deadleg
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,897
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Post by deadleg on May 28, 2019 12:06:38 GMT 1
Whilst not seeking to defend Billing's attitude, the body language of several players was telling in Siewert's early days Even the dependable Mooy looked like he couldn't give a fuck in some games, most notably the Newcastle away game. Schindler was quoted as saying "all he does is shout at us". Maybe Siewert's approach shocked a few people and some handled it better than others. Let's hope that both sides have learned a few things and that team spirit that was missing will return at the start of the new season. Yeah, as much as Billing is a bit of a cock for downing tools (though based on the translation it doesn't seem clear whether he means this season - perhaps it was before he joined us?) and speaking publicly about his manager and wanting to leave, it does seem like there's some degree of fault on both sides. You didn't need to be in the changing room to see that Siewert had a tendency to give himself all the credit but none of the blame, everyone on here could see that very quickly. Nothing wrong with being a bit of a hard taskmaster but without some sort of balance to it you're doomed to failure I'm afraid. Even managers like Ferguson and Clough could be pussycats with their own players when needed. When rumours start to circulate about model pros like Schindler and Mooy being unhappy it's hard not to be concerned. As you say, hopefully some lessons have been learned all round and we can get on with making a fresh start. I've got to admit that I don't have a great feeling about it though - as soon as Wagner was announced it felt 'right' to me but I've felt the opposite this time around. Very much hope I'm proved wrong. |
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Post by artysid on May 28, 2019 12:06:38 GMT 1
maybe the players needed a rocket up their arses. Let's face it they hardly looked to give a fook when struggling under Wagner. Do you really think they needed a rocket up their arse and didn't give a fuck under Wagner, really? I don't, I think since Jan has come in most of them started playing like they didn't give a fuck and needed a rocket up their arse but not before, most of them anyway. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards If some players didn't give a f^ck under Jan that would explain some of the crap performances from some players under him, but if as you say they did give a f*ck under Wagner, we need to look for another reason for their crap performances towards the end of his tenure. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 28, 2019 12:07:03 GMT 1
What I find astonishing is the arrogance of a lad who has considerable talent but who hadn't played 15 good games in his entire career yet. Flashes - yes, but when do we see the so called real deal. The lad who puts a run of 7 or 8 games together where he's a 7/8 out of 10. That's the difference for me when comparisons are made with the likes of schindler, mooy who have done that. Clearly wants away - get the best fee possible and move on. Thanks for not much Phil really - shame, but that's the game now. His comments about Siewert coming in acting like he'd won the league 5 times is quite ironic because after January Billing was strutting around like he'd won the league 5 times. |
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Post by VLP Fan Club on May 28, 2019 12:09:34 GMT 1
Anyway, pre-season will be a laugh if he's not been shipped off by then
"Jan but I've already done the bleep test 8 times, why am I the only one doing it?!"
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Post by Mounié Talks on May 28, 2019 12:09:34 GMT 1
So a new manager with limited credentials comes into a dressing room low on confidence, first thing he does rather then empathise or look to build up players confidence is to publicly blame the players! Because that is a good way to support your staff and convince them buy into your methods! If you cant trust a manager to have your back how are you expecting the players to go out and perform if any mistake is not just going to be scrutinised globally but your manager is going to rinse you in the press! But yeah lets blame a 22 year old for being unhappy with the lack of support from his manager.
