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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 12, 2021 12:37:34 GMT 1
If anything, I thought England scored too early. It was almost inevitable that as the game went on they'd get deeper and deeper. About 5 minutes before the equaliser I was saying he needed to change it and get an out ball - whether that be Grealish or Foden he needed to give the Italians a problem. As for penalties, it's a lottery. So easy now to question who took them but if the keeper goes the wrong way for Sancho and Saka then they're heroes and Southgate is lauded as a genius. Very easy to be wise after the event, and no surprises who the most vocal Captain Hindsights are on here, but I think England fans should be proud of what they achieved. Southgate has moulded a pragmatic squad who, let's remember, didn't lose a match. They conceded just 2 goals in the tournament and none from open play. It's a young team who will improve. If people take the blinkers off, they'll see a lot of similarities with the French and Spanish evolutions of recent decades. No guarantees that they'll win owt, mind, but in the past England sides have gone to tournaments with inflated expectations and squads who were only equipped for one bite at the cherry. Now, the future looks rosy, and even more young guns are waiting in the wings. Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Rashford, Stones, Pickford and more will all have multiple tournaments.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2021 12:43:42 GMT 1
Southgate getting lots of praise elsewhere yes he,s a nice guy nothing against him as a person just not a good England coach with all the talented players he as available to him he is always going to be cautious got it badly wrong last night, time for a change?(won't happen of course) but nothing will change in the world cup. Other sports England have learned from there mistakes cricket and rugby Union but England football never learns still missing penalties Not a good England coach... are you being serious, hes the best coach we`ve had since 66, a world cup semi and Euro championship final in successive tournaments, could he have done better with players at his disposal and was he too defensive minded, yes perhaps but to say hes not a good England coach is bonkers, I think that twice in a row to fall short due to negative tactical decisions gives some concerns over the manager.? I'm not sure it would have taken a huge change last night to at least produce a chance to win the game before penalties? We were dull and lost, that's tough to take.
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yorik
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Post by yorik on Jul 12, 2021 12:46:19 GMT 1
I am bonkers been supporting Town for 60 years what can you expect maybe was a little harsh saying he,s not a good coach but still think his tactics were wrong
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Post by benhomly on Jul 12, 2021 12:48:55 GMT 1
Hope we retain the idea of a little car bringing the ball on for kick off for the new season I can picture the scene, Ward lining up for his first appearance of the season, the car comes shooting onto the pitch with the ball, collides with Ward and takes him out for the rest of the season 😂
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Post by sabailand on Jul 12, 2021 12:51:41 GMT 1
I am bonkers been supporting Town for 60 years what can you expect maybe was a little harsh saying he,s not a good coach but still think his tactics were wrong I accept the point about he was a bit too defensive mionded in his tactics, its been thus all throught the tournamment though, and tbh its served the team well, maybe being a bit more adventurous would have reaped the rewards, then again maybe not,...we`re still crap at taking pens though.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jul 12, 2021 12:52:10 GMT 1
Chiellini said before the game that England's bench could have qualified for the final. Its a pity our manager didn't show the same faith in them.
Southgate got the plaudits for getting us to the final, but he deserves none for last night's performance. Negative team selection and tactics and he admitted that it was he who chose the penalty takers and it wasn't a case of more senior players bottling it.
We missed a golden opportunity last night and I can't see that coming round again anytime soon with him in charge. We might get to the QF/SF in Qatar but we know he'll bottle it when it matters.
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Post by impact on Jul 12, 2021 12:58:20 GMT 1
Declan Rice completed the most dribbles in the whole team last night. He made the most tackles. He played 74 minutes out of 120. Unless he was truly knackered it made no sense at all to bring him off. He didn't look it to me. I would guess (repeat - guess) that Southgate put Henderson on to utilise his leadership skills. It didn't work, embarrassingly poor compared to Rice. I agreed with bringing Henderson on for that, but Phillips should have gone off. He wasn't on it from the start and Rice is much more solid. Phillips can't really play the sole holding mid role as a defensive player. Italy were in twice within 10 mins of Rice going off.
