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Post by hueypnewton on May 20, 2021 9:14:52 GMT 1
There are some boring fuckers on this site banging the same tedious drum over and over. Yes he’s a bullshitter, yes I wouldn’t want to get to know him particularly. And he looked like an absolute whopper in that t shirt. But he’s the only owner the club has and the club needs our support now more than ever after the last few years and the pressures of COVID. He has the best interests of the club at heart and he’s actually making a pretty decent fist of things all told. Why not look forward with some positivity instead of bitching and moaning. Some pedants would rather be right than show a bit of solidarity for the club they support. And if that’s you it makes you a bit of a wanker. Last time I showed some solidarity with the club, they got rid of the manager days after mission accomplished and relegation was avoided. I don't like Phil, nor do I trust him. He talks too much shit. This would all count for nothing if the team was winning, or even entertaining. They are neither. But the interview was decent, and gives some hope for next season. It all depends whether you have faith in our recruitment team AND that Carlos' 2021 to be just a blip in form. I have doubts on both those fronts - the lack of any fight or a coherent team at the tail end of the season being a worry. I also remember an article from the Examiner when Carlos was appointed, stating that this decision would make or break Phil's tenure. Deja vu then for 2021/22. We seem to now only be in the free transfer market - which is a step down from where we were in 2017 and pretty poor for a club taking in hundreds of millions just a couple of years ago. But it is what it is. I have no problem with the wage bill being at 2017 levels. One thing on the aim to be debt free in 12 months - are there actually any Championship clubs that are debt free? Is it even possible to run a competitive Championship club without the owner bankrolling them to some extent? I have my doubts. One thing that stood out was when asked if he was in it long-term. He stuttered and was unable to give a straight answer. Hope I'm wrong in thinking he's clearing the debt ready for a sale. Eventually he did gather his thoughts to give an 'all options' on the table but the dithering initial response was odd. As for that shirt, big Phil clearly looking at that amber travel list and dusting down his clubbing wardrobe - next stop, Ibiza!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 9:18:57 GMT 1
Believe he said our budget would be lower mid table. I’d class that as somewhere between 14th and 18th. Wasn’t our wage bill in the promotion season much higher than it had been before (£17 mil?) with Dean backing Wagner with the likes of Schindler and Lowe? Anyway his interview felt more genuine and positive than they have been in the past. He acknowledges a need to improve the squad and buy players to suit Carlos’ system. Of course it will start to unravel a bit if we sign Jordan Rhodes as our lead striker! 😂 The wage bill in 16/17 was inflated by the promotion bonus provision, which I seem to recall quoted as around £4m ?
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4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
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Post by 4 pts on May 20, 2021 9:29:37 GMT 1
I may have misheard so hoping somebody can clarify. PH said we've five almost done, RB, LB, GK, CB and Striker. He then said we'd be looking to bring in eight players, which after the first five leaves three more. Then he said we were looking at another CB, a holding midfielder, a ball playing midfielder, attacking midfielder, another for the wing and the forward positions, which obviously doesn't add up. Was it 8 minimum and more based in the two leaving? Definitely the 5 plus some loans. I think what he meant was that any other additions like the Lazaro types will be dependant on Mbenza and Bacuna leaving
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Post by incognito on May 20, 2021 9:38:19 GMT 1
I think it's worth bearing in mind that even operating with a "bottom-six" Championship wage bill has historically seen the club lose around £5 million a year on average. It seems unlikely that Phil will be in a position to routinely subsidise such losses to the extent that his predecessor did. As disappointing as it may seem, reining the budget back down to a level that is vaguely proportional to our post-parachute income is the responsible course of action from a sustainability point of view.
It will be interesting to see how they are going to address our historical Championship shortfall from 2022/23 onwards. I'd imagine it will involve a greater emphasis on player trading than was previously the case (the staggered Karlan Grant fee will provide an initial head start). Somehow they will also have to find a way to significantly improve on our pre-2017 revenue. Towards the end of the interview he says that they will "look at increasing the revenue that is coming into the Football Club, which is what we are doing with the Stadium piece" - can anyone shed any light on what that atually means?
