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Post by rougeboy31 on Jan 8, 2024 9:50:53 GMT 1
He’s getting far too much leeway from some people. Especially considering the standards set on other players.
Kasumu for example has had multiple injuries in the last year but has come back and made a good impact and puts a great shift in, wiles just loves pointing and jogging about .
People were still calling Burgzorg crap until last month despite his goal contributions and passion.
Sorba still gets called rubbish for some reason.
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Post by belizian on Jan 8, 2024 9:57:34 GMT 1
Or maybe he's doing a Pritchard - don't want to be here - the rest of the team are twats - I've signed a shitty contract - I'll show you all by not trying. Who knows?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2024 10:04:07 GMT 1
74th minute - given the ball in the centre circle and has an easy pass out to two players on his left - too slow holds it and is challenged - looses the ball (which results in a goal) but then he's on the floor and can hardly raise himself up - really struggles to his feet obviously completely knackered. This lad cannot play a competitive 90 minutes but he's been forced to try because of lack of competition. Hopefully now we can use him as a sub and perhaps get a good 20 or 30 minutes out of him. I don’t think the problem he had getting up was physical. He got robbed far too easily, went down looking for a foul, didn’t get one and his head just dropped. I honestly think his problem is more psychological than physical, although the injury he had is probably still affecting him. I am of the opinion, partly because I want him to be the player we thought we were buying, that given the right support he can get to the level he was at, and hopefully better. At the moment, due to our lack of squad depth, he is playing almost every game for the full game and I think his playing time needs managing more. Hopefully with some players back and new ones in we can do that. The injury may mean he doesn’t get back to his previous levels but I hope, as a club, us included, we can help him get back there. |
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Post by willo on Jan 8, 2024 10:06:09 GMT 1
I reckon we signed him whilst not quite fully fit (did he do a pre-season because he sure doesn’t look like he did?) and he’s playing catch-up - I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt here. He’s looked ok in glimpses but they’ve been too few and far between. We all know Town fans don’t like fully committed players and he doesn’t look like he has the nerve to go in hard in the tackle, maybe the previous injury messing with his head or still carrying a knock? Either way, he needs to improve (which I think he will over time) otherwise he’ll be out the team in favour of better players.
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Jan 8, 2024 10:07:01 GMT 1
He’s getting far too much leeway from some people. Especially considering the standards set on other players. Kasumu for example has had multiple injuries in the last year but has come back and made a good impact and puts a great shift in, wiles just loves pointing and jogging about . People were still calling Burgzorg crap until last month despite his goal contributions and passion. Sorba still gets called rubbish for some reason. Kasumu spent a very long time not looking that good. He's an example of how giving a player time to come good is not such a bad thing. |
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Post by detox on Jan 8, 2024 10:08:14 GMT 1
When you watch him, during games,you see a guy who is utterly frustrated..He's continually throwing his arms in the air and throws his head back when things go wrong for him. I don't know what's the matter with him but this has been going on all season. Is he carrying an injury, is he not fit,does he have an underlying medical problem...or is it in his head ? The coaches will see all this surely, will be talking to him, working with him but as yet there's no progress. Despite this there's no excuse when he simply 'gives up',which he often does when he shows his frustration, just standing there feeling sorry for himself instead of getting back and defending.. He's a liabilty at the moment and his frustration is obvious. If he needs an op, then we need to send him now rather than put him through all this..We have some cover now in midfield so I don't see the need to wait until summer. If it's just a mental thing, then loan him out somewhere so he's out of the spotlight for a while..
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Post by castlehillterrier on Jan 8, 2024 10:11:23 GMT 1
There is a very good player in Ben Wiles, I just dont think we have seen anywhere near enough from him yet. Injuries have not helped and I dont believe he is fully fit currently. I also think he wants to play in a 6 but cant get in the team there due to Hogg and I guess now Matos. A few weeks on the bench and coming on could help him out a little, I think we need to give him time as he could be a massive player for us in the future.
