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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 10:10:58 GMT 1
Whilst we're on the subject of ex players, its a shame that Lee Johnson was binned by Bristol City as Palmer wasn't getting a sniff under him, as much as I recognise he's injured a lot now that first 6 months under Wagner was something else, people go on about ESR but I found Palmer equally as exciting.
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Post by VLP Fan Club on Aug 7, 2020 10:17:47 GMT 1
Whilst we're on the subject of ex players, its a shame that Lee Johnson was binned by Bristol City as Palmer wasn't getting a sniff under him, as much as I recognise he's injured a lot now that first 6 months under Wagner was something else, people go on about ESR but I found Palmer equally as exciting. Absolutely loved Kasey Palmer, never forget seeing the training photos of him sat with Wagner in Marbella before the play off final - got a real sense of 'Yes this is our year' just from seeing him back with the team.  |
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Post by Uddersfield on Aug 7, 2020 10:17:48 GMT 1
Whilst we're on the subject of ex players, its a shame that Lee Johnson was binned by Bristol City as Palmer wasn't getting a sniff under him, as much as I recognise he's injured a lot now that first 6 months under Wagner was something else, people go on about ESR but I found Palmer equally as exciting. Bit random but I remember when we played Port Vale and we had a false 9 up top with Palmer, Lolley, Izzy Brown and Jack Payne. We took the piss whole game. Palmer was unplayable - although it was only Vale. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 7, 2020 11:01:23 GMT 1
Whilst we're on the subject of ex players, its a shame that Lee Johnson was binned by Bristol City as Palmer wasn't getting a sniff under him, as much as I recognise he's injured a lot now that first 6 months under Wagner was something else, people go on about ESR but I found Palmer equally as exciting. Absolutely loved Kasey Palmer, never forget seeing the training photos of him sat with Wagner in Marbella before the play off final - got a real sense of 'Yes this is our year' just from seeing him back with the team. View AttachmentThat’s a great pic. Has there been any Town manager with a greater aura than Wagner? |
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Post by dirtysteve on Aug 7, 2020 11:16:16 GMT 1
So we are replacing Karlan Grant with The Nando's Kid? oh well I suppose he'll be better out wide. Danny Ward's all round game is definitely Championship quality. Karlan Grant's is league one at best. It all comes down to whether you're prepared to damage the overall cohesiveness of your play in order to keep his goals in the team. Put a striker up there who can actually control it and bring others in to play and you might find that other players chip in with more than enough goals to cover those that you've lost by Grant not being in the side. We surrendered possession so easily up that end of the pitch all season whether it was Mounie, Grant or Campbell. Campbell probably the best of the three at holding it up but he spends most of his time on the pitch giving away free kicks Grant scores 19 this season, in a shite team that create pretty much naff all. I’d think that given more opportunities and playing him in his natural position he’d score more than that. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 11:29:06 GMT 1
Can we not offer Bristol some sort of Pritchard for Palmer deal, neither working out at current sides but both have bags of ability. Surely out transfer committee should be all over deals like that (providing KP would comeback)
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Post by bigtruck on Aug 7, 2020 11:41:34 GMT 1
Can we not offer Bristol some sort of Pritchard for Palmer deal, neither working out at current sides but both have bags of ability. Surely out transfer committee should be all over deals like that (providing KP would comeback) I'm not sure Palmer fits in a 4-3-3 though. Pritchards two best games for us were playing on the left of a front 3. As a 10 i'd have palmer before pritchard every day, I'd have Izzy before both, but don't think he's the player we need. |
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Post by ringdisco on Aug 7, 2020 11:45:35 GMT 1
The transfer threads never fail in putting me to sleep.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2020 11:47:34 GMT 1
See I think he might fit in there, midfield 3 of O'Brien Hogg Palmer as an 8/10 would work quite well, Ward Mounie/young striker on loan and a new winger. Again all a bit pointless since we aren't even linked but do hope we are looking at that sort of player from the likes of Chelsea again.
