Morning Norwood
Tom Cowan Terrier
Always look on the bright side of life
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Post by Morning Norwood on Apr 28, 2024 14:05:55 GMT 1
Also add to that West Brom pulled his pants down 4-0 in second half, Preston pulled his pants down 4-0 in second half, Swansea pulled his pants down 4-0 in second half. Warnock and bloody Darren Moore got more out of same players. He won’t need sacking, he should walk with his dismal record Darren Moore is the reason Andre was firefighting the last few games. But fuck it, let’s sack him and hire someone else with less pedigree. What happens if they start slow, sack them too? Same again after that? That is NEVER going to bring success. Show some patience. I no saw no firefighting. I saw us roll over and have our bellies tickled. Would you be asking for same patience for Moore? Both managers couldn’t get a tune out of the same players Warnock could, but he couldn’t keep his gob shut. AB will have a relegation clause. No need to sack him, he’ll walk off a hero to some on here |
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Post by harris on Apr 28, 2024 14:10:47 GMT 1
Darren Moore is the reason Andre was firefighting the last few games. But fuck it, let’s sack him and hire someone else with less pedigree. What happens if they start slow, sack them too? Same again after that? That is NEVER going to bring success. Show some patience. I no saw no firefighting. I saw us roll over and have our bellies tickled. Would you be asking for same patience for Moore? Both managers couldn’t get a tune out of the same players Warnock could, but he couldn’t keep his gob shut. AB will have a relegation clause. No need to sack him, he’ll walk off a hero to some on here Give over with the hero nonsense, you’re over exaggerating. A lot of us can see that he isn’t the problem and with the right players at his disposal, he will bring success. He’s done it in much tougher leagues before so he can do it in league one. He also now knows who to get rid of and who to keep. As I said and as you ignored, some huge moments have gone against us in the last 5 or so games that Sunday league players and Sunday league referees don’t get wrong. How can, as a coach, you legislate for stuff like that? |
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wildhogg
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by wildhogg on Apr 28, 2024 14:15:41 GMT 1
Darren Moore is the reason Andre was firefighting the last few games. But fuck it, let’s sack him and hire someone else with less pedigree. What happens if they start slow, sack them too? Same again after that? That is NEVER going to bring success. Show some patience. I no saw no firefighting. I saw us roll over and have our bellies tickled. Would you be asking for same patience for Moore? Both managers couldn’t get a tune out of the same players Warnock could, but he couldn’t keep his gob shut. AB will have a relegation clause. No need to sack him, he’ll walk off a hero to some on here I don't think he'll be a hero to anyone. However, it's seems a bit unreasonable to judge a manager who has a decent track record (at a good level) against 12 games of a relegation fight with the second worst squad of footballers in the league. Incidentally, he wasn't responsible for building that squad. I don't think he's the man for the job in League 1. However, if we'd stayed up (and giving the promotions he has under his belt) then I would have been really optimistic about him turning us round with his own team next season. |
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Morning Norwood
Tom Cowan Terrier
Always look on the bright side of life
Posts: 750
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Post by Morning Norwood on Apr 28, 2024 14:24:12 GMT 1
I no saw no firefighting. I saw us roll over and have our bellies tickled. Would you be asking for same patience for Moore? Both managers couldn’t get a tune out of the same players Warnock could, but he couldn’t keep his gob shut. AB will have a relegation clause. No need to sack him, he’ll walk off a hero to some on here Give over with the hero nonsense, you’re over exaggerating. A lot of us can see that he isn’t the problem and with the right players at his disposal, he will bring success. He’s done it in much tougher leagues before so he can do it in league one. He also now knows who to get rid of and who to keep. As I said and as you ignored, some huge moments have gone against us in the last 5 or so games that Sunday league players and Sunday league referees don’t get wrong. How can, as a coach, you legislate for stuff like that? Every team in the league can list similar big moments, so it’s not just us. You can’t legislate for them, but other teams have a list too. Every team has injuries etc, but not every team lacks fight. We rolled over under him |
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Post by jqhtfc on Apr 28, 2024 14:25:19 GMT 1
Give over with the hero nonsense, you’re over exaggerating. A lot of us can see that he isn’t the problem and with the right players at his disposal, he will bring success. He’s done it in much tougher leagues before so he can do it in league one. He also now knows who to get rid of and who to keep. As I said and as you ignored, some huge moments have gone against us in the last 5 or so games that Sunday league players and Sunday league referees don’t get wrong. How can, as a coach, you legislate for stuff like that? Every team in the league can list similar big moments, so it’s not just us. You can’t legislate for them, but other teams have a list too. Every team has injuries etc, but not every team lacks fight. We rolled over under him We’ve rolled over under every manager we’ve had this season to be fair |
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Post by harris on Apr 28, 2024 14:26:03 GMT 1
