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Post by CaptainHart on Apr 21, 2021 12:34:57 GMT 1
I'm not surprised the wavering Abramovic and Mansour got cold feet when they saw Cyril Sneer Perez wittering on on Sunday night. They don't need it, hence their lukewarm response.
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Post by incognito on Apr 21, 2021 13:20:24 GMT 1
I'm not surprised the wavering Abramovic and Mansour got cold feet when they saw Cyril Sneer Perez wittering on on Sunday night. They don't need it, hence their lukewarm response. Right. While the other four sets of owners are sports investors, these two seem content ploughing in their limitless funds for the enjoyment and prestige of owning a successful team. They had to sign up initially to protect their hobby rather than risk getting left behind.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Apr 21, 2021 13:28:14 GMT 1
They don't need it, hence their lukewarm response. Right. While the other four sets of owners are sports investors, these two seem content ploughing in their limitless funds for the enjoyment and prestige of owning a successful team. They had to sign up initially to protect their hobby rather than risk getting left behind. I’m glad that peoples anger and dismay are now been channeled towards the owners and not the clubs involved. It is these people that deserve all the vitriol coming their way.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 21, 2021 14:18:28 GMT 1
Right. While the other four sets of owners are sports investors, these two seem content ploughing in their limitless funds for the enjoyment and prestige of owning a successful team. They had to sign up initially to protect their hobby rather than risk getting left behind. I’m glad that peoples anger and dismay are now been channeled towards the owners and not the clubs involved. It is these people that deserve all the vitriol coming their way. The abuse of liverpool players at elland road was as short sighted as it was predictable. Owners has become a dirty word, used to have chairmen and boards? At least some of them understood british football and the heritage.
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Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,838
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Post by Amigo on Apr 21, 2021 14:20:05 GMT 1
Perez moans about how much money they've lost then hours later it's revealed they're signing David Alaba. Free transfer yes but that only means a huge signing fee for player, agent and even more ridiculous wages. If you haven't got it don't spend it, it couldn't really be any simpler.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Apr 21, 2021 14:28:21 GMT 1
I agree but UEFA banned all English clubs for 5 years after Heysel (1985) which was an act of financial self harm. Prior to the ban English sides had won 7 of the last 8 European Cups When you look at the Heysel ban it was pretty unfair. Liverpool fans misbehaved so the rest of the country were punished as well - including fans, players etc I guess we might be arguing the same point - punishing the fans isn't really fair. However, the greedy owners haven't changed they've just lost this particular battle in their war to get more money. I think there has to be some sort of consequence and denying them entry into a competition they wanted to leave - while hitting them in the pocket - would be poetic justice Alternatively tell them they can compete in the UEFA competition but they forgo all prize money for 5 years and that will be redistributed in the football pyramid. They also lose all UEFA points so can expect more July matches for qaulification and lower seeding in group stages Dont think the ban on english clubs back then is a relevant precedent. In terms of the money involved and what UEFA were willing to lose with that ban, it wouldnt even begin to scratch the surface of the amounts involved today. I guess the precedent is that UEFA have previously banned the participation of the most successful clubs. By excluding the English champions - who were dominating the competition (7 champions in the last 8 years) - they also were prepared to make it a less competitive competition. However no one looks at the winners between 1986 and 1990 and say they only won it because English clubs were banned In terms of the financial hit to UEFA it will depend on the TV contracts for next season and whether there are guarantees around the involvement of the big clubs Broadcasters may not be as keen to cry foul - and gain negative PR - if there's a clamour to see the Greedy 12 punished. I'm not sure what the punishment should be. However to avoid them try something similar again in the future there needs to be some form of consequence for their actions
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 21, 2021 14:34:03 GMT 1
