k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,519
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Post by k1man999 on May 9, 2023 10:43:11 GMT 1
I'd rather watch football like the 2nd halfs in a lot of games since Warnock came in than this tippy tappa shite around the back line. Yes direct at times but we have played some good football in the final third,created chances ,excitement You can't win games playing in your own box but can defo lose them. Last sentence sums it up for me k1. And we spent 2/3rds of the season doing exactly that. But if you’re against it you’re just tagged as a ‘gerrit forad’ type. Exactly you do, but play football in the opposition half just coz you might go direct doesn't mean it's hoofball Playing good long passes down the line in behind for wingers or long switches like heff did in promotion season More than one way to skin a cat.
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Post by Floyds on May 9, 2023 10:48:58 GMT 1
I'd rather watch football like the 2nd halfs in a lot of games since Warnock came in than this tippy tappa shite around the back line. Yes direct at times but we have played some good football in the final third,created chances ,excitement You can't win games playing in your own box but can defo lose them. Agree,never liked the, Defender to Hogg,Hogg to Defender,Defender to Defender,Defender to Hogg,Hogg to Defender,Defender to Goalkeeper,Throw in to opposition. "Hogg in the quarter back role" never seemed to end favourably. Much to everyone's surprise...
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Post by bluesandtwos on May 9, 2023 11:02:06 GMT 1
My favourite style of football is one that results in winning games. Fair enough. A lot of people share your view. Personally, I am not entertained by long ball football, irrespective of the result. Never have been, never will be. For me the result is not the be all and end all. It's the most important thing obviously, but not the only thing. I prefer to enjoy the match as well as the final result. And seeing the ball continually knocked long and high isn't my idea of entertainment. Second half yesterday we broke quickly, passed quickly, mostly, and put Reading under a lot of pressure. I want to see the slick passing, stylish play in the opposition half. Reading came undone yesterday messing about at the back, and Naby is a decent ball player. I know what you mean regarding watching better football but it doesn’t mean playing tippy tappy from the back. We did play out from the back sometimes yesterday though so maybe mix & match?
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Post by ACW on May 9, 2023 13:35:08 GMT 1
I'd rather watch football like the 2nd halfs in a lot of games since Warnock came in than this tippy tappa shite around the back line. Yes direct at times but we have played some good football in the final third,created chances ,excitement You can't win games playing in your own box but can defo lose them. Last sentence sums it up for me k1. And we spent 2/3rds of the season doing exactly that. But if you’re against it you’re just tagged as a ‘gerrit forad’ type. And if you prefer passing football you're wrongly tagged as liking tippy tappy football across the back. It works both ways.
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Post by Terrier Ramone on May 9, 2023 13:40:11 GMT 1
You really have to adapt your approach to who you've got in your squad. Very few teams can play in the Premier League like Man City can, yet they all try to emulate it.
Warnock has proven that we have no need to pass it among the back 4 continuosly, we create far more chances playing like he has had us playing than we did with DS & the scottish feller.
You know you're going to have a boring, lacklustre 1st half, followed by a 20 min spell at the start of the 2nd half where he goes to win the game, then the rest is consolidation. It's about finding the winning formula & the lads then get confidence to rinse & repeat.
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Post by turbo2 on May 9, 2023 13:53:52 GMT 1
Last sentence sums it up for me k1. And we spent 2/3rds of the season doing exactly that. But if you’re against it you’re just tagged as a ‘gerrit forad’ type. And if you prefer passing football you're wrongly tagged as liking tippy tappy football across the back. It works both ways. Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though.
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Post by Mastercracker on May 9, 2023 14:01:29 GMT 1
And if you prefer passing football you're wrongly tagged as liking tippy tappy football across the back. It works both ways. Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though. We didn't concede at Anfield until the 50th minute?
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Post by ACW on May 9, 2023 14:11:39 GMT 1
And if you prefer passing football you're wrongly tagged as liking tippy tappy football across the back. It works both ways. Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though. I will watch Town come hell or high water. No matter the style of play. I also accept many of the arguments about pragmatism and playing to your strengths. What I was talking about earlier was my personal preferences and what I hoped to see next season. I don't want to see our current squad trying to play out from the back. Most of them can't pass very well. What I hope to see over the summer is the recruitment of players that can play what I consider a more entertaining style of football. One which I also think would give us a decent chance of being successful. So, let's be clear: I don't want to see the likes of Ruffels trying to play out from the back. I'd prefer to see more technically proficient players signed so we can pass the ball better with less long balls played from the back. That does not mean I want to see meaningless possession at the back. That does not mean I want to see so-called "tippy tappy" football that goes nowhere. But I make no apologies for not enjoying watching a team - irrespective of their limitations - launching the ball long. I just don't enjoy watching it game in, game out. I accept why Warnock did it and, as a short-term approach it was highly successful. I also accept there was some good football mixed in amongst the percentage balls we played alot of the time. IMO it's not a choice between tippy tappy across the back and long ball. Those are extremes, and both are shite to watch in my opinion. It's not black and white as often portrayed on here. Seems some - not necessarily you Turbo - have difficulty grasping greyer areas and the more subtler aspects of a debate.