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Post by conman on Jul 12, 2021 13:14:00 GMT 1
Went upto the pub for the final last night. Thought it would be good to watch the match with a bit of an atmosphere and a few pints. Bad move , a group of six blokes who'd obviously been in there since lunchtime continually singing "You can stick your curly pasta up your arse" (I'll give them their due though , they did change it to cannelloni later on , two women donned in ill fitting England tops sat under the telly all night, never watched any of the game but did join in the curly pasta song. Another woman in an England rugby union shirt who cheered when Italy scored their first penalty. I went out wanting England to win , in the end I wasn't really upset they'd lost. On the way home our lass said I can tell you're not bothered , but roll on Southport for the weekend eh.. Aye , roll on Southport🙂
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2021 13:28:38 GMT 1
Went upto the pub for the final last night. Thought it would be good to watch the match with a bit of an atmosphere and a few pints. Bad move , a group of six blokes who'd obviously been in there since lunchtime continually singing "You can stick your curly pasta up your arse" (I'll give them their due though , they did change it to cannelloni later on , two women donned in ill fitting England tops sat under the telly all night, never watched any of the game but did join in the curly pasta song. Another woman in an England rugby union shirt who cheered when Italy scored their first penalty. I went out wanting England to win , in the end I wasn't really upset they'd lost. On the way home our lass said I can tell you're not bothered , but roll on Southport for the weekend eh.. Aye , roll on Southport🙂 Didnt feel as bad as 90 and 96.. We didnt deserve to win and we didnt. The aftermath will be similarly disappointing. You can play well and be unlucky and need penalties, we spoiled the game and then lost on them. You sit watching us and you spend almost 2 hours trying to push the team forwards, its tiring when it just never happens. Poor game that actually needed a shoot out to get any excitement into it.
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Post by 28901 on Jul 12, 2021 13:39:01 GMT 1
Went upto the pub for the final last night. Thought it would be good to watch the match with a bit of an atmosphere and a few pints. Bad move , a group of six blokes who'd obviously been in there since lunchtime continually singing "You can stick your curly pasta up your arse" (I'll give them their due though , they did change it to cannelloni later on , two women donned in ill fitting England tops sat under the telly all night, never watched any of the game but did join in the curly pasta song. Another woman in an England rugby union shirt who cheered when Italy scored their first penalty. I went out wanting England to win , in the end I wasn't really upset they'd lost. On the way home our lass said I can tell you're not bothered , but roll on Southport for the weekend eh.. Aye , roll on Southport🙂 It was one night when I never had any intention to leave the front room.
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yorik
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by yorik on Jul 12, 2021 13:44:33 GMT 1
I agree didn't feel as bad as 90 and 96 think I've just accepted England will always let you down, where as Town when they get to a final usually win apart from the awful old Trafford defeat due again mainly to a bad decision by Clark not to start with Rhodes
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Post by Detective Boyle on Jul 12, 2021 13:45:40 GMT 1
Just seen some videos on Reddit of England fans that have made me feel sick to my stomach. The irony is that these people who are sending monkey emojis are the closest things to apes you’ll ever see.
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yorik
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by yorik on Jul 12, 2021 13:53:27 GMT 1
Wonder if little Tommy Cruise enjoyed watching the soccer ball😀
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Post by CaptainHart on Jul 12, 2021 13:55:07 GMT 1
If anything, I thought England scored too early. It was almost inevitable that as the game went on they'd get deeper and deeper. About 5 minutes before the equaliser I was saying he needed to change it and get an out ball - whether that be Grealish or Foden he needed to give the Italians a problem. As for penalties, it's a lottery. So easy now to question who took them but if the keeper goes the wrong way for Sancho and Saka then they're heroes and Southgate is lauded as a genius. Very easy to be wise after the event, and no surprises who the most vocal Captain Hindsights are on here, but I think England fans should be proud of what they achieved. Southgate has moulded a pragmatic squad who, let's remember, didn't lose a match. They conceded just 2 goals in the tournament and none from open play. It's a young team who will improve. If people take the blinkers off, they'll see a lot of similarities with the French and Spanish evolutions of recent decades. No guarantees that they'll win owt, mind, but in the past England sides have gone to tournaments with inflated expectations and squads who were only equipped for one bite at the cherry. Now, the future looks rosy, and even more young guns are waiting in the wings. Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Rashford, Stones, Pickford and more will all have multiple tournaments. I don't understand how the people who were complaining about him playing two defensive midfielders before the tournament even started can be accused of hindsight.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2021 13:58:43 GMT 1
Just seen some videos on Reddit of England fans that have made me feel sick to my stomach. The irony is that these people who are sending monkey emojis are the closest things to apes you’ll ever see. Focus on the fact the next England team will be pretty similar. The haters have more to be annoyed, upset, angry or disappointed about than the rest of us. It eats them up whilst we get over it and move on. We win even after a loss.? I'm more disappointed with Gareth and you cant get more white, middle aged than him😉 We keep it just football, it's not about anything else. We got Germany off our back and that's a big plus even though it ended disappointingly..