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Post by Floyds on May 20, 2021 9:43:00 GMT 1
Feel sorry for PH He probably thought he was buying a club with a bunch of loyal and supportive fans, and it turns out the majority have turned into a load of priveledged expectant mongs. Good luck to the guy, but when he's getting pulled over his tee shirt by fat, bald blokes with a beard, he's on a hiding to nowt. Spot on this, I don't know who these arseholes are, but I'd imagine they're feeling rather wounded by this. Shame on them. It's just a good job this forum is full of rational people who react to light hearted piss-takes when there's nowt else to talk about proportionately. Praise be. A few comments about his crap shirt - he probably gets called worse by his wife at home, let alone his mates! I'm sure he'd be good value on a night out but you'd take the piss out of him if he were one of your mates, based on the little I've seen of him.
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Post by rooo on May 20, 2021 9:47:05 GMT 1
I think it's worth bearing in mind that even operating with a "bottom-six" Championship wage bill has historically seen the club lose around £5 million a year on average. It seems unlikely that Phil will be in a position to routinely subsidise such losses to the extent that his predecessor did. As disappointing as it may seem, reining the budget back down to a level that is vaguely proportional to our post-parachute income is the responsible course of action from a sustainability point of view. It will be interesting to see how they are going to address our historical Championship shortfall from 2022/23 onwards. I'd imagine it will involve a greater emphasis on player trading than was previously the case (the staggered Karlan Grant fee will provide an initial head start). Somehow they will also have to find a way to significantly improve on our pre-2017 revenue. Towards the end of the interview he says that they will " look at increasing the revenue that is coming into the Football Club, which is what we are doing with the Stadium piece" - can anyone shed any light on what that atually means? It means that ALL Stadium events will bring money into HTAFC rather than in to KSDL. So catering, car parking, concerts,exhibitions and dinners/weddings etc. Plus other, yet to be announced events. Previously, if you bought a pie and a pint on matchday, Town wouldn't receive a penny for it.
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Post by hueypnewton on May 20, 2021 9:58:05 GMT 1
I think it's worth bearing in mind that even operating with a "bottom-six" Championship wage bill has historically seen the club lose around £5 million a year on average. It seems unlikely that Phil will be in a position to routinely subsidise such losses to the extent that his predecessor did. As disappointing as it may seem, reining the budget back down to a level that is vaguely proportional to our post-parachute income is the responsible course of action from a sustainability point of view. It will be interesting to see how they are going to address our historical Championship shortfall from 2022/23 onwards. I'd imagine it will involve a greater emphasis on player trading than was previously the case (the staggered Karlan Grant fee will provide an initial head start). Somehow they will also have to find a way to significantly improve on our pre-2017 revenue. Towards the end of the interview he says that they will " look at increasing the revenue that is coming into the Football Club, which is what we are doing with the Stadium piece" - can anyone shed any light on what that atually means? It means that ALL Stadium events will bring money into HTAFC rather than in to KSDL. So catering, car parking, concerts,exhibitions and dinners/weddings etc. Plus other, yet to be announced events. Previously, if you bought a pie and a pint on matchday, Town wouldn't receive a penny for it. That I did not know. But does this now mean the £10 million in outstanding maintenance bills is also a Town responsibility?
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Post by townrwe on May 20, 2021 10:00:28 GMT 1
Keep giving the same people the same responsibility for recruitment and the same misses will keep happening.
We use a data driven process... the answers you get out are only as good as the questions you put in.
Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers.
You can't run "moneyball" recruitment with a couple of sub 100 IQ ex pros. You may as well not bother and use old style methods.
Data driven recruitment doesn't rely on opinions, you need to ask the right questions to get the best bang for your bucks. The fact PH states positions we need to improve suggests no-one at the club understands the theory or talk of key players, but then says data will drive recruitment in terms of injury and training load.
It's a blended model which is basically the worst of two methods. Not enough scouting and no true commitment to data.
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Post by andyeastleake on May 20, 2021 10:01:16 GMT 1
Feck me! There’s some reet self-entitled consumers whining away here. All those who complained that PH didn’t communicate are now crucifying him for… his fecking shirt ! Give him a break, he’s actually communicating his detailed plans for the summer. FFS. Whinge whinge whinge. Never happy. Thank God there’s still a few real supporters here to help counteract the vapid consumers. UTT It's getting a bit "The Emperers New Clothes" now. ...if you don't like Phil's shirt you're not a proper Town fan but a Vapid consumer.
