Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:27:55 GMT 1
I know, but it's more or less the system that's in place at the moment, that kids go to a handful of elite academies, but aren't actually deemed good enough to play for the elite teams, so end up going to Town for their football (like Tommy Smith, Harry Bunn, Williams, etc etc)...its more or less a draft system already. And all the other clubs like Town are just operating the regional satellites of a national academy that generates players for League 1 and 2. That the national centralised academy system happens to have a Liverpool, Chelsea or Man City badge on the door, rather than am FA badge is the difference. And because of that badging, one could argue that the way they develop players isn't in the best interests of the player, or the national team. Instead we could move to a system of regional centres of excellence, which could be funded by the fees that clubs would pay when the players graduate out. Have it all run by the FA, so that we can create a national identity of football (i.e. what is the 'English style'); HEAVILY invest in coaching, training and facilities, all over the country (rather than just the South). In a short number of years we'd see a far higher standard of player coming through. David Wagner comments on Academy that it is hard to produce players and Any decision on the future of the academy is for THE CHAIRMAN AND THE CLUB AND HE IS NOT INVOLVED. Finding a solution is down to them not him.Interesting.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 14:35:38 GMT 1
And because of that badging, one could argue that the way they develop players isn't in the best interests of the player, or the national team. Instead we could move to a system of regional centres of excellence, which could be funded by the fees that clubs would pay when the players graduate out. Have it all run by the FA, so that we can create a national identity of football (i.e. what is the 'English style'); HEAVILY invest in coaching, training and facilities, all over the country (rather than just the South). In a short number of years we'd see a far higher standard of player coming through. David Wagner comments on Academy that it is hard to produce players and Any decision on the future of the academy is for THE CHAIRMAN AND THE CLUB AND HE IS NOT INVOLVED. Finding a solution is down to them not him.Interesting. Thank heavens for that, can concentrate on HIS JOB and not THE BOARDS JOB.
|
|
|
Post by upthetown on Sept 7, 2017 14:48:37 GMT 1
David Wagner comments on Academy that it is hard to produce players and Any decision on the future of the academy is for THE CHAIRMAN AND THE CLUB AND HE IS NOT INVOLVED. Finding a solution is down to them not him.Interesting. Thank heavens for that, can concentrate on HIS JOB and not THE BOARDS JOB. He wasn't involved with choice of club's official pie partner, or the away priority scheme either.
|
|
|
Post by jqhtfc on Sept 7, 2017 15:10:57 GMT 1
Will probably end up downgrading to a cat 3 and maybe a cat 4 if relegated.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 16:11:44 GMT 1
Thank heavens for that, can concentrate on HIS JOB and not THE BOARDS JOB. He wasn't involved with choice of club's official pie partner, or the away priority scheme either. Sack the board....🎵🎶🎶🎵
|
|
|
Post by BLUE&WHITE on Sept 7, 2017 16:18:47 GMT 1
If we had stayed in the championship then I can see the benefit of following Brentford's setup but I think it would be short sighted to close it now we are premier league.
Surely we would be a far more attractive proposition now?
|
|
|
Post by Mastercracker on Sept 7, 2017 16:32:38 GMT 1
If we had stayed in the championship then I can see the benefit of following Brentford's setup but I think it would be short sighted to close it now we are premier league. Surely we would be a far more attractive proposition now? Maybe, but premier league and upgrade to Cat 1 or not, two of the biggest/richest football clubs in world football will still be on our doorstep.
