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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on May 28, 2019 19:45:39 GMT 1
It’s fairly clear to see that Jan’s man management skills leave a lot to be desired.
He took over a limited squad of players who had been giving their all for a manager they loved. When they didn’t get any better he has given them bollocking after bollocking.
I’m not sure what he really expected from them. You have to earn the respect of your players and it sounds like he has not done so to the detriment of team spirit.
It probably isn’t a bad thing if there is a big changeover of players as it may give a chance to built a team spirit.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 28, 2019 19:48:58 GMT 1
Think its systematic of the modern day young player in a lot of cases.
Gone are the days of starting out as an apprentice, cleaning senior players boots, sweeping the stands and receiving regular bollockings from coaches at all levels if you step out of line.
Todays young players have never had any of that. Treated like stars from a young age, mollycoddled and pampered. The best of everything and everything done for them.
Stories of 'bullying' hits the headlines... which is probably when a young player gets straight onto his agent because a coach shouted at them in an angry voice or called them a name.
Todays young players don;t get that at school and don;t get it when they join a club. Can imagine they are extremely thin-skinned.
Shame Billings done this. Very unprofessional and doesn;t reflect well on him to any future employers.
Also makes his position at Town untenable, which could well effect any fee we can expect for him.
But as much as we don;t like to hear it, it doesn;t mean what hes saying doesn;t have some truth in it either. And that doesn;t reflect well on Siewert.
Not least when his teammates vote Billing as their player of the season, which suggest many might fully sympathise with how he feels.
Team unity was a MASSIVE factor in wagners achievement of promotion. There was a genuine togetherness in the camp.. players,, manager, coaches, fans. It was a huge reason why that side managed to go up.
Got to say, the signs from the outside look like Siewart has a massive amount of work to do to replicate that. Doesn;t seem a happy, unified camp at all, quite the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 19:49:42 GMT 1
Think Wagner was always their friend and didn’t throw out too many home truths, plus I think the modern day footballer is probably a tad sensitive to a roasting! Fergie gave out some roastings and he didn't do too badly.  Exactly, and Warnock. Fergie also took over at and went through a rough time with the players there cos of the drinking culture, he had to get his own players in who were dedicated. *by no means am I likening Siewert to Fergie btw! |
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Post by Ginger Ogre on May 28, 2019 19:50:00 GMT 1
Some of the players should look at the video of Warnock giving it to a Town team some years ago and they would be shocked and should feel that they got off lightly. With respect, football has moved on light years since then. Shouting and balling at folk doesn't always work like it used to. A good manager (in any walk of life) should be able to approach different people in different ways. Some need an arm, some need positive feedback, some need a bollocking. Seems like Jan has gone in with a one size fits all attitude and it has backfired. Billing is clearly going to leave, and he has been very clever in getting the first dig in here. My worry is, any potential signing could now be having second thoughts on joining after this. Would you want to work for someone who just shouts and balls at you all the time?! Hopefully the improvement in attitude towards the end of the season is a sign things are moving in the right direction. |
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Post by kennyk2 on May 28, 2019 19:56:32 GMT 1
This might have been covered earlier, but when Dean Hoyle said in his last public meeting, that the behaviour of some of the players has been disgraceful, could he have been meaning Billing?
If so, and with PH coming out saying that JS's appointment was run past him and that the manager has his total support for next season, could this be one of the "disgraceful" players behaving... well... disgracefully.
Funny how this thread is a proxy for another Siewert thread!
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Post by dumbo on May 28, 2019 20:01:17 GMT 1
Arm round the shoulder or bollocking it doesn't matter when you lose 12 out of 15.
Any company in the shit, cancelling bonuses, making redundancies, good people planning on leaving etc.. will have a pretty toxic atmosphere.
