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Post by Terrier Ramone on Feb 27, 2021 19:13:20 GMT 1
I have literally just spent the last 10 minutes working on a long post talking about our woes....I've just scrapped it & all I'll say is we are a club in turmoil right now & it's an absolute disgrace that we have been mis-managed in to this position.
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Post by Grim on Feb 27, 2021 19:16:06 GMT 1
Never a case of Hoyle eventually getting his money back but the parachute money he sucked out of the club at the time was for vital rebuilding A person like Hoyle who had run the club for many years would surely have realised that but to me the timing was so so wrong. What you a seeing is businessman first --- town fan second and sadly we have ended up with a damp squib in Hodgkinson who will take the club to the lower levels. Feel so sorry for Carlos as wrong time for him Hoyle admitted in an interview that his first thought when the whistle went against Chelsea was... ‘yes, another year of’ premier league money!!’ Yes he actually said that and that says everything about him. He allowed a wage and transfer budget that could only be afforded if the club had the parachute payments to pay it. He should never have sold the club on terms which meant we would have to sell so many players so quickly without adequate replacements. If he wanted the money that he never expected back in a million years then he should have started taking it back when we were in the premier league.
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Post by herefordaway on Feb 27, 2021 19:16:17 GMT 1
Is it Phils fault, is it Carlos fault or even is it Covid fault. The only critism I would make of Phil is that he should have borrowed vast sums of money at high interst rates to buy players and pay them big bucks. Its working for Birmingham, Wednesday, Derby and if it all gors wrong just put the club in Administration and walk away. Yes I might be being sarcastic or I might be prediction the future for these clubs! But if Hoyle's money was only ever a loan, isn't that exactly how he was behaving for a decade? Spending way more than we could have ever hoped to repay? You can't have it both ways. We had a budget well above our income for all that time. We assumed because it wasn't a loan. If it was a loan it was reckless in the extreme, and the only reason we still exist is because we landed lucky getting to the Prem. Which is it? Cant ever have been a loan for me,it was Hoyle just having fun because he could afford it and would never have got it back.I guess getting to the premier league changed it.
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 27, 2021 19:17:51 GMT 1
He never played for us in Lg1, but he was plenty good enough for Scunthorpe in that division. You're absolutely right. I do apologise. He's still shit though. Why do we still keep picking on individuals? We need a good centre back who can command the back line. If you don't let goals in you have a better chance of winning and our heads don't drop and we keep plugging away at the opposition. We let too many goals in and it puts huge pressure on the forward players to claw it back. Holmes is a decent player but all decent players need to play in a decent team and we haven't got that. Stop picking on individuals when the team is what is failing.
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Post by TommyTheTerrier on Feb 27, 2021 19:18:51 GMT 1
But if Hoyle's money was only ever a loan, isn't that exactly how he was behaving for a decade? Spending way more than we could have ever hoped to repay? You can't have it both ways. We had a budget well above our income for all that time. We assumed because it wasn't a loan. If it was a loan it was reckless in the extreme, and the only reason we still exist is because we landed lucky getting to the Prem. Which is it? Cant ever have been a loan for me,it was Hoyle just having fun because he could afford it and would never have got it back.I guess getting to the premier league changed it. Nobody takes over a League One club, especially as a fan, to make money. Heart over head decision that changed with the money coming in.
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Post by araucaria on Feb 27, 2021 19:19:34 GMT 1
As Corporal Jones once said...."Don't panic" - remember we are not sleepwalking into relegation and we have our ace up the sleeve - the 5 strikers including non other than the Golden boy himself.......so put ya bag of spogs down there Danny and come on down...before we go down and then you can fuck off someone else on an obscene amount of wage and do absolutely fuck all ! Carlos has 2 games at most - that will leave us 12 to get Pulis in to save our arses Pulis couldn't fail to improve the defence and we might score the odd goal, but paying his wages and paying Carlos and his mariachi band off might be too much for our Chairman to countenance. If it were to be done, it had better be done quickly, or Scoffa will lose us games as caretaker manager, as Shakespeare might have said. Might Craig Shakespeare be available?
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Post by tafftheterrier on Feb 27, 2021 19:19:53 GMT 1
But if Hoyle's money was only ever a loan, isn't that exactly how he was behaving for a decade? Spending way more than we could have ever hoped to repay? You can't have it both ways. We had a budget well above our income for all that time. We assumed because it wasn't a loan. If it was a loan it was reckless in the extreme, and the only reason we still exist is because we landed lucky getting to the Prem. Which is it? Cant ever have been a loan for me,it was Hoyle just having fun because he could afford it and would never have got it back.I guess getting to the premier league changed it. k Absolutely cock on
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Post by Grim on Feb 27, 2021 19:22:02 GMT 1
Weren’t we his train set or something ?
