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Post by dm on Jan 2, 2024 14:27:16 GMT 1
A lot of Derby fans thought that Rosenior was the brains behind their partnership at Derby. They're probably right. The brains behind the relegation or the L1 struggle? |
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Post by terriers2000 on Jan 2, 2024 14:43:13 GMT 1
Steve cooper apparently
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jan 2, 2024 14:52:20 GMT 1
A lot of Derby fans thought that Rosenior was the brains behind their partnership at Derby. They're probably right. The brains behind the relegation or the L1 struggle? The relegation - but bear in mind that they were deducted 21 points. With those, they would have finished comfortably mid-table. Either way, Rosenior has done much better than Rooney since |
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Post by specialun on Jan 2, 2024 15:00:01 GMT 1
13 weeks not sufficient enough to oversee the changes needed? Weren't they 7th when he took over?  I assume the changes were a more attractive playing style no fears football the board wanted without the players to play that way But I don’t think the fans have seen that and results have been garbage - Agree it was a daft decision to get rid & appointment given where they were vs squad available |
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araucaria
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by araucaria on Jan 2, 2024 15:00:56 GMT 1
Warcnock - Played = 24... Won = 9..... Draw = 6...... Loss = 9.... Win % = 37.50 On that basis NW would have around 36 points at the 26 game mark..but we have 25 points...21st instead of 12th.. Warnock had 9 defeats, did he? One would be the Carabao Cup, for which we wouldn't have got any points even if we'd won and 7 league defeats - 4 in 2022-23 and 3 this season, so where's the 9th? So using the correct statistics and no cup games, where would we be in the league? Forgive me if my own figures are wrong, my new year's resolution is to no longer look things up - if it isn't in my head it's not worth writing about it. |
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Post by turbo2 on Jan 2, 2024 15:16:09 GMT 1
A lot of Derby fans thought that Rosenior was the brains behind their partnership at Derby. They're probably right. Are they erm, sure that erm he was, erm, because erm, Wayne erm, comes across erm great. |
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Post by htafcokay on Jan 2, 2024 15:21:05 GMT 1
On that basis NW would have around 36 points at the 26 game mark..but we have 25 points...21st instead of 12th.. Warnock had 9 defeats, did he? One would be the Carabao Cup, for which we wouldn't have got any points even if we'd won and 7 league defeats - 4 in 2022-23 and 3 this season, so where's the 9th? So using the correct statistics and no cup games, where would we be in the league? Forgive me if my own figures are wrong, my new year's resolution is to no longer look things up - if it isn't in my head it's not worth writing about it. Warnock only lost seven league matches and one cup match. 2022-23: Burnley, Coventry, West Brom and Swansea. 2023-24: Plymouth, Leicester, Norwich and Middlesbrough (cup). |
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Post by dezzly on Jan 2, 2024 15:38:24 GMT 1
Cold hard facts of Moores tenure. Played - 19... Won = 3.... Drawn = 8.... Lost = 8 Total Points = 17... Win % - 15.79 Mark Fotheringham. Played = 21...... Won = 5.... Drawn = 6... Lost = 10.... Total points 21.... Win % 23.81 Lets be honest, we arent going to beat citeh, so his plymouth game his 21st game even if he gets a win, hes still 1 point worse off than Fotheringham who many deem as the worst manager of a generation, who was also sacked 6 games too late.... How long are the board going to leave it? Lose to Plymouth and it will be curtains and massive games afterwards that will basically seal our fate changing a manager mid jan would be ridicuous, but leaving it until feb would be sleepwalking into relegation. If the board are thinking hes one game away from the sack then they should act now and not dilly dally. True but what are also cold hard facts are that Birmingham signed in the summer Tyler roberts Jay stansfield Keshi Anderson Dion Sanderson Kristi am bielek Ethan laird Lee Buchanan Koji myoshi Cody drameh Siriki dembele Oliver Burke plus some others.That’s 11 players just there and I’d suggest pretty much all of them would start or be one of the first names off the bench for us.Meanwhile we signed Maxwell,wiles,burgzorg,edwards. I’m still not sold either way really on Moore but when you take those transfers into account you shouldn’t be able to get near comparing Rooney’s record with moores. |
