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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:07:42 GMT 1
We turned down more than that from Swansea did we really turn down more from Swansea.with respect who told you because I know they certainly inquired that is true but as for a fee I would be interested how you would know because town woudnt divulge it if they named a price at all. said he was not for sale is I understand
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:13:11 GMT 1
Except of course, the Prodessional Development League 2 that we were competing in, was a right earned by our Academy 2 status (that’s why we couldn’t get promoted despite winning it). Would he have the same development in our u23s if the next Phil Billing came along now who will likely end up arranging ad hoc fixtures or joining some league along with players from Halifax, Rochdale, York etc? I doubt in those circumstances that the next Phil Billing even joins us? And I m sure we will lose some of the current u18s/u23s because of the games program next season- I think theoverall standard of play at u23 level and the quality we have leaves a lot to be desired and it needs a shake up and that I think is what it will get.i know we are a young group but one or two at least are making no progress whats so ever.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:15:25 GMT 1
I thought it cost £1.25m to run the academy so over 10 years that's £12.5m. I think we got around £2m for each of those 2 so by my reckoning we're down about £8.5m during Deano's tenure. That's a lot of money in anyone's language. Maybe if he put each season ticket up by £62.50 to pay for it would you be happy with that? EPPP has run since 2012. 5 years. The cost of running the academy is £1.2m, the cost to Huddersfield Town is not £1.2m due EPPP reparations among other things. All of this means that the sale of Hunt and Smithies has covered the cost of the academy. That was my understanding-although I dont have access to the relevant info and I dont know what the true figures are-This contradicts the chairman in his Gareth Jones interview? With the EPPP funding plus the bike ride money-the actual cost to the club of running the Academy doesnt seem that great -especially in light of the money the club has received from the Premier League. Money doesnt seem to be an issue if the club are happy not to bother with a significant amount of compensation due for our contracted players in both foundation and YDP -or maybe that is just another cock up to add to the PR cock up?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:18:43 GMT 1
And I m sure we will lose some of the current u18s/u23s because of the games program next season- I think theoverall standard of play at u23 level and the quality we have leaves a lot to be desired and it needs a shake up and that I think is what it will get.i know we are a young group but one or two at least are making no progress whats so ever. There are some poor players in the 18s+23s but there are also some decent players in there-Lewis O Brien/Matty Daly/Ben Jackson/Saul Milovanovic/Ryan Schofield/Jordan Williams/Olly Dyson/Ram
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:38:44 GMT 1
I think theoverall standard of play at u23 level and the quality we have leaves a lot to be desired and it needs a shake up and that I think is what it will get.i know we are a young group but one or two at least are making no progress whats so ever. There are some poor players in the 18s+23s but there are also some decent players in there-Lewis O Brien/Matty Daly/Ben Jackson/Saul Milovanovic/Ryan Schofield/Jordan Williams/Olly Dyson/Ram I agree with the ones you have named but the overall standard is poor and maybe a couple could step up but this u 23 league is no way to bridge the gap to first team level as it stands at this moment in time. I like Williams and schoefield abut lads like booty who cant even get out on loan have in my view no chance but things could change in the next 12 months if we get more quality in from here or abroad. I know a few scouts from otherclubs and they say the same some havnt progressed one bit
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on Sept 21, 2017 13:54:54 GMT 1
We turned down more than that from Swansea did we really turn down more from Swansea.with respect who told you because I know they certainly inquired that is true but as for a fee I would be interested how you would know because town woudnt divulge it if they named a price at all. said he was not for sale is I understand They offered 10m.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 13:57:11 GMT 1
EPPP has run since 2012. 5 years. The cost of running the academy is £1.2m, the cost to Huddersfield Town is not £1.2m due EPPP reparations among other things. All of this means that the sale of Hunt and Smithies has covered the cost of the academy. Was the Academy free to run prior to EPPP? If not, your costings are wrong. Very wrong. How are they very wrong? The sale of Hunt and Smithies has more than covered the cost of a Cat. 2 academy in the previous 5 years. That is true. If you want to go back on full costings, lets go back to the 90's when the academy was set up then. Chuck in the sale of Stead, Collins, Mirfin etc which all brought in money to varying degrees. The thousands of appearances the academy graduates racked up in the 2000's etc. which saved the club money on wages. The fact is when you break down the figures, the academy costs less than we were paying James Vaughan a year a few years ago.
