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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 14, 2020 14:38:38 GMT 1
The figures quoted on here, whether its maynardblue or potless_phil (and I think I know which to believe) are mind-boggling and very concerning. In simple terms it seems DH being returned his loans has hamstring the club to the extent that we’re now on a tightrope with the real threat of a second successive relegation, with the club not really able, financially, to support the Cowleys to the extent they need to. What I don’t quite get is that DH is a Town fan, he’s witnessing the same crap on the pitch as we are, yet it seems like he’s accepting of it. You have to hope and trust that PH and/or DH have a plan/vision for the future of HTAFC. God knows what that is though. Unless and until things are more fully explained and justified then I’m afraid I’ll be more sceptical of what either PH or DH say in the future. This club seems to have lost its soul. From the outside the leadership at the top of this club has been rank rotten for the last two years. Good luck Danny and Nicky. I'm guessing obviously, but to me it looks very much like either the premier league destroyed DH's appetite for football, or his illness destroyed his appetite for football (or both). Taking back the money, especially at seemingly a crippling pace don't seem to be the actions of a heart over head passionate fan that he once was. Yes he's entitled to it, but I don't think DH of old would have taken it, and I cant see how any Town fan doesn't find it massively disappointing. |
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wigster
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Post by wigster on Jan 14, 2020 14:52:53 GMT 1
The figures quoted on here, whether its maynardblue or potless_phil (and I think I know which to believe) are mind-boggling and very concerning. In simple terms it seems DH being returned his loans has hamstrung the club to the extent that we’re now on a tightrope with the real threat of a second successive relegation, with the club not really able, financially, to support the Cowleys to the extent they need to. What I don’t quite get is that DH is a Town fan, he’s witnessing the same crap on the pitch as we are, yet it seems like he’s accepting of it. You have to hope and trust that PH and DH have a plan/vision for the future of HTAFC. God knows what that is though. Unless and until things are more fully explained and justified then I’m afraid I’ll be more sceptical of what either PH or DH say in the future. This club seems to have lost its soul. From the outside the leadership at the top of this club has been rank rotten for the last two years. Good luck Danny and Nicky. Excellent post - thank you. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 14:58:27 GMT 1
Can’t believe the naivety on this thread. Dean took the Premier League money to develop Canalside, that he owns. He rents it back to Town (landlord). He followed the same model as our stadium. Phil bought in with parachute payments. The hope was we would offload the expensive signings and use the cash for new signings. Obviously this hasn’t happened. I have been banned before for predicting this 2-3 years ago when everyone has over the moon with the progress. What is my source? Club accounts and >20 years running countries for MNCs. Wake up and smell the coffee. Your ignorance of basic accounting principles depresses me. " Phil bought in with parachute payments"? FMR. |
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Post by detox on Jan 14, 2020 14:59:39 GMT 1
Am just thinking if the club are spending money on Canalside, a facility it does not own but will rent from DH , can I ask why ?
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Post by phishman on Jan 14, 2020 15:03:16 GMT 1
Can’t believe the naivety on this thread. Dean took the Premier League money to develop Canalside, that he owns. He rents it back to Town (landlord). He followed the same model as our stadium. Phil bought in with parachute payments. The hope was we would offload the expensive signings and use the cash for new signings. Obviously this hasn’t happened. I have been banned before for predicting this 2-3 years ago when everyone has over the moon with the progress. What is my source? Club accounts and >20 years running countries for MNCs. Wake up and smell the coffee. Your ignorance of basic accounting principles depresses me. " Phil bought in with parachute payments"? FMR. You are blind. But you crack on |
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Post by VLP Fan Club on Jan 14, 2020 15:04:11 GMT 1
Admins can we move this to the finance thread before it turns into a war zone again
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Post by Kenny irons on Jan 14, 2020 15:07:02 GMT 1
Go to the finance thread please not all of us come on this thread to read about finances
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 14, 2020 15:17:30 GMT 1
If DH was a true supporter of this club, there is no way he would put the club back decades just to get his buck back. I find that outcome beyond strange as will any town fan with a slight passion for this club. It’s in our blood.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 16:21:36 GMT 1