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Post by ritchie on May 28, 2019 12:11:23 GMT 1
Whilst not seeking to defend Billing's attitude, the body language of several players was telling in Siewert's early days Even the dependable Mooy looked like he couldn't give a fuck in some games, most notably the Newcastle away game. Schindler was quoted as saying "all he does is shout at us". Maybe Siewert's approach shocked a few people and some handled it better than others. Let's hope that both sides have learned a few things and that team spirit that was missing will return at the start of the new season. fair post i agree. true siewart wasnt well liked and its probably a bit of blame on both sides. on the one hand he was too shouty but a few players needed a rocket and probably a bit of a change from wagners approach. think he will have been looking for a bit of a reaction but maybe expected them to be a bit more thick skinned than todays PL players are im glad it happened now rather than next season. hopefully now siewart has the bigger players (Like hogg) onside who can manage the dressing room for him...i expect a more relaxed siewart next season with more of a bond with the team |
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Post by shawsie on May 28, 2019 12:20:03 GMT 1
So a new manager with limited credentials comes into a dressing room low on confidence, first thing he does rather then empathise or look to build up players confidence is to publicly blame the players! Because that is a good way to support your staff and convince them buy into your methods! If you cant trust a manager to have your back how are you expecting the players to go out and perform if any mistake is not just going to be scrutinised globally but your manager is going to rinse you in the press! But yeah lets blame a 22 year old for being unhappy with the lack of support from his manager. With respect, that's crap. Nobody would point a finger at billing if he tried but wasn't good enough like kachunga or Smith. The lad simply gave up - unforgivable when you need your best players to stand up and be counted!!! Seiwert undoubtedly made mistakes, but hes the manager and needed to try something different - billing had 6 or 8 decent games and acted like he was bloody pirlo! At least some of the others have a cv of sorts to fall back on.....billings is littered with bad attitude, glass ankles and unfulfilled promise thus far! |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 12:22:38 GMT 1
It's how you separate the wheat from the chaff, Jan has been weeding outthe softies for what is going to be a slog next season, and he's completely right to do so.
Billing has shown what a soft touch he is. No coincidence the that battlers like Bacuna, Hogg, Kachunga and Grant have stepped up to the plate. They're the kind of players we will need next season, not Billing or Flo etc.
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Post by mikececere on May 28, 2019 12:23:38 GMT 1
Talking of shouting at players , Hogg has done just that since Wagner left the only time hes not shouting and telling people what to do is when he is needlessly giving the ball away. I have no problem with the new coach and giving schindler the captains armband is something i agree with. These players who think they are on their way should keep their mouth shut.
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Post by Torquayterrier on May 28, 2019 12:27:29 GMT 1
I think it was pretty clear to any regular matchgoer that he'd downed tools over something, the performances went down very quickly. My first thought was that he'd had his head turned by another club who had perhaps made some 'unofficial' enquiries about him for next season. However could just as easy have been he didn't get on with Siewert as suggested in the interview, there were rumours that a few werent warming to him in the dressing room not long after he came in. If we get a decent fee for him I'm not that bothered about him moving on. In the Championship you want players that will run through brick walls for you.
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Post by jimmythebulldog on May 28, 2019 12:30:31 GMT 1
Billing is a first rate tool for this interview and he's doing his chances of a good move a real disservice.
Any manager reading that would have serious concerns about his attitude.
But neither does it reflect well on Siewart.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on May 28, 2019 12:31:30 GMT 1
maybe the players needed a rocket up their arses. Let's face it they hardly looked to give a fook when struggling under Wagner. Do you really think they needed a rocket up their arse and didn't give a fuck under Wagner, really? I don't, I think since Jan has come in most of them started playing like they didn't give a fuck and needed a rocket up their arse but not before, most of them anyway. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards actually, yes. I think that a number of things (including the lack of transfer activity and Wagner wanting out) contributed to this. The attitude in some games under Wanger was terrible. Jan just pissed em all off by giving them a bollocking. In any job if you are shit at it you would get one, so why not the players? |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on May 28, 2019 12:34:53 GMT 1
The players just wanted a cuddle from the manager & told it would all be ok after continuous shite performances.. Fuck off!! Seems to me that this is the way society works these days. Mollycoddling. Nonsense. Being a good football manager is as much about being socially competent, and managing the state of mind of the players as it is about the tactical side. If a player needs coddling to perform at the top level then it's probably better to coddle him than be cold and unsympathetic about it. It's the absolute basics of management. English football fetishises hard-nosed, uncomprimising managers when more often than not, they alienate, punish, and ultimately fail. Hopefully the squad overhaul this summer can give Siewert a chance to show a different side to him and build team spirit. |
