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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 9, 2022 0:36:05 GMT 1
Truly embarrassing, I cringed all the way through reading the half that I managed. Sorry to hear that, Dean.
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stable
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by stable on Jul 9, 2022 0:47:05 GMT 1
Truly embarrassing, I cringed all the way through reading the half that I managed. Sorry to hear that, Dean. Oh come on, regardless of what spin there is from any side it's 100% obvious that he's been tapped up. There's a slim chance that one person might walk away from a wage through integrity, but not two at once. They've been tapped up on better deals - yes maybe they've asked us to match them and possibly change transfer budget but if that is out of our structure.........
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 9, 2022 0:49:06 GMT 1
Sorry to hear that, Dean. Oh come on, regardless of what spin there is from any side it's 100% obvious that he's been tapped up. There's a slim chance that one person might walk away from a wage through integrity, but not two at once. They've been tapped up on better deals - yes maybe they've asked us to match them and possibly change transfer budget but if that is out of our structure......... I'm intrigued as to how you've come to the conclusion that it's 100% obvious that he's been tapped up. (Hint: You're 100% wrong)
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stable
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by stable on Jul 9, 2022 1:01:21 GMT 1
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together - why would you make yourself unemployed? And your assistant suddenly do the same? They're not exactly millionaires . I'll be truly, truly amazed have they gone without the nod from elsewhere. And why would most of the players be pissed off he's not allegedly allowed better ones in? Surely it would mean less chance of them playing themselves (Apart from the few best ones, half we thought were going anyway). Sorry but mathematically, none of it adds up in my mind
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 9, 2022 1:06:34 GMT 1
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together - why would you make yourself unemployed? And your assistant suddenly do the same? They're not exactly millionaires . I'll be truly, truly amazed have they gone without the nod from elsewhere. And why would most of the players be pissed off he's not allegedly allowed better ones in? Surely it would mean less chance of them playing themselves (Apart from the few best ones, half we thought were going anyway). Sorry but mathematically, none of it adds up in my mind He might well be announced somewhere else shortly?
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Post by alexdire on Jul 9, 2022 6:11:35 GMT 1
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together - why would you make yourself unemployed? And your assistant suddenly do the same? They're not exactly millionaires . I'll be truly, truly amazed have they gone without the nod from elsewhere. And why would most of the players be pissed off he's not allegedly allowed better ones in? Surely it would mean less chance of them playing themselves (Apart from the few best ones, half we thought were going anyway). Sorry but mathematically, none of it adds up in my mind He might well be announced somewhere else shortly? Doesn't mean he's been tapped up though. Could be just now he's available a club moves for him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 7:53:49 GMT 1
Only one way to make feelings known and that's before the home game against Burnley First game of the season, on TV so plenty of opportunities to tell the world what we think about this shocking state of the club. Back the players and poor Danny Schofield but Dean Hoyle deserves all the contempt we can mustre before and after the game That would just give licence to all the idiots, and we have our share of those. Email the club and ask for a better explanation but don’t mess things up for the staff and players.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2022 8:28:52 GMT 1
If CL14 or anyone else feel they want to make statements about anything it doesn't bother me.However I do think the hierarchy,leaders etc don't care what the fans think and never have.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 9, 2022 8:37:52 GMT 1
Maybe I'm wrong. I'm just putting 2 and 2 together - why would you make yourself unemployed? And your assistant suddenly do the same? They're not exactly millionaires . I'll be truly, truly amazed have they gone without the nod from elsewhere. And why would most of the players be pissed off he's not allegedly allowed better ones in? Surely it would mean less chance of them playing themselves (Apart from the few best ones, half we thought were going anyway). Sorry but mathematically, none of it adds up in my mind Yeah I was a bit surprised at this claim that the players are angry about it.. at least in the direction its been portrayed. If the story was that the players were angry with Carlos then that would make more sense... for disrupting the plans for the season at such a late stage and for having such little faith in them as players, despite their achievements last season, that he would rather walk than continue to work with them. Carlos is basically saying.. I have no faith in all these players without O'Brien and Tofollo. The rest arent good enough to cope without them. And I have no faith in our recruitment team to replace those two players , despite them massively improving my squad all over the place whilst spending the square root of nothing last summer. the club showed faith in Carlos when his team was struggling and there were a lot of calls to sack him ( not least on here ) But now he isn't prepared to show any faith in the club..the squad of players he'll have or the recruitment team that provided him with players that just allowed us to finish 3rd.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 9, 2022 8:49:34 GMT 1
"Yeah I was a bit surprised at this claim that the players are angry about it"
Truth is slapps that you can take most of this insider guff with a pinch of salt .. I do think that some players might be reevaluating their career paths though given that Carlos going APPEARS to signal that we (and the players) need to revise our expectations for the upcoming season
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 9, 2022 9:21:27 GMT 1
Dunno Ted. Most expectations on here a year ago were that we'd go down or at least struggle to avoid it. All these players were still happy to come here , or stay here, and pick up their wages.
