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Post by impact on Feb 17, 2021 10:32:14 GMT 1
All those sticking up for Hoyle need to remember the bile he fomented against Davy, the ‘lime green army’ bollocks he helped unleash when Davy wanted the money he’d invested back. The jackboot army of delusional ‘pole suckers’ he was happy to see causing havoc, publishing private email addresses etc. Exactly the same process is going on now but apparently Hoyle is beyond reproach. It’s hypocritical bullshit. Hoyle himself set out the template for how we should act at an owner wanting their own funds back from the club. There's a big difference. Hoyle made his 75% to be returned part of the takeover deal. The new owner knew exactly what the deal was when he signed. Davy leveraged his to stadium shares that he had silently transferred to himself in the first place. The new owner did not know that's how he was wanting to get his money back.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 10:34:36 GMT 1
The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Why would anyone want to own any club? Why would a billionaire want to own Barnsley or Brentford? There are always folks wanting to buy football clubs, it's good for their ego. Mark my words, Hoyle will get his money back, Phil will sell the club and make a profit and a new owner will come in. Its happened since 1908, it wont stop now. big ern your overall comments are correct yes there has been mistakes made but who doesnt make them but for me Carlos has to stay even if we go down if the club believe as ph does that he is the right fit then sacking him would show a lack of backbone. the vitriol comments and language on here regarding owner coach playeres etc are disgusting and while i totally share the frustration and despite this horrible run we are having i firmly believe we have to stick together and have some stability. what ever happens some who are out of contract wil leave and i can only see a couple who will be retained on the extra year option. the people on here who shout and call the club would be better off reflecting what is really important and with this covid all clubs are going to have to cut costs before people are back in grounds because thgat is a long way of despite the vaccines which are badly needed
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Post by Teddington Ted on Feb 17, 2021 10:34:38 GMT 1
Not really. Does Phil know how the club will get Canalside back or full ownership of the club?
If you think a successful businessman like Hoyle had failed to do due diligence on what he was buying I believe you to be mistaken.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 17, 2021 10:38:34 GMT 1
Make yourself a banner and get down to Canalside then. It sounds like it'll make you feel better. As suggested, who would be your alternative Chairperson, who no doubt you would be making another banner for in due course? That’s a pretty childish argument. I don’t like Boris Johnson; should I run for PM?! I’ll say it again, if you’re happy with the current shit show fair enough. Many Town fans aren’t. Supporting a football club is a passionate thing. I just don’t understand how two supposed supporters who have the absolute privilege of owning the club we love can run it to line their pockets and serve their egos. How can you talk about childish comments, then post that infantile rubbish? Tell me how either of these 'supposed' supporters with this privilege of running 'our' club have run it to line their own pockets? Tell us all about the money theyve made? You clearly have a huge understanding of how finances work so explaining where their profits have been should be easy. Of course you cant, because its absolute horseshit on any level, so perhaps you should get the banners made up. I suggest that timeless favourite of the idiot fan " sack the board" or how about getting straight to the point with the more entitled 'give us your money, we deserve it!'
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Post by mids on Feb 17, 2021 10:48:37 GMT 1
All those sticking up for Hoyle need to remember the bile he fomented against Davy, the ‘lime green army’ bollocks he helped unleash when Davy wanted the money he’d invested back. The jackboot army of delusional ‘pole suckers’ he was happy to see causing havoc, publishing private email addresses etc. Exactly the same process is going on now but apparently Hoyle is beyond reproach. It’s hypocritical bullshit. Hoyle himself set out the template for how we should act at an owner wanting their own funds back from the club. Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match.
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Feb 17, 2021 10:51:04 GMT 1
You are wrong Mids - Hoyle's reputation should be based on where the club is when he left. It really should. Don't just look at that short "ride" you mention, look at the table tonight, look at our financial position, look at the contracts those wasters were given - a lot of them weren't there ?, look at the majority of supporters feelings' towards our club, look at the abject amateurish way we left the Premier league - an embarrassment,look at what happened to the parachute payments, look at the tens and tens of millions wasted etc etc, THEN talk about the reputation he leaves. Where he took us is certainly part of it, where he left us is unfortunately so much more important. The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets If this was happening don't think there would be as much vitriol going on. I'm not bothered if PH has no cash (side issue) but this club one way or another has had more cash go through it than in the previous 100 years even with Wages, DH taking money back, covid you can't tell me we are in a worse position than any other club who have gone and made necessary investments in the playing staff to help protect long term security/position of the club.