We don't know whether he has taken anything yet. And the 18/19 financial year accounts due by March 20th will only tell us if he was repaid any monies before 30th June 2019. It could be years before we know how much the club and he have agreed is due from the £49m we owe him, and when the final tranche will be paid. I'd suggest that us spending the square root of jack shit, despite us being a "Parachute Payment" club, would strongly imply that the payback has already started. Parachutes aren’t intended to create a huge transfer budget and drive expectation of a promotion push, they’re to aid in the transition of a club from EPL to EFL income streams that is in the meantime carrying committed costs such as players on contracts that EFL incomes alone would otherwise have no chance of meeting. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 14, 2020 18:49:37 GMT 1
Joined the Club when it was finishing about 16th in League one. Moved the Club from a field at Storthes Hall and some portable cabins to Canalside. Leaves the Club in a far better place than that he joined. Worth alot more than when he joined. He loaned £50 million and has every right to take that cash back. Yes and he owns canalside Yes and he owns 25% still in a club worth more than what he paid (how much did it cost him at the outset and what are his share worth now ?) One thing we dont know is if he actually also got a price for the shares he sold Looks like he got plenty on top of his loans. He owns Canalside because he bought the land and invested in the original facility so that such as Davy could not morgage it off to the detriment of the club. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 14, 2020 18:49:50 GMT 1
Joined the Club when it was finishing about 16th in League one. Moved the Club from a field at Storthes Hall and some portable cabins to Canalside. Leaves the Club in a far better place than that he joined. Worth alot more than when he joined. He loaned £50 million and has every right to take that cash back. Yes and he owns canalside Yes and he owns 25% still in a club worth more than what he paid (how much did it cost him at the outset and what are his share worth now ?) One thing we dont know is if he actually also got a price for the shares he sold Looks like he got plenty on top of his loans. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 14, 2020 19:03:05 GMT 1
We were not nigh on self sufficient, we were losing £7m or so every year. That's why we owe DH £49m, he covered those losses with loans.
Eh, No way was Davy sticking 7M in the kitty a season to prop us up,, Hoyle took over and increased the budget to make us competitive.
Davy only let us spend what we were earning, We were nigh on self sufficient, shite but nigh on self sufficient.
The new chairman has taken over and has an unsustainable wage bill to sort asap, If the Cowleys wand stops waving magic and we suffer another relegation,, Well, Its not worth thinking about at the moment.
We have our shared in the stadium back, plus a bigger say in how it is run. We have a much better pitch to play on fit a start We have a much supperior training facility, which will be better still soon. We have a squad of players with £Ms not £ks (granted we need to get rid of some of them ASAP _ but what ever we get for them will be money in the kitty to invest / run the club) Our position is not that unusual for a relegated club. Look at Stoke (who spent more last season than the year before, but just warned fans not to expect many incoming because if FFP this month) sundsrland, wolves, Man C, Norwich, Soton. Bkackburn. All went down to Div 1 after been relegated from the Prem. Most of them in fincial trouble necause they gambled and lost. |
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Post by space hardware on Jan 14, 2020 19:08:48 GMT 1
I'd suggest that us spending the square root of jack shit, despite us being a "Parachute Payment" club, would strongly imply that the payback has already started. Parachutes aren’t intended to create a huge transfer budget and drive expectation of a promotion push, they’re to aid in the transition of a club from EPL to EFL income streams that is in the meantime carrying committed costs such as players on contracts that EFL incomes alone would otherwise have no chance of meeting. Ah, I see. So when Powell and others connected to the club stated that we couldn't compete with Parachute Payment clubs in the Championship in the days before Wagner, they meant we couldn't compete with clubs that were "transitioning from EPL to EFL income streams while carrying committed costs such as players on contracts that EFL incomes alone would otherwise have no chance of meeting"? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 14, 2020 19:10:14 GMT 1
Am just thinking if the club are spending money on Canalside, a facility it does not own but will rent from DH , can I ask why ? Could be a number of reasons, maybe DH said, tell you what, give me £20m back that you owe me and I'm build a better facility. Or, DH bought the land and they agreed a much lower than market rate rental for the club if they invested. If the club get the facilities they want at low rent, what's the affirmative, a portacabin at Storthes Hall? |
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 14, 2020 19:18:37 GMT 1
Eh, No way was Davy sticking 7M in the kitty a season to prop us up,, Hoyle took over and increased the budget to make us competitive.
Davy only let us spend what we were earning, We were nigh on self sufficient, shite but nigh on self sufficient.
The new chairman has taken over and has an unsustainable wage bill to sort asap, If the Cowleys wand stops waving magic and we suffer another relegation,, Well, Its not worth thinking about at the moment.
