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Post by impact on Nov 26, 2022 0:53:08 GMT 1
I genuinely think that if any manager in the world doesn't win a game and leaves Foden on the bench, they should be immediately banned from football for life.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 26, 2022 0:58:45 GMT 1
Good to see England get the same toys out of pram reaction Town get if they dont win a game!  Yeah we didnt play at all well tonight. Lots of performances WAY below what the player is capable of. But the USA arent a bunch of mugs, theyre a decent side. As lots of other 'fancied' sides are finding out , if youre not at your best, then you will struggle in games against these so called minor nations... Germany, Argentina, Belgium, Holland, Portrugal.... Brazil were toiling for most of the game against Serbia. Anyone would think were on the plane home! Weve all but qualified after 2 games and a win against Wales will guarantee top spot in the group. What have england done in recent decades to deserve the expectation we will win every game with ease like a lot seem to think we should?? Nobody I know expected mondays result and most expected a tough game tonight. Being outrun and outplayed wasnt expected though. I did and do expect more desire and more attacking purpose from England. Its dissapointing not terminal but it does show a continuing lack of consistency in performance and graft that trips us up eventually. Having seen them play today, Mondays result was probably better than people have given us credit for because Iran are a good team,. Inconsistency happens especially with young players. Bellingham and Saka were both very good against Iran. Both terrible tonight. But there were a lot of poor performances tonight. Trippier, Mount, Kane, Rice.. all having a really off day. The only player we had who impressed was Maguire. But I dont see any need for hysterics.. We still got a valuable point and will still almost certainly win the group. Just need to accept it was a shit performance and move on. 2nd game of last years Euros we could only draw with Scotland FFS! But we still got to the final and should have won it. |
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Post by jasrick on Nov 26, 2022 1:09:23 GMT 1
Where do we start with that tonight?! It’s tragic that the greatest generation of England players in my lifetime (DOB 1988) is being held back by such a negative manager. Any manager worth their salt has this team as one of the favourites to win the World Cup. Player for player there are few if any squads I’d prefer over ours.
The post match interviews were concerning. Both Kane and Maguire emphasising what a good team USA are. That kind of rhetoric comes from the manager and it’s horseshit. If that USA team are in the premier league they’re scrapping relegation. The England team are champions league contenders. We should be crushing teams like USA and the manager should be telling them so. Instead, you know the language coming from Southgate is that we need to respect the opposition. Screw that. We don’t need to. We’re infinitely better than them and should be showing it.
And as many have mentioned already… Foden. Give me strength. Where is he Gareth?!
As I said to begin with, it’s tragic to witness this happening. Incredibly talented group of players being strangled by a hopeless manager.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Nov 26, 2022 7:40:42 GMT 1
As Gary Neville said in the build up last night, the FA are and always have been a risk averse organisation. Southgate is a perfect fit for them
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 26, 2022 7:49:25 GMT 1
I haven't seen any hysterics but I have seen (and displayed myself) understandable anger and frustration at last night's performance.
I always go back to this, football is about entertainment. I think it was Bill Shankly who referred to the average working man (let's replace 'man' with the word 'person') needing some escape at the end of a hard week and it was football's duty to provide that magic, that entertainment, that escape for a few hours. Where was that last night? That was bullshit sideways, backwards cowardball we were served up by some of the best players in the country. And that fear comes from a coward of a manager. An FA yes man. We should be playing the beautiful game. With the amount of talent we have in that squad. Teams like USA should be fearing us, not the other way 'round. That's why there's anger.
And where's the momentum now ? You have to build momentum for a successful tournament. Southgate has taken all the momentum from an outstanding performance against Iran and suffocated the life out of it. He's taken players who were 10ft tall and moving the ball around silky smooth and scoring for fun and turned them into shivering, cowardly wimps, bereft of confidence and too afraid to move the ball forward. He was a coward against Italy in the final when fell deeper and deeper into our own half as the match wore on and he'll always be a conservative coward.