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Post by space hardware on May 28, 2019 12:35:49 GMT 1
Billing is a first rate tool for this interview and he's doing his chances of a good move a real disservice. Any manager reading that would have serious concerns about his attitude. But neither does it reflect well on Siewart. I think we all knew the Billing was a bit of a pea heart and had effectively downed tools as soon as it became inevitable that we were going down. Hopefully we can get a decent wedge for him and fuck him off. The stuff about Siewert alarms me more though. |
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Post by turbo2 on May 28, 2019 12:36:12 GMT 1
I was at a do a couple of weeks ago and a random lad told me the exact same story All players hate JS as he’s very arrogant and many are telling their agents to get them a move
Aye, to a Premier league team on the same or improved salary - dream on!! Tell that to Jonas 52k a week to sit in the stiffs. Football has gone mad. We are a million light years away from about 60% of the PL |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 28, 2019 12:39:53 GMT 1
Not sure I was "astonished" by this... looked pretty apparent early doors most if the squad weren't enthused by him
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on May 28, 2019 12:43:05 GMT 1
Not sure I was "astonished" by this... looked pretty apparent early doors most if the squad weren't enthused by him More so was the aspect of him being so up front about it all. I can't think of another time where a footballer has admitted to just giving up, while criticising the manager being too abrasive towards players in the same breath. I'm not surprised Siewert shouted at everyone so much if this is the attitude he was dealing with |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 28, 2019 12:43:46 GMT 1
Whilst not seeking to defend Billing's attitude, the body language of several players was telling in Siewert's early days Even the dependable Mooy looked like he couldn't give a fuck in some games, most notably the Newcastle away game. Schindler was quoted as saying "all he does is shout at us". Maybe Siewert's approach shocked a few people and some handled it better than others. Let's hope that both sides have learned a few things and that team spirit that was missing will return at the start of the new season. Obvious from almost day 1 that Mooy wasnt buying into it.. we can all lambast Billing.. it's easy as him and some colleagues appeared to have bad attitude. But the fact is that most important job of a premier league manager is to keep highly paid players onside... he totally didn't do that and threw them under the bus... and it didn't work |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 28, 2019 12:45:10 GMT 1
Not sure I was "astonished" by this... looked pretty apparent early doors most if the squad weren't enthused by him More so was the aspect of him being so up front about it all. I can't think of another time where a footballer has admitted to just giving up, while criticising the manager being too abrasive towards players in the same breath. I'm not surprised Siewert shouted at everyone so much if this is the attitude he was dealing with But its his job to get the best out of them .. Billing is obviously a player with great talent.. we needed him .. I'm not excusing Billing. But real world is that we needed a better man manager |
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Post by Bojaj Horseman on May 28, 2019 12:50:07 GMT 1
More so was the aspect of him being so up front about it all. I can't think of another time where a footballer has admitted to just giving up, while criticising the manager being too abrasive towards players in the same breath. I'm not surprised Siewert shouted at everyone so much if this is the attitude he was dealing with But its his job to get the beat out of them .. Billing is obviously a player with great talent.. we needed him .. I'm not excusing Billing. But real world is that we needed a better man manager Agreed, see my reply to MT earlier. Can't look past how shit a hand JS was dealt though, and although it's not the right way to go about football management, I feel sympathy to him and understand why he lost his rag so much with the players. |
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Post by royrace on May 28, 2019 12:53:10 GMT 1
Not sure I was "astonished" by this... looked pretty apparent early doors most if the squad weren't enthused by him It was/is crystal clear as you say although some chose to ignore it for some reason including it seems the board. The only surprise is that billing has come out and said it. Clearly a ploy to drive down the fee further and make more cash for him and his agent. So regardless of the rights and wrongs of each individual the club will now lose a valuable player for a fraction of the true value. Just another side effect of being unable to keep players happy. Is CL heading back one year earlier than planned another? I've no idea but I do know that football managers who alienate a large proportion of their players are never successful. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on May 28, 2019 12:57:43 GMT 1
But its his job to get the beat out of them .. Billing is obviously a player with great talent.. we needed him .. I'm not excusing Billing. But real world is that we needed a better man manager Agreed, see my reply to MT earlier. Can't look past how shit a hand JS was dealt though, and although it's not the right way to go about football management, I feel sympathy to him and understand why he lost his rag so much with the players. It was obviously a difficult job. Maybe one where more experience might have been helpful. But it's probably early days for Siewert and he might turn out a shrewd acquisition ( sits on fence ) |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on May 28, 2019 13:05:32 GMT 1
The club gave Billing an opportunity to prove himself at the highest level ,and to slag Jan off in public is surely totally unprofessional
He is very much a player who not only thinks he is better than he is ,but also seems to think he is bigger than the club similar to other shite that the club need to get rid of.
