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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 18, 2020 20:53:45 GMT 1
I would keep him yes. Bit of blind faith maybe, but primarily because its not very long ago he was one of the best players in this division. Thats why i think theres a player in there. Mounies technical ability is sunday league level. Its fucking appalling! Think it was the sheff wed game, he tried to control a pretty ordinary ball on his chest. It must have bounced off him 15 foot away. We were just laughing it was so crap. His headed goals are the ones that probably require ability. id imagine nearly all the others were close range tap ins when it happened to fall at his feet. First year he started great at palace and went steadily down hill, but did put in the odd good show along the way. Remember a great goal at West brom. Last season and this season hes just been shit. Theres no sign of him improving. Dont think he looks that bothered to be honest. He doesnt want to score enough. The goal against Blackburn a few months ago had nothing to do with ability? I cant even remember it but if you say it was good ill believe you. isolated moments arent a great way to rate the player. Mbenza put in 2 or 3 superb crosses when he was on loan here. Mounies technical ability is appalling IMO. So clumsy, so slow. cant control it, his passings crap...honestly hes just really poor. Every now and then he'll have a good moment. So would i if i was playing.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Jul 18, 2020 20:59:52 GMT 1
The goal against Blackburn a few months ago had nothing to do with ability? I cant even remember it but if you say it was good ill believe you. isolated moments arent a great way to rate the player. Mbenza put in 2 or 3 superb crosses when he was on loan here. Mounies technical ability is appalling IMO. So clumsy, so slow. cant control it, his passings crap...honestly hes just really poor. Every now and then he'll have a good moment. So would i if i was playing. Haha, of course you don't remember probably our best goal this season from 25 yards that won us what seemed like a very important win at the time. You've still not said what you've seen in Pritchard? There isn't even an isolated moment. It's 3 years since he was good at this level. 3 years ago Chelsea finished 25 and 27 points ahead of City and Liverpool and Sunderland got relegated from the Premier League. We hadn't even got there! A lot has happened in that time surely you're not clinging to then to make out he'll come good?
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crux
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Post by crux on Jul 18, 2020 21:05:52 GMT 1
A couple of things that keep being posted on here.
First, "we're that skint we can't afford to keep Stankovic". You've got to remember that we've already got 4 Centre halves under contract for next season in Stearman, Schindler, Elphick & Edmonds-Green - 5 if you include Kongolo. Even if we were rolling in cash, you couldn't just sign a 6th one hoping you'd manage to get rid of a couple later.
Second, because of FFP we can't just write-off and get rid of players we shipped out on loan to get them out of the club this season. As they're still under contract and we paid a transfer fee, the remaining transfer fees have to paid. Our best hope on some is to get a loan fee equivalent to the transfer fee due for the season - I believe that's what we've done with Sobhi so he's probably not cost us anything so far. There's probably only Kongolo who's really worth more than his remaining transfer fee, however seeing as he's been injured that may not be true.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Jul 18, 2020 21:25:45 GMT 1
A couple of things that keep being posted on here. First, "we're that skint we can't afford to keep Stankovic". You've got to remember that we've already got 4 Centre halves under contract for next season in Stearman, Schindler, Elphick & Edmonds-Green - 5 if you include Kongolo. Even if we were rolling in cash, you couldn't just sign a 6th one hoping you'd manage to get rid of a couple later. Second, because of FFP we can't just write-off and get rid of players we shipped out on loan to get them out of the club this season. As they're still under contract and we paid a transfer fee, the remaining transfer fees have to paid. Our best hope on some is to get a loan fee equivalent to the transfer fee due for the season - I believe that's what we've done with Sobhi so he's probably not cost us anything so far. There's probably only Kongolo who's really worth more than his remaining transfer fee, however seeing as he's been injured that may not be true. Yeah the Stankovic one was tricky and bad timing really. I think in an ideal world we'd have kept him but with having to get Stearman in after Elphicks injury plus having others already in or coming back from loans plus not knowing which division we were going to be in it made things very difficult. I don't think we were in a position to say yes we can definitely offer you this and obviously the player needs to look out for himself. I think Sobhi has so far paid for himself in terms of the loans but others clearly won't. It's certainly not as straight forward as we'd all like in terms of finances, we'll still be due money for some players but I'd imagine we owe a lot more for those we've already bought and that is going to mean a fair bit of wheeling and dealing in terms of trying to sell players for more than we're paying. Names I've seen floating around here like Grabban are not the type of players I'd be expecting us to be able to bring in or be able to attract.