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Post by artysid on Feb 17, 2021 10:53:32 GMT 1
You are wrong Mids - Hoyle's reputation should be based on where the club is when he left. It really should. Don't just look at that short "ride" you mention, look at the table tonight, look at our financial position, look at the contracts those wasters were given - a lot of them weren't there ?, look at the majority of supporters feelings' towards our club, look at the abject amateurish way we left the Premier league - an embarrassment,look at what happened to the parachute payments, look at the tens and tens of millions wasted etc etc, THEN talk about the reputation he leaves. Where he took us is certainly part of it, where he left us is unfortunately so much more important. The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Surely the decline began with the mistakes of the 2018 summer transfer widow?
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 17, 2021 10:54:53 GMT 1
The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets If this was happening don't think there would be as much vitriol going on. I'm not bothered if PH has no cash (side issue) but this club one way or another has had more cash go through it than in the previous 100 years even with Wages, DH taking money back, covid you can't tell me we are in a worse position than any other club who have gone and made necessary investments in the playing staff to help protect long term security/position of the club. Only time will tell.
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Post by Teddington Ted on Feb 17, 2021 10:55:00 GMT 1
All those sticking up for Hoyle need to remember the bile he fomented against Davy, the ‘lime green army’ bollocks he helped unleash when Davy wanted the money he’d invested back. The jackboot army of delusional ‘pole suckers’ he was happy to see causing havoc, publishing private email addresses etc. Exactly the same process is going on now but apparently Hoyle is beyond reproach. It’s hypocritical bullshit. Hoyle himself set out the template for how we should act at an owner wanting their own funds back from the club. Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match. To sum up: People who’s fault it is that we have a threadbare squad and no pot to piss in: the players, the manager, the coaching staff, the man who sold us in 2008. People who’s fault it isn’t: the chairman, the former chairman.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 10:58:33 GMT 1
All those sticking up for Hoyle need to remember the bile he fomented against Davy, the ‘lime green army’ bollocks he helped unleash when Davy wanted the money he’d invested back. The jackboot army of delusional ‘pole suckers’ he was happy to see causing havoc, publishing private email addresses etc. Exactly the same process is going on now but apparently Hoyle is beyond reproach. It’s hypocritical bullshit. Hoyle himself set out the template for how we should act at an owner wanting their own funds back from the club. Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match. You keep mentioning this 'prolonged period'. How do you define that? Look, Dean is hardly short of money. He could've set the terms at £1m a year for 45 years. Or he could've said "You know what, that Mids is right. I did say I'd fund my own train set. So just repay me what I put in during the PL years. As I've said on record many times, I was prepared to stand the Div 1 and Championship years. So just give me what I put in for the last two when spending went crazy." As well you know, parachute payments are so-named to provide a soft landing for clubs that have been relegated. They are there to ensure clubs don't financially self-implode. They are NOT there to repay former chairmen. By using them to do so, the club is at risk of self-implosion that such payments are meant to prevent. And nobody will know this more than the two guys at the top of the deal. It just seems a sad, sad end to what was shaping up to be such a legacy for a boyhood fan.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 17, 2021 11:01:52 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle who ran the club for many seasons would have surely known that the money he took out of the club ie parachute payments was vital for team re building at the time.
Certainly a case here for businessman first -- town fan second .
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 17, 2021 11:02:12 GMT 1
The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Surely the decline began with the mistakes of the 2018 summer transfer widow? Not disputing that but we were on a wing and a prayer in the Premiership it was a case of when we drop for me not if. Mistakes have been made but all the good decisions that got us up, got the clubs shares back, set us up as a family club, Canalside, all that good long term stuff just doesn’t seem to matter to many when we are on a poor run. DATM doesn’t really do balance and once the knives are out some ‘supporters’ on here just think it is open season on Phil & Dean. I find that very disappointing.
