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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 12:45:02 GMT 1
Another failure today after an abject performance marshalling the troops in the field yesterday. I think he has put a lot of pressure on himself given his stance on KP and it has completely encompassed him. seems a good bloke, clearly a gifted batsman but stuck in a spiral of increasing pressure and decreasing form. I think it is time he stride down.
Clearly effecting the team, Bell has averaged 28 in the past 12 months against a career average of 45 - probably a result of facing the new ball.
No obvious replacement as few players look like they have cemented their place. Jimmy, Broad and Bell look the only permanent inclusions. Not sure if Bell has ever skippered Warwickshire but he'd get my nod.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 18, 2014 12:55:56 GMT 1
KP is a prick. Cook was right to stand his ground about that tool. His captaincy at Trent Brridge was fine, but his performance at crease has been poor. Send himback to Essex for a few weeks, let him knock in a few centuries at that level to regain confidennce, give Bell the captaincy temporarily.
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Jul 18, 2014 13:01:15 GMT 1
Let him play without being captain. Worked wonders for Botham.
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Post by jasrick on Jul 18, 2014 13:04:10 GMT 1
Broad has to be captain for me.
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Post by Moooooy on Jul 18, 2014 13:55:42 GMT 1
He shouldn't be captain IMO, the amount of times I have been bewildered by his field settings and his lack of imagination he is always reactive and never proactive. The worst part of it all is that it has completely destroyed his batting so he offers very little to the England team and hasn't for some time. He must go back to Essex re find his batting form and come back in as just a batsman.
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Post by huddersviking on Jul 18, 2014 13:59:40 GMT 1
KP is a prick. Cook was right to stand his ground about that tool. His captaincy at Trent Brridge was fine, but his performance at crease has been poor. Send himback to Essex for a few weeks, let him knock in a few centuries at that level to regain confidennce, give Bell the captaincy temporarily. Bell wont be captain! If you listen to anyone that has ever played with Bell they all say how quiet he is. Never gets involved with any of the team meetings and just keeps himself to himself. Ideally the ECB would like Prior to be captain but with big question marks over his own place in the side I don't know if they would make him stand in skipper. But I doubt they would bring in a new opener and keeper in the same game so I suspect that prior will be stand in skipper if the ECB send Cook back to Essex to get some runs under his belt. Ideally I think the ECB are lining up Root as next captain but its prob too early still to give him the role. Broad is seen as a hot head and I doubt they would want him in charge. Would not be surprised to see Root go back to opening and Morgan to come in lower down the order.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jul 18, 2014 14:13:23 GMT 1
Nice lad but undoubtably the worst captain England have had in many a long year. He should have been tearing in to Broard and Anderson for their offline bowling yesterday. Can't see Bell, Broard or Anderson being up to it either. Possibly Broard but as some of his bowling is baffling I'm sure his captaincy would be as well, but maybe he is feisty enough to sort it out.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 14:26:10 GMT 1
Should have been relieved of the job post Australia.
The ECB dragging their heels is making this detrimental for the development of the team and Cook as a player.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 18, 2014 14:51:01 GMT 1
KP is a prick. Cook was right to stand his ground about that tool. His captaincy at Trent Brridge was fine, but his performance at crease has been poor. Send himback to Essex for a few weeks, let him knock in a few centuries at that level to regain confidennce, give Bell the captaincy temporarily. I thought it was awful. Everything about not losing rather than trying to win. The sooner they change captains the better it will be for england and cook the player.