We have our shared in the stadium back, plus a bigger say in how it is run. We have a much better pitch to play on fit a start We have a much supperior training facility, which will be better still soon. We have a squad of players with £Ms not £ks (granted we need to get rid of some of them ASAP _ but what ever we get for them will be money in the kitty to invest / run the club) Our position is not that unusual for a relegated club. Look at Stoke (who spent more last season than the year before, but just warned fans not to expect many incoming because if FFP this month) sundsrland, wolves, Man C, Norwich, Soton. Bkackburn. All went down to Div 1 after been relegated from the Prem. Most of them in fincial trouble necause they gambled and lost. We didn’t gamble and seemingly have still lost. |
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Post by andyeastleake on Jan 14, 2020 19:29:11 GMT 1
If DH was a true supporter of this club, there is no way he would put the club back decades just to get his buck back. I find that outcome beyond strange as will any town fan with a slight passion for this club. It’s in our blood. How do you square this comment with the fact that at the start of 2016/17 season he'd put in of the order of £40 million into the club without (in most people's opinion) much liklihood of ever getting it back? Surely only a "true supporter" would do that. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 14, 2020 19:48:19 GMT 1
If DH was a true supporter of this club, there is no way he would put the club back decades just to get his buck back. I find that outcome beyond strange as will any town fan with a slight passion for this club. It’s in our blood. How do you square this comment with the fact that at the start of 2016/17 season he'd put in of the order of £40 million into the club without (in most people's opinion) much liklihood of ever getting it back? Surely only a "true supporter" would do that. Could of bought my wife a massive house, matters shit today if I take it back and she goes back to her council house. Anyway DH wouldn’t stitch us up so this doesn’t matter. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jan 14, 2020 19:53:15 GMT 1
My wife used to think I was a lliving legend also. USED TO !!!!
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King Curtis
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Post by King Curtis on Jan 14, 2020 20:44:56 GMT 1
Ok Allan, You said yourself you're good with numbers. What are Diakhaby and Mbenza worth combined?  Price is determined by the demand and supply curves, .......................so about £3. I think that's generous. I had a Greggs Steak Bake for Lunch today for a measly £1.50 and it gave me more enjoyment in those few minutes than those fraudsters have for Town. *It was a proper Steak Bake and not one of those new vegan monstrosities. |
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King Curtis
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Post by King Curtis on Jan 14, 2020 20:45:55 GMT 1
Perhaps there's going to be a big twist and Dean is going to use a large chunk of the cash he is getting back to purchase the stadium and leave it in Huddersfield Town's name forever Dream on. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 20:56:07 GMT 1
Whatever has gone on and continues to do so, the club, Big Phil and the Cowleys need our support more than ever.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Jan 14, 2020 21:01:09 GMT 1
We've currently got a squad of players that was signed for approximately £80 million on transfer fees alone since promotion in 2017.
- DH didnt go out and pick those players, he can't be held account for how shite they've been.
Throwing more money at it would guarantee nowt. Look at Stoke.
We've currently got a wage budget that is more than twice the wage budget we had in 2017.
DH loaned Huddersfield Town £50 million, he did say he never expected to get that back but due to his investment, decisions and work behind the scenes put the Club and himself in a position where that was possible.
He still leaves a Club that has far more value and assets than the one he bought and owned for 10 years.
IF he has taken money from the Club than it was only money that was owed to him anyway.
