Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 18:11:26 GMT 1
How come we haven't snapped their hand off?
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 2, 2020 18:16:37 GMT 1
Bacuna has no football brain But more talent than anyone else in the squad Undoubtedly but still brainless. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 2, 2020 18:17:06 GMT 1
How come we haven't snapped their hand off? Probably trying to get more out of them. |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Sept 2, 2020 19:50:48 GMT 1
Spending a fortune bringing in the Cowleys and then making a decisive decision to fire them at the end of the season with a pay off doesn’t strike me as the actions of a potless man with no cash flow.
However, whichever way you look at things DH’s signings and subsequent rushed repayment of the money spaffed away has left the club in a situation that it should not be facing.
Sadly that’s the way it stands and we need to move forward but to suggest there’s another saviour out there who will continue to pay the wages of (let’s just call them) “disappointing signings” and buy another bunch of better players prior to getting rid of the “disappointing signings” with the current economic climate is pretty naive.
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Sept 2, 2020 19:58:30 GMT 1
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Post by Ox Terrier on Sept 2, 2020 20:01:39 GMT 1
Dean won't see any of it either! I think we just have to accept that from the moment after we stayed up at Chelsea, until the moment just before Stewart was sacked, almost every decision that was made ended up being the wrong one - with a few exceptions such as Grant. We ended up 'blowing our brains out' financially and this season we're still paying for it and the pandemic isn't helping. If we can get to the end of this season without getting relegated and bringing a few of the youngsters into the squad we'll be in a much better position than we've ever been. I'm more a 'happy clapper' than 'moaning fucker', but generally a realist. The club 'fucked it up' in the PL, but it can't be undone. Hopefully if we ever get there again we'll have learnt the lessons. Plus,especially for the 'Potless2' poster and friends - nobody is making money out of Town! Dean Hoyle MAY get most of the cash he invested back - without any interest! He certainly hadn't had anything for the time he put in, or the time he and his wife put into the Foundation. PH is certainly getting nothing out of the club, except for a load of abuse from a number of so called supporters. Surely Dean should pay have paid the price for ‘fucking it up’ in the PL and and deserves criticism for selling to a guy who clearly doesn’t have the means to take us forward. I’m yet to hear a good argument as to why Phil was the best buyer for the club rather than the best buyer for Dean Hoyle. Let’s face it Dean threw his toys out of the pram - possibly didn’t like the negativity in the second premier league season. He knew Phil would agree a deal on the best terms for him. Phil’s ego meant he jumped at the opportunity despite it really being a shit deal and having no real means to run a championship club (as has been evidenced to date). The posters are right that we have a one way ticket to league one with Phil in charge I can’t disagree. Phil will look to sell the club and walk away when the parachute money has finally gone. I don’t see him being in it for the long term, maximum 2-3 years. |
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Post by Ox Terrier on Sept 2, 2020 20:07:15 GMT 1
Yep it’s what keyboard warriors do. I’ve always thought the word keyboard warrior was funny I know and have worked with someone on this forum who was accused of being a keyboard warrior a while back , he didn’t react on here to the comment but it was comical as he’s an absolute machine he’s worked in the forces in extreme conditions and probably most fellow friends would class him as an elite human being , thought it quite funny someone on here was calling him a keyboard warrior and quite aggressively. What are your thoughts on sentence structure though? |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Sept 2, 2020 20:09:18 GMT 1
Surely Dean should pay have paid the price for ‘fucking it up’ in the PL and and deserves criticism for selling to a guy who clearly doesn’t have the means to take us forward. I’m yet to hear a good argument as to why Phil was the best buyer for the club rather than the best buyer for Dean Hoyle. Let’s face it Dean threw his toys out of the pram - possibly didn’t like the negativity in the second premier league season. He knew Phil would agree a deal on the best terms for him. Phil’s ego meant he jumped at the opportunity despite it really being a shit deal and having no real means to run a championship club (as has been evidenced to date). The posters are right that we have a one way ticket to league one with Phil in charge I can’t disagree. Phil will look to sell the club and walk away when the parachute money has finally gone. I don’t see him being in it for the long term, maximum 2-3 years. To be fair Phil H stressed when he came that he would never make money from his position at the club, and I believe him.From my repetitive posts (sorry) people would know that it's not the present Chairman I blame - I can't blame PH for accepting the deal he was offered which was, I suspect, beyond his wildest dreams. |
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Post by Big Ern on Sept 2, 2020 20:11:37 GMT 1
People need to give Phil a break. Last season was turmoil. Now its all him. I have a feeling we will do well.