|
|
|
Post by York Terrier on Sept 7, 2017 19:26:00 GMT 1
It needs to close I said so a few years ago and got continually lectured by some muppet in a waistcoat leaning over telling me it cost next to nothing to run and it was a long term plan. Well 2/3 players in 10 years is a pretty poor return as far as I am concerned. Leaving this to one side even if we upgrade to cat 1 who would want their child to come to Huddersfield if you have the Manchester clubs Liverpool etc to join which leaves Huddersfield with the ones non of the top club want I believe if you carn't do it well don't do it and we in my opinion simply cannot compete at academy level Hello, I believe you could be referring to me here. If memory serves, I even started a thread setting out how much the academy costs each year as a response to you plucking a figure from the sky and doubling it. I don't wear a waistcoat, though. My opinion had somewhat changed on the matter and I was inclined to agree that persuading youngsters to join us ahead of all the other local and bigger rivals wasn't working. However, promotion and the cash boost does raise an interesting alternative option. Either way, I'm confident the decision is in good hands. You are correct it was you and it looks like a waistcoat in your photo to me,you appear to have moderated your stance on the Academy and a few other things, as I remember you being an avid fan and berating my every word on the lack of players getting into the first team and the cost of operating it. Funny how some are clever in hindsight I also seem to remember you telling me to put my own cash into the club ( which I do) if I wanted a whole raft of players to join us to have a big push for the Premier League funny how that worked out as well, me I must just keep getting lucky with my suggestions as they appear to be coming true. But as you say leave things in the safe hands of the people who know best.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 19:41:17 GMT 1
Hello, I believe you could be referring to me here. If memory serves, I even started a thread setting out how much the academy costs each year as a response to you plucking a figure from the sky and doubling it. I don't wear a waistcoat, though. My opinion had somewhat changed on the matter and I was inclined to agree that persuading youngsters to join us ahead of all the other local and bigger rivals wasn't working. However, promotion and the cash boost does raise an interesting alternative option. Either way, I'm confident the decision is in good hands. You are correct it was you and it looks like a waistcoat in your photo to me,you appear to have moderated your stance on the Academy and a few other things, as I remember you being an avid fan and berating my every word on the lack of players getting into the first team and the cost of operating it. Funny how some are clever in hindsight I also seem to remember you telling me to put my own cash into the club ( which I do) if I wanted a whole raft of players to join us to have a big push for the Premier League funny how that worked out as well, me I must just keep getting lucky with my suggestions as they appear to be coming true. But as you say leave things in the safe hands of the people who know best. Haha, not actually a photo of me, but I take your point. I actually pulled you up on your claim that it cost £4m a year to run, which was total nonsense, and set out the real cost. The savings wouldn't have made much difference at all then and would make even less so now. I think it would be a huge shame if at the time we have more cash than in the club's whole history, we take the decision to stop trying to produce our own players.
|
|
|
Post by Headless Chicken on Sept 7, 2017 19:42:54 GMT 1
Hello, I believe you could be referring to me here. If memory serves, I even started a thread setting out how much the academy costs each year as a response to you plucking a figure from the sky and doubling it. I don't wear a waistcoat, though. My opinion had somewhat changed on the matter and I was inclined to agree that persuading youngsters to join us ahead of all the other local and bigger rivals wasn't working. However, promotion and the cash boost does raise an interesting alternative option. Either way, I'm confident the decision is in good hands. You are correct it was you and it looks like a waistcoat in your photo to me,you appear to have moderated your stance on the Academy and a few other things, as I remember you being an avid fan and berating my every word on the lack of players getting into the first team and the cost of operating it. Funny how some are clever in hindsight I also seem to remember you telling me to put my own cash into the club ( which I do) if I wanted a whole raft of players to join us to have a big push for the Premier League funny how that worked out as well, me I must just keep getting lucky with my suggestions as they appear to be coming true. But as you say leave things in the safe hands of the people who know best. Well that certainly wins the award for disappearing up your own arse.