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Post by stevvy on Jul 18, 2014 15:02:44 GMT 1
To be honest if he wasn't the captain you'd think he'd currently be playing county cricket to try to get a bit of form. Unfortunately with 5 tests in 6 weeks, they may see it as quite awkward to change captain mid series due to poor form, plus possibly making him think "bugger, been dropped as test captain mid series and told to go get some form at county level, feel like a right miserable git now" and so impact him negatively as far as the mental aspect goes. To be honest though, quite a few of them need to find a bit of form.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 15:54:54 GMT 1
KP is a prick. Cook was right to stand his ground about that tool. His captaincy at Trent Brridge was fine, but his performance at crease has been poor. Send himback to Essex for a few weeks, let him knock in a few centuries at that level to regain confidennce, give Bell the captaincy temporarily. Bell wont be captain! If you listen to anyone that has ever played with Bell they all say how quiet he is. Never gets involved with any of the team meetings and just keeps himself to himself. Ideally the ECB would like Prior to be captain but with big question marks over his own place in the side I don't know if they would make him stand in skipper. But I doubt they would bring in a new opener and keeper in the same game so I suspect that prior will be stand in skipper if the ECB send Cook back to Essex to get some runs under his belt. Ideally I think the ECB are lining up Root as next captain but its prob too early still to give him the role. Broad is seen as a hot head and I doubt they would want him in charge. Would not be surprised to see Root go back to opening and Morgan to come in lower down the order. When Bell plays for Warwickshire he captains and very well at that so not sure what your basing that on? Morgan is not a test standard player, he's technically not good enough on and outside off stump. He's a brilliant one day player but at test level he's not good enough. Can blame Cook all day long about yesterday but the bowlers fucked it up, didn't bowl to there fields just like at headingley. They had 4 or 5 slips at times. Too wide and too short. A captain shouldn't need to tell two blokes who have about 1000 international wickets between them to bowl at the bloody stumps. The stats for yesterday said england bowled about 30 balls on the stumps in 90 overs! 30 FFS. That's not Cook, that's common sense.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 18, 2014 16:35:42 GMT 1
At the risk of stating the obvious, the pitch for this test will reward consistent line and length. Simple.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 16:43:31 GMT 1
At the risk of stating the obvious, the pitch for this test will reward consistent line and length. Simple. Exactly. Yet we had 3 on the leg boundary yesterday trying to bounce out their number 10. Such tactics are from the same school of panic and despair as when football managers ram square pegs in round holes. The end is definitely nigh. Brilliant from Ballance again though.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 18, 2014 16:49:19 GMT 1
GB is turning into our steady eady...reminds me of Graham Thorpe in that when the brown stuff hits the whirly cool air thing, he comes good.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jul 18, 2014 18:09:55 GMT 1
Bell wont be captain! If you listen to anyone that has ever played with Bell they all say how quiet he is. Never gets involved with any of the team meetings and just keeps himself to himself. Ideally the ECB would like Prior to be captain but with big question marks over his own place in the side I don't know if they would make him stand in skipper. But I doubt they would bring in a new opener and keeper in the same game so I suspect that prior will be stand in skipper if the ECB send Cook back to Essex to get some runs under his belt. Ideally I think the ECB are lining up Root as next captain but its prob too early still to give him the role. Broad is seen as a hot head and I doubt they would want him in charge. Would not be surprised to see Root go back to opening and Morgan to come in lower down the order. When Bell plays for Warwickshire he captains and very well at that so not sure what your basing that on? Morgan is not a test standard player, he's technically not good enough on and outside off stump. He's a brilliant one day player but at test level he's not good enough. Can blame Cook all day long about yesterday but the bowlers fucked it up, didn't bowl to there fields just like at headingley. They had 4 or 5 slips at times. Too wide and too short. A captain shouldn't need to tell two blokes who have about 1000 international wickets between them to bowl at the bloody stumps. The stats for yesterday said england bowled about 30 balls on the stumps in 90 overs! 30 FFS. That's not Cook, that's common sense. You are of course right that Cook can't do the bowling for them - what he could have done was at least pull one of them out of the firing line after a couple of overs and get Stokes on who was bowling decently. I'm afraid though that Cook has been woeful at any sort of decision making.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 18:12:19 GMT 1
why not move down the order for a few games?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 18:19:51 GMT 1
When Bell plays for Warwickshire he captains and very well at that so not sure what your basing that on? Morgan is not a test standard player, he's technically not good enough on and outside off stump. He's a brilliant one day player but at test level he's not good enough. Can blame Cook all day long about yesterday but the bowlers fucked it up, didn't bowl to there fields just like at headingley. They had 4 or 5 slips at times. Too wide and too short. A captain shouldn't need to tell two blokes who have about 1000 international wickets between them to bowl at the bloody stumps. The stats for yesterday said england bowled about 30 balls on the stumps in 90 overs! 30 FFS. That's not Cook, that's common sense. You are of course right that Cook can't do the bowling for them - what he could have done was at least pull one of them out of the firing line after a couple of overs and get Stokes on who was bowling decently. I'm afraid though that Cook has been woeful at any sort of decision making. I'd counter that arguement slightly goodshot and say that his captaincy worked fine in India and he was a hero as captain and bat. I think we all have short memories and need to remember that chop and change doesn't work.