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Post by Essex Terrier on Jan 14, 2020 21:08:57 GMT 1
We've currently got a squad of players that was signed for approximately £80 million on transfer fees alone since promotion in 2017. - DH didnt go out and pick those players, he can't be held account for how shite they've been. Throwing more money at it would guarantee nowt. Look at Stoke. We've currently got a wage budget that is more than twice the wage budget we had in 2017. DH loaned Huddersfield Town £50 million, he did say he never expected to get that back but due to his investment, decisions and work behind the scenes put the Club and himself in a position where that was possible. He still leaves a Club that has far more value and assets than the one he bought and owned for 10 years. IF he has taken money from the Club than it was only money that was owed to him anyway. DH appointed the people who signed the players. He hears some responsibility. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Jan 14, 2020 21:15:20 GMT 1
We've currently got a squad of players that was signed for approximately £80 million on transfer fees alone since promotion in 2017. - DH didnt go out and pick those players, he can't be held account for how shite they've been. Throwing more money at it would guarantee nowt. Look at Stoke. We've currently got a wage budget that is more than twice the wage budget we had in 2017. DH loaned Huddersfield Town £50 million, he did say he never expected to get that back but due to his investment, decisions and work behind the scenes put the Club and himself in a position where that was possible. He still leaves a Club that has far more value and assets than the one he bought and owned for 10 years. IF he has taken money from the Club than it was only money that was owed to him anyway. DH appointed the people who signed the players. He hears some responsibility. Fair comment. Suppose if I'm to say that it was down to him that we got into a position where we were given the Prem TV money etc, its only right he shoulders responsibility for the pitfalls too. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jan 14, 2020 21:19:37 GMT 1
Whatever has gone on and continues to do so, the club, Big Phil and the Cowleys need our support more than ever. They always get my support, that’s why I’m making a 450 mile round trip this weekend to watch them. It’s a two-way street though; as supporters we have no entitlement to knowing everything about the finances, but they need to be straightforward and honest with the fans and not take us for granted. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 21:33:35 GMT 1
Whatever has gone on and continues to do so, the club, Big Phil and the Cowleys need our support more than ever. They always get my support, that’s why I’m making a 450 mile round trip this weekend to watch them. It’s a two-way street though; as supporters we have no entitlement to knowing everything about the finances, but they need to be straightforward and honest with the fans and not take us for granted. Absolutely. I fear that PH has been handed a poisoned chalice that only a fan who dreamed of owning us would contemplate taking on. Last week Cowley said that PH was doing all he could to get us out of the ‘mess’ we are in. The gagging order on the terms of the sale has tied his hands and he’s taking the blame as a result. Blaming the current regime will achieve bugger all. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 14, 2020 21:42:39 GMT 1
DH appointed the people who signed the players. He hears some responsibility. Fair comment. Suppose if I'm to say that it was down to him that we got into a position where we were given the Prem TV money etc, its only right he shoulders responsibility for the pitfalls too. It was about 95% David Wagner as to why we go to the Premier League. Dean Hoyle provided a bottom 3 budget and nobody else was getting us promoted on that. That's not a complaint btw. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 14, 2020 22:08:38 GMT 1
Fair comment. Suppose if I'm to say that it was down to him that we got into a position where we were given the Prem TV money etc, its only right he shoulders responsibility for the pitfalls too. It was about 95% David Wagner as to why we go to the Premier League. Dean Hoyle provided a bottom 3 budget and nobody else was getting us promoted on that. That's not a complaint btw. The year we went up, he did actually invest more than in previous years after Wagner had instilled some confidence that he knew what he was doing the year before. I sense that this season is very much a survive and regroup season and then have a few seasons seasons where we should be able to establish ourselves. But survival and reducing the big earners from the books is not as simple as it is in a computer game. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Jan 14, 2020 22:20:36 GMT 1
It was about 95% David Wagner as to why we go to the Premier League. Dean Hoyle provided a bottom 3 budget and nobody else was getting us promoted on that. That's not a complaint btw. I sense that this season is very much a survive and regroup season and then have a few seasons seasons where we should be able to establish ourselves. But survival and reducing the big earners from the books is not as simple as it is in a computer game. Hmm, i'm not sure. We just spent all the money we accumulated the year before from the sales of Coady/Smithies/Butterfield etc. The wage bill was actually lower if I remember correctly. Again, I'm not complaining, the budget was what he was prepared to lob in and that's fine, my point is just that DH the chairman in 2016/17 did very little different to the DH the chairman between 2012 and 2015, when we were crap. I think part of our problems post 2017 is that people within HTFC started to believe their own hype when in reality one bloke had dragged us to the top flight and kept us there, imo. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jan 14, 2020 22:20:42 GMT 1
It was about 95% David Wagner as to why we go to the Premier League. Dean Hoyle provided a bottom 3 budget and nobody else was getting us promoted on that. That's not a complaint btw. The year we went up, he did actually invest more than in previous years after Wagner had instilled some confidence that he knew what he was doing the year before. I sense that this season is very much a survive and regroup season and then have a few seasons seasons where we should be able to establish ourselves. But survival and reducing the big earners from the books is not as simple as it is in a computer game. But it also shouldn't have been anywhere near as difficult as we have made it We came down with the smallest wage bill relative to parachute payments in the history of the Premier League thanks to loads being out of contract and the wage reduction across the whole squad. We were only really left with 5 or 6 really high earners (by our standards) and one them, Mooy, went out on loan with his full wages being covered. In normal circumstances, a club in such a position should have been well placed to invest and make a good go of bouncing straight back. Instead we were hamstrung by Dean recalling his loans over a very short period and now it's very much in the balance as to whether we'll stay up |
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