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Post by blanquiazules on Jul 12, 2021 14:03:10 GMT 1
You have to take the 55 years without a final out of it and look at it as a singular tournament. England over achieved in getting to the final? Absolute rubbish! Did they exceed expectation? Not for me. Look at the squad we have, look at the squad value of every team in the tournament and we'd be top of the pile by a distance. It's like saying Man City over achieved in getting to an F.A. cup final while beating Burnley, Southampton and Spurs en route. Unfortunately we played that game like a plucky underdog against one of the giants of the game, and if you play with a losers mentality you will invariably lose. Before the tournament most people would have said France had the strongest squad. I’d have had Portugal and Belgium ahead of us too. If you rank squads on how many Champions Leagues or international tournaments the players had won there would be at least 5 with more than ours. It was frustrating to watch us play so defensively but Southgate obviously thought our defence was too weak to win the tournament without putting extra defensive minded players in - no coincidence that Rice, Phillips etc outperformed when we were set up to be ultra solid. We might have won if we’d been braver or we might have been knocked out earlier, but beaten finalists exceeded what most neutrals would have expected from England imo. Agree with the underdog sentiment last night though, even with the team we had out there was no need to sit so deep and stop going forward so early, it was asking for trouble.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 14:13:27 GMT 1
If anything, I thought England scored too early. It was almost inevitable that as the game went on they'd get deeper and deeper. About 5 minutes before the equaliser I was saying he needed to change it and get an out ball - whether that be Grealish or Foden he needed to give the Italians a problem. As for penalties, it's a lottery. So easy now to question who took them but if the keeper goes the wrong way for Sancho and Saka then they're heroes and Southgate is lauded as a genius. Very easy to be wise after the event, and no surprises who the most vocal Captain Hindsights are on here, but I think England fans should be proud of what they achieved. Southgate has moulded a pragmatic squad who, let's remember, didn't lose a match. They conceded just 2 goals in the tournament and none from open play. It's a young team who will improve. If people take the blinkers off, they'll see a lot of similarities with the French and Spanish evolutions of recent decades. No guarantees that they'll win owt, mind, but in the past England sides have gone to tournaments with inflated expectations and squads who were only equipped for one bite at the cherry. Now, the future looks rosy, and even more young guns are waiting in the wings. Foden, Sancho, Bellingham, Saka, Rashford, Stones, Pickford and more will all have multiple tournaments. It's for sure a time where the team is more than the individuals, which doesn't ever really feel like it was the case historically (at least in my memory over the last 40-odd years anyway). In the past, we've had to rely on individuals being on fire on the day to change games...the Gasgoignes, Beckhams, Linekar, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Adams etc. If they played well, we did alright, but the rest of the squad was filled with pretty average players who couldn't really win a game by their selves. Now, it seems we have a proper team and a larger talent pool of players ready to drop in and not let anyone down - its not critical that for example Harry Kane has a few misfiring performances, in amongst doing a real good job, as the result is not just about relying on that one star to score goals. The future is bright for the next 6 to 8 years. And for me, one other positive is that this endless stream of kids just stepping up, calmly slotting in, facing up to seasoned experienced world class players and not being defeated by the occasion, is, the pure 'ordinariness' and levelheadedness of it all. It feels like a football club, rather than an elite crop of celebrities. I don't think I heard mention of 'WAGs' a single time through this tournament. I don't know what Mason Mount's girlfriend or boyfriend looks like. Its about the football...and that makes it a lot easier to get behind.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 14:19:33 GMT 1
Not a good England coach... are you being serious, hes the best coach we`ve had since 66, a world cup semi and Euro championship final in successive tournaments, could he have done better with players at his disposal and was he too defensive minded, yes perhaps but to say hes not a good England coach is bonkers, I think that twice in a row to fall short due to negative tactical decisions gives some concerns over the manager.? I'm not sure it would have taken a huge change last night to at least produce a chance to win the game before penalties? We were dull and lost, that's tough to take. Its difficult though - the kind of manager who might have made seemingly more positive changes last night is also the kind of manager who loses a game from a good position earlier in the tournament. We conceded one goal from open play in the entire tournament - won 5 and drawn 2 at the final whistle, its very difficult to suggest there was much wrong with the approach. I know the final 70 or so minutes was pretty strained, but despite that, Italy didn't beat us without penalties, and their equalising goal had an amount of fortune about it.
