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Post by 28901 on May 3, 2023 20:52:18 GMT 1
Reluctantly agreed. I think a big part of his success was due to him spotting something that British clubs weren't doing, regarding double training sessions, taking account of circadian rhythms etc. then doing it before anyone else. Unfortunately, everyone else was able to copy it. A hugely influential chap and I love him for what he did here last time but it's a no from me. I am (very reluctantly) coming around to the same view. It's actually the Leeds fans with Bielsa recently that made me realise. There are so many parallels. As soon as teams worked Bielsa out they were so so easy to play against. 1 pass through the press and you're in. I didn't get how they still fawned over him. Just like I ignore everything after 17/18 with Wagner, they ignore that last season with Bielsa when he was taking them down. In reality, I think they both brought something very novel to England but both have become outdated and now fairly comfortable to play against. Its interesting. My Leeds work mate hasn't renewed his season ticket. Not because they're possibly going down but because the football was so entertaining with Bielsa.
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Post by brighousebandbred on May 3, 2023 20:54:24 GMT 1
This. Very hard for so many on here to swallow, but it's the truth. A very lucky man. Lucky for two whole seasons. That's going some. Would love nothing better than for it to be with town and bring this thread back up for those knocking DW , unfortunately it will probably be with Norwich that he proves himself. ( he’s not had two minutes there yet to impose his management ideas) The fools will still say he got lucky again though . Ignorance is bliss. Can’t even be grateful for 2 years of his great tenure just want to say he got lucky .
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Post by 28901 on May 3, 2023 21:04:14 GMT 1
A very lucky man. Lucky for two whole seasons. That's going some. Would love nothing better than for it to be with town and bring this thread back up for those knocking DW , unfortunately it will probably be with Norwich that he proves himself. ( he’s not had two minutes there yet to impose his management ideas) The fools will still say he got lucky again though . Ignorance is bliss. Can’t even be grateful for 2 years of his great tenure just want to say he got lucky . He transformed Town almost immediately. He was ahead of the curve back then. Not sure he is now..
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Post by onesteviekindon on May 3, 2023 21:05:22 GMT 1
I'm just looking at our possible options for next season and there aren't that many. Warnock has done pretty well in his second spell here (whatever the final outcome) so why not Wagner?
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Post by brighousebandbred on May 3, 2023 21:08:15 GMT 1
Id take him back here all day long, yes it might tarnish the legacy a little but what and who is the alternative? Bit simplistic saying all managers who fail somewhere are crap! Are we also writing off Dean Smith? Pretty much any manager in the world will have failures on their CV and there are extenuating circumstances. The Norwich job pretty much the polar opposite to the one he took on here. Could it happen? Probably not but in this life you always meet twice We could, and have, done a lot, lot, LOT worse than Sir David Wagner! He's only had failures since he left us, is that just bad luck 🤨 If you’re silly enough to think being a football manager is a simple case of success or failure defining if you’re a good manager or not, and not realising the thousand other implications that hamper the role are mostly far more defineing then Ok this conversation is easy for your sake he got lucky as anything else is obviously irrelevant. 🤪
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on May 3, 2023 21:16:49 GMT 1
Wagner got lucky with Aaron Mooy but everything else he earnt. But would we have been promoted without Mooy, probably not. Recruiting a great player isn't lucky.
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Post by Porrohman on May 3, 2023 21:36:15 GMT 1
He's only had failures since he left us, is that just bad luck 🤨 If you’re silly enough to think being a football manager is a simple case of success or failure defining if you’re a good manager or not, and not realising the thousand other implications that hamper the role are mostly far more defineing then Ok this conversation is easy for your sake he got lucky as anything else is obviously irrelevant. 🤪 But it's been nothing but failure since he left, there's not been quiet, average seasons. There's been the worst run in a clubs history, taking a team that have won the league 4 times on the bounce to a finish 15 points off top place and perennial yoyo club Norwich, with one of the best squads in the league, to a finish outside the play off places. What he did at Town was phenomenal but it looks like it was a one off in his managerial career.
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Post by Porrohman on May 3, 2023 21:37:22 GMT 1
Wagner got lucky with Aaron Mooy but everything else he earnt. But would we have been promoted without Mooy, probably not. Recruiting a great player isn't lucky. Didn't City come to us with him rather than us ask them ?