I think it will be a watershed moment in that these big clubs ( their owners anyway ) will look at things differently. They obviously were of the belief that they had the power here. That they could pretty much do what they wanted, and whilst everyone else might moan about it, they could say 'sod you' and just do it anyway. Well theyve been taught a big lesson in a quite spectacularly embarrassing way that that isnt the case. They might still crave a bigger slice of the pie ( even bigger than the one they already get ) but all the power has been shown to be elsewhere when push comes to shove. So I think they will forget any thought they have of going it alone. The best outcome would be that the billionaires and sovereign owners decide it’s not for them anymore and move on to something else. And if global tv audiences are finding football a bit stale which results in less tv money coming in then I don’t think that would be a terrible thing either, at least in English football where it’s all become a grotesque, overpaid tourist industry at the top of the game. I read the Real madrid owner saying this and apparently it is true. If anything hes missing the point of why it might be happening though. Surely lack of competitiveness is the main issue, with the same handful of clubs hoovering up the main chunk of wealth so that even clubs like Ajax, Benfica, and any of the eastern euopean ones just cant really compete anymore. None of the Portuguese clubs, Greek, Belgian etc etc etc. Theyre all only ever also rans. You have to go back to 2004 for any club other than these 12 self appointed 'elite' clubs or the 2 big german clubs who they will have wanted to join them even reached the final. Before that you had clubs like Ajax, Leverkusen, Belgrade, PSV, Bucharest, Sampdoria, Villa, Forest, Marseille, Porto, Brugge, Malmo etc etc all getting to the final. Suggest thats why people turn off from so much of this football.. because its generally a foregone certainty whos going to win. Now theyve made it like that, all these clubs wanted to do really was do away with all the faffing about before you get to that inevitable final stage of the same teams in the last stages each year. If they want people to watch again, try making it more competitive! Oh and the refereeing! People get fed up watching football where it is reffed as if its a non-contact sport. Sorting that out would go a long way to making it more watchable too.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 21, 2021 14:39:15 GMT 1
Dont think the ban on english clubs back then is a relevant precedent. In terms of the money involved and what UEFA were willing to lose with that ban, it wouldnt even begin to scratch the surface of the amounts involved today. I guess the precedent is that UEFA have previously banned the participation of the most successful clubs. By excluding the English champions - who were dominating the competition (7 champions in the last 8 years) - they also were prepared to make it a less competitive competition. However no one looks at the winners between 1986 and 1990 and say they only won it because English clubs were banned
In terms of the financial hit to UEFA it will depend on the TV contracts for next season and whether there are guarantees around the involvement of the big clubs Broadcasters may not be as keen to cry foul - and gain negative PR - if there's a clamour to see the Greedy 12 punished. I'm not sure what the punishment should be. However to avoid them try something similar again in the future there needs to be some form of consequence for their actions Dont they? I certainly would. Should be an esterix on the records- '* won with the best clubs not taking part'. Youre probably right though that they dont.. or choose not to. Bit like the italian teams of the 60s and 70s. Personally I'd put a little asterix next to all their european titles too because evidence suggests every one of them will have been won through bribery to a certain degree.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2021 14:46:52 GMT 1
The best outcome would be that the billionaires and sovereign owners decide it’s not for them anymore and move on to something else. And if global tv audiences are finding football a bit stale which results in less tv money coming in then I don’t think that would be a terrible thing either, at least in English football where it’s all become a grotesque, overpaid tourist industry at the top of the game. I read the Real madrid owner saying this and apparently it is true. If anything hes missing the point of why it might be happening though. Surely lack of competitiveness is the main issue, with the same handful of clubs hoovering up the main chunk of wealth so that even clubs like Ajax, Benfica, and any of the eastern euopean ones just cant really compete anymore. None of the Portuguese clubs, Greek, Belgian etc etc etc. Theyre all only ever also rans. You have to go back to 2004 for any club other than these 12 self appointed 'elite' clubs or the 2 big german clubs who they will have wanted to join them even reached the final. Before that you had clubs like Ajax, Leverkusen, Belgrade, PSV, Bucharest, Sampdoria, Villa, Forest, Marseille, Porto, Brugge, Malmo etc etc all getting to the final. Suggest thats why people turn off from so much of this football.. because its generally a foregone certainty whos going to win. Now theyve made it like that, all these clubs wanted to do really was do away with all the faffing about before you get to that inevitable final stage of the same teams in the last stages each year. If they want people to watch again, try making it more competitive! Oh and the refereeing! People get fed up watching football where it is reffed as if its a non-contact sport. Sorting that out would go a long way to making it more watchable too. Second main issue - I'd suggest the main issue is price. Especially in the UK - TV figures for European competitions, for example, have plummeted since it went behind a paywall, as opposed to free-to-air ITV. Which sounds really rather obvious; but pretty telling that bloodsucking leeches like Perez won't acknowledge it.