How do you build confidence in your players longer term that you can beat a Spain, an Argentina or a Brazil after playing negative and soiling your pants against the US of fucking A? That's why folk are angry and let down, not hysterical. Disappointed. Totally let down. Folk deserve better than that after a week's work. Folk deserve better than that having spent thousands upon thousands on travel and tickets.
Folk will say a point's a point and yes it is but let's see what the longer term ramifications turn out to be. One thing's for sure, we've given Wales something, however slim, to play for. Three points last night and we could have been utilising the full squad against Wales, resting players, giving certain players game time, giving some players valuable experience and confidence, preparing or resting certain players for the knockout stages. Yesterday was a big backwards step.
If that was a boxing match, you'd have to be bent not to have awarded it to the USA on points. Pathetic performance from England on the world's biggest stage.
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Post by captainblack on Nov 26, 2022 8:24:11 GMT 1
We have very talented players , unfortunately last night
they just did not perform to the level we expect. I
thought Maguire and Stones were our best players , which
says everything about our performance.
Having watched Wales against Iran , I really cannot see anything
but an England victory . It was poor last night but it looks
as though we will progress unless there is an unlikely collapse
against Wales .
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Post by turbo2 on Nov 26, 2022 8:34:16 GMT 1
As Gary Neville said in the build up last night, the FA are and always have been a risk averse organisation. Southgate is a perfect fit for them I totally agree with that. But I’ll add, Gareth’s biggest attribute to me is his intelligence and capabilities with the media. The uk media have always been toxic when the England team and manager are concerned but Gareth has dealt with them really well. Look back at how they treated Bobby robson. Widely regarded as one of the best managers of all time |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 8:43:32 GMT 1
Before the tournament, if someone had said you can go in to the final group match knowing you are through as long as you don’t lose by 4 goals, I would have taken that. International tournament football is tough. Physically and mentally. Once you are in knockout stages, anything can happen.
Last night was a tough watch but credit to USA for their commitment to the game. For all our supposed failings, it was their tireless running that closed spaces down.
I was wondering about Foden not coming on but having watched Southgate’s press conference it at least made sense as to the reasons. Wether it was right or wrong is another matter. No one knows how it would have panned out had he come on. We have at least 2 more games and I have no doubt more of the squad will have a part to play.
Still think we look good. Not good enough to win the thing but we will put up a good fight.
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Post by space hardware on Nov 26, 2022 8:59:15 GMT 1
The US bossed the game, apart from the first 10 mins. Even then we weren't exactly swarming all over them and peppering their goal.
They're an energetic but limited team. If we can't handle their pressing game it doesn't bode well for what's to come.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 9:04:59 GMT 1
The US bossed the game, apart from the first 10 mins. Even then we weren't exactly swarming all over them and peppering their goal. They're an energetic but limited team. If we can't handle their pressing game it doesn't bode well for what's to come. When you say can’t handle it, for all their bossing, they didn’t do anything? |
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Post by space hardware on Nov 26, 2022 9:18:43 GMT 1
The US bossed the game, apart from the first 10 mins. Even then we weren't exactly swarming all over them and peppering their goal. They're an energetic but limited team. If we can't handle their pressing game it doesn't bode well for what's to come. When you say can’t handle it, for all their bossing, they didn’t do anything? Apart from hit the bar and spoon a golden chance over from 8 yards out, centre of goal, completely unmarked? No, they didn't do anything. 0-0 flattered us. To suggest anything else is blinkered and completely wrong. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 9:36:55 GMT 1
When you say can’t handle it, for all their bossing, they didn’t do anything? Apart from hit the bar and spoon a golden chance over from 8 yards out, centre of goal, completely unmarked? No, they didn't do anything. 0-0 flattered us. To suggest anything else is blinkered and completely wrong. I’m not suggesting 0-0 flattered us but to say we couldn’t handle them in a game that finished 0-0 just seems a bit dramatic. Maybe my expectations are a bit lower than yours. I see us as a team good enough to get out of a group and possibly get to the last 8 or last 4, at best, dependant on the draw. No one seems to be giving any credit to the opposition. This isn’t the US of old, they have good players and are in an upward trajectory for the next World Cup. They were deservedly the better team for their work rate alone. But at the end of the day they couldn’t win and couldn’t score. |
