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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:30:55 GMT 1
I've seen the video where Dean makes the comment about AD being Wagner's number one target, but can't find it anywhere now. Mind you, it was on the examiner website - so no surprises there. The other bit in that article not circled "Recruitment come up with the players, David has his ideas and they all go in the hopper to be considered in detail" So Wagner says. I want some pacey wingers like Adama Traore Recruitment give him a list of crap wingers and say take your pick from that lot Diakhaby may have been first choice ... of a list including Mbenza and Limbonde (who was subsequently dreadful for Nantes) Then the money men agreed the inflated fees
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 17:33:07 GMT 1
The other bit in that article not circled "Recruitment come up with the players, David has his ideas and they all go in the hopper to be considered in detail" So Wagner says. I want some pacey wingers like Adama Traore Recruitment give him a list of crap wingers and say take your pick from that lot Diakhaby may have been first choice ... of a list including Mbenza and Limbonde (who was subsequently dreadful on Nantes and questioned by the Police over his transfer) Then the money men agreed the inflated fees So Wagner didn't sign any of the players in the promotion season then?
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 16, 2020 17:36:08 GMT 1
Has it occurred to anyone that we couldn’t attract the players we wanted because, they didn’t want to play for us? Didn’t believe in the manager? Didn’t like our style? Thought our facilities were shit? Or had other offers that appealed more?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:36:34 GMT 1
The other bit in that article not circled "Recruitment come up with the players, David has his ideas and they all go in the hopper to be considered in detail" So Wagner says. I want some pacey wingers like Adama Traore Recruitment give him a list of crap wingers and say take your pick from that lot Diakhaby may have been first choice ... of a list including Mbenza and Limbonde (who was subsequently dreadful on Nantes and questioned by the Police over his transfer) Then the money men agreed the inflated fees So Wagner didn't sign any of the players in the promotion season then? Key difference being Webber drew up the shortlist - and he knows how to spot a player. Webber left in March 2017 so it's probable IMO some of the summer 2017 targets also had his fingerprints on them Also, in 2016 on the Mooy deal Dean Hoyle has said (I think it was in Underdog) Wagner wasn't going to consider him and needed persuading
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Post by El Mel on Jul 16, 2020 17:38:38 GMT 1
Best winger we had under Wagner?
VLP.
Wagner fked him off.
Case closed.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:40:54 GMT 1
Has it occurred to anyone that we couldn’t attract the players we wanted because, they didn’t want to play for us? Didn’t believe in the manager? Didn’t like our style? Thought our facilities were shit? Or had other offers that appealed more? Fully agree we'd literally be the last choice of any player who could get a PL move - so it certainly wouldn't be easy The trouble is we've signed players for huge money who are not even good enough for the Championsip
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:42:10 GMT 1
Has it occurred to anyone that we couldn’t attract the players we wanted because, they didn’t want to play for us? Didn’t believe in the manager? Didn’t like our style? Thought our facilities were shit? Or had other offers that appealed more? Fully agree we'd literally be the last choice of any player who could get a PL move - so it certainly wouldn't be easy The trouble is we've signed players for huge money who are not even good enough for the Championsip Absolutely.
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Post by joburgjon on Jul 16, 2020 17:44:50 GMT 1
No, they don't. Your vision of what a Head Coach or Manager does is Warnock in about 1994. They might bring a couple of analysts with them as Cowley did from Lincoln but not scouts. Might still be like that for a few of the old school managers, particularly in L2 and below, but its not the norm up here. Disagree totally. Of course they do. Scouts are part of the managers team and as such they'll have a big say in who the club employs, especially by the time theyve been at a club 2 1/2 years. Not talking about the local blokes who watch Meltham U12s, but the key blokes who the manager needs to trust and rely on to scout foreign leagues. Unfortunately Captain you are wrong in this instance. I agree with a lot of what you say and actually like a lot of what you post. But you are definitely incorrect here. Scouts and the recruitment team are employed by the club. Do you really think that clubs change their first team scouting and recruitment teams everytime they change managers / Head Coaches. No they don't. Managers / Head Coaches don't have much of a say in whose in those Recruitment and Scouting teams. They can naturally express concerns around the quality of the players the recruitment team are bringing to the table. Some Managers will bring a Head Scouts as part of there team. Or as someone else said Analysts.