I dont think Carlos's communication skills were good enough that his personality will be a defining factor for these players. Sometimes a manager moves on and you can see how without HIM, it just wont be the same, because he is such a big presence.. such a big character.
Think we had that with Wagner, but Ive never got that feeling with Carlos at all. Might be due to the language barrier or just how he is, but Carlos lacked any kind of charisma at all IMO.
So if Schofield is a continuation of the football style and ethos , and by all accounts thats just what he'll be, then I doubt there's been a huge change here really. Id be surprised if the players dont generally have a better relationship with Schofield than they did with Carlos.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 9, 2022 9:26:30 GMT 1
I don't think it's about Carlos personality etc necessarily . And you're right these players were happy to come to us when we were in the doldrums .BUT they've just finished third so it's natural some of them will be looking to better themselves in terms of ambition and or financially . I guess the one I'm thinking of primarily is Thomas . Just had a great season , finished third , clubs will be circling , he's going to qatar for Xmas. I just wonder whether he is going to want to grub about in the bottom third . He's an ambitious lad.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Jul 9, 2022 9:33:53 GMT 1
Dunno Ted. Most expectations on here a year ago were that we'd go down or at least struggle to avoid it. All these players were still happy to come here , or stay here, and pick up their wages. I dont think Carlos's communication skills were good enough that his personality will be a defining factor for these players. Sometimes a manager moves on and you can see how without HIM, it just wont be the same, because he is such a big presence.. such a big character. Think we had that with Wagner, but Ive never got that feeling with Carlos at all. Might be due to the language barrier or just how he is, but Carlos lacked any kind of charisma at all IMO. So if Schofield is a continuation of the football style and ethos , and by all accounts thats just what he'll be, then I doubt there's been a huge change here really. Id be surprised if the players dont generally have a better relationship with Schofield than they did with Carlos. The man brought us winning football, almost inconceivable (for the Championship) unbeaten runs, a 3rd place finish and a fairly unfortunate play off final defeat. I still didn’t warm to him, thought the belated connection with the support looked pretty fake and his resignation a good sign that he is a bit precious (or, to be crude, up his own arse). Thinks he is too good for us; fair enough, see you later.
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Post by Galpharmer on Jul 9, 2022 9:43:24 GMT 1
If CL14 or anyone else feel they want to make statements about anything it doesn't bother me.However I do think the hierarchy,leaders etc don't care what the fans think and never have. The Club haven’t given one small fuck about the fans since the first greedy league season. From Canalside effectively closing down, the broken promises about the improved facilities, selling out to the highest bidder sponsorship wise, changing the badge, moving the goalposts with ticket priority, promoting the media guy to director, hiring an unknown manager and claiming he was always the plan, Hoyle making sure he gets his coin back, spaffing every last remaining penny on players and agents leaving a shite legacy. Not backing Corberan and promoting the cheapest option is hardly a fucking surprise I’m afraid.
