Sack Winter and Marsh

[mickydombat]

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

[Frankiesleftpeg]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

Exactly that I'd guess. In charge of operations and not football.

Marsh on the other hand.....

[arroloui]

I agree sack them all and Hudson too he has to go
We need to get rid of all the bad vibes..
Otherwise its 2 relegations on the bounce ..
That's not going to help in getting back to the premier league.

[bluestripe]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

You are a clown. Neither DH nor PH seem to suffer fools when it comes to their money, but yet they continue to employ them. PH clearly rated Marsh in his podcast.

And as PH says, we on the outside know 5% of what's going on. But you expect PH to sack them based on your limited assessment.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

Yet you fail to blame the one man who had final say on every player?

[benhomly]

Sept 16, 2019 12:53:44 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

You are a clown. Neither DH nor PH seem to suffer fools when it comes to their money, but yet they continue to employ them. PH clearly rated Marsh in his podcast.

And as PH says, we on the outside know 5% of what's going on. But you expect PH to sack them based on your limited assessment.

They might not suffer fools but they sure as hell make mistakes. And plenty of them considering the complete mess our club is in at the moment.

[royrace]

So off the back of the worst recruitment in the clubs history which has cost the club its place in the top division and possibly soon the second you are wanting to sack the head of recruitment? Harsh.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

For whatever reason it all went wrong. We dont know the ins and outs of what has happened behind the scenes. We need to try stop scapegoating and start again.

I have no idea why you felt the need to use marsh's age as a stick to beat him with though.

[Tiro]

Fucking. Wow.

Just when I thought this board couldn't get any worse...we get yet another thread based on ill-informed/ inaccurate bile.

Can we sack fans / make them hang their heads in shame?

DATM: a metaphor for Brexit (there, I said it).

[Tinpot]

Sept 16, 2019 12:53:44 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

You are a clown. Neither DH nor PH seem to suffer fools when it comes to their money, but yet they continue to employ them. PH clearly rated Marsh in his podcast.

And as PH says, we on the outside know 5% of what's going on. But you expect PH to sack them based on your limited assessment.

This.

There certainly needs to be an inquest into just how the recruitment has gone from being superb in the summer of 2016 to being so bad from summer 2018 onwards. If that's the fault of Winter & Marsh, then they need to be held accountable for it and measures put in place to ensure that we do things better next time. If that's redefining their role, fine. If that's sacking them, fine. If what happened was not their fault at all, then that's fine too. Just so long as we learn from what happened.

PH is a fan, just as we are - but he's also put his head above the parapet. He has more reason than any of us to want to get this right - and more inside knowledge than any of us.

[Tiro]

Sept 16, 2019 13:05:37 GMT 1 royrace said:

So off the back of the worst recruitment in the clubs history which has cost the club its place in the top division and possibly soon the second you are wanting to sack the head of recruitment? Harsh.

[royrace]

Sept 16, 2019 13:08:24 GMT 1 Tiro said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:05:37 GMT 1 royrace said:

So off the back of the worst recruitment in the clubs history which has cost the club its place in the top division and possibly soon the second you are wanting to sack the head of recruitment? Harsh.

I didn't think it was in any doubt?! No period of recruitment has even come close and probably never will again 

If you can think of a worse one let me know...

I'm not advocating sacking anyone btw but I can see why people would.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 13:18:09 GMT 1 royrace said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:08:24 GMT 1 Tiro said:

I didn't think it was in any doubt?! No period of recruitment has even come close and probably never will again 

If you can think of a worse one let me know...

1997-98, we scraped survival the previous season and during the pre season signed Chris Hurst and Michael Midwood.

[Nickhudds.UTT]

Whoever this marsh is he is robbing a living

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 12:53:44 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

You are a clown. Neither DH nor PH seem to suffer fools when it comes to their money, but yet they continue to employ them. PH clearly rated Marsh in his podcast.

And as PH says, we on the outside know 5% of what's going on. But you expect PH to sack them based on your limited assessment.

its what you come to expect from people like like dumwit sorry dombat who know nothing about the work that winter and marsh do. they just like to spout shite when anything seems to be going through a bad patch.i know everyone is entitled to a opinion but come ondumwit coudnt run a bath.

