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Post by bluestripe on Aug 9, 2020 16:03:42 GMT 1
Why do we assume that the Cowleys' second season would be the same as the first? They are on record saying it has been the most challenging time of their careers. Might they have not adapted having learnt from their first season? It's a similar situation with Danny Ward. Many on here have dissed the potential signing because they remember the Danny Ward of 2015. Might he not be a better player now? It's a good job the 21 year old Aaron Mooy played at St Mirren, not here. 😁 Fair point but I’d have like to have seen the green shoots of recovery this season. Not loanees and survival on the penultimate weekend. If we’d finished the season with 6 wins and and a draw from 10 games and ended up 13th then I could see Phil saying yeah let’s go again. I just don’t think the evidence was there so suggest a big upturn was on the cards. Like everybody else, I don't know how the Cowleys would have got on next season. However, in my head, I'd say it would have been 10% chance of relegation. Corberàn is an unknown and so it is difficult to assess. But I would say chance of relegation is higher with him. However, that's admittedly a negative Powell way of looking at things. 😊 I will be intrigued to see how the Cowleys get on if they get another Championship gig.
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Post by Tim Nice But Dim on Aug 9, 2020 16:13:59 GMT 1
Did the Cowleys say a big thank you to the fans after their sacking, i don't recall them doing so. I would have given them another season unless something happened that PH thought he had no choice. The Cowleys are linked with the Watford job the club who get through more managers than anyone else.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 16:52:27 GMT 1
Fair point but I’d have like to have seen the green shoots of recovery this season. Not loanees and survival on the penultimate weekend. If we’d finished the season with 6 wins and and a draw from 10 games and ended up 13th then I could see Phil saying yeah let’s go again. I just don’t think the evidence was there so suggest a big upturn was on the cards. Like everybody else, I don't know how the Cowleys would have got on next season. However, in my head, I'd say it would have been 10% chance of relegation. Corberàn is an unknown and so it is difficult to assess. But I would say chance of relegation is higher with him. However, that's admittedly a negative Powell way of looking at things. 😊 I will be intrigued to see how the Cowleys get on if they get another Championship gig. I don’t think they will. I may be wrong but I think maybe a Bradford/decent League one outfit more likely. I don’t think too many championship clubs will want the model where they give so much power to the manager- not in these times especially. Chairmen don’t want a guy who’ll want lots of expensive loan signings. All clubs will be looking at their often expensively paid squad and want someone to come in and get a tune out of em. The Cowleys can do that to a point.
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Post by bluestripe on Aug 9, 2020 17:00:18 GMT 1
Like everybody else, I don't know how the Cowleys would have got on next season. However, in my head, I'd say it would have been 10% chance of relegation. Corberàn is an unknown and so it is difficult to assess. But I would say chance of relegation is higher with him. However, that's admittedly a negative Powell way of looking at things. 😊 I will be intrigued to see how the Cowleys get on if they get another Championship gig. I don’t think they will. I may be wrong but I think maybe a Bradford/decent League one outfit more likely. I don’t think too many championship clubs will want the model where they give so much power to the manager- not in these times especially. Chairmen don’t want a guy who’ll want lots of expensive loan signings. All clubs will be looking at their often expensively paid squad and want someone to come in and get a tune out of em. The Cowleys can do that to a point. I agree. After a season in the Championship, they may compromise on their remit next time, having seen first hand they are out of step. Who knows? They may also get your said League One side promoted. Too many variables, but I would say more likely than not we will see the Cowleys in the Championship again at some point in the future.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Aug 9, 2020 17:04:25 GMT 1
I don’t think they will. I may be wrong but I think maybe a Bradford/decent League one outfit more likely. I don’t think too many championship clubs will want the model where they give so much power to the manager- not in these times especially. Chairmen don’t want a guy who’ll want lots of expensive loan signings. All clubs will be looking at their often expensively paid squad and want someone to come in and get a tune out of em. The Cowleys can do that to a point. I agree. After a season in the Championship, they may compromise on their remit next time, having seen first hand they are out of step. Who knows? They may also get your said League One side promoted. Too many variables, but I would say more likely than not we will see the Cowleys in the Championship again at some point in the future. If that’s the case it will be very interesting to see how our crowd reacts to their touchline behaviour against us!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2020 17:50:58 GMT 1
Like everybody else, I don't know how the Cowleys would have got on next season. However, in my head, I'd say it would have been 10% chance of relegation. Corberàn is an unknown and so it is difficult to assess. But I would say chance of relegation is higher with him. However, that's admittedly a negative Powell way of looking at things. 😊 I will be intrigued to see how the Cowleys get on if they get another Championship gig. I don’t think they will. I may be wrong but I think maybe a Bradford/decent League one outfit more likely. I don’t think too many championship clubs will want the model where they give so much power to the manager- not in these times especially. Chairmen don’t want a guy who’ll want lots of expensive loan signings. All clubs will be looking at their often expensively paid squad and want someone to come in and get a tune out of em. The Cowleys can do that to a point. And especially not to a pair who have demonstrated no evidence of any ability to have what it takes above League 2, and who will no doubt now have very different ideas about what their wage should look like.