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Post by Ox Terrier on Sept 2, 2020 20:28:11 GMT 1
I can’t disagree. Phil will look to sell the club and walk away when the parachute money has finally gone. I don’t see him being in it for the long term, maximum 2-3 years. To be fair Phil H stressed when he came that he would never make money from his position at the club, and I believe him.From my repetitive posts (sorry) people would know that it's not the present Chairman I blame - I can't blame PH for accepting the deal he was offered which was, I suspect, beyond his wildest dreams. I’m not having a pop at Phil, I just don’t see him being able to run the Club without the parachute money. He’ll sell cheap to get out of dodge and we’ll have come full circle. Back to square one financially. It’s just a matter of if we’ll be in League 1 or the Championship. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Sept 2, 2020 20:37:36 GMT 1
I can’t believe your asking this question. DH went out of his way to place PH in his place and told us all it’s in safe hands, the deal was geared to get DH everything he wanted not to get the club in the best position possible. Hope I’m wrong, won’t stop watching town ever so this predicament isn’t a positive for me, time will tell. If you want to talk about who he sold the club to and the reasons why then I'm mainly in agreement. But I'd also say that in any deal that would have been a demand. But to say the £16m is going straight to Dean's back pocket is total bollocks. That doesn't add up with the numbers, no matter how many times Phil tries to over-exaggerate how much we had to repay to him. If Grant leaves for 16m then we'll have taken over £30m net from transfers in the 2 seasons. We initially owe Dean £35m, roughly the same amount. So then we also have parachute payment income, all 90m of it or whatever it is. Paying him back is not screwing us. Your putting words in my mouth never said the 16 million would go into DH a pocket. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Sept 2, 2020 20:41:21 GMT 1
I’ve always thought the word keyboard warrior was funny I know and have worked with someone on this forum who was accused of being a keyboard warrior a while back , he didn’t react on here to the comment but it was comical as he’s an absolute machine he’s worked in the forces in extreme conditions and probably most fellow friends would class him as an elite human being , thought it quite funny someone on here was calling him a keyboard warrior and quite aggressively. What are your thoughts on sentence structure though? Sentence snobs . 😁 |
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Post by impact on Sept 2, 2020 21:01:40 GMT 1
If you want to talk about who he sold the club to and the reasons why then I'm mainly in agreement. But I'd also say that in any deal that would have been a demand. But to say the £16m is going straight to Dean's back pocket is total bollocks. That doesn't add up with the numbers, no matter how many times Phil tries to over-exaggerate how much we had to repay to him. If Grant leaves for 16m then we'll have taken over £30m net from transfers in the 2 seasons. We initially owe Dean £35m, roughly the same amount. So then we also have parachute payment income, all 90m of it or whatever it is. Paying him back is not screwing us. Your putting words in my mouth never said the 16 million would go into DH a pocket. I never said you did. Others further up the thread did. |
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aca00js
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by aca00js on Sept 2, 2020 21:26:00 GMT 1
]Because he sold it to Phil who doesn't seem able to fund the club to the required level. The difference between the two seems to be that Hoyle had the money to aid cashflow for all these deals that are spread over multiple years but Phil hasn't the resources to do this. Whats the specific evidence that supports this common viewpoint? Are bills and players not being paid?? Or is it mostly that you/we got spoiled by the headlines about splashing £10m on crappy players and just want to see more of that and then we'll be happy??? Have you seen the state of the squad? We lack depth in most positions and hoping the youth players can step up. It is like back in the days post administration. The club was supposed to be changed forever after staying up and instead we have a playing squad ability wise worse than when we went up. If people expect £10m signings they are mad but some signings at least would be nice. How Phil has operated since he came in he seems to not have the resources needed for this level. |
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Post by Amigo on Sept 2, 2020 21:28:44 GMT 1
Has Grant gone yet or am I on the wrong thread?