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Post by Torquayterrier on May 3, 2023 21:50:12 GMT 1
Been done to death but I think it would be too much expectation if he came back. He had his best times as a coach here but I think we'd be looking to get lightning in a bottle all over again. New owner, new broom. Time for a full reset from the bottom up if the budget allows.
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Post by Der Blitzbomber on May 3, 2023 22:34:08 GMT 1
He can come back in 26 years if we find ourselves in a sticky situation again... just like Warnock.
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Post by Metch on May 3, 2023 22:47:24 GMT 1
Wagner got lucky with Aaron Mooy but everything else he earnt. But would we have been promoted without Mooy, probably not. Recruiting a great player isn't lucky. I got the impression Man City offered Mooy to us. We didn't seek him out and Wagner didn't seek him out. Hence we were lucky to get him
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Post by brighousebandbred on May 3, 2023 23:00:22 GMT 1
If you’re silly enough to think being a football manager is a simple case of success or failure defining if you’re a good manager or not, and not realising the thousand other implications that hamper the role are mostly far more defineing then Ok this conversation is easy for your sake he got lucky as anything else is obviously irrelevant. 🤪 But it's been nothing but failure since he left, there's not been quiet, average seasons. There's been the worst run in a clubs history, taking a team that have won the league 4 times on the bounce to a finish 15 points off top place and perennial yoyo club Norwich, with one of the best squads in the league, to a finish outside the play off places. What he did at Town was phenomenal but it looks like it was a one off in his managerial career. We will see .
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Post by cissystrutt74 on May 3, 2023 23:09:28 GMT 1
I'd be more than happy to start next season with DW in charge under new owners
Even if he's only half as good as he was he'll still be 100% better than Fotheringham, sievert and practically everyone that came after him, and several before...Wadsworth? That fella eating his Xmas dinner at home, geordie fella etc
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Post by harrychrishner on May 3, 2023 23:13:15 GMT 1
For those who'd like him back you might like this anagram of his name:
I'D AV D.WAGNER
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Post by impact on May 3, 2023 23:49:43 GMT 1
Id take him back here all day long, yes it might tarnish the legacy a little but what and who is the alternative? Bit simplistic saying all managers who fail somewhere are crap! Are we also writing off Dean Smith? Pretty much any manager in the world will have failures on their CV and there are extenuating circumstances. The Norwich job pretty much the polar opposite to the one he took on here. Could it happen? Probably not but in this life you always meet twice We could, and have, done a lot, lot, LOT worse than Sir David Wagner! He's only had failures since he left us, is that just bad luck 🤨 That entirely depends on what you call failures. Schalke went on a worse run after he left. They're currently in the relegation zone again as the club is a mess. Young Boys aren't doing much better points wise this season compared to when he left. The difference being the side who won it last year had a fluke season and are now 3rd from bottom and a relegation contender. Wagner had 49 points from 25 games when he left. 2nd in the league this year has 46 points from 31 games. It was just one of those years.
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htafcokay
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Post by htafcokay on May 4, 2023 0:15:01 GMT 1
There's always an excuse isn't there?
Such a great manager that has left his last three clubs in a worse position than he found them in.
But people just won't have it.
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htafcokay
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Post by htafcokay on May 4, 2023 0:16:00 GMT 1
Norwich won’t be sacking Wagner and if they did I would take him here in a heartbeat. Norwich need a pre season with DW and I for one will be having a cheeky little bet on them gaining promotion next year if they stay with him. Too many town fans happy to put the man down on this forum , beggars belief after what he did and how he did it here. A bloody messiah, hom and warnock. I saw his interview after the wba game , didn’t look like a man down trod or beaten more like a man really looking forward to next year with huge ambition. Save your dosh.
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Post by willo on May 4, 2023 0:19:55 GMT 1
I’d wager those arguing Wagner got lucky are the same few who said Billing wouldn’t last 5 minutes in the Premier League. Seems to be doing ok last time I looked.
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Post by Convictatthemac on May 4, 2023 8:11:26 GMT 1
I’d have Wagner back if we were looking at Fotheringham, Siewert and Schofield types, but then I want those who are responsible for those managers sacked. They should be nowhere near our club if that’s their football guess for a manager.
So we shouldn’t be looking at those types and thus I don’t think we should be looking at Wagner.