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 27, 2021 19:27:16 GMT 1
Marcus Evans at Ipswich writing off over 100 million, Hoyle at town writing off nothing. But is that because he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting his money back so he is writing it off against tax, as Rubery probably did?
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Post by richhtfc on Feb 27, 2021 19:28:14 GMT 1
I've had enough of Mbenza. No flair, no effort, no penetration. He's happy to do the minimum possible and collect his pay cheque like far too many of the players It’s a big problem this, we’re relying on a few senior players who know as well as we do they’ll have to find a new employer in three months. It’s not really a surprise that they’re not busting a gut. The board has gambled we have enough quality and at the moment things aren’t looking good. I still have hope we will get the results we need but it’s waning.
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Post by impact on Feb 27, 2021 19:30:24 GMT 1
Marcus Evans at Ipswich writing off over 100 million, Hoyle at town writing off nothing. Stop just posting this without context. Evans is worth 800m. He's been charging 5.4% interest on that loan. He didn't take over Ipswich and earn them more money than they've ever earned before in their history. And he's getting £30m for the club as well as keeping control of the training ground and a development site.
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Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
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Post by Melc on Feb 27, 2021 19:30:32 GMT 1
I have literally just spent the last 10 minutes working on a long post talking about our woes....I've just scrapped it & all I'll say is we are a club in turmoil right now & it's an absolute disgrace that we have been mis-managed in to this position. Just what I was thinking, I recon I would get banned from here if I wrote exactly what I thought. 5 points from 33 is certain relegation form, and sadly I don’t see anything changing now!
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Post by hgterrier on Feb 27, 2021 19:32:27 GMT 1
You're absolutely right. I do apologise. He's still shit though. Why do we still keep picking on individuals? We need a good centre back who can command the back line. If you don't let goals in you have a better chance of winning and our heads don't drop and we keep plugging away at the opposition. We let too many goals in and it puts huge pressure on the forward players to claw it back. Holmes is a decent player but all decent players need to play in a decent team and we haven't got that. Stop picking on individuals when the team is what is failing. Picking on individuals? I didn't. If you look back I picked on 6 of them.
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Post by rphyorks on Feb 27, 2021 19:33:51 GMT 1
Weren’t we his train set or something ? yes ..but it looks like he has decided to sell his train set.. a bit like getting rid of stuff at the car boot sale... ( but he is getting back all his money...no depreciation )
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Post by stevvy on Feb 27, 2021 19:35:40 GMT 1
Couple big games this midweek. Us v Brum (19th v 21st) on Tuesday, Wendies v Rotherham (22nd v 23rd) on Wednesday.
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Feb 27, 2021 19:36:34 GMT 1
Stop defending the indefensible, Hoyle despite what the blinkered might think has fucked us over and we all know it. I'm not defending anything. I'm correcting clearly wrong statements. Ok prove they are not correct statements! he was very seriously ill so fair enough after recovery he sold 75% of shares to a mate who used club funds to acquire those shares as he isnt a fit and proper owner , Hoyle got most of his money back but it crippled the club financially and the new owner simply hasnt the investment to even stabilize the club never mind take it forward. Dean sold the shares for his, not in the interest or need of the team, the club or the fans but for his own gain and in doing started the sequence of downhill events, so he created all that happened since!
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Post by richhtfc on Feb 27, 2021 19:37:05 GMT 1
You're absolutely right. I do apologise. He's still shit though. Why do we still keep picking on individuals? We need a good centre back who can command the back line. If you don't let goals in you have a better chance of winning and our heads don't drop and we keep plugging away at the opposition. We let too many goals in and it puts huge pressure on the forward players to claw it back. Holmes is a decent player but all decent players need to play in a decent team and we haven't got that. Stop picking on individuals when the team is what is failing. I think we’ve got good centre backs, the issue to me is that the style depends on them getting forward with the ball a lot and that means we’re vulnerable to mistakes and counter attacks. They’ve got to get better at reading the game. I think this team really misses an Eiting type player who can control the tempo. We just about cope with Hogg but without either of them it feels like we’re all attack or all defence, and we’re asking the centre half’s to control the tempo.
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Post by impact on Feb 27, 2021 19:39:08 GMT 1
I'm not defending anything. I'm correcting clearly wrong statements. Ok prove they are not correct statements! he was very seriously ill so fair enough after recovery he sold 75% of shares to a mate who used club funds to acquire those shares as he isnt a fit and proper owner , Hoyle got most of his money back but it crippled the club financially and the new owner simply hasnt the investment to even stabilize the club never mind take it forward. Dean sold the shares for his, not in the interest or need of the team, the club or the fans but for his own gain and in doing started the sequence of downhill events, so he created all that happened since! It's very simple why they aren't correct statements. After all the scheduled repayments he will still have £10m in the club. He may have more as he had 7.5m of debt converted to shares, so it depends how much Phil paid for the club. He has not got all his money back and kept 25% of the club. That is a lie.