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Post by shawsie on Aug 9, 2020 23:59:57 GMT 1
Why do we assume that the Cowleys' second season would be the same as the first? They are on record saying it has been the most challenging time of their careers. Might they have not adapted having learnt from their first season? It's a similar situation with Danny Ward. Many on here have dissed the potential signing because they remember the Danny Ward of 2015. Might he not be a better player now? It's a good job the 21 year old Aaron Mooy played at St Mirren, not here. 😁 Fair point but I’d have like to have seen the green shoots of recovery this season. Not loanees and survival on the penultimate weekend. If we’d finished the season with 6 wins and and a draw from 10 games and ended up 13th then I could see Phil saying yeah let’s go again. I just don’t think the evidence was there so suggest a big upturn was on the cards. I disagree fella. The cowleys inherited an absolute shambles and did well to keep us up. It was their use of the loan market which did it as well imho given we gave all but stoke a fifth of the season start....even the so called genius bielsa used the loan market brilliantly. Talk to most decent leeds fans and ben white was their most consistent player. All last months fish and chip paper now though i suppose.
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Post by specialun on Aug 10, 2020 0:07:19 GMT 1
I don’t think they will. I may be wrong but I think maybe a Bradford/decent League one outfit more likely. I don’t think too many championship clubs will want the model where they give so much power to the manager- not in these times especially. Chairmen don’t want a guy who’ll want lots of expensive loan signings. All clubs will be looking at their often expensively paid squad and want someone to come in and get a tune out of em. The Cowleys can do that to a point. And especially not to a pair who have demonstrated no evidence of any ability to have what it takes above League 2, and who will no doubt now have very different ideas about what their wage should look like. “No evidence of any ability to have it what it takes above league 2? Huh? Wow! They took over a side with 1 point from 7? Their record with that context and with a summer window was P39 W13 D11 L15 pts 50 1.28 pts / game? Criticise the style - I’m fine with that But their results shows ability at this level - they leave with better reputations than when they came
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Post by swam4mwg on Aug 10, 2020 7:32:04 GMT 1
And especially not to a pair who have demonstrated no evidence of any ability to have what it takes above League 2, and who will no doubt now have very different ideas about what their wage should look like. “No evidence of any ability to have it what it takes above league 2? Huh? Wow! They took over a side with 1 point from 7? Their record with that context and with a summer window was P39 W13 D11 L15 pts 50 1.28 pts / game? Criticise the style - I’m fine with that But their results shows ability at this level - they leave with better reputations than when they came I think people forget how much turmoil Town were in when the Cowleys took over. Apart from being Rock bottom with one point, they had a number of players who didn't want to be here. They left here with there reputation enhanced. I think PH knew they were the kind of managers for that situation and once Town were safe,he could bring in a coach that represented this vision the club has. Carlos would not have been as good choice for team at the bottom. I would say this was a case of 'horses for courses' and was planned way back in September.
