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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 22:05:43 GMT 1
PH decision to get rid or not but serious questions do need asking re marsh we’ve had three shocking transfer windows of which he’s been heavily involved in! Agree i Don`t think the fans Respect anybody at the club @ the moment .Have you noticed all the Empty seats ! Fans with Tickets/cards are just not Coming ! who can blame them if we had not signed Campbell we would have had only 2 Strikers on the books ! that comes with playing one up front ! Massive played as a team & won because they had a Decent Winger (and we had Flo ) and a couple of Decent Strikers ! We had our leading Scorer Taking ( trying to ) Corners & nobody to could cross a decent ball into the box Wonder why We let Mooy go Before we had a Replacement ! Yet that was the reason other clubs ( well run ) would not let players leave ! before they had replaced them We sold 16000, not the 18,000 we have been led to believe so those 2000 seats will not be filled at any point barring a miracle. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Sept 16, 2019 22:06:58 GMT 1
People keep siding with Marsh by saying that Wagner had final say and it's true but we don't know what other players were on the list for Wagner to decide between It'd be interesting to know and I'm assuming some of them have gone on to do decent and that's why Marsh is still in a job. Or Wagner could have said, in that case keep the money until someone better is available? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Sept 16, 2019 22:11:52 GMT 1
You have no idea what the arrangement is, how it's being paid for or who owns what. Until somebody makes a statement to the contrary we know Dean owns Canalside (phil told us last week) and we know the Prem money is paying for the £21M because Dean told us when it was based on us getting a 2nd year in the premier league. So maybe you don't want to know so you throw misleading statements like yours around. Did the same thing from Memory defending Jan last season, demanding more time. How's that decision worked out for the club? As I understand it. The facilities are to benefit the club, therefore the club had paid for it. But, The land is owned by Dean. This was originally so a future owner could not mortgage the club against the facility or sell it off to recover debts. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Sept 16, 2019 22:14:23 GMT 1
Nope, fair to criticise. I don't mind it, I have done it; I have been vocally critical of the Cowley appointment and negative with respect to how I surmised Sunday's tactics and performances. I also agree and admit on numerous occasions that recruitment has been shit. If people have fair reasoning and take care to articulate it, go for it. But at least try and value to board and the discussion. What I am getting really fucked off with is people just getting mindlessly shouty; criticising him and him and her, without actually knowing what they're shouty for. And its the veracity with which it's done. Take the OP for example, admits they don't know what Winter does but wants them sacked regardless because it's all their fault. Its endless ear slugdge. It was 'potless Phill's 'fault, now, because he got a manager people like its onto bashing Winter and Marsh and we want them sacked, made accountable, publicly shamed. Maybe I should have said; 'get a fucking grip', perhaps? I think my post has perhaps been misinterpreted somewhat or wasn't worded correctly re accountability. You could look at the Paddy Power affair for example and ask who's accountable for that **** up that's cost the club £50k. Were procedures followed so the board were all aligned with the deal? Etc, Etc.
Did it cost us £50k? Or did it out make us £450k (example don't know full actual figures) more than we would have got by being sponsored by company X? |
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Post by Mastercracker on Sept 16, 2019 22:26:53 GMT 1
Well Limbombe went on to do nothing, and Traore was always gonna pick money no object wolves over us but still looks crap to me. But yeah it would be interesting. And also impossible to apportion blame without knowing, but that won’t stop most. If I'm the manager and I'm going to get sacked for crap results I'd want to be involved in scouting players, I'd want to watch them in the flesh more than once not on You Tube, Diakhaby and Mbenza look like Platini and Tigana in their prime on You Tube. I can't believe for one minute Wagner gave the nod on the signing of these two or Hadergonaj or Sobhi if so I'd have to question his judgement. How many hours are in your day? And if it’s just 24 like the rest of us are you working all the waking ones to the detriment of your wife and kids? They aren’t machines, no matter what the salaries. It’s not the 80s where everyone in the league was British so all you did to scout was pop down to the nearest game every so often. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Sept 16, 2019 22:27:54 GMT 1
I think my post has perhaps been misinterpreted somewhat or wasn't worded correctly re accountability. You could look at the Paddy Power affair for example and ask who's accountable for that **** up that's cost the club £50k. Were procedures followed so the board were all aligned with the deal? Etc, Etc.