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Post by impact on Jul 18, 2014 18:45:49 GMT 1
Problem is we don't really have a captain ready to replace him. Bell is the only option but only short term. Broad should be nowhere near captaincy, he's more clueless than Cook.
I feel sory for him in some ways. He had to distance himself from KP to satisfy the ECB and in doing so turned a lot of people away from him. However, he simply isn't a captain.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2014 19:53:45 GMT 1
He's not helped by Moores, who has neither the experience or nous at this level. One Championship and one relegation with Lancs. Under Fletcher and the earlier days of Flower we had plans for every batsman. Bowling lines, field placings and tactics all set and ready to go on the field. Now it is purely reactionary. We play like we have never seen a batsman before and have no idea of their weaknesses. With all the backroom staff Cook is somewhat left to muddle through on the pitch whilst not seemingly having the 'feel' for the game that the great captains like Brearley had.
Very difficult to see us moving on very far with the 2 of them running things.
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Post by huddersviking on Jul 19, 2014 11:47:46 GMT 1
Bell wont be captain! If you listen to anyone that has ever played with Bell they all say how quiet he is. Never gets involved with any of the team meetings and just keeps himself to himself. Ideally the ECB would like Prior to be captain but with big question marks over his own place in the side I don't know if they would make him stand in skipper. But I doubt they would bring in a new opener and keeper in the same game so I suspect that prior will be stand in skipper if the ECB send Cook back to Essex to get some runs under his belt. Ideally I think the ECB are lining up Root as next captain but its prob too early still to give him the role. Broad is seen as a hot head and I doubt they would want him in charge. Would not be surprised to see Root go back to opening and Morgan to come in lower down the order. When Bell plays for Warwickshire he captains and very well at that so not sure what your basing that on? Morgan is not a test standard player, he's technically not good enough on and outside off stump. He's a brilliant one day player but at test level he's not good enough. Can blame Cook all day long about yesterday but the bowlers fucked it up, didn't bowl to there fields just like at headingley. They had 4 or 5 slips at times. Too wide and too short. A captain shouldn't need to tell two blokes who have about 1000 international wickets between them to bowl at the bloody stumps. The stats for yesterday said england bowled about 30 balls on the stumps in 90 overs! 30 FFS. That's not Cook, that's common sense. "When Bell plays for Warwickshire he captains" no he does not, Jim Troughton does and before that it was Ian Westwood news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/counties/warwickshire/9216202.stm . I believe Bell might have been stand in captain for a final a few years back that was live on sky (which they lost).