Give over with the hero nonsense, you’re over exaggerating. A lot of us can see that he isn’t the problem and with the right players at his disposal, he will bring success. He’s done it in much tougher leagues before so he can do it in league one. He also now knows who to get rid of and who to keep. As I said and as you ignored, some huge moments have gone against us in the last 5 or so games that Sunday league players and Sunday league referees don’t get wrong. How can, as a coach, you legislate for stuff like that? Every team in the league can list similar big moments, so it’s not just us. You can’t legislate for them, but other teams have a list too. Every team has injuries etc, but not every team lacks fight. We rolled over under him Whatever. You may get your wish, when we end up with a league one merry go round manager you’ll definitely have your wish 👍 |
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Morning Norwood
Tom Cowan Terrier
Always look on the bright side of life
Posts: 750
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Post by Morning Norwood on Apr 28, 2024 14:49:10 GMT 1
Every team in the league can list similar big moments, so it’s not just us. You can’t legislate for them, but other teams have a list too. Every team has injuries etc, but not every team lacks fight. We rolled over under him Whatever. You may get your wish, when we end up with a league one merry go round manager you’ll definitely have your wish 👍 If you think my wishes are a team that puts up a fight whilst ensuring going to the football is fun, please pray my wishes come true. Whoever that is in charge |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 28, 2024 14:56:07 GMT 1
I hope AB stays. However, the situation within the club reminds me of when hired Wagner’s replacement and he was hamstrung with poor discipline and players desperate to leave. Sometimes, circumstances govern the best option. Is AB a big enough bastard to really stamp authority on the reprobates on our wage bill? Might just be my interpretation but I'd suggest his interview after yesterday's game suggests he is, and removing their hiding place was the first (and most important) step. He's had no option but to work with what he had. If he's still here next season he'll have had a summer to ship some out & bring some in. And even if some of the knobheads are still here in September, seeing that there's no hiding place might actually give them the kick up the arse they need to stop being knobheads and fall into line. |
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Apr 28, 2024 14:56:39 GMT 1
If AB walks, Nigel Clough
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 28, 2024 14:57:35 GMT 1
Says a lot about our club, that this sort of thread has been quite commonplace on here in recent seasons… Doesn’t necessarily mean this is the problem, just that we’ve been a club in transition for far longer than any normal transition period should last. Get rid of AB and the circus will continue… Don't you mean Orcus? |
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Post by bells ringing :) on Apr 28, 2024 14:59:43 GMT 1
If AB walks, Nigel Clough i would rather have challinor to be fair, he seems to be on the up in his career. |
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Post by fredcarno1 on Apr 28, 2024 15:03:25 GMT 1
We’ll end up debating a new manager for a few weeks, getting another one in and expecting a different result to the last few. This bunch of players have played well for a sum total of 5 weeks in 2 seasons. If people are expecting a new manager to make a good fist of a League 1 promotion campaign with players like Ward, Ruffles, Headley, Jackson, Koroma, Simpson, Hudlin, Kasumu fair play.
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Wingman
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Post by Wingman on Apr 28, 2024 15:09:13 GMT 1
If ab does not stay or want to for that matter. We could do far worse, than to go after challinor at stockport. I know they are the champs of league 2, so why move ? i understand that, but if nagle put a project to him and a budget etc and showed real ambition i think he would be temtped. Did well at Hartlepool (I think) and obviously is going well at Stockport. If they begin well I can see him being poached by a bigger club. Plus, he could double up as a long throw coach! |
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Post by FloridaTerrier on Apr 28, 2024 15:33:01 GMT 1
I have my doubts that AB can control the dressing room. Allowing players to slope off after the game then complaining about....get a grip.! He seems a bit aloof,and not very dynamic, can't connect with the players...The very players he had zero involvement bringing in... German culture is much different to English football. Culturally Germans are really professional, humble, with a foundation of hard work, discipline, and team play. We only have to look at the Wagner era when he brought in the Germans and what it did for us. |
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sheps
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by sheps on Apr 28, 2024 15:51:00 GMT 1
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Apr 28, 2024 16:00:59 GMT 1
Grant McCann after what he's done at Doncaster.
But we need a rebuild, in all aspects of the football side of things. We need a strong director of football with a solid vision that aligns with the manager.
The manager needs to have an idea about how it all works and what's needed. I would go with Houghton any day of the week. He's exactly what we need.
Whoever it is, whether it is AB or someone else. We have to commit to rebuilding in their way.
Half the issues are with players who don't play to the style of the manager, when a new one comes in then we are stuck. We then buy a player or two in a different style and then we end up with a Mish mash of styles which no one can create a team from
We need our identity right through and the manager is key to that.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Apr 28, 2024 16:06:54 GMT 1
We need a reboot from top to bottom.