Fair enough. On the PP front it was PH and commercial director SJ. PH has said as much and acknowledged it was a fuck-up in his podcast interview. They’ve leant lessons. Other oversights were selling players (assets) that are long-term servants for considerable fees and not recognising that they have to pay a substantial amount of tax on these players because their value is taken by HMRC to be zero. So, in the words of PH, this years installer of monies for Tommy Smith and Phil Billing is in the pocket of HMRC. We won’t have monies from the proceeds of their respective sales to spend until next year. Probably because it’s been so fucking long since we had and sold a long serving player for a decent fee! I’m short, everyone with some modicum of responsibility has made mistakes of varying magnitudes. Probably because we were simply not ready for the PL and so far behind. PH not knowing that players with zero value on the balance sheet means the club had to pay corporation tax on the profit is not an oversight. Although he didn't know, those in the club that actually undertake the business of the club will know. And ultimately, the players value cannot be altered on the balance sheet or increase his value when selling because they owe tax on the sale price He is basically just enlightening us to the complexities and realities of the financial situation. |
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Tiro
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by Tiro on Sept 16, 2019 22:57:47 GMT 1
Fair enough. On the PP front it was PH and commercial director SJ. PH has said as much and acknowledged it was a fuck-up in his podcast interview. They’ve leant lessons. Other oversights were selling players (assets) that are long-term servants for considerable fees and not recognising that they have to pay a substantial amount of tax on these players because their value is taken by HMRC to be zero. So, in the words of PH, this years installer of monies for Tommy Smith and Phil Billing is in the pocket of HMRC. We won’t have monies from the proceeds of their respective sales to spend until next year. Probably because it’s been so fucking long since we had and sold a long serving player for a decent fee! I’m short, everyone with some modicum of responsibility has made mistakes of varying magnitudes. Probably because we were simply not ready for the PL and so far behind. PH not knowing that players with zero value on the balance sheet means the club had to pay corporation tax on the profit is not an oversight. Although he didn't know, those in the club that actually undertake the business of the club will know. And ultimately, the players value cannot be altered on the balance sheet or increase his value when selling because they owe tax on the sale price He is basically just enlightening us to the complexities and realities of the financial situation. Ah, thanks for the clarity. I admit that’s not how I heard but happy to be corrected 👍 |
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Sept 16, 2019 23:06:01 GMT 1
These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster. Jarvis is hard to like loves Himself ! My son flew to america on same Flight 2 years ago ! he said Don`t you Know who i am ! Cocky Arrogant ! but least of our Problems Your son does sound cocky and arrogant. How on earth would SJ be expected to know who he was? |
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diceman
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Post by diceman on Sept 16, 2019 23:22:37 GMT 1
I've read the op and a few posts after. This thread is a fucking embarrassment. People need to get a grip of their selves.
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Post by Paphos Terrier on Sept 16, 2019 23:30:26 GMT 1
These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster. For whatever reason it all went wrong. We dont know the ins and outs of what has happened behind the scenes. We need to try stop scapegoating and start again. I have no idea why you felt the need to use marsh's age as a stick to beat him with though. He's barely out of nappies if that helps |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2019 23:45:05 GMT 1
15? I bet most PL clubs and top end championship clubs have 50 on their books. You bet?? You mean you don't know.  Don’t Town predominately use Tonsser to find emerging talent rather than rely on an actual first party scouting network? |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 17, 2019 0:33:28 GMT 1
You bet?? You mean you don't know. Don’t Town predominately use Tonsser to find emerging talent rather than rely on an actual first party scouting network? They've signed a few tonssers lately |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 6:33:12 GMT 1
You bet?? You mean you don't know. Don’t Town predominately use Tonsser to find emerging talent rather than rely on an actual first party scouting network? I have no idea. What I do know is the Cowleys want to see players first hand before buying. Could be interesting. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 7:39:10 GMT 1
Fair enough. On the PP front it was PH and commercial director SJ. PH has said as much and acknowledged it was a fuck-up in his podcast interview. They’ve leant lessons. Other oversights were selling players (assets) that are long-term servants for considerable fees and not recognising that they have to pay a substantial amount of tax on these players because their value is taken by HMRC to be zero. So, in the words of PH, this years installer of monies for Tommy Smith and Phil Billing is in the pocket of HMRC. We won’t have monies from the proceeds of their respective sales to spend until next year. Probably because it’s been so fucking long since we had and sold a long serving player for a decent fee! I’m short, everyone with some modicum of responsibility has made mistakes of varying magnitudes. Probably because we were simply not ready for the PL and so far behind. PH not knowing that players with zero value on the balance sheet means the club had to pay corporation tax on the profit is not an oversight. Although he didn't know, those in the club that actually undertake the business of the club will know. And ultimately, the players value cannot be altered on the balance sheet or increase his value when selling because they owe tax on the sale price He is basically just enlightening us to the complexities and realities of the financial situation. HTFC have lost tens of millions until the last tax year. Surely our ‘losses brought forward’ on the tax comps will still be enough to roll forward and offset these profits? |
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Tiro
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Post by Tiro on Sept 17, 2019 9:16:09 GMT 1
For whatever reason it all went wrong. We dont know the ins and outs of what has happened behind the scenes. We need to try stop scapegoating and start again. I have no idea why you felt the need to use marsh's age as a stick to beat him with though. He's barely out of nappies if that helps Sorry, did i miss the part where skill/ability and intellectual capacity/accumin were given an age-cap? Scrap the academy, we will only sign senior pro's from here-on! 24, 'barely out of nappies'  . It hurts when young adults are smarter than you, eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 9:35:52 GMT 1
He's barely out of nappies if that helps Sorry, did i miss the part where skill/ability and intellectual capacity/accumin were given an age-cap? Scrap the academy, we will only sign senior pro's from here-on! 24, 'barely out of nappies' . It hurts when young adults are smarter than you, eh? Josh, I wouldn’t call spaffing millions of pounds particularly smart, would you? |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 17, 2019 10:29:43 GMT 1
The Cowleys know who is available now and can try and bring one or two in NOW.