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Aug 10, 2020 7:39:33 GMT 1
Why do we assume that the Cowleys' second season would be the same as the first? They are on record saying it has been the most challenging time of their careers. Might they have not adapted having learnt from their first season? It's a similar situation with Danny Ward. Many on here have dissed the potential signing because they remember the Danny Ward of 2015. Might he not be a better player now? It's a good job the 21 year old Aaron Mooy played at St Mirren, not here. 😁 Fair point but I’d have like to have seen the green shoots of recovery this season. Not loanees and survival on the penultimate weekend. If we’d finished the season with 6 wins and and a draw from 10 games and ended up 13th then I could see Phil saying yeah let’s go again. I just don’t think the evidence was there so suggest a big upturn was on the cards. No doubt you would expect a new captain to have jumped on board the Titanic and set a new round the world speed record just after it hit the iceberg.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 10:19:32 GMT 1
And especially not to a pair who have demonstrated no evidence of any ability to have what it takes above League 2, and who will no doubt now have very different ideas about what their wage should look like. “No evidence of any ability to have it what it takes above league 2? Huh? Wow! They took over a side with 1 point from 7? Their record with that context and with a summer window was P39 W13 D11 L15 pts 50 1.28 pts / game? Criticise the style - I’m fine with that But their results shows ability at this level - they leave with better reputations than when they came If you think taking 39/40 games to achieve 50 points in the Championship with a £60m+ wage bill squad is decent then hopefully for them so does some Championship chairman who is going to offer them their next job. In terms of achievement in practical terms, Town arguably sit alongside Middlesbrough and Stoke as being the significant under achievers of the division this season. Boro sacked their manager, O'Neill came in to Stoke a little later, but would be surprised to see him last until Christmas if they carry on performing like they (and we) did.
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Post by specialun on Aug 10, 2020 12:09:43 GMT 1
“No evidence of any ability to have it what it takes above league 2? Huh? Wow! They took over a side with 1 point from 7? Their record with that context and with a summer window was P39 W13 D11 L15 pts 50 1.28 pts / game? Criticise the style - I’m fine with that But their results shows ability at this level - they leave with better reputations than when they came If you think taking 39/40 games to achieve 50 points in the Championship with a £60m+ wage bill squad is decent then hopefully for them so does some Championship chairman who is going to offer them their next job.. £60m wage bill lol 😂?! Sixty? Six zero? Where do you get that from? Our wage bill was in region of £60m in the premier league! Try dividing it be 3 and you’d be closer for this season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 12:19:41 GMT 1
If you think taking 39/40 games to achieve 50 points in the Championship with a £60m+ wage bill squad is decent then hopefully for them so does some Championship chairman who is going to offer them their next job.. £60m wage bill lol 😂?! Sixty? Six zero? Where do you get that from? Our wage bill was in region of £60m in the premier league! Try dividing it be 3 and you’d be closer for this season. Please inform me of the £40m worth of wages that left the club since we exited the EPL that weren't with us in the 2019-20 season?
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Post by RickDangerous on Aug 10, 2020 12:24:13 GMT 1
£60m wage bill lol 😂?! Sixty? Six zero? Where do you get that from? Our wage bill was in region of £60m in the premier league! Try dividing it be 3 and you’d be closer for this season. Please inform me of the £40m worth of wages that left the club since we exited the EPL that weren't with us in the 2019-20 season? It's called a relegation contract clause. Plus we've lost alot of high earners. Zanka, Lossl, Mooy and Depoitre would have been some of the highest.