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Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jan 2, 2024 15:41:29 GMT 1
I'd take Colleen Rooney at this point. So would I, but I think we're referring to potential managers. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 2, 2024 16:24:45 GMT 1
Moore took over a struggling side? Yes we were near the bottom but we were playing better than now. I was confident of us staying up under Warnock but have no confidence of us staying up now. I accept that we have a very weak squad regardless of the manager. I'm still trying to fathom out why Nagle bought the club. It's like buying a house and then leaving it empty to detiorate. Warnock had us in the relegation spots over a few games this season, Moore hasn't Is that because it was at the very start of the season and no one had many points. The reason Moore hasn't had us in the bottom 3 is the points Colin had already got. |
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Post by htafcokay on Jan 2, 2024 16:25:36 GMT 1
Warnock had us in the relegation spots over a few games this season, Moore hasn't Is that because it was at the very start of the season and no one had many points. The reason Moore hasn't had us in the bottom 3 is the points Colin had already got. Warnock had us as high as 16th. We've been 21st now since October under Moore. Progress, eh? |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jan 2, 2024 16:46:42 GMT 1
Is that because it was at the very start of the season and no one had many points. The reason Moore hasn't had us in the bottom 3 is the points Colin had already got. Warnock had us as high as 16th. We've been 21st now since October under Moore. Progress, eh? But... For all of the undoubtedly warranted praise and the blowing of smoke up Warnock's arse, let's not forget that he's the one who has saddled us with the perma-injured Ward and Ruffles ("the best LB in the Championship") for God knows however long, and also a woefully out of form Koroma who probably cries himself to sleep because he misses Warnock. That's three wages that we could have better spent elsewhere. |
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Post by htafcokay on Jan 2, 2024 16:51:46 GMT 1
Warnock had us as high as 16th. We've been 21st now since October under Moore. Progress, eh? But... For all of the undoubtedly warranted praise and the blowing of smoke up Warnock's arse, let's not forget that he's the one who has saddled us with the perma-injured Ward and Ruffles ("the best LB in the Championship") for God knows however long, and also a woefully out of form Koroma who probably cries himself to sleep because he misses Warnock. That's three wages that we could have better spent elsewhere. I don't remember many complaints at the time though. |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Jan 2, 2024 16:57:54 GMT 1
But... For all of the undoubtedly warranted praise and the blowing of smoke up Warnock's arse, let's not forget that he's the one who has saddled us with the perma-injured Ward and Ruffles ("the best LB in the Championship") for God knows however long, and also a woefully out of form Koroma who probably cries himself to sleep because he misses Warnock. That's three wages that we could have better spent elsewhere. I don't remember many complaints at the time though. I didn't post, but I was one tiny voice in the dark. Koroma not so much, but I would have happily driven Ward to Bolton when his contract was up, and I would have shed no tears at Ruffles' departure. |
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Post by htafcokay on Jan 2, 2024 16:59:19 GMT 1
I don't remember many complaints at the time though. I didn't post, but I was one tiny voice in the dark. Koroma not so much, but I would have happily driven Ward to Bolton when his contract was up, and I would have shed no tears at Ruffles' departure. Me too. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 2, 2024 17:13:25 GMT 1
Was glad to see Koroma come back. Still am...hes a form player..at the moment hes off form but hell be on form soon enough and we'll be very glad we have him then.
Not bothered about Ward either way as I never thought he'd be our No 1 striker this season, and never rated Ruffels...whos agent is Warnock's son apparently.
Worse was letting Holmes leave at all and letting Rhodes leave when we hadnt got a replacement for him.
Warnock had one outstanding result this season at WBA..the rest were pretty predictable in terms of who we lost to, drew with and beat...and not different really to what id expect Moores side to do.