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cojones
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by cojones on May 20, 2021 10:12:13 GMT 1
Just because I thought this thread might need some balance, I’d encourage all town fans to listen to the interview, even if you’re not a fan of PH. I thought he came across well, defended and attempted to justify decisions the club has made over the last couple of years, provided unwavering support for CC, gave an insight into recruitment and the type of recruitment he hopes we can do, and suggested that he’s aiming to have the club debt-free within 12 months, which would suggest that he’s going to be paying off DH earlier than expected. I can’t fault what he said tonight, and I feel somewhat reassured that the club is heading (slowly, admittedly) in a direction which I support. Just my take, but wanted to provide a bit of balance because there are a lot of fans who think like I do as well. Fingers crossed they can achieve all that he set out today. I think we’ll be just fine! How dare you come on here and talk total sense? LOL. I am totally with you. It wouldn't matter if the World's Richest Sheikh took over HTAFC, this board would still be full of the extreme negativity we constantly see. HTAFC is a business and has to be run as one. My home is similar in many ways. Both have to be operated within financial restraints. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. In olden days, I took out loans which I though i needed, but in truth, they held me back and it took me ages to repay them, I still couldn't have what I thought I wanted. In hindsight, I was happy as I was and didn't really need them. There are similarities here with town, but one big difference. I can control my own destiny, but have no right to have a say in how the football club business is run. Yes, absolutely, I am a fan, but I'm nothing more than a customer really. I just wish many on here would realise that is the situation for us all and therefore save themselves from getting wound up with all of this. From a business point of view, it appears that the owner is doing what he should be to ensure sensible operation. If a customer ultimately isn't happy, they have the right not to support the business going forward. Not rocket science, but this argument will go on at this club for many years.
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on May 20, 2021 10:17:10 GMT 1
On that shirt - this might show my age, but I quite liked it. Obviously three sizes too small for him but otherwise ok ...
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Post by rooo on May 20, 2021 10:18:26 GMT 1
It means that ALL Stadium events will bring money into HTAFC rather than in to KSDL. So catering, car parking, concerts,exhibitions and dinners/weddings etc. Plus other, yet to be announced events. Previously, if you bought a pie and a pint on matchday, Town wouldn't receive a penny for it. That I did not know. But does this now mean the £10 million in outstanding maintenance bills is also a Town responsibility? I think the council are covering those costs. Details are here: www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/kirklees-council-agrees-new-ownership-20191178
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on May 20, 2021 10:21:40 GMT 1
On that shirt - this might show my sge, but I quite liked it. Obviously three sizes too small for him but otherwise ok ... I think we should all show up to the first home game in the same shirt as Phils as a show of solidarity and togetherness.
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ambryboy
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by ambryboy on May 20, 2021 10:32:03 GMT 1
On that shirt - this might show my sge, but I quite liked it. Obviously three sizes too small for him but otherwise ok ... I think we should all show up to the first home game in the same shirt as Phils as a show of solidarity and togetherness. After you Dan, however it would be like the time that we told one of the swotty lads in our class at school that we were all wearing jeans for the speech day evening at the Town Hall. He did, we didn't and he looked a right tool.