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Post by belizian on Jan 8, 2024 10:13:17 GMT 1
At least three times recently on Ifollow I've seen a player in front of him with the ball at his feet waiting for Wiles to move forward past him into what is obvious space down the wing. Instead he just stands there motionless almost. If I were a team mate and he did that consistently I'd have a quiet word in the dressing room afterwards. "Move your arse you lazy twat' being the least offensive.
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Post by belizian on Jan 8, 2024 10:56:05 GMT 1
After watching the extended highlights of the last three games and concentrating purely on Wiles I have to say that he's not that bad a player. A little anonymous sometimes, often doesn't receive the ball when in a decent position. He doesn't have the acceleration and energy that Sorba etc have which perhaps makes him look a bit lazy. Certainly doesn't seem to have fallen out with his team mates. Totally knackered at the end of each game or when he's subed. 6/10 and, as others have said, needs to get fitter.
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Post by runner76 on Jan 8, 2024 11:07:59 GMT 1
Clearly has talent and I find myself watching him thinking how bad he is playing, then he does something decent...! clearly not 100% but not sure what the missing percentages are!
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jan 8, 2024 13:11:06 GMT 1
He'll come good. Feel free to bookmark this.
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 8, 2024 13:19:29 GMT 1
He'll come good. Feel free to bookmark this. I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ |
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Post by shawsie on Jan 8, 2024 13:24:23 GMT 1
He’s getting far too much leeway from some people. Especially considering the standards set on other players. Kasumu for example has had multiple injuries in the last year but has come back and made a good impact and puts a great shift in, wiles just loves pointing and jogging about . People were still calling Burgzorg crap until last month despite his goal contributions and passion. Sorba still gets called rubbish for some reason. Kasumu spent a very long time not looking that good. He's an example of how giving a player time to come good is not such a bad thing. So did Rudoni imho and he has very definitely improved since NW coaxed more out of him. Not quite sure what Wiles role is in the current system to be honest - maybe he isnt either? |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jan 8, 2024 13:30:19 GMT 1
He'll come good. Feel free to bookmark this. I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ "we" might not. I do. He has all of the attributes. He's coming back from a big injury, and has had another injury this season. He's played for two managers this season, in various positions without a settled team around him, in various systems, in a team that has not been playing well. I am confident that, if played in a consistent (i.e. settled) side and system and at full fitness, he'll settle. We need to stop judging new signings as successes or failures so quickly. If we'd judged Sorba on half a season he'd have been written off before being one of the major contributors to our play off final season under Carlos. Similarly, we wrote him off last season, now look at him. Fuck, as a group of fans we wrote Phil Billing off as lazy and ineffective. Now look at him. Give. Him. Time. We need to stop scapegoating individuals so much. Yesterday we were lauding Spencer and Matos based on 45 minutes. They may prove to justify that long term, or not. But I also saw REG and Wiles getting singled out. REG was playing at CB (when this season he's barely played there) against an attack featuring Grealish, Foden and others. Ridiculous. Wiles was up against a world class midfield, and got panned for his performance. Ridiculous. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 8, 2024 14:11:24 GMT 1
Must admit, for all that I'm not a fan of REG (& wasn't even when it was fashionable to be one) I thought he put in a shift yesterday.