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 16, 2020 17:45:50 GMT 1
Has it occurred to anyone that we couldn’t attract the players we wanted because, they didn’t want to play for us? Didn’t believe in the manager? Didn’t like our style? Thought our facilities were shit? Or had other offers that appealed more? Fully agree we'd literally be the last choice of any player who could get a PL move - so it certainly wouldn't be easy The trouble is we've signed players for huge money who are not even good enough for the Championsip Not sure we can say that, we haven’t managed to build a team or style is our main issue this year I think. I think someone could get a tune out of the current bunch, under different circumstances. But it was always gonna be a tough ask for the Cowleys with our chronic losing mentality and the head start we’d given everybody else.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 18:01:23 GMT 1
Fully agree we'd literally be the last choice of any player who could get a PL move - so it certainly wouldn't be easy The trouble is we've signed players for huge money who are not even good enough for the Championsip Not sure we can say that, we haven’t managed to build a team or style is our main issue this year I think. I think someone could get a tune out of the current bunch, under different circumstances. But it was always gonna be a tough ask for the Cowleys with our chronic losing mentality and the head start we’d given everybody else. Should clarify I'm not anti Dean Hoyle - he was responsible for memories I'll cherish for a lifetime However, it's obvious there was massive errors in that summer and we'll be feeling the effects for several years. I just think they signed very poor players and worse poor characters We were 2nd favourities with the bookies to go down - relegation was always the likeliest outcome Cardiff (the favourities for relegation), followed Burnley's proven model and went for players established in the English game, they came down and are in the play offs now. We choose to punt the house on unknowns hoping some would work out and increase in value - none of them did. They don't want to play for a second division side at a club in a Northern Mill Town - it doesn't matter who the manager is they'd struggle to get a tune from them
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Post by royrace on Jul 16, 2020 18:20:27 GMT 1
Also Mbenza was our number one target all summer according to Dean, it was obvious at the time that was complete BS too. You have a team of highly paid professionals and scouts specialising in recruitment and because the list, data, intelligence or whatever they supply to the manager is massively flawed its still the managers fault because he had the final say? Sorry but that's bollocks, same as its bollocks in any other organisation. You have to be able to trust the people you're paying to do the actual work. Wagner doesn't have the time to do due diligence on Adama Diakhaby and work out whether he's worth £8M. If he did you may as well sack the rest of them and save their salaries. Its a massive cop out and disingenuous for anyone at the club to trot out the line that Wagner had the final say on all transfers IMO but its obviously the official line along with 'wrong players not bad players'. Have it your way, then. Yes. You're obviously right. Be happy. Just my opinion I'm posting on a forum full of opinions, we're all allowed one I am happy thanks, very happy Not sure why disagreeing with something someone put on a messageboard would make me appear to be unhappy
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Post by royrace on Jul 16, 2020 18:26:08 GMT 1
Have it your way, then. Yes. You're obviously right. Be happy. Yes Roger, I can't even be arsed responding to him. "Yes your honour, I've got it wrong but I'm going to convince you I was right". Sorry I hadn't realised that little snippet you posted on this topic had rendered the case closed
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 18:27:59 GMT 1
Yes Roger, I can't even be arsed responding to him. "Yes your honour, I've got it wrong but I'm going to convince you I was right". Sorry I hadn't realised that little snippet you posted on this topic had rendered the case closed Yeah like you said, Dean Hoyle was lying. Even though he had no reason to lie, he was still lying
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 18:30:54 GMT 1
Did he actually bring him in though. Do we know this is correct or are we assuming it to be correct I've not seen it anywhere where it says Warner asked or told the club to bring him in. I'm not saying that he didn't. Just that I've never seen or heard the club say Wagner wanted or requested Rebbe. I've only ever seen it written on here Yes he did. A former Town player, who I speak to occasionally, wanted the job of Head of Football operations (or whatever it was at the time) and approached Dean Hoyle when the job was still vacant. Hoyle told the former Town player that the job was no longer vacant as "Wagner has got his man". This same player also told me that we'd get relegated before a ball was kicked as the players we'd signed were shite.
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Post by royrace on Jul 16, 2020 18:42:19 GMT 1
Sorry I hadn't realised that little snippet you posted on this topic had rendered the case closed Yeah like you said, Dean Hoyle was lying. Even though he had no reason to lie, he was still lying Do you think Mbenza was the clubs number one transfer target that summer? Maybe you can confirm that one too? Be interesting to know.
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 19:34:57 GMT 1
Yeah like you said, Dean Hoyle was lying. Even though he had no reason to lie, he was still lying Do you think Mbenza was the clubs number one transfer target that summer? Maybe you can confirm that one too? Be interesting to know. I just posted an interview with the Chairman. The chairman who's shit everyone would have eaten two years ago. Now he's a "liar".
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 19:52:21 GMT 1
Best winger we had under Wagner? VLP. Wagner fked him off. Case closed.
Not really for Footballing reasons though was it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 20:00:14 GMT 1
Did he actually bring him in though. Do we know this is correct or are we assuming it to be correct I've not seen it anywhere where it says Warner asked or told the club to bring him in. I'm not saying that he didn't. Just that I've never seen or heard the club say Wagner wanted or requested Rebbe. I've only ever seen it written on here Yes he did. A former Town player, who I speak to occasionally, wanted the job of Head of Football operations (or whatever it was at the time) and approached Dean Hoyle when the job was still vacant. Hoyle told the former Town player that the job was no longer vacant as "Wagner has got his man". This same player also told me that we'd get relegated before a ball was kicked as the players we'd signed were shite.
Fred Robinson has never mentioned to me that he fancied the job, So it cant be him, Didn't they fancy applying any other time, We have probably had longer spells without a HOF than we have had with one.
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 20:03:23 GMT 1
Yes he did. A former Town player, who I speak to occasionally, wanted the job of Head of Football operations (or whatever it was at the time) and approached Dean Hoyle when the job was still vacant. Hoyle told the former Town player that the job was no longer vacant as "Wagner has got his man". This same player also told me that we'd get relegated before a ball was kicked as the players we'd signed were shite.