For all he has done, for all he has achieved with us, he was mighty! But I’m not putting up with a manager who continually looked over the fence and threatened to leave. I can’t stand that type of trait, it’s disloyal, it’s not showing loyalty to the club who gave you your big break.
CC can do one too for the same reasons.
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boooothy
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Post by boooothy on May 4, 2023 8:19:43 GMT 1
Let’s be realistic, unless Kev is changing how we operate, we hardly shop in Harrods for managers.
It’s a yes from me regarding Wagner (played for USA) because i believe the other options would be very uninspiring.
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Post by Der Blitzbomber on May 4, 2023 8:32:22 GMT 1
I wouldn't be upset if he came back, but I'd rather we didn't go down that road. If he came back and failed it would taint the good memories of his first spell here. To be honest getting Corberan back would be less of a gamble, but I don't want him back either despite him owing us big-time. No good looking backwards.
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Post by Detective Boyle on May 4, 2023 8:38:03 GMT 1
Ask yourself this, without Mooy would we have made the playoffs? Absolutely not imo. It shouldn’t be undervalued what Wagner did, but I think Mooy was the number one reason we had a great season, Wagner number two.
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Amigo
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Post by Amigo on May 4, 2023 9:14:22 GMT 1
It's such a difficult decision whether to want him back or not. We had a brilliant squad of characters and grafters, Schindler, Hefele, Lowe, Smith were committed players at the back and even at the front, Kachunga and Wells worked their knackers off, VLP could dribble a ball 50 yards and win a throw in or free kick when we were under pressure. Then there was Aaron Mooy who could pretty much control a game.
Wagner put it all together and got the fans and players on board though to create an incredible atmosphere week in week out.
Due to the players in the squad it probably was just a perfect moment and a huge risk to try recreate it. I do think however he's a manager that works better with an underdog which I think is why it's not really worked at a couple of clubs (I think the other was a mess anyway).
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Post by Captainslapper on May 4, 2023 9:17:11 GMT 1
Totally agree. You may be able to win a cup with a bit of luck but never promotion, not in so many games over a whole season. By your argument, Ranieri got lucky when he led Leicester City to the Premier League title. I wouldn't argue against that claim. Yes, he did really well, and yes, he had some great players in Vardy, Mahrez, Schmeichel, et alia, but... This was a season which featured a perfect storm, when each of the Big Six kept beating one another, and none of them could get much of a run going. It hadn't happened before and it's never happened since - fluke? Quite possibly... Id agree. Think Ranieri is a much better example of 'luck'. He inherited that Leicester side and he didnt really change anything. The team were already playing in that style under Nigel Pearson and had finished the previous season like a train doing it. Even during the title season he didnt have to change anything...no real injuries to speak of...just sent the same players out game after game, to carry on playing the same way regardless of the opposition. His main task was psychological, to stop the players choking as the finishing line came into sight, and he did that very well.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on May 4, 2023 9:21:18 GMT 1
Mark Robins could be on to achieving a similiar feat.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on May 4, 2023 9:21:54 GMT 1
2016-17 will never be forgotten by those that witnessed it; David Wagner and his entire team will rightly never be forgotten either.
Just as I remember the 1969-70 team off by heart over 50 years later, I predict we’ll do the same for DW and his squad.
We can look back with affection and gratitude, but we shouldn’t look back any longer. The club is about to enter a new era. Let’s move on.
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htafcokay
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Post by htafcokay on May 4, 2023 9:36:51 GMT 1
I genuinely wonder if any other clubs' fans have such an obsession with bringing back former players and managers or if it's just us?
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htafcokay
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Post by htafcokay on May 4, 2023 9:37:29 GMT 1
2016-17 will never be forgotten by those that witnessed it; David Wagner and his entire team will rightly never be forgotten either. Just as I remember the 1969-70 team off by heart over 50 years later, I predict we’ll do the same for DW and his squad. We can look back with affection and gratitude, but we shouldn’t look back any longer. The club is about to enter a new era. Let’s move on. I wonder if the fans were saying we should get Greavsie back in when we were struggling under Tom Johnston in the late 70s?
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Post by Torquayterrier on May 4, 2023 10:01:30 GMT 1
For those who'd like him back you might like this anagram of his name: I'D AV D.WAGNER Or Vader Wading and we can play some star wars music before he came out of the tunnel.
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Post by bluebell on May 4, 2023 10:05:27 GMT 1
Bring back Jacko?
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