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jul 9, 2022 9:43:46 GMT 1
The psychological impact of losing something you have is far worse than not having something you don’t have.
The players will now think of themselves as a top 6 squad. Ambitious players like Thomas are on their way up and won’t want to drop back down, even if that’s to the lower end of the league.
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Post by ritchie on Jul 9, 2022 9:49:13 GMT 1
Dunno Ted. Most expectations on here a year ago were that we'd go down or at least struggle to avoid it. All these players were still happy to come here , or stay here, and pick up their wages. I dont think Carlos's communication skills were good enough that his personality will be a defining factor for these players. Sometimes a manager moves on and you can see how without HIM, it just wont be the same, because he is such a big presence.. such a big character. Think we had that with Wagner, but Ive never got that feeling with Carlos at all. Might be due to the language barrier or just how he is, but Carlos lacked any kind of charisma at all IMO. So if Schofield is a continuation of the football style and ethos , and by all accounts thats just what he'll be, then I doubt there's been a huge change here really. Id be surprised if the players dont generally have a better relationship with Schofield than they did with Carlos. Think that's a bizarre take based on very little. Just because he's not english, or with the large public personality of wagner, doesnt mean the players dont have a strong bond with him. To suggest they had a stronger bond with DS is total guesswork. Personally I thought it looked like they were a very close group, who in training videos always looked highly engaged with carlos. He doesnt need to be smiling and cracking jokes for there to be a strong bond. Id imagine the players had huge respect for a man who is obviously a very good coach, that's improved them as players. They are professionals, i'm pretty sure they will judge him mainly on his ability to do his job and take them and the club as far as possible. That's before we even get to personality.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Maynardblue on Jul 9, 2022 9:56:46 GMT 1
A number of our players owe a great deal to Carlos - many were released by clubs after disappointing spells or have come from lower levels - they stood on the brink of the premier league - something most of these players could only dream of. They were a very tight knit unit with a fantastic team spirit. The players knew we are only 2 or 3 good players short of having a real good go at going one better next season. Carlos addressed every player individually when he broke the news to them. It's a hammer blow to many of them but they are professionals end of the day and will do their jobs.
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Post by paulsmith1954 on Jul 9, 2022 10:12:10 GMT 1
Once again, a fabulous post Maynardblue, and despite all the goings on in the last 48 hours if that happens it could still be a great season.
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ram on Jul 9, 2022 10:13:28 GMT 1
At least the club is saving on his salary now,will that now go to new players wages?
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Post by hoggy1975 on Jul 9, 2022 10:37:31 GMT 1
A number of our players owe a great deal to Carlos - many were released by clubs after disappointing spells or have come from lower levels - they stood on the brink of the premier league - something most of these players could only dream of. They were a very tight knit unit with a fantastic team spirit. The players knew we are only 2 or 3 good players short of having a real good go at going one better next season. Carlos addressed every player individually when he broke the news to them. It's a hammer blow to many of them but they are professionals end of the day and will do their jobs. Do you think we will see any loan players coming in? With the World Cup coming up and subs benches increased in the prem I can see a few big teams holding onto their youngsters until January.
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Post by horaceofhorbury on Jul 9, 2022 10:40:16 GMT 1
A number of our players owe a great deal to Carlos - many were released by clubs after disappointing spells or have come from lower levels - they stood on the brink of the premier league - something most of these players could only dream of. They were a very tight knit unit with a fantastic team spirit. The players knew we are only 2 or 3 good players short of having a real good go at going one better next season. Carlos addressed every player individually when he broke the news to them. It's a hammer blow to many of them but they are professionals end of the day and will do their jobs. Thank you Maynardblue. Any insight into how club and manager's vision became quite so 'un-aligned' that the head coach didn't see himself able to support it in the space of a few weeks? Surely the vision and strategy are a joint endeavour - board, management, coaches and to some degree playing staff? I have had concerns for some time that the chairman is also acting as CEO. I worry there is no-one able to speak truth unto power or provide informed challenge at a very senior level. The manager (head coach) needs just as much managing as any other employee. Somehow this hasn't happened or surely the club would not have been quite so caught off-guard as they were with just 3 weeks before the season starts. I might suggest the necessary checks and balances required for any successful enterprise to be a good employer, invest in talent and prosper long term do not appear to be supported by such a structure and consequently the Board may wish to consider undertaking a review of the current arrangements with some urgency. This, I suggest, would benefit not only the new head coach but more importantly the whole club over time.