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Post by turbo2 on May 9, 2023 14:52:49 GMT 1
Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though. We didn't concede at Anfield until the 50th minute? Think you’ll find we didn’t get to the 50th second in the game I’m quoting
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Post by Mastercracker on May 9, 2023 14:58:49 GMT 1
We didn't concede at Anfield until the 50th minute? Think you’ll find we didn’t get to the 50th second in the game I’m quoting Think you'll find then that Wagner wasn't manager.
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Post by turbo2 on May 9, 2023 15:01:57 GMT 1
Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though. I will watch Town come hell or high water. No matter the style of play. I also accept many of the arguments about pragmatism and playing to your strengths. What I was talking about earlier was my personal preferences and what I hoped to see next season. I don't want to see our current squad trying to play out from the back. Most of them can't pass very well. What I hope to see over the summer is the recruitment of players that can play what I consider a more entertaining style of football. One which I also think would give us a decent chance of being successful. So, let's be clear: I don't want to see the likes of Ruffels trying to play out from the back. I'd prefer to see more technically proficient players signed so we can pass the ball better with less long balls played from the back. That does not mean I want to see meaningless possession at the back. That does not mean I want to see so-called "tippy tappy" football that goes nowhere. But I make no apologies for not enjoying watching a team - irrespective of their limitations - launching the ball long. I just don't enjoy watching it game in, game out. I accept why Warnock did it and, as a short-term approach it was highly successful. I also accept there was some good football mixed in amongst the percentage balls we played alot of the time. IMO it's not a choice between tippy tappy across the back and long ball. Those are extremes, and both are shite to watch in my opinion. It's not black and white as often portrayed on here. Seems some - not necessarily you Turbo - have difficulty grasping greyer areas and the more subtler aspects of a debate. I’m no way advocating some 1980s Wimbledon approach. Just I’d rather not have championship std defenders thinking they are Rio Ferdinand or being exposed because the manager insists on them trying to play that way. I’m interested in the stats that someone will have. Our pass completion rates were dreadful prior to Warnock arriving, mainly because we struggle with the basics of passing and trapping, but have they improved since? I’d suggest not. What did improve was the chances created both on and off target and that’s the part that excites me.
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Post by turbo2 on May 9, 2023 15:03:52 GMT 1
Think you’ll find we didn’t get to the 50th second in the game I’m quoting Think you'll find then that Wagner wasn't manager. You know what I mean. His stupid replacement had exactly the same philosophy
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Post by ACW on May 9, 2023 15:32:32 GMT 1
I will watch Town come hell or high water. No matter the style of play. I also accept many of the arguments about pragmatism and playing to your strengths. What I was talking about earlier was my personal preferences and what I hoped to see next season. I don't want to see our current squad trying to play out from the back. Most of them can't pass very well. What I hope to see over the summer is the recruitment of players that can play what I consider a more entertaining style of football. One which I also think would give us a decent chance of being successful. So, let's be clear: I don't want to see the likes of Ruffels trying to play out from the back. I'd prefer to see more technically proficient players signed so we can pass the ball better with less long balls played from the back. That does not mean I want to see meaningless possession at the back. That does not mean I want to see so-called "tippy tappy" football that goes nowhere. But I make no apologies for not enjoying watching a team - irrespective of their limitations - launching the ball long. I just don't enjoy watching it game in, game out. I accept why Warnock did it and, as a short-term approach it was highly successful. I also accept there was some good football mixed in amongst the percentage balls we played alot of the time. IMO it's not a choice between tippy tappy across the back and long ball. Those are extremes, and both are shite to watch in my opinion. It's not black and white as often portrayed on here. Seems some - not necessarily you Turbo - have difficulty grasping greyer areas and the more subtler aspects of a debate. I’m no way advocating some 1980s Wimbledon approach. Just I’d rather not have championship std defenders thinking they are Rio Ferdinand or being exposed because the manager insists on them trying to play that way. I’m interested in the stats that someone will have. Our pass completion rates were dreadful prior to Warnock arriving, mainly because we struggle with the basics of passing and trapping, but have they improved since? I’d suggest not. What did improve was the chances created both on and off target and that’s the part that excites me. What excites me is the hope that we may sign some players who can pass and trap. I would suggest Championship standard defenders should be able to do this. Otherwise they should be playing further down the leagues.