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Post by Porrohman on Jul 18, 2020 21:37:43 GMT 1
The goal against Blackburn a few months ago had nothing to do with ability? I cant even remember it but if you say it was good ill believe you. isolated moments arent a great way to rate the player. Mbenza put in 2 or 3 superb crosses when he was on loan here. Mounies technical ability is appalling IMO. So clumsy, so slow. cant control it, his passings crap...honestly hes just really poor. Every now and then he'll have a good moment. So would i if i was playing. Your assessment of his technical ability just about covers Grants too
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Post by upthetown on Jul 18, 2020 22:13:12 GMT 1
Bugger. Was really hoping we could ditch him. There can never have been a footballer bought for so much money, who had so little basic ability at football. His touch, control , vision and movement is that of a sunday league player. A Sunday League player wouldn't score nine goals in his first season in the Premier League. Wins everything in the air, but lacked service and lost confidence. Not as bad as folk make out. Still only 25, bit of good coaching and a bit of confidence and he could have a decent career. Agreed it's probably best for all concerned if he moves on though. I just don’t see it any more. I want him to succeed but I just don’t see the bravery or will to get in to the right positions or put himself on the line. Granted, we don’t create much. But the crosses that do come on often find him flat footed or in the wrong position. With someone like Boothy I always felt we carried an aerial threat. With Mounié he wins a lot in our box or on halfway but doesn’t do enough in the opposition box for me. Plus his hold up play and passing is average at best. Grant, Campbell and Mounié can all go for me.
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Post by upthetown on Jul 18, 2020 22:13:49 GMT 1
Bugger. Was really hoping we could ditch him. There can never have been a footballer bought for so much money, who had so little basic ability at football. His touch, control , vision and movement is that of a sunday league player. A Sunday League player wouldn't score nine goals in his first season in the Premier League. Wins everything in the air, but lacked service and lost confidence. Not as bad as folk make out. Still only 25, bit of good coaching and a bit of confidence and he could have a decent career. Agreed it's probably best for all concerned if he moves on though. That said, perhaps he’d look better if he had a striker partner rather than lone striker.
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Post by workshyfop on Jul 18, 2020 22:27:42 GMT 1
Grant, Campbell and Mounié can all go for me. Agreed. Hopefully, we'll have a new forward line next season. I'm guessing we'll have a few lads from lower down the leagues keen to do well.
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Post by terrierforever on Jul 18, 2020 22:39:35 GMT 1
Players I'd keep next season
Keep
GK Ryan Schofield
Defenders Harry Toffolo Richard Stearman Christopher Schindler Jaden Brown
Midfielders Jonathan Hogg Juninho Bacuna Lewis O'Brien Matty Daly
Strikers Karlan Grant (Sell for as much as we can get) Steve Mounie Frazer Campbell
The rest of the players can leave for me.
Tommy Elphick (Not good enough) Elias Kachunga (Sad to see him go but it's for the best) Joel Coleman (Not good enough) Herbert Bockhorn (Sell) Isaac Mbenza (Quickly sell) Reece Brown (Sell) Alex Pritchard (Sell) Collin Quaner (Sell but sad to see go) Rekeil Pyke (Needs a move) Jon Gorenc Stanković (Already sold) Terence Kongolo (Sell) Adama Diakhaby (Sell) Florent Hadergjonaj (Sell) Ben Hamer (Sell) Ramadan Sobhi (Sell)
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Post by workshyfop on Jul 18, 2020 22:59:39 GMT 1
Players I'd keep next season Keep GK Ryan Schofield Defenders Harry Toffolo Richard Stearman Christopher Schindler Jaden Brown Midfielders Jonathan Hogg Juninho Bacuna Lewis O'Brien Matty Daly Strikers Karlan Grant (Sell for as much as we can get) Steve Mounie Frazer Campbell The rest of the players can leave for me. Tommy Elphick (Not good enough) Elias Kachunga (Sad to see him go but it's for the best) Joel Coleman (Not good enough) Herbert Bockhorn (Sell) Isaac Mbenza (Quickly sell) Reece Brown (Sell) Alex Pritchard (Sell) Collin Quaner (Sell but sad to see go) Rekeil Pyke (Needs a move) Jon Gorenc Stanković (Already sold) Terence Kongolo (Sell) Adama Diakhaby (Sell) Florent Hadergjonaj (Sell) Ben Hamer (Sell) Ramadan Sobhi (Sell) Not sure who's going to buy all these players you want to sell (give away may be more accurate in most of those cases), but point taken. Largely agree, but would be happy for all the strikers to leave. Sell Grant and Mounie for as much as they can fetch and let the management team bring in their own men (some hard lower league lads hungry to make a mark).