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Post by mosher on Jan 2, 2024 17:16:38 GMT 1
But... For all of the undoubtedly warranted praise and the blowing of smoke up Warnock's arse, let's not forget that he's the one who has saddled us with the perma-injured Ward and Ruffles ("the best LB in the Championship") for God knows however long, and also a woefully out of form Koroma who probably cries himself to sleep because he misses Warnock. That's three wages that we could have better spent elsewhere. I don't remember many complaints at the time though. I didn't post on here, but when I heard we'd given them both new contracts (especially Ward) I couldn't quite believe it. If it HAS been all about Sir Colin's nefarious(ish) business practices regarding his son's agency then I wish KN would say so. All the speculation and whataboutery does nobody any favours, either us the fans, the club, Nagel himself or especially DM who has been anchored with the "right man, HAD to proceed now" tag. |
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Post by royrace on Jan 2, 2024 17:39:42 GMT 1
I don't remember many complaints at the time though. I didn't post on here, but when I heard we'd given them both new contracts (especially Ward) I couldn't quite believe it. If it HAS been all about Sir Colin's nefarious(ish) business practices regarding his son's agency then I wish KN would say so. All the speculation and whataboutery does nobody any favours, either us the fans, the club, Nagel himself or especially DM who has been anchored with the "right man, HAD to proceed now" tag. Not a fan of either ward or ruffles for different reasons and koroma was a risk due to his varying form but all three made sense with Warnock here for a season. Without Warnock I'd have let ruffles and ward go and possibly offered Koroma a year. All three would have been better on a shorter contract but you can see why that wouldn't have been acceptable to the players. Bottom line is those signings don't make much sense if you sack Warnock early in the season. With the budget as it was though who would we have signed in their place? |
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Post by Stiggy on Jan 2, 2024 18:28:14 GMT 1
Sacked and his record was better than Moores so what are we doing allowing him more time. He should’ve been gone weeks ago in my opinion.
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araucaria
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,801
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Post by araucaria on Jan 2, 2024 18:36:39 GMT 1
Warnock had 9 defeats, did he? One would be the Carabao Cup, for which we wouldn't have got any points even if we'd won and 7 league defeats - 4 in 2022-23 and 3 this season, so where's the 9th? So using the correct statistics and no cup games, where would we be in the league? Forgive me if my own figures are wrong, my new year's resolution is to no longer look things up - if it isn't in my head it's not worth writing about it. Warnock only lost seven league matches and one cup match. 2022-23: Burnley, Coventry, West Brom and Swansea. 2023-24: Plymouth, Leicester, Norwich and Middlesbrough (cup). Thanks for this confirmation. 33 points from 22 games equates to 39 from 26 and joint 7th with Hull. I don't think that Warnock would have got us quite so high in the table, but given the many instances in his career of improving teams in his second season - an example would be here in 1994-95 and much more recently at Cardiff - you wouldn't have bet against it. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 2, 2024 18:48:59 GMT 1
Sacked and his record was better than Moores so what are we doing allowing him more time. He should’ve been gone weeks ago in my opinion. No it wasnt. Rooney 0.66 points per game Moore 0.89 points per game. |
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Post by Amigo on Jan 2, 2024 19:01:51 GMT 1
Warnock only lost seven league matches and one cup match. 2022-23: Burnley, Coventry, West Brom and Swansea. 2023-24: Plymouth, Leicester, Norwich and Middlesbrough (cup). Thanks for this confirmation. 33 points from 22 games equates to 39 from 26 and joint 7th with Hull. I don't think that Warnock would have got us quite so high in the table, but given the many instances in his career of improving teams in his second season - an example would be here in 1994-95 and much more recently at Cardiff - you wouldn't have bet against it. For comparison of having the same squad this season, Warnock had 8 points from 7 games, that would have us on 29 points now, continuing the goal difference He had as well and factoring that over 26 games we'd be one place higher in 20th. Impossible to know how much better Warnock would have coped with the injuries we've had since he left as well. |
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araucaria
Frank Worthington Terrier
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Post by araucaria on Jan 2, 2024 19:14:53 GMT 1
Thanks for this confirmation. 33 points from 22 games equates to 39 from 26 and joint 7th with Hull. I don't think that Warnock would have got us quite so high in the table, but given the many instances in his career of improving teams in his second season - an example would be here in 1994-95 and much more recently at Cardiff - you wouldn't have bet against it. For comparison of having the same squad this season, Warnock had 8 points from 7 games, that would have us on 29 points now, continuing the goal difference He had as well and factoring that over 26 games we'd be one place higher in 20th. Impossible to know how much better Warnock would have coped with the injuries we've had since he left as well. Agree entirely, but, over the whole season, 8 from every 7 sees us safe in all bar two daft years when teams went down with 54 points. When we lost 4-0 at home to Norwich, my mate and I remained relaxed about our prospects with Warnock in charge and he was confirming our view when he was so rudely interrupted. We knew that we would generally be a match for most teams on a consistent basis and that there was no-one better to manage us. Now that we've played well for two home games in succession, I really hope that DM can keep it going against Plymouth and thereafter. But with Darren it's hope; with Neil it was expectation. |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Jan 2, 2024 19:39:34 GMT 1
Thanks for this confirmation. 33 points from 22 games equates to 39 from 26 and joint 7th with Hull. I don't think that Warnock would have got us quite so high in the table, but given the many instances in his career of improving teams in his second season - an example would be here in 1994-95 and much more recently at Cardiff - you wouldn't have bet against it. For comparison of having the same squad this season, Warnock had 8 points from 7 games, that would have us on 29 points now, continuing the goal difference He had as well and factoring that over 26 games we'd be one place higher in 20th. Impossible to know how much better Warnock would have coped with the injuries we've had since he left as well.Maybe there was a reason for the down-time Warnock allowed the players. It seems like the higher-ups didn't like it, but maybe not flogging them every day in training would have helped avoid some injuries. Who knows. |
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spudson
George Donis Terrier
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Post by spudson on Jan 2, 2024 19:48:26 GMT 1
Have a good friend who supports Birmingham.