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goodbet
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Apr 21, 2021 14:54:10 GMT 1
The football authorities have proved to be incompetent over many years. You only have to look at how Derby and Wednesday have been let off the sanctions they faced for the rule breaking they have engaged in. When football was faced with this rebellion said everything is OK now when the wealthy clubs said that the separation was not going ahead. No fines or repercussions Just remember that business leaders are four times more likely to be psychopaths than the general population, a study has found. I don't see this as the end of the discussion but the planning to continue until they come back with another proposal that has a separate league altogether outside of UAFA.
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Post by CaptainHart on Apr 21, 2021 15:09:50 GMT 1
They don't need it, hence their lukewarm response. Right. While the other four sets of owners are sports investors, these two seem content ploughing in their limitless funds for the enjoyment and prestige of owning a successful team. They had to sign up initially to protect their hobby rather than risk getting left behind. Exactly my reading of it, PSG didn't even sign up, but then they'd have been the only French team so didn't have the 'left behind' problem.
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deepc
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by deepc on Apr 21, 2021 15:12:26 GMT 1
The best outcome would be that the billionaires and sovereign owners decide it’s not for them anymore and move on to something else. And if global tv audiences are finding football a bit stale which results in less tv money coming in then I don’t think that would be a terrible thing either, at least in English football where it’s all become a grotesque, overpaid tourist industry at the top of the game. I read the Real madrid owner saying this and apparently it is true. If anything hes missing the point of why it might be happening though. Surely lack of competitiveness is the main issue, with the same handful of clubs hoovering up the main chunk of wealth so that even clubs like Ajax, Benfica, and any of the eastern euopean ones just cant really compete anymore. None of the Portuguese clubs, Greek, Belgian etc etc etc. Theyre all only ever also rans. You have to go back to 2004 for any club other than these 12 self appointed 'elite' clubs or the 2 big german clubs who they will have wanted to join them even reached the final. Before that you had clubs like Ajax, Leverkusen, Belgrade, PSV, Bucharest, Sampdoria, Villa, Forest, Marseille, Porto, Brugge, Malmo etc etc all getting to the final. Suggest thats why people turn off from so much of this football.. because its generally a foregone certainty whos going to win. Now theyve made it like that, all these clubs wanted to do really was do away with all the faffing about before you get to that inevitable final stage of the same teams in the last stages each year. If they want people to watch again, try making it more competitive! Oh and the refereeing! People get fed up watching football where it is reffed as if its a non-contact sport. Sorting that out would go a long way to making it more watchable too. Agree with most of that. When it comes to TV games ,we have had saturation coverage these past few months. No wonder TV fans are feeling jaded. Definite case of More meaning less. Add into the mix the ongoing farce of VAR ,in games played without atmosphere, where we are treated to shrieks and screams of the mortally wounded players throwing themselves to the floor attempting to dupe some hapless official in front of a screen up in an industrial estate at Heathrow. Its all bollox. Cannot recall the last time I watched a full 90 mins live. I generally record and fast forward through it. Talking with the lads who I used to go to matches with ,most feel exactly the same.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Apr 21, 2021 15:16:11 GMT 1
The football authorities have proved to be incompetent over many years. You only have to look at how Derby and Wednesday have been let off the sanctions they faced for the rule breaking they have engaged in. When football was faced with this rebellion said everything is OK now when the wealthy clubs said that the separation was not going ahead. No fines or repercussions Just remember that business leaders are four times more likely to be psychopaths than the general population, a study has found. I don't see this as the end of the discussion but the planning to continue until they come back with another proposal that has a separate league altogether outside of UAFA. it will happen and soon. there is no way on this planet the owners of those clubs will turn down the kind of money on offer. They will now be drawing up new plans and making sure they are legally watertight. The fans haven't won at all. This is them saving face and buying themselves some time.
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Post by patrickbateman on Apr 21, 2021 16:00:42 GMT 1
I'd just like to thank all the foreign owners of the Big Six for coming to their senses and as Boris Johnson would say "doing what is right". The political intervention of our hero and the support he was given from a young member of the Royal Family was indeed a stroke of genius. It gave the fans hope and the outcome is like a super Brexit. All six say fuck off to Europe. Well, three did, the other three said Fack Orf. It also shows our love for the Premier League as it is. No one wanted it endangered, threatened or shaken up. And UEFA too stand there as moral beacons of decency, acknowledgement at last. So, I propose tonight we all stand at our doorsteps or on our balconies and give them all a jolly good round of applause. Saviours to our footballing nation. Amen!