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Post by WaterlooTerrier on Sept 21, 2017 14:20:00 GMT 1
did we really turn down more from Swansea.with respect who told you because I know they certainly inquired that is true but as for a fee I would be interested how you would know because town woudnt divulge it if they named a price at all. said he was not for sale is I understand They offered 10m. Did they actually offer £10m though? That figure was thrown around on Twitter but never saw it confirmed anywhere. General consensus was there was interest but no actual bids
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Post by TTCMatt on Sept 21, 2017 14:42:03 GMT 1
Did they actually offer £10m though? That figure was thrown around on Twitter but never saw it confirmed anywhere. General consensus was there was interest but no actual bids Yes. I don't know how it was structured exactly but they offered a package valuing 10m. Had it confirmed from someone very close to it.
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Post by mids on Sept 21, 2017 15:11:02 GMT 1
Was the Academy free to run prior to EPPP? If not, your costings are wrong. Very wrong. How are they very wrong? The sale of Hunt and Smithies has more than covered the cost of a Cat. 2 academy in the previous 5 years. That is true. If you want to go back on full costings, lets go back to the 90's when the academy was set up then. Chuck in the sale of Stead, Collins, Mirfin etc which all brought in money to varying degrees. The thousands of appearances the academy graduates racked up in the 2000's etc. which saved the club money on wages. The fact is when you break down the figures, the academy costs less than we were paying James Vaughan a year a few years ago. That's not a fact. It's blatantly bollocks. if you're going to try and put together an argument then please try and use something resembling facts. Plus, you're clutching at straws if you say that the thousands of appearances saved the club wages? How? It might have saved transfer fees but wages needed to be paid either way. I'd also dispute that the academy players racked up anything like "thousands" of appearances.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 15:25:38 GMT 1
How are they very wrong? The sale of Hunt and Smithies has more than covered the cost of a Cat. 2 academy in the previous 5 years. That is true. If you want to go back on full costings, lets go back to the 90's when the academy was set up then. Chuck in the sale of Stead, Collins, Mirfin etc which all brought in money to varying degrees. The thousands of appearances the academy graduates racked up in the 2000's etc. which saved the club money on wages. The fact is when you break down the figures, the academy costs less than we were paying James Vaughan a year a few years ago. That's not a fact. It's blatantly bollocks. if you're going to try and put together an argument then please try and use something resembling facts. Plus, you're clutching at straws if you say that the thousands of appearances saved the club wages? How? It might have saved transfer fees but wages needed to be paid either way. I'd also dispute that the academy players racked up anything like "thousands" of appearances. Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year to run? Yes. Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year? No. These are facts. Although your head is so far up Hoyle's arse you probably can't see it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 16:57:09 GMT 1
That's not a fact. It's blatantly bollocks. if you're going to try and put together an argument then please try and use something resembling facts. Plus, you're clutching at straws if you say that the thousands of appearances saved the club wages? How? It might have saved transfer fees but wages needed to be paid either way. I'd also dispute that the academy players racked up anything like "thousands" of appearances. Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year to run? Yes. Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year? No. These are facts. Although your head is so far up Hoyle's arse you probably can't see it. Costs to run it is a secondary issue. I hate to state the blindingly obvious, but you have to focus on the purpose of the academy first. I.E. What first team players has it provided from the cancelled up to 16 age groups as first team players? Then what is the value of those players? Then what was the cost? Answers: 1) fuck all. 2) fuck all. 3) shit loads. The precise sums are immaterial under such circumstances. End of arguments! Unless you personally want to pay for it? (As in up our contributions to majority paid by supporters, then if you contributed your opinion would be valid)
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Post by jqhtfc on Sept 21, 2017 17:13:34 GMT 1
Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year to run? Yes. Does the academy cost Huddersfield Town £1.2m a year? No. These are facts. Although your head is so far up Hoyle's arse you probably can't see it. Costs to run it is a secondary issue. I hate to state the blindingly obvious, but you have to focus on the purpose of the academy first. I.E. What first team players has it provided from the cancelled up to 16 age groups as first team players? Then what is the value of those players? Then what was the cost? Answers: 1) fuck all. 2) fuck all. 3) shit loads. The precise sums are immaterial under such circumstances. End of arguments! Unless you personally want to pay for it? (As in up our contributions to majority paid by supporters, then if you contributed your opinion would be valid) Has the academy since EPPP been given enough time to judge that it's produced nothing though? You could probably say Williams and Schofield are the first to really come through the system.