The job was a poisoned chalice. Problem is that it's very hard to turn around, even when the initial cause has gone. Need a major change of staff or a new manager. Maybe both unfortunately.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 28, 2019 20:06:27 GMT 1
This might have been covered earlier, but when Dean Hoyle said in his last public meeting, that the behaviour of some of the players has been disgraceful, could he have been meaning Billing? If so, and with PH coming out saying that JS's appointment was run past him and that the manager has his total support for next season, could this be one of the "disgraceful" players behaving... well... disgracefully. Funny how this thread is a proxy for another Siewert thread! Id be very surprised if he wasn't. If the club see Siewart as the manager going forward, and they do , then they have to side with their man and rightly so. |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 20:14:43 GMT 1
This may be a combination of a significant change in management style from DW to JS, which would have been a shock, and someone who has been very hit and miss all season, and before, being told so. Interestingly the newer players, Bacuna, Grant and Mbenza did not seem to suffer from this harsh new regime. I would not take much stock from Billing throwing his toys out. I do hope JS does not piss some of our dependables off though, see what next season brings.
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Post by yappledapple on May 28, 2019 20:30:28 GMT 1
Some of the players should look at the video of Warnock giving it to a Town team some years ago and they would be shocked and should feel that they got off lightly. . A good manager (in any walk of life) should be able to approach different people in different ways. Some need an arm, some need positive feedback, some need a bollocking. Seems like Jan has gone in with a one size fits all attitude and it has backfired. Billing is clearly going to leave, and he has been very clever in getting the first dig in here. My worry is, any potential signing could now be having second thoughts on joining after this. Would you want to work for someone who just shouts and balls at you all the time?! Hopefully the improvement in attitude towards the end of the season is a sign things are moving in the right direction. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on May 28, 2019 20:39:19 GMT 1
What money will we get for him ? Few million ?
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Post by turbo2 on May 28, 2019 20:52:53 GMT 1
Think its systematic of the modern day young player in a lot of cases. Gone are the days of starting out as an apprentice, cleaning senior players boots, sweeping the stands and receiving regular bollockings from coaches at all levels if you step out of line. Todays young players have never had any of that. Treated like stars from a young age, mollycoddled and pampered. The best of everything and everything done for them. Stories of 'bullying' hits the headlines... which is probably when a young player gets straight onto his agent because a coach shouted at them in an angry voice or called them a name. Todays young players don;t get that at school and don;t get it when they join a club. Can imagine they are extremely thin-skinned. Shame Billings done this. Very unprofessional and doesn;t reflect well on him to any future employers. Also makes his position at Town untenable, which could well effect any fee we can expect for him. But as much as we don;t like to hear it, it doesn;t mean what hes saying doesn;t have some truth in it either. And that doesn;t reflect well on Siewert. Not least when his teammates vote Billing as their player of the season, which suggest many might fully sympathise with how he feels. Team unity was a MASSIVE factor in wagners achievement of promotion. There was a genuine togetherness in the camp.. players,, manager, coaches, fans. It was a huge reason why that side managed to go up. Got to say, the signs from the outside look like Siewart has a massive amount of work to do to replicate that. Doesn;t seem a happy, unified camp at all, quite the opposite. The Wagner maths was greater than the sum It’s not difficult to understand We may never get that back Doesn’t happen very often. Not sure we’ll get it back anytime soon |
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someguy
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Post by someguy on May 28, 2019 21:03:09 GMT 1
Dock his wages. When does his contract run out? Let him train by himself away from the squads and let him rot there until it runs out.
The hypocrisy of saying the manager is essential a massive ego is ridiculous. Billing used to score a screamer a season and that was it. The last one was an absolute mare by the keeper and he did a lot of shit long throws. Who has convinced him he's such a talent? He's tall and young and fairly composed so that is pretty much his entire value. The number of runs where he just ran into traffic when the opposition players didn't bow down to him was ridiculous.
Not fussed if Stewart pissed off some of the players, they hardly put a shift in every match for wagner. It's their fault he left in the first place.