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goodbet
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Jul 12, 2021 14:19:47 GMT 1
Southgate getting lots of praise elsewhere yes he,s a nice guy nothing against him as a person just not a good England coach with all the talented players he as available to him he is always going to be cautious got it badly wrong last night, time for a change?(won't happen of course) but nothing will change in the world cup. Other sports England have learned from there mistakes cricket and rugby Union but England football never learns still missing penalties Not a good England coach... are you being serious, hes the best coach we`ve had since 66, a world cup semi and Euro championship final in successive tournaments, could he have done better with players at his disposal and was he too defensive minded, yes perhaps but to say hes not a good England coach is bonkers, It appeared that he got all of the players to bond and work together well, but his weakness is his inability to see the game slipping away from his team and know what to do to change things around. His record as a manager is not great and he came up against an experienced manager who saw his team failing and did something about it. What did Southgate do, he dithered and delayed and did very little and appeared in the end to be playing for penalties as our best chance of getting something out of the game. Then you look back to the Croatia game in the world cup and we see that the same thing has happened before. With the squad of players he has to work with we should do well in these competitions not ending up seeing our manager freeze and leave the team to slip away to defeat due to a lack of a positive change from the bench and in tactics employed.
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Post by CaptainHart on Jul 12, 2021 14:21:24 GMT 1
He's failed massively tonight. He should hold his hands up & admit he was far too negative. How many games is that Italy are unbeaten in? There is a reason for that, they are not just lucky. The tactics may not have been perfect but we ran them close. We fight again next time with a more experienced team. Mancini took over after Italy failed to qualify for WC 2018; Southgate still making the same mistakes he was making before Mancini got job.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 14:27:01 GMT 1
Not a good England coach... are you being serious, hes the best coach we`ve had since 66, a world cup semi and Euro championship final in successive tournaments, could he have done better with players at his disposal and was he too defensive minded, yes perhaps but to say hes not a good England coach is bonkers, It appeared that he got all of the players to bond and work together well, but his weakness is his inability to see the game slipping away from his team and know what to do to change things around. What did Southgate do, he dithered and delayed and did very little and appeared in the end to be playing for penalties as our best chance of getting something out of the game. Whenever these thoughts popped into my head over the last few weeks, the camera seemed to uncannily have a knack of show Chris Powell shortly after. And I wondered if his uninspirational dreariness was maybe catching - how on earth has he ended up in such an important role with England & Spurs after such a dismal managerial career?!
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Post by Convictatthemac on Jul 12, 2021 14:33:55 GMT 1
If you dont try to win a game its likely that you wont. Letting the Italians have the ball wasnt the problem, it's how far we let them come with it, far too often and then having no out ball or obvious inclination to counter attack. Allowing 2 older centre backs to go 120 minutes without being run at or turned is a complete mystery to me. You get to a final, you get a very early goal and then you try to just spoil the next 88 minutes, with the attacking talent and the pace we have sitting on the bench? Best chance we have had since 66 and we had the squad and the start but failed ultimately due to trying to get away with doing just enough. I’ll sum up your post, Southgate bottled it 😤
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jul 12, 2021 14:35:02 GMT 1
If he chose Saka fifth after him sitting cold an hour from being taken off on 70 minutes then he should never be allowed near a football team again. What was he thinking? saka came on after 70 mins didn't he? Can't take a pen if you've been subbed My sincere apologies...you are right of course....got chemo fog at the moment...takes me 10 minutes to find a spoon.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Jul 12, 2021 14:41:00 GMT 1
I’m not ashamed to be English, but I’m ashamed that “they” are. The abusers, the rioters, the wankers who claim national pride but haven’t got pride in how they behave, how they present themselves. Unfortunately the standards and morals of the “throw away society” that we now find ourselves in the middle of. It seems success is owed without putting the hard graft in first. I feel proud to be English this morning. Id rather focus my feelings on the 99.9% who came together in spirit and unity across all divides for a common goal ( and we have been a divided country recently for various reasons ) and conducted themselves in a decent, honourable way, than focus on the 0.1% of wankers who can't. Your maths is out....i walked down Wembley way v Germany and it was packed with people not going to the game....looked like 99% wankers to me.
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Post by Metch on Jul 12, 2021 14:51:52 GMT 1
Fine margins but I stand by my earlier post that we have the talent pool to play a more expressive game.