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 8, 2024 14:14:11 GMT 1
After watching the extended highlights of the last three games and concentrating purely on Wiles I have to say that he's not that bad a player. A little anonymous sometimes, often doesn't receive the ball when in a decent position. He doesn't have the acceleration and energy that Sorba etc have which perhaps makes him look a bit lazy. Certainly doesn't seem to have fallen out with his team mates. Totally knackered at the end of each game or when he's subed. 6/10 and, as others have said, needs to get fitter. This is part of the reason for my sympathy. If he was lazy, he wouldn't be exhausted. With Matos in, Hogg & Kasumu on their way back & hopefully another CM to come in - we can justify resting him a lot more than we have done. |
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 8, 2024 19:21:26 GMT 1
I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ "we" might not. I do. He has all of the attributes. He's coming back from a big injury, and has had another injury this season. He's played for two managers this season, in various positions without a settled team around him, in various systems, in a team that has not been playing well. I am confident that, if played in a consistent (i.e. settled) side and system and at full fitness, he'll settle. We need to stop judging new signings as successes or failures so quickly. If we'd judged Sorba on half a season he'd have been written off before being one of the major contributors to our play off final season under Carlos. Similarly, we wrote him off last season, now look at him. Fuck, as a group of fans we wrote Phil Billing off as lazy and ineffective. Now look at him. Give. Him. Time. We need to stop scapegoating individuals so much. Yesterday we were lauding Spencer and Matos based on 45 minutes. They may prove to justify that long term, or not. But I also saw REG and Wiles getting singled out. REG was playing at CB (when this season he's barely played there) against an attack featuring Grealish, Foden and others. Ridiculous. Wiles was up against a world class midfield, and got panned for his performance. Ridiculous. Wiles didn't get panned for his performance yesterday that I've seen (although I've only brushed over what people have written about that game given I watched it and saw us as a team performing as reasonably well as could be expected to me, and sort of knew there might be a few idiots asking why we played so deep and didn't try and take the game to them!) ?? What Wiles is being judged on is as a player with 180+ appearances in Championship and League 1 in his locker, and delivering nothing other than underwhelmingly ineffective performances in 20+ games with Town. Thats not the sign of a player who is going to magically transform and be a key as to why we remain a Championship club next season and beyond. I'm sure we all hope he comes good, but the evidence is that he won't. Now we have the loan signing, he's playing simply because Kasumu and Hogg couldn't, not through choice, and given Matos and Hogg won't be playing next season (I assume), that means we've got some big signings to make in summer (or this month). The same is true of REG, a player same age as Wiles but with nowhere near the 1st team experience under his belt, BUT, with sufficient to know that he's simply not good enough if we have aspirations to being a team that doesnt finish below 18th pretty much every season (REG had a perfectly decent game yesterday I thought - did his defensive job against World class opposition, whilst also demonstrating how poor a footballer he is technically, which resulted time and again him handing possession over)). PS - find it quite funny about the we & I thing...and then you wrote - "we wrote Phil Billing off as lazy and ineffective". I certainly didn't !! 🤷♂️😀 |
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Post by Terriersmad on Jan 8, 2024 19:29:29 GMT 1
Assuming Kasumu is fit, Wiles spends some time on the bench for me - and out of the squad if we have another option coming in.
He hasn't been fit. I think it's as simple as that. He needs some time on the sidelines to rest initially, get the treatment, and get back to 100%. His form hasn't been great, it's true, but I do think others play better with him in the team. His performances against Blackburn and Middlesbrough were very positive, and he has looked bright.
I also think he needs a goal to lift him. He's frustrated and trying things that aren't coming off. Once something comes off, it'll give him a lift and hopefully - combined with a break from playing for 3-4 weeks, if the opportunity exists - we'll see more from him. I think he'd have been out of the team some time ago if the option had existed, but with injuries elsewhere we have had no choice but to bring him back quickly from an injury lay-off. He clearly wants to play, which is better than certain people who have 'played' for us in the past.