|
|
|
Post by York Terrier on Sept 7, 2017 19:49:36 GMT 1
You are correct it was you and it looks like a waistcoat in your photo to me,you appear to have moderated your stance on the Academy and a few other things, as I remember you being an avid fan and berating my every word on the lack of players getting into the first team and the cost of operating it. Funny how some are clever in hindsight I also seem to remember you telling me to put my own cash into the club ( which I do) if I wanted a whole raft of players to join us to have a big push for the Premier League funny how that worked out as well, me I must just keep getting lucky with my suggestions as they appear to be coming true. But as you say leave things in the safe hands of the people who know best. Haha, not actually a photo of me, but I take your point. I actually pulled you up on your claim that it cost £4m a year to run, which was total nonsense, and set out the real cost. The savings wouldn't have made much difference at all then and would make even less so now. I think it would be a huge shame if at the time we have more cash than in the club's whole history, we take the decision to stop trying to produce our own players. We need to be careful we might at some point see eye to eye or even agree, though I notice you ignored the other point about having a real go and bringing in lots of players to get promotion( never mind ) just one final point on the academy, just answer this honestly if your son was 9 year old and was wanted by Man United or Huddersfield which one would you choose for him? If it was me I would want the very best for my Son and despite being a total Town devotee I would send him to Man United as they probably have the best record in the World for producing home grown player who get into the first team.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 19:58:24 GMT 1
Haha, not actually a photo of me, but I take your point. I actually pulled you up on your claim that it cost £4m a year to run, which was total nonsense, and set out the real cost. The savings wouldn't have made much difference at all then and would make even less so now. I think it would be a huge shame if at the time we have more cash than in the club's whole history, we take the decision to stop trying to produce our own players. We need to be careful we might at some point see eye to eye or even agree, though I notice you ignored the other point about having a real go and bringing get in lots of players ( never mind ) just one final point on the academy, just answer this honestly if your son was 9 year old and was wanted by Man United or Huddersfield which one would you choose for him? If it was me I would want the very best for my Son and despite being a total Town devotee I would send him to Man United as they probably have the best record in the World for producing home grown player who get into the first team. I'd send him to Town! That said, I think most won't, which is what makes it hard. I seem to remember your idea was that instead of spending, say, £18m over three years, DH should put in £18m in one go. As that's not what happened at all last season, I think you're stretching it somewhat to be claiming all your suggestions keep coming true. Had you argued we should bring in an unknown and untested German and sign players from the German second tier, your self praise would be more accurate.
|
|
|
Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Sept 7, 2017 20:13:35 GMT 1
The way I see it, the biggest problem with upgrading to Category 1 is that the club is still unlikely to see any benefit where it matters (i.e. bringing young talent through to the first team) for several years to come yet. Category 1 guarantees nothing and will not be a short-term fix. However, it would be a costly, courageous and serious commitment by the club if they did decide to move to Category 1.
Given the situation the club is now in I'm a bit surprised at the timing of this review. IF Town can manage to stay in the PL, then I'd have thought that could be an important factor in helping to decide what to do next. Maybe keep the status quo for now and decide at the end of this season?
By contrast, if the club was to downgrade to Category 3, I presume they could do that fairly quickly and easily. It wouldn't be pleasant as I assume some coaches and some young lads would be let go.
From comments by Canalside Q&A guests (both Town connected and not connected) as well as comments by Sky pundits etc, it seems clear that the idea of football academies hasn't worked out as football perhaps expected or hoped they would. I suspect Town aren't the only club considering the future of their academies.
Best of luck Dean et al, it won't be an easy decision, I'm sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2017 21:43:27 GMT 1
The way I see it, the biggest problem with upgrading to Category 1 is that the club is still unlikely to see any benefit where it matters (i.e. bringing young talent through to the first team) for several years to come yet. Category 1 guarantees nothing and will not be a short-term fix. However, it would be a costly, courageous and serious commitment by the club if they did decide to move to Category 1. Given the situation the club is now in I'm a bit surprised at the timing of this review. IF Town can manage to stay in the PL, then I'd have thought that could be an important factor in helping to decide what to do next. Maybe keep the status quo for now and decide at the end of this season? By contrast, if the club was to downgrade to Category 3, I presume they could do that fairly quickly and easily. It wouldn't be pleasant as I assume some coaches and some young lads would be let go. From comments by Canalside Q&A guests (both Town connected and not connected) as well as comments by Sky pundits etc, it seems clear that the idea of football academies hasn't worked out as football perhaps expected or hoped they would. I suspect Town aren't the only club considering the future of their academies. Best of luck Dean et al, it won't be an easy decision, I'm sure. you are correct it wont be a easy decision and to be honest we havnt the facilities for cat I at this time and the expence would be massive.Whatever happens the club as realised that something as to change and they will make what they believe is in the best interests of the club and we should respect that whatever our own views are.