I won't be disappointed if he goes to be honest, not necessarily happy but not disappointed. He's shown some moments of quality but he's also shown he still needs a hell of a lot of work. He struggles to play down the middle but doesn't seem to like playing wide and isn't a winger. His performance levels and commitment gradually got worse as the season went on and if there's been a bid from the Premier League then his head is going to be well and truly turned (again, probably).
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aca00js
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Post by aca00js on Sept 2, 2020 21:34:47 GMT 1
Spending a fortune bringing in the Cowleys and then making a decisive decision to fire them at the end of the season with a pay off doesn’t strike me as the actions of a potless man with no cash flow. But it does look like he couldn't afford to do that and also fund signings this summer currently. Remember Hoyle did very similar with Powell to bring in Wagner but he then backed him. At the moment the backing of Carlos doesn't seem to be there. Last summer Siewert wasn't backed either to the required level needed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2020 21:36:11 GMT 1
Whats the specific evidence that supports this common viewpoint? Are bills and players not being paid?? Or is it mostly that you/we got spoiled by the headlines about splashing £10m on crappy players and just want to see more of that and then we'll be happy??? Have you seen the state of the squad? We lack depth in most positions and hoping the youth players can step up. It is like back in the days post administration. The club was supposed to be changed forever after staying up and instead we have a playing squad ability wise worse than when we went up. If people expect £10m signings they are mad but some signings at least would be nice. How Phil has operated since he came in he seems to not have the resources needed for this level. You could be talking about pretty much any club in the Football League barring Fulham. Most clubs have brought in only one or two players that they hope will make a difference this summer - and are otherwise relying on players they had out on loan at lower division clubs last season to bulk up the numbers. |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Sept 2, 2020 21:40:20 GMT 1
Spending a fortune bringing in the Cowleys and then making a decisive decision to fire them at the end of the season with a pay off doesn’t strike me as the actions of a potless man with no cash flow. But it does look like he couldn't afford to do that and also fund signings this summer currently. Remember Hoyle did very similar with Powell to bring in Wagner but he then backed him. At the moment the backing of Carlos doesn't seem to be there. Last summer Siewert wasn't backed either to the required level needed. See what you’re saying but the current climate and the amounts of money we’re talking about are totally different. Deans loan is circa 4x our promotion sides basic wage bill. (Prior to bonuses) |
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aca00js
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by aca00js on Sept 2, 2020 21:43:28 GMT 1
Have you seen the state of the squad? We lack depth in most positions and hoping the youth players can step up. It is like back in the days post administration. The club was supposed to be changed forever after staying up and instead we have a playing squad ability wise worse than when we went up. If people expect £10m signings they are mad but some signings at least would be nice. How Phil has operated since he came in he seems to not have the resources needed for this level. You could be talking about pretty much any club in the Football League barring Fulham. Most clubs have brought in only one or two players that they hope will make a difference this summer - and are otherwise relying on players they had out on loan at lower division clubs last season to bulk up the numbers. They aren't all in as much need of a squad overall as us. Currently if you don't think we are heading into the season for another relegation battle then I think your mad |
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aca00js
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Post by aca00js on Sept 2, 2020 21:47:23 GMT 1
But it does look like he couldn't afford to do that and also fund signings this summer currently. Remember Hoyle did very similar with Powell to bring in Wagner but he then backed him. At the moment the backing of Carlos doesn't seem to be there. Last summer Siewert wasn't backed either to the required level needed. See what you’re saying but the current climate and the amounts of money we’re talking about are totally different. Deans loan is circa 4x our promotion sides basic wage bill. (Prior to bonuses) That goes back to my current view that the sale to Phil was the wrong one as we needed somebody who could take on paying back the money to Hoyle without hindering the work needed to make us competitive on the pitch |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 2, 2020 21:53:13 GMT 1