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ldotm
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Post by ldotm on Jan 8, 2024 19:44:02 GMT 1
He'll come good. Feel free to bookmark this. I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ I bet people used to say that about a certain Aaron Mooy… He’s been a disappointment but for Burnley to be bidding 4 mil for him, means there is signs of a player there. Coming into a new team that’s struggling is never easy. No doubt he’s been very disappointing but I wouldn’t write him off just yet |
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Post by townarentbest on Jan 8, 2024 20:40:40 GMT 1
I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ I bet people used to say that about a certain Aaron Mooy… He’s been a disappointment but for Burnley to be bidding 4 mil for him, means there is signs of a player there. Coming into a new team that’s struggling is never easy. No doubt he’s been very disappointing but I wouldn’t write him off just yet After 180 games, Aaron Mooy had already proven his standard and was a regular in the Premier League...he didn't then miraculously step up a further level beyond that - that time around 200 professional appearances into his career was arguably his pinnacle. And yet we're expecting Wiles to improve? I don't see any reasonable explanation as to why, other than blind faith/hope - whereas all the evidence we see through watching him is of a player who is already finding it a struggle to simply maintain a level that isn't really good enough. (and of course, I hope he DOES massively improve whilst he's a Town player, as thats good for us). |
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ldotm
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Post by ldotm on Jan 8, 2024 21:09:37 GMT 1
I bet people used to say that about a certain Aaron Mooy… He’s been a disappointment but for Burnley to be bidding 4 mil for him, means there is signs of a player there. Coming into a new team that’s struggling is never easy. No doubt he’s been very disappointing but I wouldn’t write him off just yet After 180 games, Aaron Mooy had already proven his standard and was a regular in the Premier League...he didn't then miraculously step up a further level beyond that - that time around 200 professional appearances into his career was arguably his pinnacle. And yet we're expecting Wiles to improve? I don't see any reasonable explanation as to why, other than blind faith/hope - whereas all the evidence we see through watching him is of a player who is already finding it a struggle to simply maintain a level that isn't really good enough. (and of course, I hope he DOES massively improve whilst he's a Town player, as thats good for us). But you could also compare them at ages and at 24 Mooy had only 70 appearances for St Mirren and Western Sydney. So, you could say it’s more impressive Wiles has played well over double Mooy at the same age at a higher level. Now do I think Wiles will get to Mooy’s levels? Of course not. However, it’s very easy to write him off now, when he isn’t exactly past it and has already managed to rack up a lot of appearances at this level. Like I said, Burnley were in for him and pre-injury Rotherham fans said he was far too good for them. I think it’s fair to say maybe the injury has unfortunately had a big impact on the player he was/could become. But, I also think it’s fair to believe he could get back to his level if managed properly and gets his confidence back. |
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Post by shadwelljim on Jan 8, 2024 21:22:51 GMT 1
Time for me to weigh in with my observations.
I've listened to all the opinions and resisted commenting until now.
Imo he is playing in a team that is being asked to just defend consistently. I argue that he has a good football brain, but so far players can't read him n vice versa.
Once the team gets more pace up front and starts competing properly, you'll see the real Wiles. I'll hope we acquire a few more decent players and then you'll see him picking out players left , right n centre with regularity, and you'll think what a player!!
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 8, 2024 21:31:27 GMT 1
He'll come good. Feel free to bookmark this. I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ For me, that injury is probably a major factor. Physically, mentally or (probably!) both. The question is whether this is a temporary thing or "the new normal". Also worth noting that players form can rise and dip. He may have 180+ first team appearances but we're judging him on the 20ish since his injury. The fact Burnley were looking at putting together a £4M bid for him prior to his injury suggests that he hasn't always been this bad. That he was a very decent player not so long ago. I don't know whether he'll ever regain that form, or if he does whether that will be here or elsewhere. To be honest I'm not optimistic. Nonetheless, I'm not ruling him out just yet. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 8, 2024 22:20:37 GMT 1
I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ For me, that injury is probably a major factor. Physically, mentally or (probably!) both. The question is whether this is a temporary thing or "the new normal". Also worth noting that players form can rise and dip. He may have 180+ first team appearances but we're judging him on the 20ish since his injury. The fact Burnley were looking at putting together a £4M bid for him prior to his injury suggests that he hasn't always been this bad. That he was a very decent player not so long ago. I don't know whether he'll ever regain that form, or if he does whether that will be here or elsewhere. To be honest I'm not optimistic. Nonetheless, I'm not ruling him out just yet. I wonder if Town employ a Sports Psychologist, in case the injury has got to him mentally 🤔 |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 9, 2024 1:03:38 GMT 1
For me, that injury is probably a major factor. Physically, mentally or (probably!) both. The question is whether this is a temporary thing or "the new normal". Also worth noting that players form can rise and dip. He may have 180+ first team appearances but we're judging him on the 20ish since his injury. The fact Burnley were looking at putting together a £4M bid for him prior to his injury suggests that he hasn't always been this bad. That he was a very decent player not so long ago. I don't know whether he'll ever regain that form, or if he does whether that will be here or elsewhere. To be honest I'm not optimistic. Nonetheless, I'm not ruling him out just yet. I wonder if Town employ a Sports Psychologist, in case the injury has got to him mentally 🤔 I'm not aware of one, but if not then they should. |
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frankyb
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Post by frankyb on Jan 9, 2024 9:53:30 GMT 1
The biggest thing wiles could do is just up the effort, things may still not go his way, but you make your own luck and play yourself back into form. That process is quicker if you give it 100% and then try and exceed that.