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Post by COWleySHED on Sept 21, 2017 18:02:01 GMT 1
Did they actually offer £10m though? That figure was thrown around on Twitter but never saw it confirmed anywhere. General consensus was there was interest but no actual bids Yes. I don't know how it was structured exactly but they offered a package valuing 10m. Had it confirmed from someone very close to it. We turned down 8 million
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Post by shawsie on Sept 21, 2017 18:03:37 GMT 1
Costs to run it is a secondary issue. I hate to state the blindingly obvious, but you have to focus on the purpose of the academy first. I.E. What first team players has it provided from the cancelled up to 16 age groups as first team players? Then what is the value of those players? Then what was the cost? Answers: 1) fuck all. 2) fuck all. 3) shit loads. The precise sums are immaterial under such circumstances. End of arguments! Unless you personally want to pay for it? (As in up our contributions to majority paid by supporters, then if you contributed your opinion would be valid) Has the academy since EPPP been given enough time to judge that it's produced nothing though? You could probably say Williams and Schofield are the first to really come through the system. You are missing the point though.....its now less likely to bring through real talent than ever cos the cat 1 sides hoover em up for peanuts! As for williams and schofield - both are miles away from the prem league. Potential yes but neither have made it yet.....remember the likes of baldry...worthy...clarkes...mirf...........smithies. All came in with high hopes but none are or were near where we are now.
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Post by jqhtfc on Sept 21, 2017 18:17:28 GMT 1
Has the academy since EPPP been given enough time to judge that it's produced nothing though? You could probably say Williams and Schofield are the first to really come through the system. You are missing the point though.....its now less likely to bring through real talent than ever cos the cat 1 sides hoover em up for peanuts! As for williams and schofield - both are miles away from the prem league. Potential yes but neither have made it yet.....remember the likes of baldry...worthy...clarkes...mirf...........smithies. All came in with high hopes but none are or were near where we are now. Not missed the point at all I'm well aware of how shit EPPP is and how it greatly benefits the big clubs, you're also correct re Williams and Schofield it is potential but big potential like any young player they may or may not make it but at 17/18 they have time. A lot is down to the player and the family if they want to move to one of the big sides if they come sniffing they will others won't.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 21, 2017 18:17:29 GMT 1
The lady I know , her young lad, a very good prospect is signed up at Man Utd now, had photoss done. Pleased for them.
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on Sept 21, 2017 18:37:30 GMT 1
Yes. I don't know how it was structured exactly but they offered a package valuing 10m. Had it confirmed from someone very close to it. We turned down 8 million I've been told 10 but the point is there was a solid offer. Not bad for someone that cost 5k.
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on Sept 21, 2017 18:43:37 GMT 1
Has the academy since EPPP been given enough time to judge that it's produced nothing though? You could probably say Williams and Schofield are the first to really come through the system. You are missing the point though.....its now less likely to bring through real talent than ever cos the cat 1 sides hoover em up for peanuts! As for williams and schofield - both are miles away from the prem league. Potential yes but neither have made it yet.....remember the likes of baldry...worthy...clarkes...mirf...........smithies. All came in with high hopes but none are or were near where we are now. How many players have we lost to cat 1 sides for peanuts?
