wagner departing. It was injuries, lack of quality due to awful transfer business and terrible luck. Once the writing was on the wall it was obviously going to be very difficult for any incoming manager to motivate however Fulham managed it as did West Brom the season before. I think Wagner is being used as the scapegoat here by some, not Siewert. |
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 5, 2019 9:14:55 GMT 1
That team spirit that brought us one point out of 27? that saw us lose nine straight games? Players were already working on their exit strategy before Siewart was appointed, he provided a useful scapegoat for some of them. As has been said by others it wasn't team spirit that resulted in us going on the losing run prior to Wagner departing. It was injuries, lack of quality due to awful transfer business and terrible luck. Once the writing was on the wall it was obviously going to be very difficult for any incoming manager to motivate however Fulham managed it as did West Brom the season before. I think Wagner is being used as the scapegoat here by some, not Siewert. The difference being that the managers they replaced weren't particularly liked, or successful, (you can add Southampton to the list). This was Wagner's team, Wagner's players and they'd had amazing succes with him yet he walked away admitting he couldn't motivate them. The team was broken before Siewart came in. What's Wagner the scapegoat for? |
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Post by royrace on Jun 5, 2019 9:51:18 GMT 1
As has been said by others it wasn't team spirit that resulted in us going on the losing run prior to Wagner departing. It was injuries, lack of quality due to awful transfer business and terrible luck. Once the writing was on the wall it was obviously going to be very difficult for any incoming manager to motivate however Fulham managed it as did West Brom the season before. I think Wagner is being used as the scapegoat here by some, not Siewert. The difference being that the managers they replaced weren't particularly liked, or successful, (you can add Southampton to the list). This was Wagner's team, Wagner's players and they'd had amazing succes with him yet he walked away admitting he couldn't motivate them. The team was broken before Siewart came in. What's Wagner the scapegoat for? You sure about that?! Wagner is being made a scapegoat for the fact that since Siewert came in results and performances have been appalling and all the team spirit which was recently so strong seems to have vanished. As far as I'm concerned Siewert was in charge during that decline yet Wagner gets blamed? Therefore Wagner is being made a scapegoat by some. Im not claiming that Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but he has to take some responsibility for the decline in morale and performances imo, you cant just blame it all on Wagner. When Wagner was in charge the team was losing games yes but the performances still showed a level of quality, honest endeavour and organisation. That has been lacking in almost every game since Siewert arrived. So how is that Wagner's fault (other than him leaving)? |
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Post by detox on Jun 5, 2019 9:51:45 GMT 1
DW's wet nursing of players didn't work , so kicking them up the arse to put in more effort seems like a great idea to me...Their fragile little souls need toughening up, and at £10k to £20k a week the least the fans expect is that they come off the pitch absolutely knackered... The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. I think the 'team spirit' had gone long before JS arrived on the scene...We had just gone 9 games collecting just one point, scoring a mere 5 goals when DW decided he'd had enough.... The first thing Hudson did for his one game in charge was drop 4 players from the Cardiff (A) game... I am not suggesting every Town player had a kick up the arse...just those that are now moaning about it , no doubt as their excuse for not performing in the remaining 15 games.. |
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 5, 2019 10:55:53 GMT 1
The difference being that the managers they replaced weren't particularly liked, or successful, (you can add Southampton to the list). This was Wagner's team, Wagner's players and they'd had amazing succes with him yet he walked away admitting he couldn't motivate them. The team was broken before Siewart came in. What's Wagner the scapegoat for? You sure about that?! Wagner is being made a scapegoat for the fact that since Siewert came in results and performances have been appalling and all the team spirit which was recently so strong seems to have vanished. As far as I'm concerned Siewert was in charge during that decline yet Wagner gets blamed? Therefore Wagner is being made a scapegoat by some. Im not claiming that Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but he has to take some responsibility for the decline in morale and performances imo, you cant just blame it all on Wagner. When Wagner was in charge the team was losing games yes but the performances still showed a level of quality, honest endeavour and organisation. That has been lacking in almost every game since Siewert arrived. So how is that Wagner's fault (other than him leaving)? I'm not putting all the blame on Wagner, what I'm against is the idea you're pushing that everything was fine before he left and we've got worse. |
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Post by townrwe on Jun 5, 2019 12:11:13 GMT 1
Siewert has already said he doesnt want a soft as shite changing room, he has already gone about separating the wheat from the chaff... I doubt soft as shite players will be interested in joining us this summer, therefor the collective cajoling under wagner, will be replaced by the mental and physical toughness of a Siewert dressing room.