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 17, 2021 11:06:34 GMT 1
Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match. You keep mentioning this 'prolonged period'. How do you define that? Look, Dean is hardly short of money. He could've set the terms at £1m a year for 45 years. As well you know, parachute payments are son-named to provide a soft landing for clubs that have been relegated. They are there to ensure clubs don't financially self-implode. They are NOT there to repay former chairmen. By using them to do so, the club is at risk of self-implosion that such payments are meant to prevent. And nobody will know this more than the two guys at the top of the deal. It just seems a sad, sad end to what was shaping up to be such a legacy for a boyhood fan. I don’t think, after his illness, he sees his longevity in terms of 45 years or probably anywhere near. That will have redefined his priorities I think. No matter what he had done the shit would have been waiting there to be the thrown, it always seems to be that way for some fans.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 11:08:47 GMT 1
You keep mentioning this 'prolonged period'. How do you define that? Look, Dean is hardly short of money. He could've set the terms at £1m a year for 45 years. As well you know, parachute payments are son-named to provide a soft landing for clubs that have been relegated. They are there to ensure clubs don't financially self-implode. They are NOT there to repay former chairmen. By using them to do so, the club is at risk of self-implosion that such payments are meant to prevent. And nobody will know this more than the two guys at the top of the deal. It just seems a sad, sad end to what was shaping up to be such a legacy for a boyhood fan. I don’t think, after his illness, he sees his longevity in terms of 45 years or probably anywhere near. That will have redefined his priorities I think. No matter what he had done the shit would have been waiting there to be the thrown, it always seems to be that way for some fans. In such case, he's got even less need of the money. He could live to be 1000 and not spend it all. If anything, an agreement like the one I mentioned provides a long-term assurance for his family.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 17, 2021 11:10:57 GMT 1
That’s a pretty childish argument. I don’t like Boris Johnson; should I run for PM?! I’ll say it again, if you’re happy with the current shit show fair enough. Many Town fans aren’t. Supporting a football club is a passionate thing. I just don’t understand how two supposed supporters who have the absolute privilege of owning the club we love can run it to line their pockets and serve their egos. How can you talk about childish comments, then post that infantile rubbish? Tell me how either of these 'supposed' supporters with this privilege of running 'our' club have run it to line their own pockets? Tell us all about the money theyve made? You clearly have a huge understanding of how finances work so explaining where their profits have been should be easy. Of course you cant, because its absolute horseshit on any level, so perhaps you should get the banners made up. I suggest that timeless favourite of the idiot fan " sack the board" or how about getting straight to the point with the more entitled 'give us your money, we deserve it!' Just out of interest, does anyone know if these were interest free loans? If not then he has lined his pockets with the clubs money. Just a thought, not saying he has.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 17, 2021 11:24:53 GMT 1
Surely every town fan can see how vital the parachute money was for re building when town got relegated from the premier league and also this was vital to secure the clubs future.