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 18, 2020 23:58:41 GMT 1
I cant even remember it but if you say it was good ill believe you. isolated moments arent a great way to rate the player. Mbenza put in 2 or 3 superb crosses when he was on loan here. Mounies technical ability is appalling IMO. So clumsy, so slow. cant control it, his passings crap...honestly hes just really poor. Every now and then he'll have a good moment. So would i if i was playing. Haha, of course you don't remember probably our best goal this season from 25 yards that won us what seemed like a very important win at the time. You've still not said what you've seen in Pritchard? There isn't even an isolated moment. It's 3 years since he was good at this level. 3 years ago Chelsea finished 25 and 27 points ahead of City and Liverpool and Sunderland got relegated from the Premier League. We hadn't even got there! A lot has happened in that time surely you're not clinging to then to make out he'll come good? I struggle to remember what happened last week mate! Yeah i know Im going against the flow with Pritchard. Bit of blind faith maybe. Youve clearly made your mind up on him like i have with Mounie. Mounie's a poor quality player IMO. Lazy, uncommitted, lacking basic technical skills. We can and need to do a lot better than him. And youre right,. we need better than what pritchards given us too. Suppose i just think he might be able to do that himself.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2020 0:04:08 GMT 1
I cant even remember it but if you say it was good ill believe you. isolated moments arent a great way to rate the player. Mbenza put in 2 or 3 superb crosses when he was on loan here. Mounies technical ability is appalling IMO. So clumsy, so slow. cant control it, his passings crap...honestly hes just really poor. Every now and then he'll have a good moment. So would i if i was playing. Your assessment of his technical ability just about covers Grants too Grants gone backwards a lot this season. he looked so hungry for it all when he first came here. Really worked his socks off and carried a real threat. Spent most of this season going through the motions looking like someone who wishes they were somewhere else. In which case we should make it happen and move on. We dont have a striker worth keeping really.
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Post by Torquayterrier on Jul 19, 2020 0:10:19 GMT 1
We didn't score a shedload even in the promotion season so that's four relatively low scoring seasons on the bounce now. The strike force is top priority, this 'they will score with better service' is wearing a bit thin. Good strikers make things happen. Just got to see who we can offload and what the budget allows.
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Jul 19, 2020 0:14:55 GMT 1
Hamer could be an interesting prospect, he's played 26 games this season so can't be the nervous wreck he was for us in the prem anymore. The amount of abuse he got from our fans may mean he doesn't want to come back though. Good. He’s made so many clangers for Derby. Lossl gets a dog’s abuse; Hamer would have pitchforks after him. Better he stays away. Way way away! As for Pritchard. A Subbuteo version of him would offer more to a Town team, he’s done the square root of fuck all for us. Good riddance if he goes and takes his invisible cyst with him.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Jul 19, 2020 0:27:17 GMT 1
Haha, of course you don't remember probably our best goal this season from 25 yards that won us what seemed like a very important win at the time. You've still not said what you've seen in Pritchard? There isn't even an isolated moment. It's 3 years since he was good at this level. 3 years ago Chelsea finished 25 and 27 points ahead of City and Liverpool and Sunderland got relegated from the Premier League. We hadn't even got there! A lot has happened in that time surely you're not clinging to then to make out he'll come good? I struggle to remember what happened last week mate! Yeah i know Im going against the flow with Pritchard. Bit of blind faith maybe. Youve clearly made your mind up on him like i have with Mounie. Mounie's a poor quality player IMO. Lazy, uncommitted, lacking basic technical skills. We can and need to do a lot better than him. And youre right,. we need better than what pritchards given us too. Suppose i just think he might be able to do that himself. Haha fair enough. Google it though it's worth watching again. I just can't see how someone could give Pritchard the benefit of the doubt and not Mounie based on their contributions. As ridiculous as you may think it seems without the goals Mounie has scored we'd be well gone, without Pritchard's contribution we'd be exactly where we are. I'm not saying Mounie is the dogs bollocks by the way, I do think he's been mismanaged though and is a confidence player. He started 4 games in a row and scored in 3 of them, then got dropped for 3 games. The next 2 games he started and scored in both then didn't score in the next game and has started twice in the next 11 games since. I'm not surprised his confidence could be hit from scoring in 5 of 7 starts to suddenly being dropped, especially for a striker that looks about as likely to score as Pritchard does.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2020 0:52:48 GMT 1
Pritchards not a striker. I dont think weve ever played him in that role have we?.