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Post by bigtruck on Aug 7, 2020 11:58:39 GMT 1
See I think he might fit in there, midfield 3 of O'Brien Hogg Palmer as an 8/10 would work quite well, Ward Mounie/young striker on loan and a new winger. Again all a bit pointless since we aren't even linked but do hope we are looking at that sort of player from the likes of Chelsea again. Get the point of him as an 8, but if we are going with a 433, i think 2 of the 3 will be Hogg and OBrien or Hogg and Bacuna, which for me means the 3rd has to be a more "cultured" midfielder in the Mooy, Drinkwater kind of vain. Not sure who would fit that role as far as transfers are concerned. Although ,IMO, if Bacuna can work on his technique, i think he could easily fill the Hogg role and have the added ability of being a creative pivot akin to Phillips at Leeds which may then open the 3rd midfielder option to someone more dynamic like a Palmer/Pritchard/Izzy I've been working all this out on my little magnetic whiteboard all morning  |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 7, 2020 12:06:27 GMT 1
See I think he might fit in there, midfield 3 of O'Brien Hogg Palmer as an 8/10 would work quite well, Ward Mounie/young striker on loan and a new winger. Again all a bit pointless since we aren't even linked but do hope we are looking at that sort of player from the likes of Chelsea again. 8/ 10? Oh no Cowley speak is back. |
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 7, 2020 12:20:32 GMT 1
Danny Ward's all round game is definitely Championship quality. Karlan Grant's is league one at best. It all comes down to whether you're prepared to damage the overall cohesiveness of your play in order to keep his goals in the team. Put a striker up there who can actually control it and bring others in to play and you might find that other players chip in with more than enough goals to cover those that you've lost by Grant not being in the side. We surrendered possession so easily up that end of the pitch all season whether it was Mounie, Grant or Campbell. Campbell probably the best of the three at holding it up but he spends most of his time on the pitch giving away free kicks Grant scores 19 this season, in a shite team that create pretty much naff all. I’d think that given more opportunities and playing him in his natural position he’d score more than that. What is his natural position because he can't play on his own up front and he's not looked any better on the few occasions we've had 2 up top. How many of the 19 were pens, I think he's scored about 4 from open play since Xmas. |
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Post by corberanwatch on Aug 7, 2020 12:25:33 GMT 1
I understand that these Leeds youngsters may be decent. But if they were that good, why haven't they played for Leeds this season? We are in the same division that they have just been in, so I'm of the opinion that if they are no good for Leeds first team squad, they aren't good enough for ours. Some will probably shoot me down, but hey ho I understand the sentiment here, but I think you're oversimplifying it. Firstly, some of the players we are likely to send out on loan HAVE played for us, played well, and Bielsa and Leeds fans alike have remarked how they'd like to be able to have them play more regularly. The reason they haven't played is a little more than 'they're aren't good enough for the first team'. It's true to say they haven't been able to force their way into the first team as a regular starter, however that's largely down to 2 things. 1) Bielsa's loyalty to his regular starters. This can be to a fault, and he's been criticised by the fanbase at times over the last 2 years. 2) The players they are up against. It's very difficult to say the players that have been picked weren't up to the job. Leeds won the league by 10 points, and such is the dominance in the underlying stats, it's easy to make a case that says Leeds should have won the league by a lot more. You can dispute that, but winning the league by 10 points is a cold hard fact. So not quite good enough to force their way into a team that won the league by 10 points? Maybe. But I think that is different to being not good enough to do really well in the championship. And of course they are another year older and still young so you'd expect they are getting better all the time. I mentioned the players I'd think likely to go out on loan in the Leigh Bromby thread, but for a couple of examples Robbie Gotts. Gotts was academy player of the year this year as Leeds were second in the U23 league (on PPG). Gotts has played for the first team a couple of times, with him showing up well (particularly against Arsenal) and earning lots of praise from Bielsa. Gotts' competition for a spot has come in the form of; -Adam Forshaw (arguably our best performer until his injury) -Jamie Shackelton (replaced Forshaw and has more first team experience. Again excellent until he himself was injured) -Stuart Dallas (moved inside when Shackleton was injured. Dallas was voted the players player of the year this year and has had his best season to date. Moving him inside also allowed us to bring Alioski back into the first team, who himself has had an excellent season for us) -Mateusz Klich (Pablo Hernandez moved in off the wing in the second half of the season, which meant Gotts was competing with Klich. Kilich has been a key performer for Leeds, and played every game under Bielsa, with the exception of being hung over for the Derby county game, where Shackleton played, scored, and set a season high metres ran stat for any leeds player.) So Robbie Gotts has been competing with 4 players who all have more first team experience and have all had excellent seasons. Again, more of a reflection of his competition that Gotts alone. Mateusz Bogusz. Has only made the bench this season, but was used in preason and showed up really well. Only 18, so again light on experience. Bogusz's competition has been; - Mateusz Klich (see above) - Pablo Hernandez (*shrugs*) - Tyler Roberts (Roberts started at 10 post lockdown when Hernandez was injured. It was a position he filled well last year, and once again looked really sharp in that position. It was remarked by the players that Roberts had shown up in training better than anyone else upon the return to action) So once again, Bogusz competing with more experienced players who have all played well. I'm not going to go through the rest I put on that thread, other than to say they have similar stories and they are highly thought of. I really do understand the sentiment, and had Leeds scrapped it out for 6th and gone up via the playoffs, it would hold more water for me. But Leeds finished 23 points better than that, 10 better than anyone else, so personally I wouldn't be so dismissive of players who can't get a game in a good side. I don't actually like the loan system as all the power sits with the parent club, so I'd abolish it entirely and force teams to develop and use their own squad when needed, and sell their players when they cant give them the football they want. That way talent would trickle down/spread out rather than being hoarded. But it is what it is, and unless you've got pots of money, picking off players who cant get games elsewhere (and the loan market is part of that) is what smart recruitment looks like. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 7, 2020 13:56:11 GMT 1
Danny Ward's all round game is definitely Championship quality. Karlan Grant's is league one at best. It all comes down to whether you're prepared to damage the overall cohesiveness of your play in order to keep his goals in the team. Put a striker up there who can actually control it and bring others in to play and you might find that other players chip in with more than enough goals to cover those that you've lost by Grant not being in the side. We surrendered possession so easily up that end of the pitch all season whether it was Mounie, Grant or Campbell. Campbell probably the best of the three at holding it up but he spends most of his time on the pitch giving away free kicks Grant scores 19 this season, in a shite team that create pretty much naff all. I’d think that given more opportunities and playing him in his natural position he’d score more than that. What do you think his natural position is? It certainly isn't at the spearhead of the attack. Be interesting to see where he'd fit in a 4:1:4:1, although I don't think we will get to. |
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Post by arry11 on Aug 7, 2020 15:27:50 GMT 1
Grant is capable of playing anywhere in attack but best suited playing wider than a central striker he loves playing in the spaces that occur wider.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 7, 2020 17:21:23 GMT 1
Grant is capable of playing anywhere in attack but best suited playing wider than a central striker he loves playing in the spaces that occur wider. I'm not trying to bash him, because overall he's done really well for us. However, most of our worst performances (e.g. first half Wigan away) were when he was the central striker. He is not a central striker in a team that plays one up top. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 7, 2020 20:50:09 GMT 1
See I think he might fit in there, midfield 3 of O'Brien Hogg Palmer as an 8/10 would work quite well, Ward Mounie/young striker on loan and a new winger. Again all a bit pointless since we aren't even linked but do hope we are looking at that sort of player from the likes of Chelsea again. Get the point of him as an 8, but if we are going with a 433, i think 2 of the 3 will be Hogg and OBrien or Hogg and Bacuna, which for me means the 3rd has to be a more "cultured" midfielder in the Mooy, Drinkwater kind of vain. Not sure who would fit that role as far as transfers are concerned. Although ,IMO, if Bacuna can work on his technique, i think he could easily fill the Hogg role and have the added ability of being a creative pivot akin to Phillips at Leeds which may then open the 3rd midfielder option to someone more dynamic like a Palmer/Pritchard/Izzy I've been working all this out on my little magnetic whiteboard all morning Bacuna has no technique problem....just a brain malfunction. One of the most natural ball players we have ever had. |