Sadly town still have many of the overpriced mistakes on the books that contribute little or nothing to the team , and something will have to give next season with these players especially if relegated
What i want is whats best for the club and what i am seeing over recent seasons has certainly lost me interest in football after well over 50 years
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Feb 17, 2021 11:28:46 GMT 1
Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match. You keep mentioning this 'prolonged period'. How do you define that? Look, Dean is hardly short of money. He could've set the terms at £1m a year for 45 years. Or he could've said "You know what, that Mids is right. I did say I'd fund my own train set. So just repay me what I put in during the PL years. As I've said on record many times, I was prepared to stand the Div 1 and Championship years. So just give me what I put in for the last two when spending went crazy." As well you know, parachute payments are so-named to provide a soft landing for clubs that have been relegated. They are there to ensure clubs don't financially self-implode. They are NOT there to repay former chairmen. By using them to do so, the club is at risk of self-implosion that such payments are meant to prevent. And nobody will know this more than the two guys at the top of the deal. It just seems a sad, sad end to what was shaping up to be such a legacy for a boyhood fan. It could have been a smarter move to get the money repaid at a lower level over a longer period of time as he could have set up a Trust where it is repaid to with his wife and kids as Trustees and basically give them a long term steady income on top of whatever else happens in their life. I will stop talking about the commercial side though as it is getting toxic on here and as none of us can do anything about it I can’t be bothered with that wasted energy
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Post by mids on Feb 17, 2021 11:32:23 GMT 1
Have you been drinking meths? None of that makes any sense whatsoever. Davy gifted himself the 40% HTFC share in the stadium for a nominal value of £2 - "put on a shelf". He then demanded £2 million to take them back off the shelf, after already relinquishing control of the football club. How is that the same? if Town had never got to the Premier League under his stewardship then he wouldn't have taken any money back, as we were spending an amount that was acceptable to him and his family. The club was his "train set". However, we did reach 'the promised land'. We did receive shedloads of money. But we also spent a chuffing fortune. Our record transfer fee spent increased from £1.8 million to around £15 million for Mounie. The wage bill increased existentially as well. Dean Hoyle funded a lot of that at levels beyond the acceptability of him and his family. In the second season things went wrong. The football was poor, Wagner lost his mojo, Dean got gravely ill, and there was nobody at the club capable of stepping up to cover for him. He wanted to sell, and he needed to sell. He arranged a deal that was acceptable to both parties and he arranged to receive part of his spend/investment back over a prolonged period of time. If he had left the funds in do you, or anyone, truly believe that HTFC would have continued spending millions on players and their inflated contracts....even before the effects of covid? The bile directed at Dean (and Phil) is frankly embarrassing for supposed grown ups. By all means be upset at Town's abysmal last few weeks but don't blindly blame either of those two custodians as being the sole reason for things slipping. It's been a consequence of many factors, and chiefly the players (most of whom are Championship class) making mistakes, being injured, or not caring enough - and the coaching team not being able to change things to the benefit of the team during a match. To sum up: People who’s fault it is that we have a threadbare squad and no pot to piss in: the players, the manager, the coaching staff, the man who sold us in 2008. People who’s fault it isn’t: the chairman, the former chairman. Davy was to blame for many things but even I wouldn't blame him for the current poor run of form. There's many things to blame for where the football club finds itself now, but it is not solely because Dean took some money out, or because Phil hasn't bought Lionel Messi.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 17, 2021 11:34:03 GMT 1
You keep mentioning this 'prolonged period'. How do you define that? Look, Dean is hardly short of money. He could've set the terms at £1m a year for 45 years. Or he could've said "You know what, that Mids is right. I did say I'd fund my own train set. So just repay me what I put in during the PL years. As I've said on record many times, I was prepared to stand the Div 1 and Championship years. So just give me what I put in for the last two when spending went crazy." As well you know, parachute payments are so-named to provide a soft landing for clubs that have been relegated. They are there to ensure clubs don't financially self-implode. They are NOT there to repay former chairmen. By using them to do so, the club is at risk of self-implosion that such payments are meant to prevent. And nobody will know this more than the two guys at the top of the deal. It just seems a sad, sad end to what was shaping up to be such a legacy for a boyhood fan. It could have been a smarter move to get the money repaid at a lower level over a longer period of time as he could have set up a Trust where it is repaid to with his wife and kids as Trustees and basically give them a long term steady income on top of whatever else happens in their life. I will stop talking about the commercial side though as it is getting toxic on here and as none of us can do anything about it I can’t be bothered with that wasted energy The final parachute payment money will soon run out especially how it is being sucked out of the club, and where do we go from there under Phil..
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Post by detox on Feb 17, 2021 11:36:59 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle who ran the club for many seasons would have surely known that the money he took out of the club ie parachute payments was vital for team re building at the time. Certainly a case here for businessman first -- town fan second . . I have a distant memory of the PL complaining about the amounts of SkyTV money going to relegated clubs in the form of parachute money...Their argument included an example (can't remember the clubs they mentioned) of the payments not going to where it was intended, ie to compensate for a massive reduction in incomes and to support players on PL contracts...but being hived off and used for other purposes.