Mounie had a good little run of scoring, no doubt. I didnt think his general performance was any better than it had been, but to be fair he put the ball in the net, which is what youre looking for at the end of the day from your forward. I imagine him being left out was a fitness thing at the time. Managing an injury.
Cowley has favoured the effort and aggression of Campbell since mainly, not that hes been any good either. A walking free kick who rarely scores. But i imagine theyre the sort of managers who find Mounie's uncommitted dawdling about very frustrating.
I think he is a confidence player but he doesnt help himself in that respect. A good striker going through a lean spell will make more effort to get into those positions where you can score. Gamble more with his runs. Basically try harder. He doesn't do any of that. Our delivery into the box isnt great, but what chance do you have of connecting with a static striker who's putting no effort into losing his marker, even if he has put the effort in to get into the box for a change? He just doesnt want to score enough IMO.
Pritchards been extremely disappointing and nothing like the player Norwich had 3 years ago in this division, but Ive never questioned his effort or commitment.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on Jul 19, 2020 1:14:29 GMT 1
My point was Campbell is about as likely to score as Pritchard is, to be fair I could have used all but about 3 players in our squad for the analogy.
He wasn't injured or managing an injury at that time either, he was injured well after that, which I would think for anyone would make it even more frustrating considering the run he was on.
Mounie does make runs and he does get free in the box but as the ball never gets put in there, or played forward generally the runs don't get seen. There are going to be times though when he does probably think, what's the point? The cross isn't coming in from (insert any of our wingers/full backs/no10's here) or Hogg is going to roll it back to Schindler he's not sending it this way.
As for Pritchard I'm not sure that because he looks like he's blowing out of his arse after 3 pirouettes and a tumble he's fully committed. It's similar to the whole Billing being lazy argument because of his languid style. Pritchard looks busy without actually doing anything or going anywhere. He doesn't chase back and he doesn't support the striker which does make you wonder where he is half the time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 1:18:11 GMT 1
All of those contracted. Ain't nobody buying them unless they're idiots - our players cost will far exceed their value because of the contracts they're on. Mounie, Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo, Pritchard, Schindler, Bacuna, Campbell, O'Brien, Stearman, Elphick, Grant, Toffolo, (Sobhi?) So - somewhere between 7 and 12 signings (perm or loan) required depending how burned some of those bridges really are. Suspect it'll be more likely between 5 and 7 and Phil H will get his dream of showing us some of the awesome Academy products that haven't been good enough to break through into one of the worst performing Town teams in living memory! dear me are you a supporter because if you are god help us. Explain yourself, there’s nothing contentious whatsoever in what I’ve written, as any true football man would acknowledge. Do you think any of the contracted players above will attract offers that meet our valuation for them (based on their contract value)? If so, which specifically? Do you think we are going to go out into the free market and sign more than 7 players??? And if not, which academy players are going to fill the gaps and how good realistically do you think they will be???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 1:20:49 GMT 1
The difficulty of course is Lossl + Smith-Rowe + Chalobah + Willock have been a massive part of our survival this season. (plus Danny Simpson for a short while before his legs rapidly fell off, and Grabara before he fortuitously for us banged his head when he dropped out of form). We've got to replace that lot to even get close to this seasons poor starting point. Smith Rowe will be a challenge to replace with as good. Dont think the others will. Please get in touch with the club and organise a keeper and right sided defender for next season.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 1:24:01 GMT 1
I would keep him yes. Bit of blind faith maybe, but primarily because its not very long ago he was one of the best players in this division. Thats why i think theres a player in there. Mounies technical ability is sunday league level. Its fucking appalling! Think it was the sheff wed game, he tried to control a pretty ordinary ball on his chest. It must have bounced off him 15 foot away. We were just laughing it was so crap. His headed goals are the ones that probably require ability. id imagine nearly all the others were close range tap ins when it happened to fall at his feet. First year he started great at palace and went steadily down hill, but did put in the odd good show along the way. Remember a great goal at West brom. Last season and this season hes just been shit. Theres no sign of him improving. Dont think he looks that bothered to be honest. He doesnt want to score enough. You’re a poor judge of character not only footballing ability.
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Post by drbaldric on Jul 19, 2020 1:33:35 GMT 1
We get used to the idea that the sun sets, but will always rise again in the morning. Are we entitled to assume that professional football will start again in early September? The Govt. trials on allowing fans to return to sport involve cricket, horse racing and snooker in a theatre. It's hard to see that 'the science' is suddenly going to allow fans to return any time soon, so where does that leave divisions 1 and 2 with no income? The Prem will be ok on the back of tv revenues, but the Championship falls between the two. And if it is possible, how do we shoehorn in all the games when the players now need a holiday, a pre season and we need to finish early for the Euros? Can anyone help me? Are they trialling fans at horse racing just because Handjob,the Health Minister is MP for Newmarket ? Yes. He's shit at health. Trust me, I'm a doctor. But he's a good patsy for the horse racing gambling industry.