[space hardware]

Sept 16, 2019 12:53:44 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

You are a clown. Neither DH nor PH seem to suffer fools when it comes to their money, but yet they continue to employ them. PH clearly rated Marsh in his podcast.

And as PH says, we on the outside know 5% of what's going on. But you expect PH to sack them based on your limited assessment.

Did he call him a "top, top guy" by any chance?

[Tiro]

Sept 16, 2019 13:18:09 GMT 1 royrace said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:08:24 GMT 1 Tiro said:

I didn't think it was in any doubt?! No period of recruitment has even come close and probably never will again 

If you can think of a worse one let me know...

I'm not advocating sacking anyone btw but I can see why people would.

It's all relative isn't it (there are many variables), which is why it is ridiculous to define it as much.

My knowledge of Town doesn't surpass 1994 (the person that made such a comment must be an elderly gentleman / or women at best), but so far as notable failures in my lifetime:

Do you remember when we sold Marcus Stewart, in January 2000, to a promotion rival, and then signed the likes of Kevin Kyle, Rob Kozluk, Chris hay, Jim Brennan, and Kevin Gallen the following year? That ended well.

I also remember the year we signed approx 21 players in one season (2008/2009, Ternent and Clark combined). It didn't end in misery and some of those players went on to achieve good things at the club, but if we're talking about spaffing money up the wall then we had a fucking good go that year. It was so good infact, we only needed to purchase another 13 players the season after, in which we finished 6th, scrapping into the playoffs only to be knocked out by a team that operated on a third of our budget. That did end in misery. Not to be out done by the previous season, we went to sign a further 17 players over the course of the 2010-11 in a division which again couldn't compete with us financially. We finished 3rd that year, making the play-off final only for.....

So yeah, in terms of periods of terrible transfer activity, I'd plump for 2008-2011.

[kennyk2]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

Seeing that PH has gone from zero to hero after one podcast, and that JS has... well... just gone, I was wondering who at the club were going to be the next fall guys. I blame Anne Hough myself!

[mickydombat]

OK blame no one and carry on sinking, seems a plan.

[royrace]

Sept 16, 2019 13:56:44 GMT 1 Tiro said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:18:09 GMT 1 royrace said:

I didn't think it was in any doubt?! No period of recruitment has even come close and probably never will again 

If you can think of a worse one let me know...

I'm not advocating sacking anyone btw but I can see why people would.

It's all relative isn't it (there are many variables), which is why it is ridiculous to define it as much.

My knowledge of Town doesn't surpass 1994 (the person that made such a comment must be an elderly gentleman / or women at best), but so far as notable failures in my lifetime:

Do you remember when we sold Marcus Stewart, in January 2000, to a promotion rival, and then signed the likes of Kevin Kyle, Rob Kozluk, Chris hay, Jim Brennan, and Kevin Gallen the following year? That ended well.

I also remember the year we signed approx 21 players in one season (2008/2009, Ternent and Clark combined). It didn't end in misery and some of those players went on to achieve good things at the club, but if we're talking about spaffing money up the wall then we had a fucking good go that year. It was so good infact, we only needed to purchase another 13 players the season after.

All things considered, particularly the level of fees and the importance in terms of allowing the club to progress beyond our wildest dreams and keep the best manager we had in 50 years, Id say recent recruitment has been the worst in the clubs history. The rest pales into insignificance.

The consistency has been pretty breathtaking too, all clubs get it wrong from time to time but to get so many, so badly wrong, spanning more than one season is unprecedented IMO. Incomings, outgoing, crazy fees, players not even good enough to start matches from the bench let alone contribute, you'd struggle to top it I think, in any era. 

Many of the players you mention above were indeed poor signings but at least we managed to get most of them on the bloody pitch! We were often forced to shop in bargain basement too. 

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 14:04:56 GMT 1 kennyk2 said:

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

Seeing that PH has gone from zero to hero after one podcast, and that JS has... well... just gone, I was wondering who at the club were going to be the next fall guys. I blame Anne Hough myself!

JS has not gone. He still knocking around the place.

[Tiro]

Sept 16, 2019 14:11:56 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

OK blame no one and carry on sinking, seems a plan.

Why do we have to blame someone? Just so you can be shouty? Do you need a target to aim your season ticket at?