Has Grant gone yet or am I on the wrong thread? I won't be disappointed if he goes to be honest, not necessarily happy but not disappointed. He's shown some moments of quality but he's also shown he still needs a hell of a lot of work. He struggles to play down the middle but doesn't seem to like playing wide and isn't a winger. His performance levels and commitment gradually got worse as the season went on and if there's been a bid from the Premier League then his head is going to be well and truly turned (again, probably). What would you do in his position? I know what I'd do, after spending a season and a half at a club. We were either going to get Grant to play a role in a team pushing for a return to the PL, or the alternative for him was to use us as a springboard. No issues if we sell him, good luck to the lad. Did OK for us, but sadly, he hasn't had the sort of impact as Stewart or Rhodes, plus a few more if you go back a little further, Duncan Shearer etc. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Sept 2, 2020 21:53:19 GMT 1
Your putting words in my mouth never said the 16 million would go into DH a pocket. I never said you did. Others further up the thread did. You replied to my post |
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Sept 2, 2020 21:54:40 GMT 1
People need to give Phil a break. Last season was turmoil. Now its all him. I have a feeling we will do well. Totally agree - give him a break and time. Brave decision to sack the Cowleys and we've already seen more exciting football under Carlos. Too many sheep just having a dig at PH at every opportunity. He is not responsible for our screw up. Rome wasn't built in a day but you need good builders and i believe we've got them |
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Sept 2, 2020 21:56:37 GMT 1
See what you’re saying but the current climate and the amounts of money we’re talking about are totally different. Deans loan is circa 4x our promotion sides basic wage bill. (Prior to bonuses) That goes back to my current view that the sale to Phil was the wrong one as we needed somebody who could take on paying back the money to Hoyle without hindering the work needed to make us competitive on the pitch You mean someone who had a bottomless pit of money? The characteristics of the owner seem to be less important to some on here. As long as they've got a big fat wallet and can write off huge wads of cash (whilst staying inside FFP), then they'll do for some. It's part of the reason I wasn't that keen on Bruce as Mgr. He ditched due to lack of funds IIRC, instead of just realising that as a Manager, sometimes you have to earn success instead of buying it... |
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aca00js
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by aca00js on Sept 2, 2020 22:05:20 GMT 1
That goes back to my current view that the sale to Phil was the wrong one as we needed somebody who could take on paying back the money to Hoyle without hindering the work needed to make us competitive on the pitch You mean someone who had a bottomless pit of money? The characteristics of the owner seem to be less important to some on here. As long as they've got a big fat wallet and can write off huge wads of cash (whilst staying inside FFP), then they'll do for some. It's part of the reason I wasn't that keen on Bruce as Mgr. He ditched due to lack of funds IIRC, instead of just realising that as a Manager, sometimes you have to earn success instead of buying it... Why do you go to such an extreme as bottomless cash? When it appears we have somebody who can't afford to fund the club to be competitive at this level. We was expecting to need substantial re-enforcements yet we have signed two players. Did anybody expect to see Hamer in contention to be starting for us? Look at the players who left this summer have we replaced them? That was a squad that was just good enough to stay in the division |
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Post by htfcfcfc on Sept 2, 2020 22:15:42 GMT 1
See what you’re saying but the current climate and the amounts of money we’re talking about are totally different. Deans loan is circa 4x our promotion sides basic wage bill. (Prior to bonuses) That goes back to my current view that the sale to Phil was the wrong one as we needed somebody who could take on paying back the money to Hoyle without hindering the work needed to make us competitive on the pitch And my original point was that that was a pretty unrealistic and unlikely scenario. We have a squad of players on decent cash. Who would come in and buy a new bunch of players without first removing those already getting paid? I’m not sure there’s many people out there looking to bury some cash into an lower to mid table Championship side at a time where income is uncertain and there’s likely to be a major reset of average player wages below the Premier League level. Most importantly there’s no guarantee anyone will take those players on at anything like the wages they’re currently on so we may find ourselves with the double blow of not getting a fee and continuing to pay them to play elsewhere. With a bit of luck 1 or 2 of those players who haven’t previously might actually contribute this season we can only hope but I go back to my prediction that unless these players leave we won’t sign many and the likelihood is this will all happen much much closer to deadline day that you’re probably going to be comfortable with |