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 28, 2019 21:05:18 GMT 1
It's amusing that people think the players downed tools after Siewert came in & started shouting at them when in the 10 games before he arrived the team had lost 9 & drawn 1, scoring 4 goals. Six of those teams finished in the bottom 8.
Siewert was on a hiding to nothing trying to sort out some of these wasters so quite rightly dropped them. He did the right thing looking at the bigger picture & taking a look at the squad & youth players to give him a good idea of what he needed for the championship.
We'll have a better idea of what Siewert is about next season when he gets the chance to build his own team.
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Post by ACW on May 28, 2019 21:32:24 GMT 1
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, Billing needs to go. He's burnt his bridges - that's if he hadn't already done so.
He's a decent player with potential who rightly received a lot of praise for his early season performances. That said, he failed to maintain his form and appears to believe he's made it before he's actually done so. One decent half season doesn't make a player. He still has a lot to prove.
I have reservations about Siewert's man-management, but does anyone think Billing would have stayed if Jan had taken a softer, more supportive approach? Billing obviously feels he's better than Town, and I suspect he'd decided to go before Siewert arrived. Town were well on the road to relegation by that stage.
I'm sure there is fault on both sides, but I reckon Billing was looking to move as soon as relegation started to look likely, rather than a possibility. The relationship has now totally broken down and the quicker we part ways the better. Hopefully we'll get a decent fee and can move on.
I think a committed Billing would have been a good player in the Championship, but having seen Bacuna's late season performances I'd prefer him to Billing. I know he's a different type of midfielder, but he (Bacuna) affects games and has far more drive about him. He can also pick a pass and open up a defence. If Bacuna continues to develop as he has been doing, Billing will be quickly forgotten.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on May 28, 2019 21:35:32 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 21:44:58 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really. You mean the quotes this entire thread relates to?....No not seen them. |
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 28, 2019 21:54:30 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really. ⬆️Is this lad on drugs or on the wind up?⬆️ |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 28, 2019 21:59:59 GMT 1
It’s fairly clear to see that Jan’s man management skills leave a lot to be desired. He took over a limited squad of players who had been giving their all for a manager they loved. When they didn’t get any better he has given them bollocking after bollocking. I’m not sure what he really expected from them. You have to earn the respect of your players and it sounds like he has not done so to the detriment of team spirit. It probably isn’t a bad thing if there is a big changeover of players as it may give a chance to built a team spirit. they had stopped 'giving their all for the manager they loved' sometime before he walked... it wasn't that the did not get better, it was that the work rate dropped even more.. If premier league status alone cannot get some real graft from a team then whoever is in charge is deep in the shit.. Shouting is borne from frustration that the people you are working with are not putting in the effort required.. That we would still have gone down is probably not arguable but they allowed themselves to be mocked by the footballing world and the missing personal pride is too hard to retrieve by shouting or cuddling in equal measures.. They had wrapped their hand in.. |
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zoso
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Post by zoso on May 28, 2019 22:06:05 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really. ⬆️Is this lad on drugs or on the wind up?⬆️ Probably neither, unfortunately.  |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on May 28, 2019 22:14:59 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really. ⬆️Is this lad on drugs or on the wind up?⬆️ I usually dont read start of long threads, thats why had no idea. |
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Post by brodie81 on May 28, 2019 22:37:31 GMT 1
⬆️Is this lad on drugs or on the wind up?⬆️ I usually dont read start of long threads, thats why had no idea. What about the title? |
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 22:48:40 GMT 1
Anyone seen what he told the danish news about siwert, bit odd really. ⬆️Is this lad on drugs or on the wind up?⬆️ Possibly both  |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on May 28, 2019 22:50:22 GMT 1
Hoddle nails it 6 minutes in...."talent is nothing without the right attitude".