It would not surprise me if Billing is one of the players who Dean Hoyle earlier mentioned that he was not happy with , and here are perfect examples of the reasons why
Lets hope the club gets big bucks from a mug club ,and spend it on a player/s that will help provide a team that can compete at a top six championship level.
Feel very angry about the attitute of Billing ,and really hope this lazy c--t fails at his next club thus also proving to be one massive waste of money
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Post by royrace on May 28, 2019 13:08:20 GMT 1
Agreed, see my reply to MT earlier. Can't look past how shit a hand JS was dealt though, and although it's not the right way to go about football management, I feel sympathy to him and understand why he lost his rag so much with the players. It was obviously a difficult job. Maybe one where more experience might have been helpful. But it's probably early days for Siewert and he might turn out a shrewd acquisition ( sits on fence ) He may indeed learn and turn out to be successful but I'd rather he wasn't learning on the job with town during such a vital period. Maybe he's a very quick learner and will be able to turn it round in a few months and build the superb team spirit needed to compete in the Championship. Seems unlikely though. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 13:14:00 GMT 1
Not sure I was "astonished" by this... looked pretty apparent early doors most if the squad weren't enthused by him More so was the aspect of him being so up front about it all. I can't think of another time where a footballer has admitted to just giving up, while criticising the manager being too abrasive towards players in the same breath. I'm not surprised Siewert shouted at everyone so much if this is the attitude he was dealing with iwill just say this about billing despite some on here he is a very good footballer but as david wagner told him its not what can I do for you its what can you do for me. its a flaw in the lads makeup as for siwart perhaps his man management will improve but don't make him the scapegoat in this. some needed home truths and they got it. we move on |
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Post by Mav on May 28, 2019 13:14:23 GMT 1
I think PB is a decent footballer.
I also think he’s an arrogant tool who’s forgotten who got him to where he is now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 13:22:36 GMT 1
JS came in when we were bottom of the league having taking about a point from 13 matches. I’m glad he banged some heads together, told them they were playing shite and upset a few.
Also, Billing has been with us since he was 15. How many ‘agentS’ does he have or need?
You wonder how they coped when they were first dumped on that desert island when Wagner came in. I guess they were a hardy Championship team then though, not a mollycoddled, spoilt bunch of greedy league players. They’ll get respect back when they stop being garbage.
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,344
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Post by wigster on May 28, 2019 13:23:49 GMT 1
So a new manager with limited credentials comes into a dressing room low on confidence, first thing he does rather then empathise or look to build up players confidence is to publicly blame the players! Because that is a good way to support your staff and convince them buy into your methods! If you cant trust a manager to have your back how are you expecting the players to go out and perform if any mistake is not just going to be scrutinised globally but your manager is going to rinse you in the press! But yeah lets blame a 22 year old for being unhappy with the lack of support from his manager. I would certainly not defend Billing - he seems to have an arrogance way beyond what he has earned at Town - but certainly a lot of us on DATM noted in his early days that when things went right (once I think...) it was due to Jan Siewert and when they went wrong it was all down to the players. Certainly I know the source of the alleged Schindler quote "all he does is shout at us" and have no reason to disbelieve it. I said at the time that I'd be surprised if Schindler doesn't move on but hope I'm wrong. |
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Post by townrwe on May 28, 2019 13:25:13 GMT 1
Reminder that this guy got players player of the season. What does that tell you about our dressing room? I'd say that those that hated seiwert clubbed together their vote and gave all their votes to Billing. So I'd say it makes them pretty pathetic and terrible team mates. It would have been the lazy disgraces. Lossl, hadj, Zanka, Billing, Depoitre, sabiri and maybe they influenced a couple more on the periphery.... The fact Seiwert took no shit of someone that has done fuck all so far wins favour in my book. I'm pretty sure that he will be reasonably well liked by most of the team that remains after this window.... didn't Guardiola go into man city and piss off alot of the "superstars" ok seiwert doesn't have the same CV, but if he has the same attributes then maybe one day he will have. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on May 28, 2019 13:25:22 GMT 1
Very unhelpful comments. Needs to remember who his employers are.
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