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goodbet
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,749
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Post by goodbet on May 9, 2023 16:27:52 GMT 1
I’m no way advocating some 1980s Wimbledon approach. Just I’d rather not have championship std defenders thinking they are Rio Ferdinand or being exposed because the manager insists on them trying to play that way. I’m interested in the stats that someone will have. Our pass completion rates were dreadful prior to Warnock arriving, mainly because we struggle with the basics of passing and trapping, but have they improved since? I’d suggest not. What did improve was the chances created both on and off target and that’s the part that excites me. What excites me is the hope that we may sign some players who can pass and trap. I would suggest Championship standard defenders should be able to do this. Otherwise they should be playing further down the leagues. There are plenty defenders in the Championship that can't trap and pass that well. We showed this enough times this season as did Reading yesterday while playing against us.
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Post by turbo2 on May 9, 2023 16:41:36 GMT 1
I’m no way advocating some 1980s Wimbledon approach. Just I’d rather not have championship std defenders thinking they are Rio Ferdinand or being exposed because the manager insists on them trying to play that way. I’m interested in the stats that someone will have. Our pass completion rates were dreadful prior to Warnock arriving, mainly because we struggle with the basics of passing and trapping, but have they improved since? I’d suggest not. What did improve was the chances created both on and off target and that’s the part that excites me. What excites me is the hope that we may sign some players who can pass and trap. I would suggest Championship standard defenders should be able to do this. Otherwise they should be playing further down the leagues. It’s not only our defenders that struggle. Some of our passing stats this season have been incredibly poor. It does make me wonder what they do In training.
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Post by Der Blitzbomber on May 9, 2023 17:06:01 GMT 1
Thing is, when he came to Town, the impact was immediate. We looked like a completely different side within two weeks. Because of this, he got all the fans on board. And while we finished 19th it was a bit of a false position because we'd started to play some really good football and a lot of us were quite hopeful for the future. At Norwich he hasn't done that, he's made them worse (according to their fans). Also, he's seen as Stuart Webber's man and their fans hate Webber, so he's on a loser straight away. Also, it's years ago, and anyone suggesting we bring him back need to look at his recent record. Its awful. I'll never forget that Middlesbrough game, we absolutely played them off the park and did everything but score. The only time I've ever watched us lose but still walked back into town with a big grin on my face... But you do have to compare that to the utter snoozefest that was Powellball- if Big Sam had followed CP the football would have been seen as an improvement, as at least there'd be a bit of goalmouth action.
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Post by 28901 on May 9, 2023 18:14:55 GMT 1
Think you'll find then that Wagner wasn't manager. You know what I mean. His stupid replacement had exactly the same philosophy He only got the job to keep that 'continuity'
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Post by ACW on May 9, 2023 19:24:17 GMT 1
What excites me is the hope that we may sign some players who can pass and trap. I would suggest Championship standard defenders should be able to do this. Otherwise they should be playing further down the leagues. There are plenty defenders in the Championship that can't trap and pass that well. We showed this enough times this season as did Reading yesterday while playing against us. That is a poor reflection of the quality of the Championship then.
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 945
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Post by prepare on May 9, 2023 19:39:09 GMT 1
There are plenty defenders in the Championship that can't trap and pass that well. We showed this enough times this season as did Reading yesterday while playing against us. That is a poor reflection of the quality of the Championship then. it is goodness me
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Post by harrychrishner on May 9, 2023 21:05:47 GMT 1
The Blackpool result was obviously embarrassing but is there any truth in this thread headline or is it simply fake news?
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htafcokay
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,537
Member is Online
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Post by htafcokay on May 10, 2023 6:40:17 GMT 1
Thing is, when he came to Town, the impact was immediate. We looked like a completely different side within two weeks. Because of this, he got all the fans on board. And while we finished 19th it was a bit of a false position because we'd started to play some really good football and a lot of us were quite hopeful for the future. At Norwich he hasn't done that, he's made them worse (according to their fans). Also, he's seen as Stuart Webber's man and their fans hate Webber, so he's on a loser straight away. Also, it's years ago, and anyone suggesting we bring him back need to look at his recent record. Its awful. I'll never forget that Middlesbrough game, we absolutely played them off the park and did everything but score. The only time I've ever watched us lose but still walked back into town with a big grin on my face... But you do have to compare that to the utter snoozefest that was Powellball- if Big Sam had followed CP the football would have been seen as an improvement, as at least there'd be a bit of goalmouth action. Correct. It was unbelievable what he'd managed to do with Powell's team in such a short time. I stopped to applaud them off I was that impressed. Karanka said that Town looked like they were top of the table and Boro bottom.
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Post by football on May 10, 2023 7:18:55 GMT 1
...and Buxton and Jacko twice each. Although Buxton only one had one spell as manager He came back to help out Ian Ross, so not officially a manager.