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Post by specialun on Aug 10, 2020 12:29:06 GMT 1
£60m wage bill lol 😂?! Sixty? Six zero? Where do you get that from? Our wage bill was in region of £60m in the premier league! Try dividing it be 3 and you’d be closer for this season. Please inform me of the £40m worth of wages that left the club since we exited the EPL that weren't with us in the 2019-20 season? 1. Relegation clause 2. We sold players bought in the premier league and replaced with players from forest green, Leyton orient, German division 4-8 etc The wage bill was in region of £22m when Cowley came in, under £20m by Jan I think? I completely agree if the wage bill was £60m we should be top of the league...with a wage bill a third of that I think they did a pretty good job!! I assume you’d agree on a third of the wage budget you thought they had
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 10, 2020 13:48:16 GMT 1
£60m wage bill lol 😂?! Sixty? Six zero? Where do you get that from? Our wage bill was in region of £60m in the premier league! Try dividing it be 3 and you’d be closer for this season. Please inform me of the £40m worth of wages that left the club since we exited the EPL that weren't with us in the 2019-20 season? As already mentioned all the player contracts had a relegation clause. There was alot of big earners that left aswell.. Zanka Williams Mooy Smith Billing RVLP Löwe Depoitre Durm Lössl Sabiri Loaned out at various stages of the season were.. Hadergjonaj Hamer Diakhaby Sobhi Mbenza Kongolo That's a fair chunk off the wage bill there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2020 17:45:55 GMT 1
^Hmm...maybe with those numbers removed about 10th would have been a reasonable achievement.
The squad we had at the start was easily good enough to finish top 8.
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Post by huddersfc on Aug 10, 2020 19:40:13 GMT 1
^Hmm...maybe with those numbers removed about 10th would have been a reasonable achievement. The squad we had at the start was easily good enough to finish top 8. Top 8? Steady on. We got rid of our star man in Mooy who was the difference in our promotion season between mid/lower table and top 6 in my opinion. We sold players and didnt replace them, or when we did replace them, it was with some of the cheapest options we could find (frees, loans or fees that barely got to 6 figures). Some of the players this season have been League 2 standard, and probably only 1 or 2 of them would have any case to argue if we showed them the door. Combine that with the start we made under Siewart, following on from our last season in the Premiership. We had massive problems, and I cant have been the only one after 7 or so games this season who was wondering where the next win would come from. Players that didnt seem to want to play, players who looked unfit and uninterested, players with such fragile confidence that they looked a few touches from a mistake. We looked gone, it wasnt a case of a few bad results, it was a case of League 1 here we come. Like it or not the Cowleys achieved what they had to do, and if you asked any sane town fan after 1 point from 9 games whether you would take safety with 1 game to go, they would have snapped your hand off. I am not the Cowleys biggest fan and I have been critical of them, the style has been abysmal, but I think they probably did a better job than most people, myself included, gave them credit for. I wasnt particularly bothered when we got rid, however after seeing who we have appointed, I am starting to think we have made a big mistake. I get the feeling we wont be much better off this season after 9 games, unless we invest in the squad and shift on the wage thieves.
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midlander
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Post by midlander on Aug 10, 2020 21:20:41 GMT 1
“No evidence of any ability to have it what it takes above league 2? Huh? Wow! They took over a side with 1 point from 7? Their record with that context and with a summer window was P39 W13 D11 L15 pts 50 1.28 pts / game? Criticise the style - I’m fine with that But their results shows ability at this level - they leave with better reputations than when they came If you think taking 39/40 games to achieve 50 points in the Championship with a £60m+ wage bill squad is decent then hopefully for them so does some Championship chairman who is going to offer them their next job. In terms of achievement in practical terms, Town arguably sit alongside Middlesbrough and Stoke as being the significant under achievers of the division this season. Boro sacked their manager, O'Neill came in to Stoke a little later, but would be surprised to see him last until Christmas if they carry on performing like they (and we) did. O'Neill has a fanbase behind him and there was a clear direction towards the end of season. Very much doubt he'll be gone by Christmas as they won't be remotely in the same position again. He has got them on the up again.