First appointments should be a new senior management team that can build a club from the ground up.
Secondly they choose a manager who can build a team from the ground up.
KN has to take a brave stance and realise that just tinkering will not get us moving in the right direction.
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Post by bblueterrier on Apr 28, 2024 16:15:18 GMT 1
This season has been an absolute disaster. A perfect shitstorm but eventually poor decision after poor decision gets you what you deserve which is L1. FWIW Kevin genuinely has the best interests of the club & fans at heart, but the team of Edwards & Cartwright both of whom have outdated knowledge of the English game having spent the last 10 years or thereabouts at a level of National league or below both have massively let KN down.
AB has had a lot of issues to deal with as he outlined yesterday but to be honest I"ve been massively disappointed in his reign. Clearly he's a good coach however this set of players simply cannot execute any sort of advanced game plan. As Warnock proved the only way to set this team up is on the edge of their own 18 yard box & play for the odd counter/set piece. I can't see AB remaining here next season it's just not worked out for both parties.
In terms of next season promotion has to be the only aim - statistically the first season gives you the best opportunity for an immediate return & we must capitalise in what is a poor league. I"d look to build a team similar to Derby full of players that could play in the Championship & tbh would get into our starting XI.
Keep the faith better days will come.
UTT
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Post by bleaklow on Apr 28, 2024 16:40:43 GMT 1
Duff should have been appointed instead of AB. But the first person to be shown the door is Cartwright - Stoke fans warned us about
him. The 23 matches which DM was in charge is the reason we're scuppered. But the buck stops with Kevin - he appointed Cartwright.
Look how Sheffield Wednesday and QPR have been improved whilst we have gone backwards - they prove that choosing the right man isn't
so difficult.
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aca00js
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0]
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Post by aca00js on Apr 28, 2024 16:43:13 GMT 1
This season has been an absolute disaster. A perfect shitstorm but eventually poor decision after poor decision gets you what you deserve which is L1. FWIW Kevin genuinely has the best interests of the club & fans at heart, but the team of Edwards & Cartwright both of whom have outdated knowledge of the English game having spent the last 10 years or thereabouts at a level of National league or below both have massively let KN down. AB has had a lot of issues to deal with as he outlined yesterday but to be honest I"ve been massively disappointed in his reign. Clearly he's a good coach however this set of players simply cannot execute any sort of advanced game plan. As Warnock proved the only way to set this team up is on the edge of their own 18 yard box & play for the odd counter/set piece. I can't see AB remaining here next season it's just not worked out for both parties. In terms of next season promotion has to be the only aim - statistically the first season gives you the best opportunity for an immediate return & we must capitalise in what is a poor league. I"d look to build a team similar to Derby full of players that could play in the Championship & tbh would get into our starting XI. Keep the faith better days will come. UTT Hopefully they will be but I don't see until we have others running the club day to day. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 28, 2024 17:03:23 GMT 1
I have my doubts that AB can control the dressing room. Allowing players to slope off after the game then complaining about....get a grip.! He seems a bit aloof,and not very dynamic, can't connect with the players...The very players he had zero involvement bringing in... German culture is much different to English football. Culturally Germans are really professional, humble, with a foundation of hard work, discipline, and team play. We only have to look at the Wagner era when he brought in the Germans and what it did for us. If the manager can't get a tune out of players who are tossing it off, is that a problem of the manager or the players? Bottom line is it would be best all round if most of these players moved on. Better for us, better for them. They're demotivated & need a change of scenery. If we're going to be successful than we need a clear-out of players. If we're ditching these players then the question is who do we want to manage their replacements? Look at AB's strengths and weaknesses. One weakness that we were told about was that he wasn't very good at getting results out of prima donnas who didn't buy in to the project. He ain't great at handling big egos and getting the best out of players with a shit work ethic. Well, we've seen that. He isn't. So, do we want players with a good work ethic, with a manager who can get the best out of them? Or someone who can stroke the egos of a dressing room full of talented knobheads well enough to get them to buckle down? Whether we keep AB or not though, whoever starts next season in charge here there needs to be a coherent strategy in place. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 28, 2024 17:10:47 GMT 1
Duff should have been appointed instead of AB. But the first person to be shown the door is Cartwright - Stoke fans warned us about him. The 23 matches which DM was in charge is the reason we're scuppered. But the buck stops with Kevin - he appointed Cartwright. Look how Sheffield Wednesday and QPR have been improved whilst we have gone backwards - they prove that choosing the right man isn't so difficult. That's quite the take. I must admit I wasn't one of those firing venom at the club on the back of the rumours in the press about the possibility of him joining - but plenty were. The atmosphere would have been toxic and we'd have been down under him too. I'd also add that choosing the right man IS difficult. You can point to Roehl and Cifuentes but what is it about them that stood out as being obvious successes before they joined? Clearly, Roehl has been a success, but our appointment of Siewert wasn't. Kieran McKenna was a success, Joe Edwards wasn't. Hughton was a great success at Newcastle and Brighton, dreadful at Forest. Brendan Rogers was absolute dogshit at Reading. If choosing the right guy was easy, everyone would do it. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 28, 2024 17:13:10 GMT 1
Duff should have been appointed instead of AB. But the first person to be shown the door is Cartwright - Stoke fans warned us about him. The 23 matches which DM was in charge is the reason we're scuppered. But the buck stops with Kevin - he appointed Cartwright. Look how Sheffield Wednesday and QPR have been improved whilst we have gone backwards - they prove that choosing the right man isn't so difficult. When Duff's name was mentioned, everyone was going absolutely berserk? |
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Post by philstarbuckscoffee on Apr 28, 2024 17:17:59 GMT 1
For me, the only real chance of bouncing back up first season is by sticking with AB. Any new manager will want to give the squad a chance and make their own mind up on who stays and who is going.