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jul 19, 2014 13:58:04 GMT 1
You are of course right that Cook can't do the bowling for them - what he could have done was at least pull one of them out of the firing line after a couple of overs and get Stokes on who was bowling decently. I'm afraid though that Cook has been woeful at any sort of decision making. I'd counter that arguement slightly goodshot and say that his captaincy worked fine in India and he was a hero as captain and bat. I think we all have short memories and need to remember that chop and change doesn't work. It's certainly gone down the pan since that series. Not trying to discredit Cooks captaincy role in that series but as far as I recall they mucked up the selection policy in the first match but eventually got it right. They made a good point on the telly re Tendulkar was in a similar position as captain of India. Best player but didn't really have any leadership qualities. As soon as he packed in the captaincy he had an excellent next 10 years concentrating on his batting and Ganguly emerged as a decent captain.
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Post by amoeba on Jul 19, 2014 14:05:24 GMT 1
I like that Cook n Moores have brought back bodyline to tailenders only about 90 years behind the times
Sent from my HTC One S using proboards
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2014 14:11:01 GMT 1
Bell and robson should open next innings
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 14:15:55 GMT 1
England won the toss in a situation where that should have provided a match-defining advantage. They are playing against an India team who have not won a Test away from home since June 2011; a team of which only two had played a Test in England before this series; a team which has only won one Test at Lord's; a modest team in a rebuilding phase of its own. If England cannot win in such circumstances, it is hard to envisage any in which they can.
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Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Jul 21, 2014 14:52:30 GMT 1
Absolute shambles. Sorry Cookie, but it's time to hand in the captaincy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 15:10:22 GMT 1
Its really sad to watch the end of the careers of some "great" English cricketers.
Cook - Even when they move him aside, can he ever regain form to get back in the team? he is 29 and realistically needs at least the rest of this summer with his county.
His post match speach was just a joke... You played shit, and lost because of it, He has totally gone, mentally he is gone, doesnt know what he is saying.... someone needs to put him out of his misery, death by 1000 cuts.
Robson - Scored runs, technique is horrible,long term he will get found out. Prior - Done, body has gone, eyes are going. Bell- Probably the only salvageable player whos out of form Anderson - Sorry pal, your only in because you USED to be able to bowl quick, full swinging deliveries. Lost at least a yard of pace, on the decline.... quickly. Stokes... - absolute joke character, No doubt he will one day be good enough, but at the moment, he isnt consistent enough as either a batter or bowler, send him back to his county. Plunkett - Done nothing wrong, but maybe its a bit late for him to be part of the re-building process.
Ballance, root, ali, broad are the only players currently showing any kind of promise and are the only names I would write in pen for Sundays game.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 21, 2014 15:15:27 GMT 1
Agree with most of your post, Lopez, ecept for the Jimmy Anderson assessment. He gets wickets. It's that simple.
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Post by jjamez on Jul 21, 2014 15:29:59 GMT 1
Theres been an amazing amount of test cricketers that have had a wierd technique and made it. I think robson could make a test cricketer. Cook should step back from captaincy, to me root should get it and before anyone says hes too young, smith and ponting weren't old when they got the role and they didn't do bad. Prior is done for, buttler in, thought they said new era? As for stokes, he needs to be back at durham and getting runs and wickets jordan or woakes to play, maybe a spinner but I really dont rate kerrigan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2014 15:29:59 GMT 1
Agree with most of your post, Lopez, ecept for the Jimmy Anderson assessment. He gets wickets. It's that simple. You could keep him in, but he definitely on the slide, He was very poor in Aus, he has been average this summer, he's 32 and only going in one direction. The bowlers let the team down in the first innings, its not the first time. Who's going to take over from cook? I see root as the future captain, Graham smith was v.young when SA appointed him, or maybe broad in the shorter term, but bowlers don't make good captains.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Jul 21, 2014 15:34:31 GMT 1
I'd be happy to stick with Stokes and Plunket as well as Root, Balance, Bell, Ali and Cook (not as Captain). Afraid Broad and Anderson think they are a bit better than they are at the moment and just don't have the gumption to bowl line and length any more. If they don't have a strong captain on field to point out the errors of their ways - they need to hang up their boots. Most Saturday league medium pacers would have been disappointed not to have taken 5 - 37 on Thursday at Lords.
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