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Jul 9, 2022 11:17:41 GMT 1
I’d agree with that. Long term you can’t have a CEO thinking with his wallet. They need to be able to balance the wishes of the chairman and Bromby’s role.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 9, 2022 11:19:40 GMT 1
Dunno Ted. Most expectations on here a year ago were that we'd go down or at least struggle to avoid it. All these players were still happy to come here , or stay here, and pick up their wages. I dont think Carlos's communication skills were good enough that his personality will be a defining factor for these players. Sometimes a manager moves on and you can see how without HIM, it just wont be the same, because he is such a big presence.. such a big character. Think we had that with Wagner, but Ive never got that feeling with Carlos at all. Might be due to the language barrier or just how he is, but Carlos lacked any kind of charisma at all IMO. So if Schofield is a continuation of the football style and ethos , and by all accounts thats just what he'll be, then I doubt there's been a huge change here really. Id be surprised if the players dont generally have a better relationship with Schofield than they did with Carlos. I find it an odd assumption on your part that the players would have a better relationship with DS than with CC, just because you personally didn't take to CC, or struggled to understand him.
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 9, 2022 11:20:14 GMT 1
He might well be announced somewhere else shortly? Doesn't mean he's been tapped up though. Could be just now he's available a club moves for him. That’d be convenient wouldn’t it? I think he’s gonna appear somewhere else aswell, probably Leeds.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 9, 2022 11:21:59 GMT 1
"Yeah I was a bit surprised at this claim that the players are angry about it" Truth is slapps that you can take most of this insider guff with a pinch of salt .. I do think that some players might be reevaluating their career paths though given that Carlos going APPEARS to signal that we (and the players) need to revise our expectations for the upcoming season The sentence regarding the anger of the players isn't conjecture or 'guff', if it was then it wouldn't have been included in the text.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 9, 2022 11:27:42 GMT 1
"Yeah I was a bit surprised at this claim that the players are angry about it" Truth is slapps that you can take most of this insider guff with a pinch of salt .. I do think that some players might be reevaluating their career paths though given that Carlos going APPEARS to signal that we (and the players) need to revise our expectations for the upcoming season The sentence regarding the anger of the players isn't conjecture or 'guff', if it was then it wouldn't have been included in the text. I don't doubt for a second that they are pissed off because they want the best from their careers and Carlos was maximising that
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jul 9, 2022 11:29:26 GMT 1
A number of our players owe a great deal to Carlos - many were released by clubs after disappointing spells or have come from lower levels - they stood on the brink of the premier league - something most of these players could only dream of. They were a very tight knit unit with a fantastic team spirit. The players knew we are only 2 or 3 good players short of having a real good go at going one better next season. Carlos addressed every player individually when he broke the news to them. It's a hammer blow to many of them but they are professionals end of the day and will do their jobs. Thank you Maynardblue. Any insight into how club and manager's vision became quite so 'un-aligned' that the head coach didn't see himself able to support it in the space of a few weeks? Surely the vision and strategy are a joint endeavour - board, management, coaches and to some degree playing staff? I have had concerns for some time that the chairman is also acting as CEO. I worry there is no-one able to speak truth unto power or provide informed challenge at a very senior level. The manager (head coach) needs just as much managing as any other employee. Somehow this hasn't happened or surely the club would not have been quite so caught off-guard as they were with just 3 weeks before the season starts. I might suggest the necessary checks and balances required for any successful enterprise to be a good employer, invest in talent and prosper long term do not appear to be supported by such a structure and consequently the Board may wish to consider undertaking a review of the current arrangements with some urgency. This, I suggest, would benefit not only the new head coach but more importantly the whole club over time. The 'misaligned vision' comes from DH's failure to live up to his promise to back Carlos in the transfer window (which was stated publicly, immediately after the Play off final) CC and the players wanted us to push on and fight for another chance, with the necessary reinforcements in what is going to be a much more competitive league this time out. DH has other priorities.