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Post by bigtruck on Aug 7, 2020 21:34:43 GMT 1
Get the point of him as an 8, but if we are going with a 433, i think 2 of the 3 will be Hogg and OBrien or Hogg and Bacuna, which for me means the 3rd has to be a more "cultured" midfielder in the Mooy, Drinkwater kind of vain. Not sure who would fit that role as far as transfers are concerned. Although ,IMO, if Bacuna can work on his technique, i think he could easily fill the Hogg role and have the added ability of being a creative pivot akin to Phillips at Leeds which may then open the 3rd midfielder option to someone more dynamic like a Palmer/Pritchard/Izzy I've been working all this out on my little magnetic whiteboard all morning Bacuna has no technique problem....just a brain malfunction. One of the most natural ball players we have ever had. Yeah technique is probably the wrong choice of word. Discipline in the more general sense of the word would be better. There’s definitely a baller in there |
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Post by arry11 on Aug 7, 2020 23:47:47 GMT 1
Grant is capable of playing anywhere in attack but best suited playing wider than a central striker he loves playing in the spaces that occur wider. I'm not trying to bash him, because overall he's done really well for us. However, most of our worst performances (e.g. first half Wigan away) were when he was the central striker. He is not a central striker in a team that plays one up top. I'm with you on Grant but sometimes injuries and other issues may leave us with know other alternative but too use him central |
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Post by Mecha Corte on Aug 8, 2020 7:19:22 GMT 1
Get the point of him as an 8, but if we are going with a 433, i think 2 of the 3 will be Hogg and OBrien or Hogg and Bacuna, which for me means the 3rd has to be a more "cultured" midfielder in the Mooy, Drinkwater kind of vain. Not sure who would fit that role as far as transfers are concerned. Although ,IMO, if Bacuna can work on his technique, i think he could easily fill the Hogg role and have the added ability of being a creative pivot akin to Phillips at Leeds which may then open the 3rd midfielder option to someone more dynamic like a Palmer/Pritchard/Izzy I've been working all this out on my little magnetic whiteboard all morning Bacuna has no technique problem....just a brain malfunction. One of the most natural ball players we have ever had. Bacuna, one of the few players who when in possession on the edge of the opponents penalty box, with 3 players closing him down would turn, do a "rabona" pass to the far post for Grant to nod in from 6 yards out, to the huge delight of the crowd. Or against the same team when he's now in possession but on the edge of his own penalty box, hunted down by 3 opponents, try the same "rabona" pass to get out of trouble but gift their centre forward with a calamitous soft goal in doing so. Bags of talent and ability, can score as well but his temperament is so flaky it's untrue, would a Brian Clough have tolerated it, No, he might have changed him to fit in though, not sure a club like ours can afford the risk to reward he offers. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Aug 8, 2020 8:05:00 GMT 1
Bacuna has no technique problem....just a brain malfunction. One of the most natural ball players we have ever had. Bacuna, one of the few players who when in possession on the edge of the opponents penalty box, with 3 players closing him down would turn, do a "rabona" pass to the far post for Grant to nod in from 6 yards out, to the huge delight of the crowd. Or against the same team when he's now in possession but on the edge of his own penalty box, hunted down by 3 opponents, try the same "rabona" pass to get out of trouble but gift their centre forward with a calamitous soft goal in doing so. Bags of talent and ability, can score as well but his temperament is so flaky it's untrue, would a Brian Clough have tolerated it, No, he might have changed him to fit in though, not sure a club like ours can afford the risk to reward he offers. Perhaps you are right. He has so much skill all he wants to do is show-off. Came on recently and did 3 drag backs within 3 minutes in dangerous areas. Cantonaesque as well when he is not on the ball.....OK as a number 9 or 10 but not when in midfield or full-back! |
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Post by Kenny irons on Aug 8, 2020 10:17:50 GMT 1
We have enquired about izzy brown on loan with a view to a permanent.
CC had him at Leeds 23s whilst recovering from the injuries.
Only a enquiry as of yet.