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Post by detox on Jul 19, 2020 7:24:58 GMT 1
Whatever we do, it's crucial we don't start next season like we started this one under Seiwert. After those first 8 games our season was already defined as a relegation battle. As was the season before in the PL. You can't really play confident adventurous attacking football when you're scrambling for points.
Most of the players we splashed the cash on are not the sort of players you need in a dog fight. I'm hoping that if we can start next season as a bit more attack minded and adventure we might see some of the deadlegs perform better and with more enthusiasm and confidence.
I'm sure the Cowleys will be happy to end the dogfight mentality that has been needed at this club for two years now. Can we rejuvenate the likes of Pritchard, Mbenze, Diakhaby, Mouniè and find a winning formula?
The Cowleys have already stated their ambitions for next season so maybe he can finally ditch the dour defensive needs must style. A flying start to next season might see some significant changes in the performance levels and attitudes of some players? 8
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jul 19, 2020 8:12:39 GMT 1
Mounie is not a natural footballer. You only have to watch him try to lay it off to someone to see that. It's like his brain cant work out that his team mate and opposition will be moving and he therefore needs to adjust accordingly for this. Instead he usually lays it off about 5 yards behind a town player and straight to the opposition
I like him because he tries and he's decent in the air but his technical ability is conference standard
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Post by Big Ern on Jul 19, 2020 9:32:10 GMT 1
Look at Campbells goalscoring record before he joined and the season Mounie had in France before he joined us. Its our style of play/culture/coaching (take your pick) that means our strikers can't score.
With a target man as good in the air as Mounie why are we not playing a pacy striker off of him? Answer is that we are too focused on possession football. It doesn't work anymore and needs to change otherwise it doesn't matter who we bring in, the end result will be the same.
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Post by bogart on Jul 19, 2020 9:33:50 GMT 1
His goal rate when with Montpellier was not bad around 1 in 3. About 6 months ago was talking with a few Montpellier fans when we got around to Mounie. They were not overly impressed, well were by the money we paid for him. Like we have discovered his basic football skills are limited at best. Nine out of ten goals he scores are on a plate sitters, and he misses a fair few of them.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jul 19, 2020 11:16:34 GMT 1
Unfair on the Academy lads that last part, you couldn’t reasonably expect kids to come in and change things in such a desperate run of games for the club. If we had been safer earlier then yes, we could’ve given them a run. This. The temperament of the players needs to be taken into account. Not least the fact they're still developing & learning. They might play without fear, but might also fuck up & giving them such responsibility at such a crucial time does not sound like a great idea. I would like to see a few youth players given a run out vs Millwall, even if only a few minutes from the bench.
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Post by Torquayterrier on Jul 19, 2020 11:24:21 GMT 1
Wonder if that Dowell lad will go back to Everton after being at Wigan or if they fancy sending him out for another season? I suppose Wigan are geographically a good fit if he's based in Liverpool but he looks to have potential.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 11:36:51 GMT 1
Either the standard of local football football has sky rocketed in the last couple of years since I saw a game, or some people are confusing Sunday League with games televised on a Sunday? 🤷♂️
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2020 11:37:58 GMT 1
Smith Rowe will be a challenge to replace with as good. Dont think the others will. Please get in touch with the club and organise a keeper and right sided defender for next season. What, you think options in those areas are so scarce a fan will need to give the cowleys some names?
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2020 11:42:19 GMT 1
I would keep him yes. Bit of blind faith maybe, but primarily because its not very long ago he was one of the best players in this division. Thats why i think theres a player in there. Mounies technical ability is sunday league level. Its fucking appalling! Think it was the sheff wed game, he tried to control a pretty ordinary ball on his chest. It must have bounced off him 15 foot away. We were just laughing it was so crap. His headed goals are the ones that probably require ability. id imagine nearly all the others were close range tap ins when it happened to fall at his feet. First year he started great at palace and went steadily down hill, but did put in the odd good show along the way. Remember a great goal at West brom. Last season and this season hes just been shit. Theres no sign of him improving. Dont think he looks that bothered to be honest. He doesnt want to score enough. You’re a poor judge of character not only footballing ability. Really? We must be watching two very different players.
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