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Post by specialun on Jul 9, 2022 11:51:26 GMT 1
I’m more surprised some of you are shocked he’s jumped than the departure itself. No shock - Only surprise is the timing
The majority of the squad has been put together under Carlos - aside Toffolo, Hogg, Koroma and O’Brien. It’s been clear for a year what our transfer policy is - current signings all for that mode, more needed + loans. No shock.
It was clear in January he was given more resources short term as had been promised - Eiting / Anjorin both being underused and luxury players. We won’t have that depth this season. No shock
This year will be hard. It typically is post play off failures. Short turnaround, early season start all to our disadvantage. But key is less financial stress for the competition - more than 18 teams with a chance of promotion this season! No shock
I find the CowshedLoyal tweet like you’d expect from a Massive fan - think the sun has gone to a few peoples heads!
The only odd bit is why 1 of his coaches quit with him… and the other didn’t… sure we’ll be posting about that soon enough
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Post by tepidterrier on Jul 9, 2022 12:28:00 GMT 1
I’m more surprised some of you are shocked he’s jumped than the departure itself. No shock - Only surprise is the timing The majority of the squad has been put together under Carlos - aside Toffolo, Hogg, Koroma and O’Brien. It’s been clear for a year what our transfer policy is - current signings all for that mode, more needed + loans. No shock. It was clear in January he was given more resources short term as had been promised - Eiting / Anjorin both being underused and luxury players. We won’t have that depth this season. No shock This year will be hard. It typically is post play off failures. Short turnaround, early season start all to our disadvantage. But key is less financial stress for the competition - more than 18 teams with a chance of promotion this season! No shock I find the CowshedLoyal tweet like you’d expect from a Massive fan - think the sun has gone to a few peoples heads! The only odd bit is why 1 of his coaches quit with him… and the other didn’t… sure we’ll be posting about that soon enough Alarcon quit with him as they've been associated with each other for quite a long time. I reckon they quite solidly come as a pair as they've worked together at three clubs, dating back 8 years. Pelach didn't work with Carlos before Town, I believe they met while on a course together at Man City or something like that?
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Post by tepidterrier on Jul 9, 2022 12:42:40 GMT 1
The statement reads like a kid that wants more spend. Not sure where they got the idea we needed statements from a group that we’ve barely heard a peep out of since the premier league, their performance is worse than any at board level. We finished 3rd and are trying to be sustainable if you want the glitz and glamour of big signings town aren’t the club for you, never have been. We all dream of a billionaire taking over and sending us to the promised land but in reality it never happens be careful what you wish for The fact they've issued a statement at all is pretty funny. Do you see themselves as some kind of continental style ultras group who's opinions the club should be really concerned about as it carries real weight amongst the fanbase? Arent they just a group of fans who sit behind the goal, usually getting totally outsung by the opposition support unless we're actually winning the game? Nothing wrong with that, but thats all Ive ever seen them as. And now theyre issuing 'statements'! Fuck me rigid, as jello would say. very harsh, but no lies detected! Firstly I appreciate their effort with the banners, attempting to make more of an atmosphere, and being a volunteer run group with their hearts in the right place, but what they're saying has no more weight than if any other supporters group tweeted something. I don't like the 'we have it on good authority that the players are angry' bit either- they don't know that and they don't know who, but are saying it anyway because it justifies their anger however much truth is in it.
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