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Post by sabailand on Apr 21, 2021 16:16:34 GMT 1
Right. While the other four sets of owners are sports investors, these two seem content ploughing in their limitless funds for the enjoyment and prestige of owning a successful team. They had to sign up initially to protect their hobby rather than risk getting left behind. I’m glad that peoples anger and dismay are now been channeled towards the owners and not the clubs involved. It is these people that deserve all the vitriol coming their way. One things for sure, and thats the fact some of these owners are going to have to lie low for a while, they`d get some horrible abuse if they were to attend games (when we`re allowed to), they just didnt realise the depth of feeling for the game in this country at all levels as they`re cocooned from it all in their home countries, but if they dont know now they`ll never know. As for the premier league, lots of remarks about how they should be docked points and fined etc, although its not going to be forgotten quickly i cant see that happening, we should just try to get on with things as they were because causing more problems (especially after the last year) just isnt good for football, lets just hope we ourselves can mount another promotion bid some time in the future, currently that admittedly looks unlikely, but its the hope that keeps us going.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Apr 21, 2021 16:40:03 GMT 1
I’m glad that peoples anger and dismay are now been channeled towards the owners and not the clubs involved. It is these people that deserve all the vitriol coming their way. The abuse of liverpool players at elland road was as short sighted as it was predictable. Owners has become a dirty word, used to have chairmen and boards? At least some of them understood british football and the heritage. Disagree the pressure aimed at the manager and players was important to magnify to them that they also need to do their bit in stopping this happening. Rightly or wrongly the Leeds fans applied pressure, klopp will of been fuming but you can bet your bottom dollar that and the flags been removed at anfield by the supporters made it certain to all that if this isn’t stopped everyone connected will be gettting hell from the fans. Klopp has so much power at Liverpool he and the players sitting back and not voicing their opinions would of been disastrous for the fans.
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Apr 21, 2021 16:44:25 GMT 1
I have just asked the FA if they intend to charge the six with bringing the game into disrepute. I am not holding my breath for a reply as I have emailed them previously and never had the courtesy of an acknowledgement or reply.
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Post by benhomly on Apr 21, 2021 16:52:44 GMT 1
I have just asked the FA if they intend to charge the six with bringing the game into disrepute. I am not holding my breath for a reply as I have emailed them previously and never had the courtesy of an acknowledgement or reply. But if they do give you the courtesy of a reply I'm sure they'll let you know before anyone else if they're going to charge them
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 21, 2021 16:53:14 GMT 1
The abuse of liverpool players at elland road was as short sighted as it was predictable. Owners has become a dirty word, used to have chairmen and boards? At least some of them understood british football and the heritage. Disagree the pressure aimed at the manager and players was important to magnify to them that they also need to do their bit in stopping this happening. Rightly or wrongly the Leeds fans applied pressure, klopp will of been fuming but you can bet your bottom dollar that and the flags been removed at anfield by the supporters made it certain to all that if this isn’t stopped everyone connected will be gettting hell from the fans. Klopp has so much power at Liverpool he and the players sitting back and not voicing their opinions would of been disastrous for the fans. Some of the abuse was vile, 99.9% was totally unwarranted towards the players and staff, it was pretty bloody obvious to all with ears and a brain that none of the staff had ever been consulted, never mind agreed that it was a good idea. The response from fans of clubs that were involved, not wannabes, was pretty strong and sufficient.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Apr 21, 2021 17:36:25 GMT 1
Some of the abuse was vile, 99.9% was totally unwarranted towards the players and staff, it was pretty bloody obvious to all with ears and a brain that none of the staff had ever been consulted, never mind agreed that it was a good idea. The response from fans of clubs that were involved, not wannabes, was pretty strong and sufficient. Not seen it but what was done to make it vile , and the comment about it not being their fault never said it was or it was right, but in any walk of life the protest is aimed at what is feasible to aim it at, and fair or not it makes a difference or can, anyone with a brain knows that. Nearly all protests are aimed at secondary opposition mainly the police, when half the time it’s the politicians it’s meant for ( just like this situation innocent employees - but in this case the players and managers voices could and would make a difference and staying silent would of not been enough.) .so fans applied pressure on them
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Post by El Mel on Apr 21, 2021 17:36:55 GMT 1
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Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 21, 2021 17:43:19 GMT 1