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Post by BlueValour on Feb 27, 2021 19:40:49 GMT 1
And that 300m has never been confirmed I don't think. It came from when he sold the card factory but I don't think he was the sole shareholder. 50:50 with Mrs Hoyle IIRC.
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Post by bluesandtwos on Feb 27, 2021 19:43:50 GMT 1
Why do we still keep picking on individuals? We need a good centre back who can command the back line. If you don't let goals in you have a better chance of winning and our heads don't drop and we keep plugging away at the opposition. We let too many goals in and it puts huge pressure on the forward players to claw it back. Holmes is a decent player but all decent players need to play in a decent team and we haven't got that. Stop picking on individuals when the team is what is failing. Picking on individuals? I didn't. If you look back I picked on 6 of them. When did 6 individuals stop being individuals?
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Feb 27, 2021 19:45:42 GMT 1
Lent? He constantly said he was putting money in and didn't expect it back. He said Janet had given him x and he was playing with it. Clubs do their brains. We won't do our brains. We've done our brains, I'll have my cash back. Even though I'm part of the shambles and the cash being spaffed quicker than an 18yo in a brothel. I've said it before, but Dean said he was happy to spend what was needed to be a L1 and Championship club with no expectation of a return. We then lucked out and found ourselves in the Premier League. And that meant Dean had to spend more than expected. So why not just take back the unexpected PL expenses? Not all the money from the previous 10 years when you told us all that it was your "train set" that you could and would pay with no expectation of return. Edit: I expect Mids and Slapper to come along soon to tell me why I'm all wrong and we should be waving yellow and black scarves because we've had a chairman whose greed has hamstrung the club[/b] Those Hoyle stooges wont come on here, the Messiah did and can do no wrong ....very loud about Davey, the sale to Hoyle and the stadium share issue and its controversy. What about the share sale issue that went on between Hoyle and his mate Hodgkinson was that bona fida and all above board, bloody hypocrites !
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Post by BlueValour on Feb 27, 2021 19:47:21 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad!
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Wagner Uber Alles
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Unterstützt die Stadt seit 1970.
Posts: 1,574
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Feb 27, 2021 19:49:33 GMT 1
You're absolutely right. I do apologise. He's still shit though. Why do we still keep picking on individuals? We need a good centre back who can command the back line. If you don't let goals in you have a better chance of winning and our heads don't drop and we keep plugging away at the opposition. We let too many goals in and it puts huge pressure on the forward players to claw it back. Holmes is a decent player but all decent players need to play in a decent team and we haven't got that. Stop picking on individuals when the team is what is failing. And this is what the Cowleys and most other managers understand, but not CC and perhaps not even Phil.
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Post by herefordaway on Feb 27, 2021 19:51:38 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! Beat Birmingham and itll look a lot better
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Feb 27, 2021 19:54:14 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! Beat Birmingham and itll look a lot better It does but lose and it looks a lot worse.
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Post by willo on Feb 27, 2021 19:57:11 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! Beat Birmingham and itll look a lot better Crunch time. We simply have to win, no 2 ways about it. Lose and I think Carlos has had it, lose heavily and it won’t be in doubt.
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,275
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Post by Wingman on Feb 27, 2021 20:01:33 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! What?! Get yourself some paracetemol buddy, sounds like you have a temperature...
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Post by araucaria on Feb 27, 2021 20:25:20 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! Beat Birmingham and itll look a lot better On the 'we never win at Boro/Derby/Preston' principle (51 matches and 150 years collectively), we now get Brum who we last beat at home in 1996 (our depreciating asset was amongst the goals and Bruce on the other side), with 6 draws and 4 defeats in the league since and Cardiff, last beaten in 2003 and 4 draws and 9 defeats home and away in the league since. We did end the 8 match blank run at home to Wednesday, so maybe we can repeat the feat with these two, but I'll settle for 2 draws now.
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Post by kennyk2 on Feb 27, 2021 20:39:55 GMT 1
I am so down at the moment I can't even enjoy L88ds losing; its that's bad! Beat Birmingham and itll look a lot better I like the cut of your jib, but we may have to wait to meet them in L1 for that to happen. That club is really due a relegation though... spawny bastards.
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Post by andyeastleake on Feb 27, 2021 20:41:47 GMT 1
Well beaten by a team that is not good enough for the Champs themselves. Dare not look. My guess is two shots on target? About what we have averaged for 4 years. They are 13th. The previous five seasons they've finished 11th, 11th 7th, 14th & 9th. I know you're never f*****g wrong about anything and I'm the stupid one for attempting to debate with you.... ...... BUT.............. ........ what PRECISELY given the above draws you to the conclusion they're not good enough for the Champioship? Those statistics more than suggest they are to me. PS We had seven shots on target.
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