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Sept 7, 2017 22:57:38 GMT 1
Will the B&W foundation lottery end if the academy closes?
|
|
|
Post by Tim Nice But Dim on Sept 7, 2017 23:23:58 GMT 1
Chris Powell got slated by many on here for say "nothing was coming through the academy" and the man was right. If i had to choose between Town and Manure who i would want my lad to play for, it's a no brainer, Town all the way. It's alright wanting the best for your son!! but what does your son want, and in my eyes Manure are not the best club in this country. There is a lot to be said for playing for a smaller club at the same level instead of playing for Billy Big Bollocks, it's not all about money.
|
|
|
Post by macdaddyterrier on Sept 7, 2017 23:33:26 GMT 1
Haha, not actually a photo of me, but I take your point. I actually pulled you up on your claim that it cost £4m a year to run, which was total nonsense, and set out the real cost. The savings wouldn't have made much difference at all then and would make even less so now. I think it would be a huge shame if at the time we have more cash than in the club's whole history, we take the decision to stop trying to produce our own players. We need to be careful we might at some point see eye to eye or even agree, though I notice you ignored the other point about having a real go and bringing in lots of players to get promotion( never mind ) just one final point on the academy, just answer this honestly if your son was 9 year old and was wanted by Man United or Huddersfield which one would you choose for him? If it was me I would want the very best for my Son and despite being a total Town devotee I would send him to Man United as they probably have the best record in the World for producing home grown player who get into the first team. Is it that they're the best or is it that they have the most? I wonder how many kids Man Utd hoover up per first team player who makes it?
|
|
|
Post by richhtfc on Sept 7, 2017 23:51:44 GMT 1
To me the crux of this whole argument is exactly the same as you have to have with the idiot friend/relative you know who despite living in Huddersfield his entire life has decided to support Liverpool.
The academy will do better on attracting the youngsters based on the first teams relative success. The 'better facilities' and 'better training' thing is erroneous as I see it. We can offer something very similar relatively speaking....
If you're a kid who really, really wants to make it, you should balance the glitzy facilities and promises of riches against the vast amount of competition you're going to have at a 'massive club'
We should be extremely attractive to local kids at the moment. And I agree with the poster above that we should absolutely keep the academy. If we want to place local identity at the heart of what we do I'm not sure how we can give it up and be consistent with that message.
|
|
monkbar
Darren Bullock Terrier
[M0:5]
Posts: 954
|
Post by monkbar on Sept 8, 2017 6:23:02 GMT 1
I think we should absolutely keep the academy. As player prices get higher and higher the costs one decent player could save us/make us gets higher and higher too.
|
|
|
Post by townrwe on Sept 8, 2017 6:31:45 GMT 1
Partnering with a sports agency that arranges friendlies is surely the first step to reintroducing the reserves / b team games.
Is this part of the strategy?
|
|
|
Post by BLUE&WHITE on Sept 8, 2017 7:29:43 GMT 1
I think a lot of parents would have the intention of sendin their kids to town for the above reasons. It would probably change when the big team are offering money & incentives.
Whether you need the money or not it makes you think they're really want them!
|
|
|
Post by Convictatthemac on Sept 8, 2017 8:39:54 GMT 1
There have been some great points on here and personally I think it comes down to a package of what you can provide. How can Town be different? A huge selling point to parents is education for their kids. I've noticed that the football club has an affiliation with the university through some form of sponsorship. If you can get a local school(preferably private), the university and the football club to work together as a unit to provide a number of education and football scholarships combined, it would be very attractive to a parent. Unfortunately with sports, injuries can be the end of a career and if they have an education to fall back on, that provides cheap insurance.
I could imagine the commentators, "David Wagner is making a 76th minute substitute, it looks like he's turning to Joey Bloggs! Well, what a big week its been for the 19 year old, just finished his exams for his Law degree at Huddersfield University on Friday and here he is making his debut in the Premier League on Sunday against Manchester United. What a talented kid!"
The current hype around the club won't last forever(well you never know) so it's a great time to strike, while the local community are in a frenzy and the iron is hot. There would have to be a local school with a Town fan in charge who would love to be a part of something special like this.
I also agree that players are only going to get more expensive, the rate of that increase will out strip the cost to develop players, I'm sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 8:50:59 GMT 1
Chris Powell got slated by many on here for say "nothing was coming through the academy" and the man was right. If i had to choose between Town and Manure who i would want my lad to play for, it's a no brainer, Town all the way. It's alright wanting the best for your son!! but what does your son want, and in my eyes Manure are not the best club in this country. There is a lot to be said for playing for a smaller club at the same level instead of playing for Billy Big Bollocks, it's not all about money. But what is best for your son? If he goes to Utd for even a year, he'll get chances at other clubs if he was released. Would he at Town? The majority of top class players have played in top class academies.