Which is exactly what we needed in a battle. The softer players are usually the flair, but also the ones whos form disappears when the going gets tough. Tough to say which is more likely to win the championship... Probably wagners way when the going is good, but i reckon a seiwert team would be more likely to stay in the premier league if we were to ever get promoted under him.
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Post by fishfingersandwich on Jun 5, 2019 12:16:39 GMT 1
The difference being that the managers they replaced weren't particularly liked, or successful, (you can add Southampton to the list). This was Wagner's team, Wagner's players and they'd had amazing succes with him yet he walked away admitting he couldn't motivate them. The team was broken before Siewart came in. What's Wagner the scapegoat for? You sure about that?! Wagner is being made a scapegoat for the fact that since Siewert came in results and performances have been appalling and all the team spirit which was recently so strong seems to have vanished. As far as I'm concerned Siewert was in charge during that decline yet Wagner gets blamed? Therefore Wagner is being made a scapegoat by some. Im not claiming that Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but he has to take some responsibility for the decline in morale and performances imo, you cant just blame it all on Wagner. When Wagner was in charge the team was losing games yes but the performances still showed a level of quality, honest endeavour and organisation. That has been lacking in almost every game since Siewert arrived. So how is that Wagner's fault (other than him leaving)? Thanks Dave. Good luck at Schalke. Can you take Zanka and Billing with you for >15Mn? |
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Post by Ox Terrier on Jun 5, 2019 12:17:12 GMT 1
The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. So you can say for sure it was Siewert joining rather than Wagner, the guy who recruited most of them and led them for the majority of their time here throwing the towel in and leaving? Rightly or wrongly Wagner deserted a sinking ship, and whilst I’m not judging him for doing so, Its exactly what he did! When the going got tough, he couldn’t take the pressure. I love the guy, and appreciate everything he did for us, but let’s not pretend much of the end of the season was about him leaving, not Jan coming. Siewert was given a mandate by Hoyle, or was at least permitted to call some of the players, their attitude and behaviour out, and I’m guessing that’s exactly what he did, paving the way for some of those overpaid pre Madonna’s to move on. I hope we never see Biling in a town shirt again, the lazy bastard. I had to check I hadn't written this ^^^^^ myself. Absolutely spot on, every word. |
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Post by royrace on Jun 5, 2019 12:21:26 GMT 1
Siewert has already said he doesnt want a soft as shite changing room, he has already gone about separating the wheat from the chaff... I doubt soft as shite players will be interested in joining us this summer, therefor the collective cajoling under wagner, will be replaced by the mental and physical toughness of a Siewert dressing room. Which is exactly what we needed in a battle. The softer players are usually the flair, but also the ones whos form disappears when the going gets tough. Tough to say which is more likely to win the championship... Probably wagners way when the going is good, but i reckon a seiwert team would be more likely to stay in the premier league if we were to ever get promoted under him. You've never even seen a Siewert team yet you think it would be better equipped to stay in the PL?! Sorry but that's just pure fantasy and wishful thinking. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by royrace on Jun 5, 2019 12:24:50 GMT 1
You sure about that?! Wagner is being made a scapegoat for the fact that since Siewert came in results and performances have been appalling and all the team spirit which was recently so strong seems to have vanished. As far as I'm concerned Siewert was in charge during that decline yet Wagner gets blamed? Therefore Wagner is being made a scapegoat by some. Im not claiming that Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but he has to take some responsibility for the decline in morale and performances imo, you cant just blame it all on Wagner. When Wagner was in charge the team was losing games yes but the performances still showed a level of quality, honest endeavour and organisation. That has been lacking in almost every game since Siewert arrived. So how is that Wagner's fault (other than him leaving)? I'm not putting all the blame on Wagner, what I'm against is the idea you're pushing that everything was fine before he left and we've got worse. Certainly not saying everything was fine but it definitely got worse imo in just about every area on and off the pitch. I'm not saying Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but you can't blame Wagner for his performance since taking over which has been uninspiring and that's being kind. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by CaptainHart on Jun 5, 2019 12:48:47 GMT 1
I'm not putting all the blame on Wagner, what I'm against is the idea you're pushing that everything was fine before he left and we've got worse. Certainly not saying everything was fine but it definitely got worse imo in just about every area on and off the pitch. I'm not saying Siewert had an easy job, far from it, but you can't blame Wagner for his performance since taking over which has been uninspiring and that's being kind. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards You give Wagner a pass because of luck, injuries and the summer transfers. The luck got no better under Siewert, arguably he suffered worse through injuries because the two players he needed to allow him to play the style he wanted both got injured at the same time. As for the summer transfers then Wagner has to carry some of the blame for them. In fact the two players who look like they might redeem something from last summer are Bacuna and Diakaby and it was Siewart who got performances out of them that Wagner couldn't. |
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Post by detox on Jun 5, 2019 13:38:42 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure that after that cardiff game, DW went back into the dressing room and told the players they were all shite, had always been shite and if he had been able to spend more money in the summer at least half of them would be elsewhere by now...he then said ...well i've had enough of you lot, i'm off back to germany and you can carry on arsing around like you have all season..i don't care any more...i've tried to be nice to you, treat you like adults and give you respect, but you've let me down week after week all bloody season...fook off all of you..