We both reckon there are many similarities between them and us.
Both bought by supposedly wealthy owners recently , and with an American sports history behind them too.
Both had good managers and got rid of them .
Both signed worse ones.
Here the similarity ends , as Birmingham appear to have real ambition, and got another manager in when it wasn’t working out.
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Post by Amigo on Jan 2, 2024 20:37:32 GMT 1
Have a good friend who supports Birmingham. We both reckon there are many similarities between them and us. Both bought by supposedly wealthy owners recently , and with an American sports history behind them too. Both had good managers and got rid of them . Both signed worse ones. Here the similarity ends , as Birmingham appear to have real ambition, and got another manager in when it wasn’t working out. Did your "good friend" not mention all the players they signed in the summer (as mentioned earlier I'd imagine all of which would at least be on our bench). Or that they were 6th in the league when they sacked their manager? Or that they had a manager at the time that wasn't expecting to leave 2 or 3 months later anyway? Is your "good friend" a mirror? |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 2, 2024 21:00:21 GMT 1
For comparison of having the same squad this season, Warnock had 8 points from 7 games, that would have us on 29 points now, continuing the goal difference He had as well and factoring that over 26 games we'd be one place higher in 20th. Impossible to know how much better Warnock would have coped with the injuries we've had since he left as well.Maybe there was a reason for the down-time Warnock allowed the players. It seems like the higher-ups didn't like it, but maybe not flogging them every day in training would have helped avoid some injuries. Who knows. Just maybe, the most experienced Championship manager knew more than the "higher-ups" 😉 |
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spudson
George Donis Terrier
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Post by spudson on Jan 2, 2024 21:39:07 GMT 1
Exactly. was going to put the other similarity of the league position declines following the manager changes:- yeah Birmingham were 8th (now20th)when we got rid of Warnock I believe , and we were 16th (now 21st) . So Both had a downturn in positional standing since manager change . And yes, spent Birmingham spent almost 6m PRIOR to this season. As I said, they show some ambition. I hope we will follow suit And No My mates way better looking than me . Cannot be a mirror. :-) Have a good friend who supports Birmingham. We both reckon there are many similarities between them and us. Both bought by supposedly wealthy owners recently , and with an American sports history behind them too. Both had good managers and got rid of them . Both signed worse ones. Here the similarity ends , as Birmingham appear to have real ambition, and got another manager in when it wasn’t working out. Did your "good friend" not mention all the players they signed in the summer (as mentioned earlier I'd imagine all of which would at least be on our bench). Or that they were 6th in the league when they sacked their manager? Or that they had a manager at the time that wasn't expecting to leave 2 or 3 months later anyway? Is your "good friend" a mirror? |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jan 2, 2024 21:59:14 GMT 1
They’ll pull clear. Gobsmacked with 3 wins in 19 Moore hasn’t gone before him. Their American owners don't accept mediocrity. Apparently we still do, big month ahead for DM. Totally ďifferent scenario. BRUM gone from 5th to 20th our form has stayed the same as it was under Warnock, 1pt despite having less players available and no strikers. |
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Post by Porrohman on Jan 2, 2024 22:01:38 GMT 1
Their American owners don't accept mediocrity. Apparently we still do, big month ahead for DM. Totally ďifferent scenario. BRUM gone from 5th to 20th our form has stayed the same as it was under Warnock, 1pt despite having less players available and no strikers. Do you honestly believe we'd have only picked up the same points under Colin as we have under Big Dave ? |
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