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Post by townrwe on May 20, 2021 10:33:58 GMT 1
On that shirt - this might show my sge, but I quite liked it. Obviously three sizes too small for him but otherwise ok ... I think we should all show up to the first home game in the same shirt as Phils as a show of solidarity and togetherness. The saving grace is that OXFAM would only need to find around 6000 more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 10:34:58 GMT 1
Just because I thought this thread might need some balance, I’d encourage all town fans to listen to the interview, even if you’re not a fan of PH. I thought he came across well, defended and attempted to justify decisions the club has made over the last couple of years, provided unwavering support for CC, gave an insight into recruitment and the type of recruitment he hopes we can do, and suggested that he’s aiming to have the club debt-free within 12 months, which would suggest that he’s going to be paying off DH earlier than expected. I can’t fault what he said tonight, and I feel somewhat reassured that the club is heading (slowly, admittedly) in a direction which I support. Just my take, but wanted to provide a bit of balance because there are a lot of fans who think like I do as well. Fingers crossed they can achieve all that he set out today. I think we’ll be just fine! How dare you come on here and talk total sense? LOL. I am totally with you. It wouldn't matter if the World's Richest Sheikh took over HTAFC, this board would still be full of the extreme negativity we constantly see. HTAFC is a business and has to be run as one. My home is similar in many ways. Both have to be operated within financial restraints. If I can't afford something, I don't buy it. In olden days, I took out loans which I though i needed, but in truth, they held me back and it took me ages to repay them, I still couldn't have what I thought I wanted. In hindsight, I was happy as I was and didn't really need them. There are similarities here with town, but one big difference. I can control my own destiny, but have no right to have a say in how the football club business is run. Yes, absolutely, I am a fan, but I'm nothing more than a customer really. I just wish many on here would realise that is the situation for us all and therefore save themselves from getting wound up with all of this. From a business point of view, it appears that the owner is doing what he should be to ensure sensible operation. If a customer ultimately isn't happy, they have the right not to support the business going forward. Not rocket science, but this argument will go on at this club for many years. Lots of sense and balance being offered here. All those unfairly questioning PH's actions - probably the same people who on the one hand blame the club for overspending in the PL whilst decrying (note the selfish 'crying') the alleged 'penny pinching' in the Championship - should spend some time availing themselves of modern football financial realities by following Keiran Mcguires ThePriceofFootball Twitter account - a recent snippet from which reads 'The 32 clubs who have published some results to date in the top two divisions have made total day to day losses of £1,653,000,000. Clubs are averaging losses of £660,000 a week in the Championship & £1,250,000 a week in the Premier League.' As someone who has supported this club for over 50 years and indeed renewed my season ticket - the level of opprobrium directed at the club in general is embarrassing - support your club in difficult times or move on - and oh don't come on here moaning that you cant get away tickets during next season - UTT!!
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Post by Galpharmer on May 20, 2021 10:36:55 GMT 1
Must be interview season. David Webb on today’s Price of Football pod.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 10:39:52 GMT 1
Keep giving the same people the same responsibility for recruitment and the same misses will keep happening. We use a data driven process... the answers you get out are only as good as the questions you put in. Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers. You can't run "moneyball" recruitment with a couple of sub 100 IQ ex pros. You may as well not bother and use old style methods. Data driven recruitment doesn't rely on opinions, you need to ask the right questions to get the best bang for your bucks. The fact PH states positions we need to improve suggests no-one at the club understands the theory or talk of key players, but then says data will drive recruitment in terms of injury and training load. It's a blended model which is basically the worst of two methods. Not enough scouting and no true commitment to data. Gee welcome to 2021 - most clubs now use data driven methods - as increasingly do most industries
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Post by specialun on May 20, 2021 10:43:58 GMT 1
In summary
First 5 signings - not before end June GK RB LB CB CF
Then will look at CB (possibly) Holding CM Wing (probably) Attack mid Attack mid (he used the word plural) Forward (again he used plural but let’s say 1)
That would be 11 in
He then says he hopes 8 in (& 2 out) which would mean he could sign 3 of the 6 in the second list not them all?
So 8 in not 11?
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Post by Porrohman on May 20, 2021 10:44:10 GMT 1
Keep giving the same people the same responsibility for recruitment and the same misses will keep happening. We use a data driven process... the answers you get out are only as good as the questions you put in. Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers. You can't run "moneyball" recruitment with a couple of sub 100 IQ ex pros. You may as well not bother and use old style methods. Data driven recruitment doesn't rely on opinions, you need to ask the right questions to get the best bang for your bucks. The fact PH states positions we need to improve suggests no-one at the club understands the theory or talk of key players, but then says data will drive recruitment in terms of injury and training load. It's a blended model which is basically the worst of two methods. Not enough scouting and no true commitment to data. Yep, what we need is someone who reckons their IQ is over 140 and has a record for spouting absolute horseshit about transfers. That would improve things 🤨
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Post by waggers on May 20, 2021 10:49:44 GMT 1
Feck me! There’s some reet self-entitled consumers whining away here. All those who complained that PH didn’t communicate are now crucifying him for… his fecking shirt ! Give him a break, he’s actually communicating his detailed plans for the summer. FFS. Whinge whinge whinge. Never happy. Thank God there’s still a few real supporters here to help counteract the vapid consumers. UTT You're bang on. I could rattle off a load of justified criticism of Phil but like you say when he does come out and talk people focus on his fecking shirt. The bloke can't win.