Fred Robinson has never mentioned to me that he fancied the job, So it cant be him, Didn't they fancy applying any other time, We have probably had longer spells without a HOF than we have had with one.
Not Fred, although I do speak to him occasionally too. I've no idea if they applied any other time.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 16, 2020 20:08:22 GMT 1
Disagree totally. Of course they do. Scouts are part of the managers team and as such they'll have a big say in who the club employs, especially by the time theyve been at a club 2 1/2 years. Not talking about the local blokes who watch Meltham U12s, but the key blokes who the manager needs to trust and rely on to scout foreign leagues. Unfortunately Captain you are wrong in this instance. I agree with a lot of what you say and actually like a lot of what you post. But you are definitely incorrect here. Scouts and the recruitment team are employed by the club. Do you really think that clubs change their first team scouting and recruitment teams everytime they change managers / Head Coaches. No they don't. Managers / Head Coaches don't have much of a say in whose in those Recruitment and Scouting teams. They can naturally express concerns around the quality of the players the recruitment team are bringing to the table. Some Managers will bring a Head Scouts as part of there team. Or as someone else said Analysts. Yes of course theyre employed by the club. And much like a manager will take his own coaches with him when he moves club ( who are also employed by the club ) , he could very well take a particular scout he has successfully worked with aswell. Youre last line agrees with that. To be honest in this case I doubt we even had much , if any, of a european scouting network in place prior to Wagner joining us. He probably set up what we had.
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 20:10:32 GMT 1
Unfortunately Captain you are wrong in this instance. I agree with a lot of what you say and actually like a lot of what you post. But you are definitely incorrect here. Scouts and the recruitment team are employed by the club. Do you really think that clubs change their first team scouting and recruitment teams everytime they change managers / Head Coaches. No they don't. Managers / Head Coaches don't have much of a say in whose in those Recruitment and Scouting teams. They can naturally express concerns around the quality of the players the recruitment team are bringing to the table. Some Managers will bring a Head Scouts as part of there team. Or as someone else said Analysts. Yes of course theyre employed by the club. And much like a manager will take his own coaches with him when he moves club ( who are also employed by the club ) , he could very well take a particular scout he has successfully worked with aswell. Youre last line agrees with that. To be honest in this case I doubt we even had much , if any, of a european scouting network in place prior to Wagner joining us. He probably set up what we had. We had one in the late 90s under Bruce but that was long gone by the time Wagner arrived.
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Post by El Mel on Jul 16, 2020 20:17:58 GMT 1
Best winger we had under Wagner? VLP. Wagner fked him off. Case closed.
Not really for Footballing reasons though was it.
Dunno. I'd have thought signing or keeping footballers for footballing reasons would be a given though. Maybe we signed Diakhaby cos he told Wagner he could knock up a mean French Toast. Guess we will never know.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 16, 2020 20:22:15 GMT 1
I bet he does a great dogs dinner.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 16, 2020 20:34:25 GMT 1
Did he actually bring him in though. Do we know this is correct or are we assuming it to be correct I've not seen it anywhere where it says Warner asked or told the club to bring him in. I'm not saying that he didn't. Just that I've never seen or heard the club say Wagner wanted or requested Rebbe. I've only ever seen it written on here Yes he did. A former Town player, who I speak to occasionally, wanted the job of Head of Football operations (or whatever it was at the time) and approached Dean Hoyle when the job was still vacant. Hoyle told the former Town player that the job was no longer vacant as "Wagner has got his man". This same player also told me that we'd get relegated before a ball was kicked as the players we'd signed were shite. To be fair, most of us on here knew the signings were shit and that we'd get relegated.
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Post by Paphos Terrier on Jul 16, 2020 20:35:53 GMT 1
VLP was sent to the equivalent of Hell, Middlesbrough and it wasn't for knocking up French toast!!!!
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 20:38:37 GMT 1
Yes he did. A former Town player, who I speak to occasionally, wanted the job of Head of Football operations (or whatever it was at the time) and approached Dean Hoyle when the job was still vacant. Hoyle told the former Town player that the job was no longer vacant as "Wagner has got his man". This same player also told me that we'd get relegated before a ball was kicked as the players we'd signed were shite. To be fair, most of us on here knew the signings were shit and that we'd get relegated. Before the season started? I doubt it.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 16, 2020 20:41:58 GMT 1
To be fair, most of us on here knew the signings were shit and that we'd get relegated. Before the season started? I doubt it. I did moot the idea back on here prior to the Derby game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 20:49:51 GMT 1
Before the season started? I doubt it. I did moot the idea back on here prior to the Derby game.
To be fair you do tend to always fear the worst.
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Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 21:01:43 GMT 1
Before the season started? I doubt it. I did moot the idea back on here prior to the Derby game. I'm talking about last season?
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Jul 16, 2020 21:06:38 GMT 1
I did moot the idea back on here prior to the Derby game.
To be fair you do tend to always fear the worst.
With good reason.
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