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Post by upthetown on Aug 8, 2020 10:19:20 GMT 1
We have enquired about izzy brown on loan with a view to a permanent. CC had him at Leeds 23s whilst recovering from the injuries. Only a enquiry as of yet. If we can offload Pritchard, Mounie, Mbenza etc I’d be happy with this. Guess he played with Ward at Rotherham too. |
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Post by htfc1908 on Aug 8, 2020 10:22:02 GMT 1
We have enquired about izzy brown on loan with a view to a permanent. CC had him at Leeds 23s whilst recovering from the injuries. Only a enquiry as of yet. I can't see many on here being upset about that if it came to fruition, on 2nd thoughts...... |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 8, 2020 10:35:29 GMT 1
We have enquired about izzy brown on loan with a view to a permanent. CC had him at Leeds 23s whilst recovering from the injuries. Only a enquiry as of yet. If we can offload Pritchard, Mounie, Mbenza etc I’d be happy with this. Guess he played with Ward at Rotherham too. I'm not sure if he has a place in the new set-up, but it really pisses me off when Mounie gets lumped in with this lot. He should not be put anywhere near this cohort. |
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Post by upthetown on Aug 8, 2020 10:39:36 GMT 1
If we can offload Pritchard, Mounie, Mbenza etc I’d be happy with this. Guess he played with Ward at Rotherham too. I'm not sure if he has a place in the new set-up, but it really pisses me off when Mounie gets lumped in with this lot. He should not be put anywhere near this cohort. Mainly because I don’t think he will fit in. He doesn’t have the hold up/lay off ability that I think will be needed. I thought he’d shine at this level but I don’t think he’s the answer. |
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Post by townrwe on Aug 8, 2020 10:53:57 GMT 1
I'm not sure if he has a place in the new set-up, but it really pisses me off when Mounie gets lumped in with this lot. He should not be put anywhere near this cohort. Mainly because I don’t think he will fit in. He doesn’t have the hold up/lay off ability that I think will be needed. I thought he’d shine at this level but I don’t think he’s the answer. Scored goals when given a chance.... virtually no quality into the box. Lumped up to him with 2 sometimes 3 big defenders around him isolated from rest of team.... we need to get someone near him firstly and then get some quality into the box. |
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Post by btwoowah on Aug 8, 2020 11:07:49 GMT 1
Mainly because I don’t think he will fit in. He doesn’t have the hold up/lay off ability that I think will be needed. I thought he’d shine at this level but I don’t think he’s the answer. Scored goals when given a chance.... virtually no quality into the box. Lumped up to him with 2 sometimes 3 big defenders around him isolated from rest of team.... we need to get someone near him firstly and then get some quality into the box. Well, none of that’s going to happen in the 433/4141 high-press system we’re clearly planning on playing. The 9 in that system needs to be ultra mobile and muscular with a great short passing/link-up game. Mounié will be gone or, at worst, a very expensive option C. I agree with others that none of this would be particularly fair on him, but short of completely changing his playing style overnight, I can’t see him playing a significant role next year. |
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 8, 2020 11:59:20 GMT 1
Bacuna, one of the few players who when in possession on the edge of the opponents penalty box, with 3 players closing him down would turn, do a "rabona" pass to the far post for Grant to nod in from 6 yards out, to the huge delight of the crowd. Or against the same team when he's now in possession but on the edge of his own penalty box, hunted down by 3 opponents, try the same "rabona" pass to get out of trouble but gift their centre forward with a calamitous soft goal in doing so. Bags of talent and ability, can score as well but his temperament is so flaky it's untrue, would a Brian Clough have tolerated it, No, he might have changed him to fit in though, not sure a club like ours can afford the risk to reward he offers. Perhaps you are right. He has so much skill all he wants to do is show-off. Came on recently and did 3 drag backs within 3 minutes in dangerous areas. Cantonaesque as well when he is not on the ball.....OK as a number 9 or 10 but not when in midfield or full-back! I hope he isn't, Bacca's the only player we have that I'd gladly pay to watch |
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Post by nicovaesen on Aug 8, 2020 12:03:02 GMT 1
Absolutely loved Kasey Palmer, never forget seeing the training photos of him sat with Wagner in Marbella before the play off final - got a real sense of 'Yes this is our year' just from seeing him back with the team. View AttachmentThat’s a great pic. Has there been any Town manager with a greater aura than Wagner? No |
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