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Post by tyketaffy on May 20, 2021 10:55:33 GMT 1
I am probably in a minority of one here but I think Phil and Carlos will turn it round given enough time. Phil is running a business, all be it an entertainment business, and since Xmas there has been little entertainment on view from the team I admit. But given the circumstances with Covid and the likelihood that at least some teams are going to be going into administration and probably fold it makes sense to see where we are in 12 months time assuming we are over the worst of Covid restrictions by that time.
To me it makes sense to get the outgoings down as much as possible while still trying to remain competitive and given the size of the crowds even at capacity we are hardly likely yo be able to compete with the big players in terms of investment income coming into the club except via the chairman’s pocket. For years Dean subsidized the club and he had the money to do it, Phil does not have that kind of cash and we have to be realistic as to what we expect from the club.
Its no use whinging on about premier league money etc and mistakes made, that’s gone and no amount of wishful thinking of “what if” is going to change where we are now. We are a small town club still playing in a major league and given that apart from short periods in my time supporting this club (1968) we have often been a struggling lower league team. Dean money and Wagner’s magic gave us a brief period in the sun which we should be grateful for.
Huge mistakes were made in that second season in the Prem and Dean being critically ill at a crucial time did not help. Phil taking over and Covid hitting have not helped the situation at the club either but surely now is the time to try and consolidate making sure we stay in this league but not by over spending and ending up in huge debt and the club folding. Phil whether you like him or not is obviously a fan of the club and wants the best for the club at heart.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 20, 2021 11:02:20 GMT 1
I think it's worth bearing in mind that even operating with a "bottom-six" Championship wage bill has historically seen the club lose around £5 million a year on average. It seems unlikely that Phil will be in a position to routinely subsidise such losses to the extent that his predecessor did. As disappointing as it may seem, reining the budget back down to a level that is vaguely proportional to our post-parachute income is the responsible course of action from a sustainability point of view. It will be interesting to see how they are going to address our historical Championship shortfall from 2022/23 onwards. I'd imagine it will involve a greater emphasis on player trading than was previously the case (the staggered Karlan Grant fee will provide an initial head start). Somehow they will also have to find a way to significantly improve on our pre-2017 revenue. Towards the end of the interview he says that they will "look at increasing the revenue that is coming into the Football Club, which is what we are doing with the Stadium piece" - can anyone shed any light on what that atually means? Brentford are the model they want to follow. Imagine, even with our half price season cards, their non-transfer dealings income will be pretty similar to ours. Where they do well ( very well ) is their ability to trade in players. Buy for relatively small amounts and sell on for huge amounts a year or two later. Then reinvest and so the same. You keep losing your best players, but the overall effect is you are up at the top end competing to go up. Grant and possibly Toffolo and Koroma are three signings we've made that could fall into that bracket but we'll need more and manage to do it consistently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 11:03:35 GMT 1
Keep giving the same people the same responsibility for recruitment and the same misses will keep happening. We use a data driven process... the answers you get out are only as good as the questions you put in. Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers. You can't run "moneyball" recruitment with a couple of sub 100 IQ ex pros. You may as well not bother and use old style methods. Data driven recruitment doesn't rely on opinions, you need to ask the right questions to get the best bang for your bucks. The fact PH states positions we need to improve suggests no-one at the club understands the theory or talk of key players, but then says data will drive recruitment in terms of injury and training load. It's a blended model which is basically the worst of two methods. Not enough scouting and no true commitment to data. Townrwe scouts are still out going to games as well as using data that is fact
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Post by incognito on May 20, 2021 11:12:13 GMT 1
Thanks rooo . I'm surprised this passed me by the first time, but I suppose, by March, I'd reached the stage of trying to avoid HTAFC-related content! I suppose we will end up paying for the bulk of it indirectly as the main contributor to the loan repayments, but if the new arrangement can significantly reduce the net amount of cash flowing out of the club each year (currently about £1 million rent?) it will be a big positive.