[overtonterrierspirit]

Sept 16, 2019 14:13:07 GMT 1 royrace said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:56:44 GMT 1 Tiro said:

It's all relative isn't it (there are many variables), which is why it is ridiculous to define it as much.

My knowledge of Town doesn't surpass 1994 (the person that made such a comment must be an elderly gentleman / or women at best), but so far as notable failures in my lifetime:

Do you remember when we sold Marcus Stewart, in January 2000, to a promotion rival, and then signed the likes of Kevin Kyle, Rob Kozluk, Chris hay, Jim Brennan, and Kevin Gallen the following year? That ended well.

I also remember the year we signed approx 21 players in one season (2008/2009, Ternent and Clark combined). It didn't end in misery and some of those players went on to achieve good things at the club, but if we're talking about spaffing money up the wall then we had a fucking good go that year. It was so good infact, we only needed to purchase another 13 players the season after.

All things considered, particularly the level of fees and the importance in terms of allowing the club to progress beyond our wildest dreams and keep the best manager we had in 50 years, Id say recent recruitment has been the worst in the clubs history. The rest pales into insignificance.

The consistency has been pretty breathtaking too, all clubs get it wrong from time to time but to get so many, so badly wrong, spanning more than one season is unprecedented IMO. Incomings, outgoing, crazy fees, players not even good enough to start matches from the bench let alone contribute, you'd struggle to top it I think, in any era. 

Many of the players you mention above were indeed poor signings but at least we managed to get most of them on the bloody pitch! We were often forced to shop in bargain basement too. 

Yes. It has been that bad that it is totally understandable that, as it’s the root cause of our predicament, people are still angry about it.

[Deleted]

Sept 16, 2019 14:11:56 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

OK blame no one and carry on sinking, seems a plan.

What a fantastic reasoned counter argument to all the replies you have received. Well done.

I have no idea why people make threads when they can't even be arsed to try elaborate or debate their point, apart from attention seeking.

[Tiro]

Sept 16, 2019 14:13:07 GMT 1 royrace said:

Sept 16, 2019 13:56:44 GMT 1 Tiro said:

It's all relative isn't it (there are many variables), which is why it is ridiculous to define it as much.

My knowledge of Town doesn't surpass 1994 (the person that made such a comment must be an elderly gentleman / or women at best), but so far as notable failures in my lifetime:

Do you remember when we sold Marcus Stewart, in January 2000, to a promotion rival, and then signed the likes of Kevin Kyle, Rob Kozluk, Chris hay, Jim Brennan, and Kevin Gallen the following year? That ended well.

I also remember the year we signed approx 21 players in one season (2008/2009, Ternent and Clark combined). It didn't end in misery and some of those players went on to achieve good things at the club, but if we're talking about spaffing money up the wall then we had a fucking good go that year. It was so good infact, we only needed to purchase another 13 players the season after.

All things considered, particularly the level of fees and the importance in terms of allowing the club to progress beyond our wildest dreams and keep the best manager we had in 50 years, Id say recent recruitment has been the worst in the clubs history. The rest pales into insignificance.

The consistency has been pretty breathtaking too, all clubs get it wrong from time to time but to get so many, so badly wrong, spanning more than one season is unprecedented IMO. Incomings, outgoing, crazy fees, players not even good enough to start matches from the bench let alone contribute, you'd struggle to top it I think, in any era. 

Many of the players you mention above were indeed poor signings but at least we managed to get most of them on the bloody pitch! We were often forced to shop in bargain basement too. 

Financially, of course, but you can't use that as the sole variable in defining it as the 'worst in the clubs history' as it is not comparable with all other seasons - you have to weigh up budget, the division and markets as whole and the outcome.

On balance, all those players were signed were in a division where our budget was far higher than any other team (I refer to the Clark era of course). Where we didn't need to rummage in the basement. Our approach to recruitment was obviously built on the same bingo machine he used for team selection. [apologies, I have since edited my original post to go even further on Clark's reign].


And, in comparison, we had the lowest budget to play with in the PL - we operated in the PL's bargain bin.