Anyone else overhear this ?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2019 13:49:51 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure that after that cardiff game, DW went back into the dressing room and told the players they were all shite, had always been shite and if he had been able to spend more money in the summer at least half of them would be elsewhere by now...he then said ...well i've had enough of you lot, i'm off back to germany and you can carry on arsing around like you have all season..i don't care any more...i've tried to be nice to you, treat you like adults and give you respect, but you've let me down week after week all bloody season...fook off all of you.. Anyone else overhear this ? 
It was actually agreed that Wagner was going on the Thursday before the Cardiff game and he was asked just to oversee this game as one last roll of the dice.
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Post by detox on Jun 5, 2019 13:59:38 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure that after that cardiff game, DW went back into the dressing room and told the players they were all shite, had always been shite and if he had been able to spend more money in the summer at least half of them would be elsewhere by now...he then said ...well i've had enough of you lot, i'm off back to germany and you can carry on arsing around like you have all season..i don't care any more...i've tried to be nice to you, treat you like adults and give you respect, but you've let me down week after week all bloody season...fook off all of you.. Anyone else overhear this ?
It was actually agreed that Wagner was going on the Thursday before the Cardiff game and he was asked just to oversee this game as one last roll of the dice.
spoilsport.... |
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Post by zoso on Jun 5, 2019 14:11:36 GMT 1
The “kicking it up the arse” approach was the reason we totally lost team spirit soon after Siewert joined us. This was obvious to anyone watching how the players reacted to him on the bench. Some may have needed this approach but not everyone. So you can say for sure it was Siewert joining rather than Wagner, the guy who recruited most of them and led them for the majority of their time here throwing the towel in and leaving? Rightly or wrongly Wagner deserted a sinking ship, and whilst I’m not judging him for doing so, Its exactly what he did! When the going got tough, he couldn’t take the pressure. I love the guy, and appreciate everything he did for us, but let’s not pretend much of the end of the season was about him leaving, not Jan coming. Siewert was given a mandate by Hoyle, or was at least permitted to call some of the players, their attitude and behaviour out, and I’m guessing that’s exactly what he did, paving the way for some of those overpaid pre Madonna’s to move on. I hope we never see Biling in a town shirt again, the lazy bastard. You could add arrogant to your last sentence, and I'm with it 100%! |
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Post by terriersyndrome on Jun 5, 2019 14:58:45 GMT 1
Lots of factors played in our disastrous season. Bad recruitment, negative tactics, shite officals, DH being ill, injuries & suspensions at key times, players downing tools & basically openly saying they don't want play for us anymore, Wagner leaving, new manager coming in at a bad time. Infact the only section that no blame can be attached are the fans.. No other fans would have supported their club like we did after getting served up the shite we had to endure week in week out. Perhaps we went too lightly on some of these overpaid, Billy big bollocks players? The players player of the year award shouldn't have gone to Phillip 'I'll play when I fucking like' Billing, it should have been awarded to us, the fans!