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4 pts
Steve Kindon Terrier
Posts: 1,637
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Post by 4 pts on May 20, 2021 11:28:02 GMT 1
I am probably in a minority of one here but I think Phil and Carlos will turn it round given enough time. Phil is running a business, all be it an entertainment business, and since Xmas there has been little entertainment on view from the team I admit. But given the circumstances with Covid and the likelihood that at least some teams are going to be going into administration and probably fold it makes sense to see where we are in 12 months time assuming we are over the worst of Covid restrictions by that time. To me it makes sense to get the outgoings down as much as possible while still trying to remain competitive and given the size of the crowds even at capacity we are hardly likely yo be able to compete with the big players in terms of investment income coming into the club except via the chairman’s pocket. For years Dean subsidized the club and he had the money to do it, Phil does not have that kind of cash and we have to be realistic as to what we expect from the club.Its no use whinging on about premier league money etc and mistakes made, that’s gone and no amount of wishful thinking of “what if” is going to change where we are now. We are a small town club still playing in a major league and given that apart from short periods in my time supporting this club (1968) we have often been a struggling lower league team. Dean money and Wagner’s magic gave us a brief period in the sun which we should be grateful for. Huge mistakes were made in that second season in the Prem and Dean being critically ill at a crucial time did not help. Phil taking over and Covid hitting have not helped the situation at the club either but surely now is the time to try and consolidate making sure we stay in this league but not by over spending and ending up in huge debt and the club folding. Phil whether you like him or not is obviously a fan of the club and wants the best for the club at heart. If the club is debt free in the next 12 months or so then fair play to him. As for subsidising the club going forwards, I agree, I don't believe PH has the wealth to do that. He will be actively looking for a buyer, I don't see him sticking around for another 3 yrs if the right offer comes along
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 20, 2021 11:34:30 GMT 1
On that shirt - this might show my sge, but I quite liked it. Obviously three sizes too small for him but otherwise ok ... I think we should all show up to the first home game in the same shirt as Phils as a show of solidarity and togetherness. They could sell them in the club shop or better still Phil could arrange for them to be on our seats (a la Old Trafford) for the first game. Then folk could chuck them in the river if we lose.
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Post by Mecha Corte on May 20, 2021 11:35:23 GMT 1
Keep giving the same people the same responsibility for recruitment and the same misses will keep happening. We use a data driven process... the answers you get out are only as good as the questions you put in. Ask the wrong questions and you get the wrong answers. You can't run "moneyball" recruitment with a couple of sub 100 IQ ex pros. You may as well not bother and use old style methods. Data driven recruitment doesn't rely on opinions, you need to ask the right questions to get the best bang for your bucks. The fact PH states positions we need to improve suggests no-one at the club understands the theory or talk of key players, but then says data will drive recruitment in terms of injury and training load. It's a blended model which is basically the worst of two methods. Not enough scouting and no true commitment to data. Yep, what we need is someone who reckons their IQ is over 140 and has a record for spouting absolute horseshit about transfers. That would improve things 🤨 I can only think of one other regular poster who is obsessed with informing the rest of us the number of his IQ and that’s Otium. Apparently if yours is 140 that puts you in the genius bracket, Einstein was 160 and the highest ever recorded was an American, William Siddis who scored between 250/300. Maybe we are supposed to be impressed by the claims and as a consequence taking everything else stated as fact ?
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Post by Armchair Pundit on May 20, 2021 11:36:35 GMT 1
From what I got from the interview....
PH “Yes I know we are shit, I can see we are shit. I have gone to CC to ask why we are shit. And he was able to explain why we shit. So because he can explain why we are shit. He must be a good coach. So I’m backing him by not sacking him, until 6 games into the season.”
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2021 11:36:38 GMT 1
What if....PH's t-shirt is an early prototype of the design of next year's away shirt?
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