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Post by Spike24 on May 10, 2023 8:03:55 GMT 1
Wagner got us the promised land playing possession football. Probably the best season in my lifetime. But he thought we could do it at the next level and we plainly couldn’t but continued to try and got found out badly. Anfield away, game over within a minute by insisting on it. There comes a time when you to be pragmatic about your approach. Schoffa and MF just couldn’t see it. Just blind faith in continuing the same thing. I love watching city and the likes. But chuff me, watching Reading do it and constantly getting caught is laughable. I wasn’t laughing watch us do it very very badly though. We didn't concede at Anfield until the 50th minute? It was the game versus Spurs at home I think, where we got our arsenal handed to us on a plate.
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Post by rockwall on May 10, 2023 8:08:46 GMT 1
Thing is, when he came to Town, the impact was immediate. We looked like a completely different side within two weeks. Because of this, he got all the fans on board. And while we finished 19th it was a bit of a false position because we'd started to play some really good football and a lot of us were quite hopeful for the future. At Norwich he hasn't done that, he's made them worse (according to their fans). Also, he's seen as Stuart Webber's man and their fans hate Webber, so he's on a loser straight away. Also, it's years ago, and anyone suggesting we bring him back need to look at his recent record. Its awful. I'll never forget that Middlesbrough game, we absolutely played them off the park and did everything but score. The only time I've ever watched us lose but still walked back into town with a big grin on my face... But you do have to compare that to the utter snoozefest that was Powellball- if Big Sam had followed CP the football would have been seen as an improvement, as at least there'd be a bit of goalmouth action. The whole CP bore festival is a myth. 4-2 V Blackpool 3-1 at Wolves 3-1 V Watford 3-1 v Scabs 2-2 at Ipswich 2-2 at Rotherham 3-1 V Millwall 3-0 V Reading Far from a bore festival and lack of goalmouth action. Problem with Powell was his actual commitment. Treat it as a part time job and didn't spend as much time as he should have done in his office or on the training ground. End of that season with 3 wins in the 15 and a shit start to the next cost him dearly. But overall, he wasn't as bad as people make out.
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prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 945
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Post by prepare on May 10, 2023 10:35:48 GMT 1
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Post by Der Blitzbomber on May 10, 2023 11:28:56 GMT 1
I'll never forget that Middlesbrough game, we absolutely played them off the park and did everything but score. The only time I've ever watched us lose but still walked back into town with a big grin on my face... But you do have to compare that to the utter snoozefest that was Powellball- if Big Sam had followed CP the football would have been seen as an improvement, as at least there'd be a bit of goalmouth action. The whole CP bore festival is a myth. 4-2 V Blackpool 3-1 at Wolves 3-1 V Watford 3-1 v Scabs 2-2 at Ipswich 2-2 at Rotherham 3-1 V Millwall 3-0 V Reading Far from a bore festival and lack of goalmouth action. Problem with Powell was his actual commitment. Treat it as a part time job and didn't spend as much time as he should have done in his office or on the training ground. End of that season with 3 wins in the 15 and a shit start to the next cost him dearly. But overall, he wasn't as bad as people make out. It was boring in the sense that as a fan, there was never any expectation that the team would progress. We were just treading water and the lack of commitment from the part-time manager who spent more time on the train than the training ground rubbed off on the players. A lot say Carlosball was boring, and the tippy-tappy stuff was a bit frustrating... but at least you could see that both manager and team were striving to actually achieve something.
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Post by teddytheterrier on May 10, 2023 12:17:38 GMT 1
Be surprised if he lasts 10 games next season.
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Post by bluesandtwos on May 10, 2023 13:28:04 GMT 1
There are plenty defenders in the Championship that can't trap and pass that well. We showed this enough times this season as did Reading yesterday while playing against us. That is a poor reflection of the quality of the Championship then. I think one issue is us trying to play one style through the whole club. Coaching youngsters to play from the back and choosing young players for the academy that can do that is great. However, you can’t bring in free transfers from lower divisions for the first team and expect them to do it. I don’t think our centre backs are particularly poor at playing out but they often have few options in front of them. Also, whichever team you are, a high pressing, combative side can shut you down. Monday we played out from the back when it was the right option and went long when it wasn’t, which was most of the time. Camara will drop deep to pick the ball up and is good enough to do it under pressure. We need our midfielders to be able to do this, which is partly coaching and partly recruitment.
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Post by softboy on May 10, 2023 13:51:29 GMT 1
Reading also played out from the back, got away with it twice (just) but 3rd time unlucky. Then still continue to do it which is probably why they are where they are now.
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Post by Convictatthemac on May 10, 2023 14:05:26 GMT 1
Reading also played out from the back, got away with it twice (just) but 3rd time unlucky. Then still continue to do it which is probably why they are where they are now. It’s not the playing out from the back that’s the problem, it’s the manager not teaching players how to move effectively to create the angles to play out from the back.
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