Hoddle....better than Gazza.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 28, 2019 22:57:19 GMT 1
I hope he's gone before pre season training starts, for his own sake. Siewart is going to two foot him off the ball if not
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 23:06:20 GMT 1
I hope he's gone before pre season training starts, for his own sake. Siewart is going to two foot him off the ball if not Nick or Billing?? |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 28, 2019 23:26:17 GMT 1
Dock his wages. When does his contract run out? Let him train by himself away from the squads and let him rot there until it runs out. The hypocrisy of saying the manager is essential a massive ego is ridiculous. Billing used to score a screamer a season and that was it. The last one was an absolute mare by the keeper and he did a lot of shit long throws. Who has convinced him he's such a talent? He's tall and young and fairly composed so that is pretty much his entire value. The number of runs where he just ran into traffic when the opposition players didn't bow down to him was ridiculous.Not fussed if Stewart pissed off some of the players, they hardly put a shift in every match for wagner. It's their fault he left in the first place. Might not like this interview or his attitude since wagner left, but don';t agree with that at all. He is a far better player than you suggest. Our best player up to xmas. One of the few we had with genuine top flight quality. Don;t think it was the players fault wagner left anyway, but if youre trying to blame them for not putting in a shift, then Billing, top of distance covered and making more far more tackles and clearances than both his midfield partners in Mooy and Hogg per minute of gametime, isn't the player to blame. |
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someguy
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Post by someguy on May 28, 2019 23:32:15 GMT 1
Dock his wages. When does his contract run out? Let him train by himself away from the squads and let him rot there until it runs out. The hypocrisy of saying the manager is essential a massive ego is ridiculous. Billing used to score a screamer a season and that was it. The last one was an absolute mare by the keeper and he did a lot of shit long throws. Who has convinced him he's such a talent? He's tall and young and fairly composed so that is pretty much his entire value. The number of runs where he just ran into traffic when the opposition players didn't bow down to him was ridiculous.Not fussed if Stewart pissed off some of the players, they hardly put a shift in every match for wagner. It's their fault he left in the first place. Might not like this interview or his attitude since wagner left, but don';t agree with that at all. He is a far better player than you suggest. Our best player up to xmas. One of the few we had with genuine top flight quality. Don;t think it was the players fault wagner left anyway, but if youre trying to blame them for not putting in a shift, then Billing, top of distance covered and making more far more tackles and clearances than both his midfield partners in Mooy and Hogg per minute of gametime, isn't the player to blame. I would argue the stats don't show the actual performances. He had a few games where he looked a good player I'll give you that. A lot of his distance was his usual jog back but not actually helping and also going to take every single throw in on each side of the pitch. |
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Post by sapphireblue on May 28, 2019 23:47:02 GMT 1
It seems that a few posters on this thread think that young players should be treated worse than they are.
Let's follow the Southampton /Peterborough model, that'll learn 'em.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on May 28, 2019 23:58:48 GMT 1
If I recall rightly, Winkler is supposedly very personable, so hopefully will be a huge help in addressing this apparent gap in Siewert's qualities. As others have said, not excusing Billing. The attitude of the players looked a lot better after he had come in. |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 29, 2019 0:11:45 GMT 1
Might not like this interview or his attitude since wagner left, but don';t agree with that at all. He is a far better player than you suggest. Our best player up to xmas. One of the few we had with genuine top flight quality. Don;t think it was the players fault wagner left anyway, but if youre trying to blame them for not putting in a shift, then Billing, top of distance covered and making more far more tackles and clearances than both his midfield partners in Mooy and Hogg per minute of gametime, isn't the player to blame. I would argue the stats don't show the actual performances. He had a few games where he looked a good player I'll give you that. A lot of his distance was his usual jog back but not actually helping and also going to take every single throw in on each side of the pitch. Oh cmon. Thats like saying Mooys distance is massively inflated because he had to go over and take the corners. I think the perception of Billing is hugely clouded by his languid style. If he covered the same ground but had a more frantic running motion, I don;t think hed get half the stick he gets. You say he just jogs back without helping, but that doesn;t really explain how he managed to make more tackles and more clearances than both the other two, neither of whome are questioned over their effort. |
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