I don't know what the outcome of this complaint was, if there was one but the clear message from the PL was that parachute money should be used for the purposes it was intended for. Repaying loans to club directors certainly wasn't part of the deal.
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Post by dynastydan on Feb 17, 2021 11:40:35 GMT 1
You are wrong Mids - Hoyle's reputation should be based on where the club is when he left. It really should. Don't just look at that short "ride" you mention, look at the table tonight, look at our financial position, look at the contracts those wasters were given - a lot of them weren't there ?, look at the majority of supporters feelings' towards our club, look at the abject amateurish way we left the Premier league - an embarrassment,look at what happened to the parachute payments, look at the tens and tens of millions wasted etc etc, THEN talk about the reputation he leaves. Where he took us is certainly part of it, where he left us is unfortunately so much more important. The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Aabsokute bollocks. Sick and tired of people using his illness as an excuse. Is DH the only businessman to fall ill? Does pancreatitis affect your decision to sell to an absolute moron? Abuse towards their running of the club and how the sale happened is deserved. Abuse towards them or families, I agree, is out of order. They are 2 crooks who have absolutely ruined our club. Majority of fans work hard all week to earn the money for SC and merchandise etc for these 2 to basically laugh at us whilst lining their own pockets. I for one have struggled by this season and the £250 I paid could have gone elsewhere. What is this clown PH going to do about my SC next season? Unless it's free as I have paid for a service and recieved nothing so want another in return m, I'm done. I cant wait for PH to shit his pants when only around 3 or 4 thousand renew.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 17, 2021 11:45:40 GMT 1
How can you talk about childish comments, then post that infantile rubbish? Tell me how either of these 'supposed' supporters with this privilege of running 'our' club have run it to line their own pockets? Tell us all about the money theyve made? You clearly have a huge understanding of how finances work so explaining where their profits have been should be easy. Of course you cant, because its absolute horseshit on any level, so perhaps you should get the banners made up. I suggest that timeless favourite of the idiot fan " sack the board" or how about getting straight to the point with the more entitled 'give us your money, we deserve it!' Just out of interest, does anyone know if these were interest free loans? If not then he has lined his pockets with the clubs money. Just a thought, not saying he has. The fact hes only likely to get back about 77% of what he put in would suggest not.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 17, 2021 11:46:43 GMT 1
Dean Hoyle who ran the club for many seasons would have surely known that the money he took out of the club ie parachute payments was vital for team re building at the time. Certainly a case here for businessman first -- town fan second . . I have a distant memory of the PL complaining about the amounts of SkyTV money going to relegated clubs in the form of parachute money...Their argument included an example (can't remember the clubs they mentioned) of the payments not going to where it was intended, ie to compensate for a massive reduction in incomes and to support players on PL contracts...but being hived off and used for other purposes.
I don't know what the outcome of this complaint was, if there was one but the clear message from the PL was that parachute money should be used for the purposes it was intended for. Repaying loans to club directors certainly wasn't part of the deal.