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Post by arry11 on Jul 12, 2021 14:52:28 GMT 1
I feel proud to be English this morning. Id rather focus my feelings on the 99.9% who came together in spirit and unity across all divides for a common goal ( and we have been a divided country recently for various reasons ) and conducted themselves in a decent, honourable way, than focus on the 0.1% of wankers who can't. Your maths is out....i walked down Wembley way v Germany and it was packed with people not going to the game....looked like 99% wankers to me. You would have felt at home then.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 12, 2021 15:02:54 GMT 1
I think that twice in a row to fall short due to negative tactical decisions gives some concerns over the manager.? I'm not sure it would have taken a huge change last night to at least produce a chance to win the game before penalties? We were dull and lost, that's tough to take. Its difficult though - the kind of manager who might have made seemingly more positive changes last night is also the kind of manager who loses a game from a good position earlier in the tournament. We conceded one goal from open play in the entire tournament - won 5 and drawn 2 at the final whistle, its very difficult to suggest there was much wrong with the approach. I know the final 70 or so minutes was pretty strained, but despite that, Italy didn't beat us without penalties, and their equalising goal had an amount of fortune about it. At 1-0 up in a final, I would not advise a gung ho approach. I would however always want to have the counter attacking ability and doing it from our own 18 yard line wasnt going to work. At 1-1 we should have tried to share the possession and made changes that brought the chance of quick breaks and pace up front would have worried the elder statesmen at the heart of their defence. We played the italians for their attacking capabilities rather than their weaknesses. We needed to be 15 to 20 yards up the pitch. Its not going ho, its defending with the purpose of breaking, we ended up defending with the purpose of defending again and again. We conceded from an english style corner which is ironic..
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Post by CaptainHart on Jul 12, 2021 15:03:22 GMT 1
I think that twice in a row to fall short due to negative tactical decisions gives some concerns over the manager.? I'm not sure it would have taken a huge change last night to at least produce a chance to win the game before penalties? We were dull and lost, that's tough to take. Its difficult though - the kind of manager who might have made seemingly more positive changes last night is also the kind of manager who loses a game from a good position earlier in the tournament. We conceded one goal from open play in the entire tournament - won 5 and drawn 2 at the final whistle, its very difficult to suggest there was much wrong with the approach. I know the final 70 or so minutes was pretty strained, but despite that, Italy didn't beat us without penalties, and their equalising goal had an amount of fortune about it. As predicted it turned out to be a re-run of the Croatia semi-final. He's had three years to solve that problem, turns out he's learned nothing. Bringing Henderson on for Rice? Bringing Grealish on but playing him on the left and moving Saka inside?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2021 15:13:45 GMT 1
No it isnt, we are a first world, high culture country....until the 1950's the greatest nation of peoples the world had ever known...now we are a shell....a sad pastiche of what we recently were. Breaks my heart what happened to us. I think that you got the high point completely wrong. We may have led the world up to the start of the first world war it became obvious that the lead had passed or was passing on to the US after it. The second world war was when the yanks really stuck the boot in when we had to pay through the nose for the help and assistance that we needed. They also too the opportunity to grab some of our industries and our overseas investments and made us give them access to sell in to the commonwealth countries which we had managed to keep them out of until then. Germany and Japan got investment from the US but we had to keep paying war debts, I think until the 1970's. The US had us under the cosh and kept us there and now they have more important business to do than to bother helping us out trying to get a trade deal together. We got ourselves in to this position so we can't blame them for not going out of their way to help us out. So much for the special relationship, I guess we probably were not too helpful to them as they grew and developed as a nation and boy have they ensured that they made us pay ever since. Convenient bits of history to quote. Should we not have stood up for Poland & the rest of Europe (humanity) in the face of threats from genocidal maniacs and their supporting dictatorships?
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Post by CaptainHart on Jul 12, 2021 15:37:00 GMT 1
I think that you got the high point completely wrong. We may have led the world up to the start of the first world war it became obvious that the lead had passed or was passing on to the US after it. The second world war was when the yanks really stuck the boot in when we had to pay through the nose for the help and assistance that we needed. They also too the opportunity to grab some of our industries and our overseas investments and made us give them access to sell in to the commonwealth countries which we had managed to keep them out of until then. Germany and Japan got investment from the US but we had to keep paying war debts, I think until the 1970's. The US had us under the cosh and kept us there and now they have more important business to do than to bother helping us out trying to get a trade deal together. We got ourselves in to this position so we can't blame them for not going out of their way to help us out. So much for the special relationship, I guess we probably were not too helpful to them as they grew and developed as a nation and boy have they ensured that they made us pay ever since. Convenient bits of history to quote. Should we not have stood up for Poland & the rest of Europe (humanity) in the face of threats from genocidal maniacs and their supporting dictatorships? That's not the point being made at all.
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