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Post by space hardware on Nov 26, 2022 9:58:22 GMT 1
Apart from hit the bar and spoon a golden chance over from 8 yards out, centre of goal, completely unmarked? No, they didn't do anything. 0-0 flattered us. To suggest anything else is blinkered and completely wrong. I’m not suggesting 0-0 flattered us but to say we couldn’t handle them in a game that finished 0-0 just seems a bit dramatic. Maybe my expectations are a bit lower than yours. I see us as a team good enough to get out of a group and possibly get to the last 8 or last 4, at best, dependant on the draw. No one seems to be giving any credit to the opposition. This isn’t the US of old, they have good players and are in an upward trajectory for the next World Cup. They were deservedly the better team for their work rate alone. But at the end of the day they couldn’t win and couldn’t score. Maybe. It was more aimed at Southgate's comments, to be honest. "The players are a bit down but I'm not. I thought we controlled the game, our two centre-backs with the ball were outstanding. We lacked a little bit of zip in the final third tonight." At no point we were in control. They were walking through our midfield, at times. The centre backs passed the ball between themselves most of the time, hardly outstanding "with the ball". We were hardly in their final third to have any "zip". The guy is holding us back and his comments are delusional, at best. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Nov 26, 2022 10:27:22 GMT 1
I’m not suggesting 0-0 flattered us but to say we couldn’t handle them in a game that finished 0-0 just seems a bit dramatic. Maybe my expectations are a bit lower than yours. I see us as a team good enough to get out of a group and possibly get to the last 8 or last 4, at best, dependant on the draw. No one seems to be giving any credit to the opposition. This isn’t the US of old, they have good players and are in an upward trajectory for the next World Cup. They were deservedly the better team for their work rate alone. But at the end of the day they couldn’t win and couldn’t score. Maybe. It was more aimed at Southgate's comments, to be honest. "The players are a bit down but I'm not. I thought we controlled the game, our two centre-backs with the ball were outstanding. We lacked a little bit of zip in the final third tonight." At no point we were in control. They were walking through our midfield, at times. The centre backs passed the ball between themselves most of the time, hardly outstanding "with the ball". We were hardly in their final third to have any "zip". The guy is holding us back and his comments are delusional, at best. Its the performance that later on will see us go out. It might well be against a better side but its as likely to be a more motivated side. Over the tournaments we have lost to both. Iran sat off us and we took full advantage of plenty of possession under little pressure in their half. Once pressed yesterday further up the pitch we lost our way, became very narrow and the support for the ball was patchy at best. To reiterate, if the opposition look like they have more players than you all over the pitch in open play they are working harder or much smarter than you are. Its not the end of the world cup yet. |
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Post by pterrier on Nov 26, 2022 10:32:55 GMT 1
Southgate is increasingly showing he’s out of his depth with the resources at his disposal. I agree with all the other references regarding mount/foden etc but I’ll controversially add that we either play a new system to suit Kane or we replace him with the faster option of rashford or Wilson because I’m sick of him dropping deep and not being an effective outball; we looked like town with Jordan Rhodes up front on his own: no pace, no guile, no running the channels; just turgid and flat.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 26, 2022 10:42:05 GMT 1
Fucking criminal that Foden didn't play a second. If I was him I'd be sticking two fingers up and going home I find it incredible he doesn't start, nevermind not get on. He doesn't look anywhere near out of place in a side featuring unbelievable players like DeBruyne, Silva, Haaland yet can't get in the England team. Former England goalkeeper Rob Green said it seems that Southgate "doesn't consider" Foden in any position other than out wide. "That was the direct choice. Is it Rashford or Foden? Is it Grealish or Foden? Not 'can I stick him in where Mount is [centrally]?' It is just not a consideration in this side," said Green. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 10:48:26 GMT 1