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Post by shawsie on Sept 21, 2017 18:44:53 GMT 1
You are missing the point though.....its now less likely to bring through real talent than ever cos the cat 1 sides hoover em up for peanuts! As for williams and schofield - both are miles away from the prem league. Potential yes but neither have made it yet.....remember the likes of baldry...worthy...clarkes...mirf...........smithies. All came in with high hopes but none are or were near where we are now. Not missed the point at all I'm well aware of how shit EPPP is and how it greatly benefits the big clubs, you're also correct re Williams and Schofield it is potential but big potential like any young player they may or may not make it but at 17/18 they have time. A lot is down to the player and the family if they want to move to one of the big sides if they come sniffing they will others won't. Lets not kid ourselves - 99 out of 100 budding superstars wouldnt stay at town...leeds....sheffields if the true big clubs - liverpool...man utd and now city and arsenal and chelsea came knocking. As such why not wait until talent has been discarded and the real scouts can tell if a 16..17 yr old can make it. Its a damn sight easier spotting it then than at 12 or 13 when puberty etc can change things in a matter of weeks.The key though is ensuring your scouts spot the talent and the club can then coach and nurture it.
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Post by shawsie on Sept 21, 2017 18:46:13 GMT 1
You are missing t21sthe point though.....its now less likely to bring through real talent than ever cos the cat 1 sides hoover em up for peanuts! As for williams and schofield - both are miles away from the prem league. Potential yes but neither have made it yet.....remember the likes of baldry...worthy...clarkes...mirf...........smithies. All came in with high hopes but none are or were near where we are now. How many players have we lost to cat 1 sides for peanuts? Dont know the exact figures but its a good few and will only get worse. By example city and utd have more scouts here than we have!!!! Look at sterling...green at everton...wisdom....izzy brown.....palmer i think was originally charlton. The list is fairly lengthy.
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TTCMatt
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Post by TTCMatt on Sept 21, 2017 19:34:43 GMT 1
How many players have we lost to cat 1 sides for peanuts? Dont know the exact figures but its a good few and will only get worse. By example city and utd have more scouts here than we have!!!! Look at sterling...green at everton...wisdom....izzy brown.....palmer i think was originally charlton. The list is fairly lengthy. Aside from u9s it's actually not. To my knowledge the club have only lost 1 registered player that they bust a gut to keep. What doesn't get reported is the other kids that have turned down the chance to go to other clubs to stay at Hudds. Jordan Williams for one. Those players you mentioned. If they're as good as them then the compensation figure goes up towards 1.5m. Hardly peanuts.
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Post by shawsie on Sept 22, 2017 1:04:30 GMT 1
Dont know the exact figures but its a good few and will only get worse. By example city and utd have more scouts here than we have!!!! Look at sterling...green at everton...wisdom....izzy brown.....palmer i think was originally charlton. The list is fairly lengthy. Aside from u9s it's actually not. To my knowledge the club have only lost 1 registered player that they bust a gut to keep. What doesn't get reported is the other kids that have turned down the chance to go to other clubs to stay at Hudds. Jordan Williams for one. Those players you mentioned. If they're as good as them then the compensation figure goes up towards 1.5m. Hardly peanuts. 1.5m when theyve made 100 prem appearances yes! How many do that? The ones i quote above are the more famous names i could think of off the top of my head. Town will continue to have representation at thd older age groups....its the really young lads where we wont. Whats the point when for a few thousand they can be bought and then discarded as many are by the big clubs every year. Its a flawed system which isnt working and more clubs will follow towns lead on this unless the whole thing is restructured properly and ALL clubs are encouraged to promote local talent.....this wont happen though because thge EPL is a global brand now and rightly in their opinion has no concern for wider football welfare.
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Post by drfootball on Sept 22, 2017 7:25:29 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but in one swipe of a pen Dean has taken us from "plucky Huddersfield " that defied the odds to nasty Huddersfield that took away the kids dreams.
We all love dean god bless him, unusually for him he seems to have misjudged this one.
Whatever you think about the decision the end result is sky , the Mail and other news outlets have turned on the club. It's not over yet , a few pictures of little johny throwing their academy kit away , teary eyed to come I'm sure.