Some of the abuse was vile, 99.9% was totally unwarranted towards the players and staff, it was pretty bloody obvious to all with ears and a brain that none of the staff had ever been consulted, never mind agreed that it was a good idea. The response from fans of clubs that were involved, not wannabes, was pretty strong and sufficient. Not seen it but what was done to make it vile , and the comment about it not being their fault never said it was or it was right, but in any walk of life the protest is aimed at what is feasible to aim it at, and fair or not it makes a difference or can, anyone with a brain knows that. Nearly all protests are aimed at secondary opposition mainly the police. The target and only target were the owners, who were mostly thousands of miles away. The abuse was unnecessary. Aiming your displeasure at the wrong targets isnt ever really acceptable. Once it became a distinct possibility that the cup final this weekend could be cancelled and moves to remove the clubs from their league were seriously mooted then abusing liverpool footballers was merely a side show for some to get out in lockdown and chant some crap.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Apr 21, 2021 17:57:40 GMT 1
Not seen it but what was done to make it vile , and the comment about it not being their fault never said it was or it was right, but in any walk of life the protest is aimed at what is feasible to aim it at, and fair or not it makes a difference or can, anyone with a brain knows that. Nearly all protests are aimed at secondary opposition mainly the police. The target and only target were the owners, who were mostly thousands of miles away. The abuse was unnecessary. Aiming your displeasure at the wrong targets isnt ever really acceptable. Once it became a distinct possibility that the cup final this weekend could be cancelled and moves to remove the clubs from their league were seriously mooted then abusing liverpool footballers was merely a side show for some to get out in lockdown and chant some crap. You didn’t answer what was done that was vile, and like I said life isn’t fair as this whole super league as shown sometimes in life you after do things dirty .Nothing was sorted before this game nothing.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Apr 21, 2021 18:59:15 GMT 1
john barnes hits the nail on the head here.
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Post by brighousebandbred on Apr 21, 2021 19:18:16 GMT 1
john barnes hits the nail on the head here.
Sadly yes
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Apr 21, 2021 19:23:06 GMT 1
When I consider these overseas tossers errrrr owners I am reminded of game of thrones and the shame shame penitence of the queen and the locals all threw shit at her 17 may is coming soon 😀
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Post by harrychrishner on Apr 21, 2021 20:16:05 GMT 1
john barnes hits the nail on the head here.
What a glorious rant. He's dead right. This is even better than Neville and Carragher! Wise man, wise words.
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Post by harrychrishner on Apr 24, 2021 6:34:49 GMT 1
The aftermath rolls on and we haven't heard the last of the ESL by any means. The Premier League are thinking about how best to avoid such a disaster in the future. UEFA are still considering punishing the clubs involved in some way. Billionaire owners of the "Top 6" have been giving their grovelling apologies to all and sundry this week. And unbelievably three clubs (Juventus, Barcelona and Real Madrid) still seem to believe that it's an on-going project. I wonder how the fans will react when they return to watching live football in grounds up and down the country. Unfair to put the blame and hate on the players, managers, coaching staff etc as the Leeds fans did to Liverpool a few days ago. Hopefully the owners are in for a bad time though.
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 24, 2021 12:25:31 GMT 1
Am I the only one that is pissed off that this European Super League isn’t happening?.
Good riddance to those 6 Clubs and a lost opportunity to reset the English game financially.
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Post by sabailand on Apr 24, 2021 13:08:50 GMT 1
Am I the only one that is pissed off that this European Super League isn’t happening?. Good riddance to those 6 Clubs and a lost opportunity to reset the English game financially. You might not be but i reckon even more would be thinking similar to myself, as much as we often dislike the greed of some clubs i was still pleased when the English clubs pulled out, sure the big clubs will still get the Lions share, but wether we like it or not its always been like this with football in this country, football in this country is popular worldwide and thats because of the premier league, its watched by millions of people (i wont call them fans) and thats cos of the prem.. In years gone by there as always been clubs who won stuff regularly and those who didnt, Liverpool late 70`s 80`s were trophy magnets, then Man utd ruled the roost, Chelsea had a spell and now its Man city who are top dogs (at least domestically). There are lots of leagues around Europe and the wider world where a small group of clubs dominate, its always been the case, as much as i loathe the mega money some clubs attract its something that wouldnt change even with the formation a European super league, all that would happen is that certain clubs would cream off the big money amd a new big six would emerge, then the same consternation would be aired again and again.
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