I’m not suggesting 0-0 flattered us but to say we couldn’t handle them in a game that finished 0-0 just seems a bit dramatic. Maybe my expectations are a bit lower than yours. I see us as a team good enough to get out of a group and possibly get to the last 8 or last 4, at best, dependant on the draw. No one seems to be giving any credit to the opposition. This isn’t the US of old, they have good players and are in an upward trajectory for the next World Cup. They were deservedly the better team for their work rate alone. But at the end of the day they couldn’t win and couldn’t score. Maybe. It was more aimed at Southgate's comments, to be honest. "The players are a bit down but I'm not. I thought we controlled the game, our two centre-backs with the ball were outstanding. We lacked a little bit of zip in the final third tonight." At no point we were in control. They were walking through our midfield, at times. The centre backs passed the ball between themselves most of the time, hardly outstanding "with the ball". We were hardly in their final third to have any "zip". The guy is holding us back and his comments are delusional, at best. Fair enough mate. I know I’m in an absolute minority but I don’t get the Southgate hate. At all levels it’s a results business and he has taken us to a World Cup semi and Euro final in his 2 tournaments. No other England manager has ever done that. |
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Post by golcarexile on Nov 26, 2022 10:50:13 GMT 1
Guardiola must be scratching his head at the Foden situation. I think he must be pretty much the first name on the Man city team sheet these days.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 26, 2022 10:56:55 GMT 1
Maybe. It was more aimed at Southgate's comments, to be honest. "The players are a bit down but I'm not. I thought we controlled the game, our two centre-backs with the ball were outstanding. We lacked a little bit of zip in the final third tonight." At no point we were in control. They were walking through our midfield, at times. The centre backs passed the ball between themselves most of the time, hardly outstanding "with the ball". We were hardly in their final third to have any "zip". The guy is holding us back and his comments are delusional, at best. Fair enough mate. I know I’m in an absolute minority but I don’t get the Southgate hate. At all levels it’s a results business and he has taken us to a World Cup semi and Euro final in his 2 tournaments. No other England manager has ever done that. I'd say that's despite Southgate rather than because of him, with the players he's had at his disposal. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 11:16:26 GMT 1
Fair enough mate. I know I’m in an absolute minority but I don’t get the Southgate hate. At all levels it’s a results business and he has taken us to a World Cup semi and Euro final in his 2 tournaments. No other England manager has ever done that. I'd say that's despite Southgate rather than because of him, with the players he's had at his disposal. No one will ever know. We had Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and did nowt. It’s not all about attacking options but it’s all people seem to focus on. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 26, 2022 11:18:20 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 26, 2022 11:22:00 GMT 1
I'd say that's despite Southgate rather than because of him, with the players he's had at his disposal. No one will ever know. We had Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and did nowt. It’s not all about attacking options but it’s all people seem to focus on. Get a solid base and use your superior attacking options. Southgate wants a solid defensive base with a solid defensive midfield and attackers to defend. He doesn't play to the strengths his squad have. |
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henryc
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by henryc on Nov 26, 2022 11:22:51 GMT 1
Bloody hell anyone would think we'd been knocked out, it was a disappointing performance and USA were better, avoid defeat against Wales and hope USA dont hammer Iran and we top the group, reminds me of the ire on here last season when town drew a match.  Agreed it wasn’t a disaster and the defence should take some confidence keeping a clean sheet in a game that we played poor, Maguire mom for me. It’s a big opportunity missed after the Iran result though to get the attacking players firing and enjoying the tournament. We should have been looking to blitz both of these games knowing we only needed to win one. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Nov 26, 2022 11:31:40 GMT 1
No one will ever know. We had Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and did nowt. It’s not all about attacking options but it’s all people seem to focus on. Get a solid base and use your superior attacking options. Southgate wants a solid defensive base with a solid defensive midfield and attackers to defend. He doesn't play to the strengths his squad have. Yeah that seems to be the popular opinion. Like I said, I know I’m in a minority but I don’t mind the guy and am ok with how we play and how we do in tournaments. |
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ram
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ram on Nov 26, 2022 11:41:07 GMT 1
When I saw the team sheet I was amazed that the side that finished the 2nd half against Iran wasn,t the one to start.Not saying owt else.