Its a decision being left to them as it should be now. They are working with staff here on the January window NOW.
The main work is to get the squad here now to play to their best in the system that the new blokes want.
This terminal going backwards and wanting to sack all and sundry is unhelpful and pointless.
Two blokes need to get 11 blokes to play football to their best potential for 3 months and then the whole club needs to work together to get in what those 2 blokes believe they need.
We need to support the club and if you spend the week having a pop at your preferred target and 90 minutes moaning or yelling abuse at the game, you are not really helping.
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Tiro
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Post by Tiro on Sept 17, 2019 10:35:59 GMT 1
Sorry, did i miss the part where skill/ability and intellectual capacity/accumin were given an age-cap? Scrap the academy, we will only sign senior pro's from here-on! 24, 'barely out of nappies' . It hurts when young adults are smarter than you, eh? Josh, I wouldn’t call spaffing millions of pounds particularly smart, would you? Yeah, it's clear you're the intellectual. Four pages on and all things point to Marsh; there's no argument / reason to assume so, other than his job description, and the discussion probably points to a combination of issues, but fuck it - we want blood! Given we have now established beyond doubt that 'Josh' (you must know him, so you know better than I), who has only just left nappies at the tender age of 24 (therefore rendering him no more qualified to undertake anything but sweep the stairs and make the teas) acted alone in dictating what we wanted, who we wanted and pressed send on the fax machine, I vote we publicly shame him and hang him! Why not. #MarshOut |
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Post by rastrick32 on Sept 17, 2019 10:39:17 GMT 1
He's barely out of nappies if that helps Sorry, did i miss the part where skill/ability and intellectual capacity/accumin were given an age-cap? Scrap the academy, we will only sign senior pro's from here-on! 24, 'barely out of nappies' . It hurts when young adults are smarter than you, eh? I think a younger age will prove more beneficial. He's probably very ambitious, driven, flexible and willing to accept change. Unlike over 50's like me who are generally know-all, miserable twats. |
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Tiro
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Post by Tiro on Sept 17, 2019 10:39:21 GMT 1
The Cowleys know who is available now and can try and bring one or two in NOW. Its a decision being left to them as it should be now. They are working with staff here on the January window NOW.The main work is to get the squad here now to play to their best in the system that the new blokes want. This terminal going backwards and wanting to sack all and sundry is unhelpful and pointless. Two blokes need to get 11 blokes to play football to their best potential for 3 months and then the whole club needs to work together to get in what those 2 blokes believe they need. We need to support the club and if you spend the week having a pop at your preferred target and 90 minutes moaning or yelling abuse at the game, you are not really helping. Including Josh Marsh!? Fuck. We're doomed!  |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 17, 2019 10:49:56 GMT 1
The Cowleys know who is available now and can try and bring one or two in NOW. Its a decision being left to them as it should be now. They are working with staff here on the January window NOW.The main work is to get the squad here now to play to their best in the system that the new blokes want. This terminal going backwards and wanting to sack all and sundry is unhelpful and pointless. Two blokes need to get 11 blokes to play football to their best potential for 3 months and then the whole club needs to work together to get in what those 2 blokes believe they need. We need to support the club and if you spend the week having a pop at your preferred target and 90 minutes moaning or yelling abuse at the game, you are not really helping. Including Josh Marsh!? Fuck. We're doomed! The Cowleys will be central and the arbitors of any decisions made re recruitment and retentions. The other staff are required re the groundwork needed. At this moment the work is more centred on getting the best from what we have and therefore more will be done re this early work by other staff. Wagner asked for sidemen, changed his mind after personal issues with his staff, that won't happen again. The Cowleys want control and they will shoulder the errors if they make them. No . Change back to the organ grinder making decisions. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 10:54:15 GMT 1
I've read the op and a few posts after. This thread is a fucking embarrassment. People need to get a grip of their selves. Reference 90% of the threads since June! |
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Tiro
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Post by Tiro on Sept 17, 2019 11:06:18 GMT 1
Including Josh Marsh!? Fuck. We're doomed! The Cowleys will be central and the arbitors of any decisions made re recruitment and retentions. The other staff are required re the groundwork needed. At this moment the work is more centred on getting the best from what we have and therefore more will be done re this early work by other staff. Wagner asked for sidemen, changed his mind after personal issues with his staff, that won't happen again. The Cowleys want control and they will shoulder the errors if they make them. No . Change back to the organ grinder making decisions. Stop using balance and reason to inform! Thanks for the info.  UTT |
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Post by space hardware on Sept 17, 2019 11:27:16 GMT 1
Including Josh Marsh!? Fuck. We're doomed! The Cowleys will be central and the arbitors of any decisions made re recruitment and retentions. The other staff are required re the groundwork needed. At this moment the work is more centred on getting the best from what we have and therefore more will be done re this early work by other staff. Wagner asked for sidemen, changed his mind after personal issues with his staff, that won't happen again. The Cowleys want control and they will shoulder the errors if they make them. No . Change back to the organ grinder making decisions. Care to elaborate on that? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 11:38:19 GMT 1
The jury is out on Marsh's capabilities, however the flak Winter has received is uncalled for.