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 11, 2020 12:32:57 GMT 1
A) I didn't know we had French fans, and B) What's French for brown noser
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Post by benhomly on Aug 11, 2020 13:05:48 GMT 1
A) I didn't know we had French fans, and B) What's French for brown noser He's no more French than you or I Monsieur Le Porrohman; more likely a Town fan who's gone to live in France. And in answer to your question - leche-cul
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 11, 2020 14:21:26 GMT 1
A) I didn't know we had French fans, and B) What's French for brown noser He's no more French than you or I Monsieur Le Porrohman; more likely a Town fan who's gone to live in France. And in answer to your question - leche-cul Got a suspicion he's a French Nick. I tweeted back that I disagreed and he liked the post 😁
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 14:56:23 GMT 1
A) I didn't know we had French fans, and B) What's French for brown noser Whatever you think about him and his football (I'm no fan), fair play to the bloke. It's a gracious response that he took time and effort with. And when did PE teachers grasp the difference between affect and effect?! Impressive stuff...
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digs
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Post by digs on Aug 11, 2020 15:14:24 GMT 1
A) I didn't know we had French fans, and B) What's French for brown noser Whatever you think about him and his football (I'm no fan), fair play to the bloke. It's a gracious response that he took time and effort with. And when did PE teachers grasp the difference between affect and effect?! Impressive stuff... isn't it normal to take time to respond with grace and effort when someone thanks you?,id be surprised if someone didn't tbf
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Post by ldotm on Aug 11, 2020 15:23:45 GMT 1
We’ll never know how well the Cowleys would have done, it’s all guesswork now. One thing is for sure, if Carlos doesn’t perform then Phil will never live it down with sacking them as it’s easy in hindsight to say they were the right people to take us further.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
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Post by hypotenuse on Aug 11, 2020 15:34:18 GMT 1
^Hmm...maybe with those numbers removed about 10th would have been a reasonable achievement. The squad we had at the start was easily good enough to finish top 8. There is absolutely no way we had a squad anywhere near to top 8 standard without Mooy and Billing, Zanka, Lössl and others. I felt that we had a squad that would finish 15th/16th at the start of the season. When I realised that some of our players were effectively ‘on strike’, I thought we’d be relegated. Look at some of the subs benches we had during the season - they tell a story of a paper thin squad and a load of academy players, most of whom are well below Championship standard. We did extremely well to avoid the drop - it may not have been as dramatic but definitely equalled Jacko and Taff’s Great Escape in 1998.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 15:55:26 GMT 1
Whatever you think about him and his football (I'm no fan), fair play to the bloke. It's a gracious response that he took time and effort with. And when did PE teachers grasp the difference between affect and effect?! Impressive stuff... isn't it normal to take time to respond with grace and effort when someone thanks you?,id be surprised if someone didn't tbf It's only exceptional when you factor in how many people might have done the same. If someone takes time to write me a letter telling me how great I am, I'd reply personally. Ronaldo almost certainly doesn't. I would think it to be quite rare from anyone in the public eye.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2020 16:10:19 GMT 1
isn't it normal to take time to respond with grace and effort when someone thanks you?,id be surprised if someone didn't tbf It's only exceptional when you factor in how many people might have done the same. If someone takes time to write me a letter telling me how great I am, I'd reply personally. Ronaldo almost certainly doesn't. I would think it to be quite rare from anyone in the public eye. To be fair if Ronaldo took the time to reply to every letter telling him how great he is, he wouldn't be doing much else!! You or I or Danny Cowley probably get fewer such missives, and it makes perfect sense therefore that a personal reply would be forthcoming.
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Post by bluestripe on Aug 11, 2020 16:16:12 GMT 1
Whatever you think about him and his football (I'm no fan), fair play to the bloke. It's a gracious response that he took time and effort with. And when did PE teachers grasp the difference between affect and effect?! Impressive stuff... isn't it normal to take time to respond with grace and effort when someone thanks you?,id be surprised if someone didn't tbf Really appreciate you taking the time to post on this subject.
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digs
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Post by digs on Aug 11, 2020 16:19:02 GMT 1
isn't it normal to take time to respond with grace and effort when someone thanks you?,id be surprised if someone didn't tbf Really appreciate you taking the time to post on this subject. thankyou I hope this reply finds you well,I'm really happy for my contribution to this thread,and I wish you all the best in your forum escapades
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