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jun 5, 2019 15:23:03 GMT 1
Lots of factors played in our disastrous season. Bad recruitment, negative tactics, shite officals, DH being ill, injuries & suspensions at key times, players downing tools & basically openly saying they don't want play for us anymore, Wagner leaving, new manager coming in at a bad time. Infact the only section that no blame can be attached are the fans.. No other fans would have supported their club like we did after getting served up the shite we had to endure week in week out. Perhaps we went too lightly on some of these overpaid, Billy big bollocks players? The players player of the year award shouldn't have gone to Phillip 'I'll play when I fucking like' Billing, it should have been awarded to us, the fans! Wagner was responsible for last season imo. Everything else was a side issue but ultimately Wagner failed. The club didn't help with it's 'the season starts.....' bullshit (and jokingly from us fans as well). We should have been prepared for the start of the season and the tough start we had and we just literally gave up early doors. Yes we had a difficult start but we were not even a little prepared. The players looked unmotivated. Everything after that was just shite. Losing became the habit and Wagner managed to walk away hands clean while we were pretty much stuffed. Siewert walked into an impossible job. And yes the best thing about last year was the Fans who continue to be bloody amazing. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Jun 5, 2019 15:46:22 GMT 1
I never felt throughout the long losing run of games in December and early January that any of the players weren’t trying. They put in great shifts at Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man U during that time. We looked organised and competitive, created chances and pretty much all the games were competitive affairs.
In the latter part of the season, we became disjointed, players stopped caring and positional discipline went to pot - you only need to look at the Opta analysis to see this. Yet some seem to blame DW. Absolutely crazy.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jun 5, 2019 15:47:56 GMT 1
I never felt throughout the long losing run of games in December and early January that any of the players weren’t trying. They put in great shifts at Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man U during that time. We looked organised and competitive, created chances and pretty much all the games were competitive affairs. In the latter part of the season, we became disjointed, players stopped caring and positional discipline went to pot - you only need to look at the Opta analysis to see this. Yet some seem to blame DW. Absolutely crazy. Laurent Depoitre was doing a good impression of someone not trying in my opinion |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on Jun 5, 2019 15:54:34 GMT 1
I never felt throughout the long losing run of games in December and early January that any of the players weren’t trying. They put in great shifts at Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man U during that time. We looked organised and competitive, created chances and pretty much all the games were competitive affairs. In the latter part of the season, we became disjointed, players stopped caring and positional discipline went to pot - you only need to look at the Opta analysis to see this. Yet some seem to blame DW. Absolutely crazy. I see that as being coincidental with the squad resigning themselves to relegation in the wake of Wagner quitting rather than anything Jan did. Granted we were competitive in those three games you mentioned but for every one of those there was Fulham away, Newcastle home, Southampton home, and Cardiff away. All under Wagner, all dreadful performances which Siewert would've rightly got pelters for. Fwiw I think Newcastle away under Siewert probably ties with the Fulham game in terms of how bad we were. |
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Jun 5, 2019 15:56:34 GMT 1
I never felt throughout the long losing run of games in December and early January that any of the players weren’t trying. They put in great shifts at Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man U during that time. We looked organised and competitive, created chances and pretty much all the games were competitive affairs. In the latter part of the season, we became disjointed, players stopped caring and positional discipline went to pot - you only need to look at the Opta analysis to see this. Yet some seem to blame DW. Absolutely crazy.The buck stops with the manager. At any other club he'd have been sacked well before he left. |
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Post by townrwe on Jun 5, 2019 16:33:45 GMT 1
Siewert has already said he doesnt want a soft as shite changing room, he has already gone about separating the wheat from the chaff... I doubt soft as shite players will be interested in joining us this summer, therefor the collective cajoling under wagner, will be replaced by the mental and physical toughness of a Siewert dressing room. Which is exactly what we needed in a battle. The softer players are usually the flair, but also the ones whos form disappears when the going gets tough. Tough to say which is more likely to win the championship... Probably wagners way when the going is good, but i reckon a seiwert team would be more likely to stay in the premier league if we were to ever get promoted under him. You've never even seen a Siewert team yet you think it would be better equipped to stay in the PL?! Sorry but that's just pure fantasy and wishful thinking. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards I'm saying that Wagner was good when it was going well... keeping us a run, but terrible at turning it around. We had a long run of games without a win (10 ish) in our promotion season. Seiwert seems to want stronger characters. Willing to keep going even when in the trenches. Bacuna is a shining example of what to expect this year if recruitment goes well. Someone who gives it their all even if they make the odd mistake. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Jun 5, 2019 20:35:23 GMT 1
I never felt throughout the long losing run of games in December and early January that any of the players weren’t trying. They put in great shifts at Bournemouth, Arsenal and Man U during that time. We looked organised and competitive, created chances and pretty much all the games were competitive affairs. In the latter part of the season, we became disjointed, players stopped caring and positional discipline went to pot - you only need to look at the Opta analysis to see this. Yet some seem to blame DW. Absolutely crazy.The buck stops with the manager. At any other club he'd have been sacked well before he left. The buck stops with the players- or at least it should. |
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