I think he will be a good signing, but next season by the looks of things, looks like he has the world on his shoulders at the moment. Maybe some quality additions around him will take the pressure off and let him focus on himself a little.
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frankyb
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Post by frankyb on Jan 9, 2024 9:53:42 GMT 1
The biggest thing wiles could do is just up the effort, things may still not go his way, but you make your own luck and play yourself back into form. That process is quicker if you give it 100% and then try and exceed that.
I think he will be a good signing, but next season by the looks of things, looks like he has the world on his shoulders at the moment. Maybe some quality additions around him will take the pressure off and let him focus on himself a little.
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Post by portugalterrier on Jan 9, 2024 10:08:52 GMT 1
I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ "we" might not. I do. He has all of the attributes. He's coming back from a big injury, and has had another injury this season. He's played for two managers this season, in various positions without a settled team around him, in various systems, in a team that has not been playing well. I am confident that, if played in a consistent (i.e. settled) side and system and at full fitness, he'll settle. We need to stop judging new signings as successes or failures so quickly. If we'd judged Sorba on half a season he'd have been written off before being one of the major contributors to our play off final season under Carlos. Similarly, we wrote him off last season, now look at him. Fuck, as a group of fans we wrote Phil Billing off as lazy and ineffective. Now look at him. Give. Him. Time. We need to stop scapegoating individuals so much. Yesterday we were lauding Spencer and Matos based on 45 minutes. They may prove to justify that long term, or not. But I also saw REG and Wiles getting singled out. REG was playing at CB (when this season he's barely played there) against an attack featuring Grealish, Foden and others. Ridiculous. Wiles was up against a world class midfield, and got panned for his performance. Ridiculous. In my own opinion this is the best post I have seen from you, obviously we don’t agree on much , but this is reasoned and intelligent. |
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Post by richhtfc on Jan 9, 2024 10:26:05 GMT 1
I'm curious as to why we think he will come good? He's not a fresh behind the ears player breaking through. He's youngish, but he's played 180+ games, and has never played in a team that have finished higher than Town...even last season when we were diabolical. He's more likely at his level already - which is, if you have to regularly rely on a player like Wiles in a pretty key position, you're going to finish bottom 4 of the Championship 🤷♂️ "we" might not. I do. He has all of the attributes. He's coming back from a big injury, and has had another injury this season. He's played for two managers this season, in various positions without a settled team around him, in various systems, in a team that has not been playing well. I am confident that, if played in a consistent (i.e. settled) side and system and at full fitness, he'll settle. We need to stop judging new signings as successes or failures so quickly. If we'd judged Sorba on half a season he'd have been written off before being one of the major contributors to our play off final season under Carlos. Similarly, we wrote him off last season, now look at him. Fuck, as a group of fans we wrote Phil Billing off as lazy and ineffective. Now look at him. Give. Him. Time. We need to stop scapegoating individuals so much. Yesterday we were lauding Spencer and Matos based on 45 minutes. They may prove to justify that long term, or not. But I also saw REG and Wiles getting singled out. REG was playing at CB (when this season he's barely played there) against an attack featuring Grealish, Foden and others. Ridiculous. Wiles was up against a world class midfield, and got panned for his performance. Ridiculous. Definitely needs more time to come good, I seem to remember a fair bit of criticism for Rudoni initially as well. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on Jan 9, 2024 10:34:12 GMT 1
The biggest thing wiles could do is just up the effort, things may still not go his way, but you make your own luck and play yourself back into form. That process is quicker if you give it 100% and then try and exceed that. I think he will be a good signing, but next season by the looks of things, looks like he has the world on his shoulders at the moment. Maybe some quality additions around him will take the pressure off and let him focus on himself a little. Amazed at any suggestion of a lack of effort on his part, TBH |
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