IMO there'll be changes in personnel now the new boys are at the helm. Their big reputation is at stake and failure isn't an option.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 17, 2019 12:01:29 GMT 1
The Cowleys will be central and the arbitors of any decisions made re recruitment and retentions. The other staff are required re the groundwork needed. At this moment the work is more centred on getting the best from what we have and therefore more will be done re this early work by other staff. Wagner asked for sidemen, changed his mind after personal issues with his staff, that won't happen again. The Cowleys want control and they will shoulder the errors if they make them. No . Change back to the organ grinder making decisions. Care to elaborate on that? Fell out with 2 or 3 staff including Rebbe over quite a few things. Not a secret? Times got tougher and the rifts got bigger. Happens everywhere? Cowleys will identify targets, diligence done by others but final decision will be theirs if the club sanction fee and wages. They will not coach players they did not want once they are sorted. Wagner didn't but did sanction them coming here difference is its been enshrined in their contract. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2019 14:01:36 GMT 1
Knowledge and experience,, History that is not known nor spoke about will be repeated,,
So you think a gang of blokes, who weren't there, and know the square root of fuck all, endlessly debating stuff that is history is somehow going to make everything better? Leave it... Its gone. New chairman new managers. The only matches that actually count are the ones we've not played yet. The seven matches we've played do count Ted. We have to play the same opposition again....surely something to be learnt from looking back at those games ? |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 17, 2019 16:51:40 GMT 1
So you think a gang of blokes, who weren't there, and know the square root of fuck all, endlessly debating stuff that is history is somehow going to make everything better? Leave it... Its gone. New chairman new managers. The only matches that actually count are the ones we've not played yet. The seven matches we've played do count Ted. We have to play the same opposition again....surely something to be learnt from looking back at those games ? Absolutely.. I didn't say otherwise mate. I'm sure the brothers will be wearing the casing out of the DVDs (if they still use them) |
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Post by royrace on Sept 17, 2019 18:01:44 GMT 1
Care to elaborate on that? Fell out with 2 or 3 staff including Rebbe over quite a few things. Not a secret? Times got tougher and the rifts got bigger. Happens everywhere? Cowleys will identify targets, diligence done by others but final decision will be theirs if the club sanction fee and wages. They will not coach players they did not want once they are sorted. Wagner didn't but did sanction them coming here difference is its been enshrined in their contract. Roughly translated they bought him crap players, advised him of the budget and that it would be shortly getting even worse, he realised he was flogging a dead horse and did one sharpish like you would. Stressed my arse. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Sept 17, 2019 20:35:10 GMT 1
Fell out with 2 or 3 staff including Rebbe over quite a few things. Not a secret? Times got tougher and the rifts got bigger. Happens everywhere? Cowleys will identify targets, diligence done by others but final decision will be theirs if the club sanction fee and wages. They will not coach players they did not want once they are sorted. Wagner didn't but did sanction them coming here difference is its been enshrined in their contract. Roughly translated they bought him crap players, advised him of the budget and that it would be shortly getting even worse, he realised he was flogging a dead horse and did one sharpish like you would. Stressed my arse. And this all happened when we were in the Premier League. Bloody chucked it all away hence why feelings are still running high. This Summer has been even worse with the new managerial appointments been the only positive thing to occur in the last 18 months. |
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. It hurts when young adults are smarter than you, eh? 