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Post by York Terrier on Sept 2, 2020 22:25:35 GMT 1
Has Grant gone yet or am I on the wrong thread? I won't be disappointed if he goes to be honest, not necessarily happy but not disappointed. He's shown some moments of quality but he's also shown he still needs a hell of a lot of work. He struggles to play down the middle but doesn't seem to like playing wide and isn't a winger. His performance levels and commitment gradually got worse as the season went on and if there's been a bid from the Premier League then his head is going to be well and truly turned (again, probably). What would you do in his position? I know what I'd do, after spending a season and a half at a club. We were either going to get Grant to play a role in a team pushing for a return to the PL, or the alternative for him was to use us as a springboard. No issues if we sell him, good luck to the lad. Did OK for us, but sadly, he hasn't had the sort of impact as Stewart or Rhodes, plus a few more if you go back a little further, Duncan Shearer etc. I think he is a natural goal scorer anyone who gets 19 goals with the negative style the Cowley’s played would get 30 in an attack minded team. If you take away his goals we would have probably gone down and did anyone else even reach 8 goals I think he is a rough diamond that can be well and truly polished |
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Sept 2, 2020 22:28:38 GMT 1
What would you do in his position? I know what I'd do, after spending a season and a half at a club. We were either going to get Grant to play a role in a team pushing for a return to the PL, or the alternative for him was to use us as a springboard. No issues if we sell him, good luck to the lad. Did OK for us, but sadly, he hasn't had the sort of impact as Stewart or Rhodes, plus a few more if you go back a little further, Duncan Shearer etc. I think he is a natural goal scorer anyone who gets 19 goals with the negative style the Cowley’s played would get 30 in an attack minded team. If you take away his goals we would have probably gone down and did anyone else even reach 8 goals I think he is a rough diamond that can be well and truly polished Danny Ward is a far more polished diamond. Barring injury he will score goals |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Sept 2, 2020 22:29:25 GMT 1
What would you do in his position? I know what I'd do, after spending a season and a half at a club. We were either going to get Grant to play a role in a team pushing for a return to the PL, or the alternative for him was to use us as a springboard. No issues if we sell him, good luck to the lad. Did OK for us, but sadly, he hasn't had the sort of impact as Stewart or Rhodes, plus a few more if you go back a little further, Duncan Shearer etc. I think he is a natural goal scorer anyone who gets 19 goals with the negative style the Cowley’s played would get 30 in an attack minded team. If you take away his goals we would have probably gone down and did anyone else even reach 8 goals I think he is a rough diamond that can be well and truly polished I'd agree. But he won't be polished at town. He wants away. I can't see a scenario whereby he is playing for us AND putting it all in. |
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Post by Amigo on Sept 2, 2020 22:34:57 GMT 1
Has Grant gone yet or am I on the wrong thread? I won't be disappointed if he goes to be honest, not necessarily happy but not disappointed. He's shown some moments of quality but he's also shown he still needs a hell of a lot of work. He struggles to play down the middle but doesn't seem to like playing wide and isn't a winger. His performance levels and commitment gradually got worse as the season went on and if there's been a bid from the Premier League then his head is going to be well and truly turned (again, probably). What would you do in his position? I know what I'd do, after spending a season and a half at a club. We were either going to get Grant to play a role in a team pushing for a return to the PL, or the alternative for him was to use us as a springboard. No issues if we sell him, good luck to the lad. Did OK for us, but sadly, he hasn't had the sort of impact as Stewart or Rhodes, plus a few more if you go back a little further, Duncan Shearer etc. I'd go without question if the opportunity was there (I'm not sure I said otherwise) because I'm not convinced at the moment his stock will be higher than it is now plus he has no real affinity to the club. I've nothing against him going or wanting to go or us wanting to cash in on him while we can. |
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