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Post by rockwall on Nov 26, 2022 12:39:08 GMT 1
Southgate an FA puppet.
Not one coach in the world apart from Gareth would NOT have played Foden.
Sterling and Mount must have something om Gareth as they have both been abysmal in both games. Sterling got a goal V Iran but that was about it.
Foden and Rashford/Grealish have to start V Wales.
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Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
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Post by Tinpot on Nov 26, 2022 12:43:59 GMT 1
If you'd offered me 4 points and a +4GD after 2 games, only needing to avoid a 3 goal loss to Wales to qualify I'd have taken it. But that's not the whole story.
It's not even that we played badly that worries me. I mean (this tournament's media scapegoat) Maguire and Stones aside I don't think anyone can hold their (fucking massive or otherwise) heads up after that. Grealish tried to get things going when he came on as well, but the rest were lacklustre.
If the aim was to simply "not lose" rather than go for the win, then quite apart from that being an embarrassing approach against a bang average side, it only succeeded because of the dumb luck of Pulisic hitting the bar and the dumb as fuck finishing from McKennie.
It's not as though we don't have attacking talent to call on.
It can be assessed in two ways:
* Optimistically we're pretty much through, and it was just one bad performance from a side that has made the semi final in both of the last major tournaments, only losing the final on penalties in the previous one.
* Pessimistically, it was a perfect example to illustrate the criticism of Southgate's approach. That we are wasting the what is possibly the best, most talented crop of players, the most balanced and motivated squad we've ever had.
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rickrast
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by rickrast on Nov 26, 2022 12:57:46 GMT 1
Perhaps the defence, which has been seen as the team's weak link, might have gained a bit more confidence and self-belief after that performance.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Nov 26, 2022 13:03:27 GMT 1
I'd say that's despite Southgate rather than because of him, with the players he's had at his disposal. No one will ever know. We had Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and did nowt. It’s not all about attacking options but it’s all people seem to focus on. The squad then had talented players but it was flawed. It was hugely unbalanced. There was no defensive midfield base to give the attacking talent a platform as we have now. There was nobody capable on the left side of midfield as we have now. That wasn't a united squad. It was a collection of players who appeared to see themselves as Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool players, not England players. This - by their own admission - led to cliques forming and the Liverpool players not mixing with the Man Utd players, who were not mixing with the Chelsea players. Some gave every impression that they felt they were doing England a favour just turning up, and egos got in the way. See Steven Gerrard abandoning the right side of midfield and getting in the way of Frank Lampard because he wanted to play centrally as a prime example. I just think that however talented certain individual players were in that era, there were flaws then that there just aren't in this squad. This is the best squad England have ever had. |
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Post by sabailand on Nov 26, 2022 14:04:12 GMT 1
No one will ever know. We had Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard, Beckham, Owen, Shearer and did nowt. It’s not all about attacking options but it’s all people seem to focus on. Get a solid base and use your superior attacking options. Southgate wants a solid defensive base with a solid defensive midfield and attackers to defend. He doesn't play to the strengths his squad have. You're right tbh, people (including myself) have said Southgate is the most successfull manager England have had in decades, statistically its correct but im sure things could be even better if we weren't as defensive minded, world cup semi and Euro final both instances where being a bit more daring 'might' have seen us go one better, i do actually think England are a good team, a semi and a final are proof of that, but being a be a bit more adventurous just might pay dividends. |
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