|
|
|
Post by joeyjoneslocker on Sept 8, 2017 8:57:22 GMT 1
I also agree great points have been made but i think the most important point was made by Epsom. Football academies just haven't worked the way football expected. This isn't a slight on HTFC and what they are trying to do, it is a nationwide problem bar a few. I honestly think rather than clubs having their own academy football would benefit from regionalised academies, financed by the FA, where scouts attend and pick but are limited to a draft, pretty similar to how the NFL works. The smaller clubs get the first pick, the bigger clubs the last pick. That way academy players get more chance of breaking in to a team. Will never happen and there will are a lot of arguments either way, tough decisions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 9:11:50 GMT 1
Chris Powell got slated by many on here for say "nothing was coming through the academy" and the man was right. If i had to choose between Town and Manure who i would want my lad to play for, it's a no brainer, Town all the way. It's alright wanting the best for your son!! but what does your son want, and in my eyes Manure are not the best club in this country. There is a lot to be said for playing for a smaller club at the same level instead of playing for Billy Big Bollocks, it's not all about money. But what is best for your son? If he goes to Utd for even a year, he'll get chances at other clubs if he was released. Would he at Town?The majority of top class players have played in top class academies. Scouts from other clubs are in attendance at all the Town junior/U23 matches I've attended so why not? If you are good enough you'll come through whatever academy you're in.
|
|
|
Post by bluesandtwos on Sept 8, 2017 9:22:12 GMT 1
Interesting article. Kind of applies to Joe Lolley and perhaps shows how hard it is to break into teams in the top two divisions - Jamie Vardy V9 Academy
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 9:48:28 GMT 1
Scouts attend most of towns academy games from u10 upwards to 23s. As for a previous post town have many scouts all over the country plenty in Manchester, but will kids want to travel ? All clubs get a gem of a player every once in a while, our last top player was Alex Smithies soon to be followed by Jordan Williams and Ryan Schofield Town will benefit from them even if they leave out of contract. Its a matter of getting the best of what you have.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 9:58:00 GMT 1
There have been some great points on here and personally I think it comes down to a package of what you can provide. How can Town be different? A huge selling point to parents is education for their kids. I've noticed that the football club has an affiliation with the university through some form of sponsorship. If you can get a local school(preferably private), the university and the football club to work together as a unit to provide a number of education and football scholarships combined, it would be very attractive to a parent. Unfortunately with sports, injuries can be the end of a career and if they have an education to fall back on, that provides cheap insurance. I could imagine the commentators, "David Wagner is making a 76th minute substitute, it looks like he's turning to Joey Bloggs! Well, what a big week its been for the 19 year old, just finished his exams for his Law degree at Huddersfield University on Friday and here he is making his debut in the Premier League on Sunday against Manchester United. What a talented kid!" The current hype around the club won't last forever(well you never know) so it's a great time to strike, while the local community are in a frenzy and the iron is hot. There would have to be a local school with a Town fan in charge who would love to be a part of something special like this. I also agree that players are only going to get more expensive, the rate of that increase will out strip the cost to develop players, I'm sure. you make a very good overall point but the problem is we are not developing enough players.You can argue is that down to lack of talent; quality of the coaching our scouting system it probably is a combination of all these things that is why the club is doing a full review before making what will be a difficult decision but one I am sure they will not shirk in doing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 10:07:23 GMT 1
Scouts attend most of towns academy games from u10 upwards to 23s. As for a previous post town have many scouts all over the country plenty in Manchester, but will kids want to travel ? All clubs get a gem of a player every once in a while, our last top player was Alex Smithies soon to be followed by Jordan Williams and Ryan Schofield Town will benefit from them even if they leave out of contract. Its a matter of getting the best of what you have. There are four greater manchester based lads in the new intake of scholars.Manchester lads will travel for the right opportunity.
|
|
irverino
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by irverino on Sept 8, 2017 10:52:25 GMT 1
Will the B&W foundation lottery end if the academy closes? I think it should be scrapped, it served its 'original purpose' & now seems to be used to gain away priority, we would have swapped to TOT, but like 'most' on here thought it was a bad idea which would/should of been stopped. Does a Premier League club need £104 off a couple of thousand fans to keep there academy afloat? I think not!
|
|