The last appointment wasn’t exactly quick and I reckon any scouting dept we have would have been looking at players for the Championship and not League one. Therefore to change manager, let him see enough of the squad, let players leave and replace will just be too much this summer to hit the ground running in Sept.
Our best bet is to hope that AB is as good as his track record suggests. Bomb out and let the bad eggs go then recruit to his style early to get a solid pre season in and be the fittest team in League one. We can then press and bully teams to death and hit the ground running.
This club needs some stability. I think AB will be longing to get out of the shitshow here but the risk is we persuade him to stay and he ends up being Darren Moore MK2.
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Apr 28, 2024 17:26:49 GMT 1
Duff should have been appointed instead of AB. But the first person to be shown the door is Cartwright - Stoke fans warned us about him. The 23 matches which DM was in charge is the reason we're scuppered. But the buck stops with Kevin - he appointed Cartwright. Look how Sheffield Wednesday and QPR have been improved whilst we have gone backwards - they prove that choosing the right man isn't so difficult. When Duff's name was mentioned, everyone was going absolutely berserk? Not everyone. |
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 28, 2024 17:27:14 GMT 1
When Duff's name was mentioned, everyone was going absolutely berserk? Not everyone. Well there's at least three of us. |
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Post by onesteviekindon on Apr 28, 2024 17:38:10 GMT 1
How about the only man we can realistically afford?
Jon Worthington.
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Post by htafcokay on Apr 28, 2024 17:42:34 GMT 1
How about the only man we can realistically afford? Jon Worthington. The same man that doesn't want the job and has already turned down the job? |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Apr 28, 2024 17:43:18 GMT 1
My hope is that within a few days (a week at the absolute most) of the season finishing, we'll have an answer to the question of whether Breitenreiter will take charge for the start of next season. If yes, great. It will be - to coin a phrase from Justasmithers - "time to go to work" in putting everything in place to give him as good a chance as possible of achieving success here. If AB decides to leave, then I'd ask why. Did we do enough to try & convince him that he could be successful here? If the decision to dispense with his services comes from us, I'd ask why there too. Why do we not feel he could do better with a summer to recruit players he wants, and a preseason to get those ideas across? And if we are to have a change, for the love of god, decide on a strategy and recruit on that basis. Do it early. Give the new guy time to get his feet under the table and have a proper preseason. Get the new players in early if you can, and give them as much of the new guy's preseason as possible. |
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Post by dugnet on Apr 28, 2024 17:52:09 GMT 1
Since Carlos "walked" we really haven't had a strategy, identity and matching recruitment plan.
I am not sure any of our appointees have really had much chance to really shape our fortunes. Would Duff, or anyone, done much better?
The mistake was not building on what Carlos started. Since then it has been a lot of reactive ill thought through actions.
I know players get rewarded handsomely but I don't think we have created an environment for any to succeed. You only need look at our ball retention stats, they are appalling. If you're defending and the ball keeps coming back at you it must impact your attitude. Equally if you aren't getting enough possession to create and score goals there must be a frustration?
I don't make the point to excuse players but to show that we really haven't got our ducks in a row.
I am not sure if AB is the right man but if not whoever it is needs supporting. There also needs to be a structure and an overall direction of travel. What is required in League One is different to the Championship. However what we need is something that can transition and develop, assuming we are successful.
If AB isn't staying there might be an argument for inviting applications. It could be that there is someone out there who believes we are a good opportunity to create something successful. Someone with some ability and belief is what we desperately need.
Relegation has changed the landscape in as much we are really starting again. As such that is an opportunity to really take the club forward.
I would hope that is the way that Mr Nagle and team are embracing the challenge we now face.
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