[keithAM11532]

Sack him, and him, and him. Sack all the players, and the manager, and the tea lady. Then, when there is no one left, we can all moan about the meagre threadbare size of the squad. Where are all the players, how do you expect us to survive in this division let alone get a promotion with such a small squad. Who sacked all those players without replacement, well sack him then.

[Tiro]

Sept 16, 2019 14:22:52 GMT 1 keithAM11532 said:

Sack him, and him, and him. Sack all the players, and the manager, and the tea lady. Then, when there is no one left, we can all moan about the meagre threadbare size of the squad. Where are all the players, how do you expect us to survive in this division let alone get a promotion with such a small squad. Who sacked all those players without replacement, well sack him then.

Right, that's it; you're sacked!

[tyketaffy]

Sept 16, 2019 12:33:27 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

These two need sacking they have recommended shite and should hang their heads in shame. What has Winter being doing for all his time supposedly being charge of operations? Making a dogs dinner of everything and Marsh at 26 being trusted as head of recruitment, well that's been an unmitigated disaster.

To repeat what both Deano and Phil have said in recent weeks the MANAGER has the final say on transfers. Wagner wanted some fast wingers to supply the strikers then changed tactics after we bought them but he had the final say on what style of players he wanted and who was bought. Siewert had the final say in the latest transfer window the same way.

No one claims the board have done a great job in recent months but lets be fair no one has at the club. Mistakes have been made and admitted and they are trying to get this rectified and move us ahead again, but constantly harping on about past mistakes and playing the blame game is not going to get us out of this mess.

We have new managers in place who are far more qualified than any fan to see whats wrong at the club and more importantly change it. Whatever anyone thinks about Phil Hodgkinson he can see as well as the rest of us that a big change was needed and some new blood be brought it. Hes done that in getting us possibly the best up and coming English managers in the game. They have the experience and knowledge to try and get this squad working better and seeing who they need and can bring in the Jan transfer window. I cannot see them having signed for the club without some assurances that they will be able to spend in the Jan transfer window. And we will have to spend as you cannot make a silk purse out of sows ear but the board know that, the chairman knows that and so did the Cowley bros before they signed

[overtonterrierspirit]

Sept 16, 2019 14:19:49 GMT 1 Tiro said:

Sept 16, 2019 14:13:07 GMT 1 royrace said:

All things considered, particularly the level of fees and the importance in terms of allowing the club to progress beyond our wildest dreams and keep the best manager we had in 50 years, Id say recent recruitment has been the worst in the clubs history. The rest pales into insignificance.

The consistency has been pretty breathtaking too, all clubs get it wrong from time to time but to get so many, so badly wrong, spanning more than one season is unprecedented IMO. Incomings, outgoing, crazy fees, players not even good enough to start matches from the bench let alone contribute, you'd struggle to top it I think, in any era. 

Many of the players you mention above were indeed poor signings but at least we managed to get most of them on the bloody pitch! We were often forced to shop in bargain basement too. 

Financially, of course, but you can't use that as the sole variable in defining it as the 'worst in the clubs history' as it is not comparable with all other seasons - you have to weigh up budget, the division and markets as whole and the outcome.

On balance, all those players were signed were in a division where our budget was far higher than any other team (I refer to the Clark era of course). Where we didn't need to rummage in the basement. Our approach to recruitment was obviously built on the same bingo machine he used for team selection. [apologies, I have since edited my original post to go even further on Clark's reign].


And, in comparison, we had the lowest budget to play with in the PL - we operated in the PL's bargain bin.

You are right. It’s not comparable with other seasons.
We were in the Premier League, not League 1 and our pathetically poor recruitment meant that we threw away our PL status and now potentially, our place in the Championship as well.

[Mastercracker]

Sept 16, 2019 14:14:38 GMT 1 Tiro said:

Sept 16, 2019 14:11:56 GMT 1 mickydombat said:

OK blame no one and carry on sinking, seems a plan.

Why do we have to blame someone? Just so you can be shouty? Do you need a target to aim your season ticket at?

Exactly. The whole club was not ready for the premier league, and why would it be we hadnt been there ever in modern football and we weren't exactly planning for it happening.


Why do people have to apportion blame 100% or even 50/50 to certain individuals. The failings ran (run) throughout the whole club but as ever with football fans there is no shade of grey, just black and white.