Ok financially it may not be the best investment but I think it's cost us way more than that in negative press a lot more .
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Sept 22, 2017 7:30:16 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but in one swipe of a pen Dean has taken us from "plucky Huddersfield " that defied the odds to nasty Huddersfield that took away the kids dreams. We all love dean god bless him, unusually for him he seems to have misjudged this one. Whatever you think about the decision the end result is sky , the Mail and other news outlets have turned on the club. It's not over yet , a few pictures of little johny throwing their academy kit away , teary eyed to come I'm sure. Ok financially it may not be the best investment but I think it's cost us way more than that in negative press a lot more . Get ove it, Wagner and Deano wanted this.
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Post by drfootball on Sept 22, 2017 7:48:35 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but in one swipe of a pen Dean has taken us from "plucky Huddersfield " that defied the odds to nasty Huddersfield that took away the kids dreams. We all love dean god bless him, unusually for him he seems to have misjudged this one. Whatever you think about the decision the end result is sky , the Mail and other news outlets have turned on the club. It's not over yet , a few pictures of little johny throwing their academy kit away , teary eyed to come I'm sure. Ok financially it may not be the best investment but I think it's cost us way more than that in negative press a lot more . Get ove it, Wagner and Deano wanted this. If I see any of the 15 full time or the 30 part time staff that have lost their jobs not to mention any of the 150 children or their parents that have lost their dreams I'll be sure to pass on your sympathetic comments
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 7:56:35 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but in one swipe of a pen Dean has taken us from "plucky Huddersfield " that defied the odds to nasty Huddersfield that took away the kids dreams. We all love dean god bless him, unusually for him he seems to have misjudged this one. Whatever you think about the decision the end result is sky , the Mail and other news outlets have turned on the club. It's not over yet , a few pictures of little johny throwing their academy kit away , teary eyed to come I'm sure. Ok financially it may not be the best investment but I think it's cost us way more than that in negative press a lot more . If the journalists/kids/parents/readers can't see the true cause being Premier League EPPP it isn't DHs fault they're thick as pig s..t!
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Post by drfootball on Sept 22, 2017 8:50:48 GMT 1
I'm sorry to say this but in one swipe of a pen Dean has taken us from "plucky Huddersfield " that defied the odds to nasty Huddersfield that took away the kids dreams. We all love dean god bless him, unusually for him he seems to have misjudged this one. Whatever you think about the decision the end result is sky , the Mail and other news outlets have turned on the club. It's not over yet , a few pictures of little johny throwing their academy kit away , teary eyed to come I'm sure. Ok financially it may not be the best investment but I think it's cost us way more than that in negative press a lot more . If the journalists/kids/parents/readers can't see the true cause being Premier League EPPP it isn't DHs fault they're thick as pig s..t! I refer my right honourable friend to the answer I gave a few moments ago If I see any of the 15 full time or the 30 part time staff that have lost their jobs not to mention any of the 150 children or their parents that have lost their dreams I'll be sure to pass on your sympathetic comments
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Post by mids on Sept 22, 2017 9:25:56 GMT 1
Their dreams aren't lost, they're simply redirected elsewhere. They'll have moved on quicker than some folk on this thread have though that's for sure.
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Post by artysid on Sept 22, 2017 9:43:38 GMT 1
If the journalists/kids/parents/readers can't see the true cause being Premier League EPPP it isn't DHs fault they're thick as pig s..t! I refer my right honourable friend to the answer I gave a few moments ago If I see any of the 15 full time or the 30 part time staff that have lost their jobs not to mention any of the 150 children or their parents that have lost their dreams I'll be sure to pass on your sympathetic comments Of course these people are going to be feeling disappointed, hurt, angry and (particularly the staff) worried about the future. So yes I have some sympathy for them, but the better ones will move on, most wouldn't have made it anyway, some may be picked up by Town when they're older. But the feelings of people has never been a factors in deciding whether to restructure in other sectors, why should football be different? You need to present sound business arguments to back up your views not emotive appeals
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