Exactly right and cant understand why the fans didnt kick off at the time especially as the money sucked out of the club ie parachute payments was vital for the clubs future. Hoyle did amazing things on the way up but surely knew that money taken when relegated would eventually contribute to the problems we see today Nobody is bigger than our wonderful club
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 17, 2021 11:49:20 GMT 1
The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Aabsokute bollocks. Sick and tired of people using his illness as an excuse. Is DH the only businessman to fall ill? Does pancreatitis affect your decision to sell to an absolute moron? Abuse towards their running of the club and how the sale happened is deserved. Abuse towards them or families, I agree, is out of order. They are 2 crooks who have absolutely ruined our club. Majority of fans work hard all week to earn the money for SC and merchandise etc for these 2 to basically laugh at us whilst lining their own pockets.I for one have struggled by this season and the £250 I paid could have gone elsewhere. What is this clown PH going to do about my SC next season? Unless it's free as I have paid for a service and recieved nothing so want another in return m, I'm done. I cant wait for PH to shit his pants when only around 3 or 4 thousand renew. Congratulations. In amongst all the infantile entitlement and tantruming, that has to be the single most stupid comment yet. Libellous , inaccurate and stupid all in one go
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 11:49:46 GMT 1
Just out of interest, does anyone know if these were interest free loans? If not then he has lined his pockets with the clubs money. Just a thought, not saying he has. The fact hes only likely to get back about 77% of what he put in would suggest not. But he definitely still owns 25% of a debt-free club. You keep conveniently missing that point when you labour on about him maybe not getting 100% back.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Feb 17, 2021 11:55:29 GMT 1
The fact hes only likely to get back about 77% of what he put in would suggest not. But he definitely still owns 25% of a debt-free club. You keep conveniently missing that point when you labour on about him maybe not getting 100% back. Maybe debt free at the moment but wont be long before the money runs out the way things are going. The club needs to seriously invest in better players if they want to move onwards and upwards so where is this money coming from under Hodgkinson
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 17, 2021 11:56:51 GMT 1
The decline really kicked in when he was ill. He was in ICU for a long time and the road back from pancreatitis is not a quick or easy one. We are great at accepting someone’s money and time, both given without any guarantees of repayment, but as soon as things aren’t so good the knives come out. Mistakes were made but we were hardly the first promoted club to make them, and a lot of ‘bigger’ clubs have as well. Phil took over on request as Dean wasn’t well enough to continue. Why some people expect him to pump millions of his own money in I really don’t know. Most businesses are built on loans and reinvesting profits, not in somebody with bottomless pockets Personally I cannot imagine why anyone would want to own this club. Many of the comments made about both these guys on here are a disgrace and, for me, should be challenged. If I were Phil I would look for someone to offload the club onto and once things return to some form of normality he may do that. Earlier this season it looked like CC was turning us around. The long term injuries have been a huge problem, and we should done some better business, but if we had managed to keep a decent balance of wins and loses we wouldn’t have all this crap thrown at the owners. We may go down and if we do then it will be Carlos building us back from Div 1, not ideal but we have been in worse places. It is just a football club. Aabsokute bollocks. Sick and tired of people using his illness as an excuse. Is DH the only businessman to fall ill? Does pancreatitis affect your decision to sell to an absolute moron? Abuse towards their running of the club and how the sale happened is deserved. Abuse towards them or families, I agree, is out of order. They are 2 crooks who have absolutely ruined our club. Majority of fans work hard all week to earn the money for SC and merchandise etc for these 2 to basically laugh at us whilst lining their own pockets. I for one have struggled by this season and the £250 I paid could have gone elsewhere. What is this clown PH going to do about my SC next season? Unless it's free as I have paid for a service and recieved nothing so want another in return m, I'm done. I cant wait for PH to shit his pants when only around 3 or 4 thousand renew. This is the type of post I am referring to. You have no idea but think it is your God given right to spout off anyway. I have a friend who had the same thing. He was weeks on ICU, as was Dean, and took probably a year to recover and has not got back to his pre-illness health. You literally have no clue.
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 17, 2021 11:59:50 GMT 1
I don’t think, after his illness, he sees his longevity in terms of 45 years or probably anywhere near. That will have redefined his priorities I think. No matter what he had done the shit would have been waiting there to be the thrown, it always seems to be that way for some fans. In such case, he's got even less need of the money. He could live to be 1000 and not spend it all. If anything, an agreement like the one I mentioned provides a long-term assurance for his family. If he feels the club can now be self sustaining why not take his money out? That was always where he wanted us to be. The only issue is his definition and supporters, and he probably has a closer view than us.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2021 12:06:06 GMT 1
Another match thread that has turned into a Dean/Hodgkinson debate.. 😴
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Post by rugbyterrier on Feb 17, 2021 12:07:44 GMT 1
In such case, he's got even less need of the money. He could live to be 1000 and not spend it all. If anything, an agreement like the one I mentioned provides a long-term assurance for his family. If he feels the club can now be self sustaining why not take his money out? That was always where he wanted us to be. The only issue is his definition and supporters, and he probably has a closer view than us. Self sustaining at what level? Are there any self sustaining clubs in the top six divisions or even further down the pyramid? I will leave that to the more fiscally minded and get back to my painting.
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